Final Fantasy XVI - General News Thread

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SonOfEtro

Warrior of Light
May 2, 2016
1,036
1,192
You know what I want Yoko Taro to direct Final Fantasy XVII it would be interesting to see what happens.
He'd probably make all the cast insane, kill off half of them before the ending, make the crystal a twisted control device that's been guiding the whole thing like a stage production, create multiple endings based on arbitrary choices made by the player, and continue his theme of the effect and feeling of killing -- Fun Fact, that theme and its use in Drakengard was actually inspired by those typical RPGs where the hero can get away with brutal things in battle or even killing others while still getting his girl.

And since things have moved on a little, here's my list for XVI -

Set during either late Medieval or post-industrial-pre-WWI era. A situation vaguely similar to XII with two rival powers in the midst of a Cold War, and innocents getting caught in the middle - possibly this time over natural crystal resources.
Crystal in this world retain memories of past experiences, and are key to both the plot and to the use of Jobs, tying the story and gameplay together.
Has female lead protagonist raised outside the system of civilization on either side, so she can offer a disinterested and relatively unbiased POV for players.
Navigation: a combination of the encounter-free overworld navigable on foot, by Chocobo or using airship/boat, while to-scale environments allow players to see and avoid characters representing enemy groups as they appear on-screen at all times. Dungeon environments chockablock with both puzzles and enemies, and varying from subterranean mysteries to airy platform-based head-stretchers.
Balance of male and female party members. No more than eight so the game's story doesn't get swamped. Also not only humans, but a multi-race cast.
Battle system pseudo turn-based affair ala Shadow Hearts or the latest Persona. Make timing and striking enemy weaknesses actually mean something this time, like granting bonuses, speeding ATB refill or immobilizing enemy for one turn depending on which turn-based variation is chosen. Also depending on a combination of items and weapons and assigned jobs can grant a "Player Advantage" in battle seperate from which lands the first strike to trigger battle. Limit breaks are in, but rather than just being very powerful attacks, it varies from job to job and character to character (a Monk-esque brawler might get a furious attack, while a White Mage could grant temporary immortality, while again a different job might be granted an instant kill on their chosen target sans main story bosses). As this is in danger of unbalancing the flow of gameplay, filling Limit Break gauge is slow and carries its own risks, although it is carried over from battle to battle, so the battle system relies more on skill and knowledge over just beefing your way through.
Leveling through EXP increases characters' health, MP and character-specific passive buss. Also earned are points which are used in the skill tree system.
Skill trees are a streamlined version of the XV Astral Grid. Each node and node cluster unlocks Job/Character specific attributes which react to each other in different ways depending which character is using which Job. Some are user-adjustable, but most have pre-set effects.
Make weapon affinity element-based rather than job based, meaning a mix and match approach to jobs. The job itself has its own passive skills, but weapons change up the move set and attack speed.
Summons (evoked from the memories of the crystals) are handled similarly to FF10, being summoned in and taking the place of a party member in battle - they can only linger for a set number of turns and need a rest period of several battles before they can be summoned again, but they grant buffs to the party and deal devastating attacks, including their limit-break like signature attacks.
 
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Likes: Tornak
Why should the Crystarium make a comeback? It's nothing but a nuisance and a cosmetic overlay, adding nothing to the gameplay. As part of the job system it could work if they pull it off properly (i.e. make clear what decision affects what aspect of character building).

But the character leveling system should be "get EXP, gain a Level, have better stats", which is ingrained into RPG design since the heyday of D&D, and it's there for good reason - it's immanently rewarding, doesn't require tutorialization (or, in XIII-2's case, a spreadsheet for optimization) and doesn't pull the brakes of the overall flow of the gameplay when the player has to exit in order to handle it.
 

SonOfEtro

Warrior of Light
May 2, 2016
1,036
1,192
Why should the Crystarium make a comeback? It's nothing but a nuisance and a cosmetic overlay, adding nothing to the gameplay. As part of the job system it could work if they pull it off properly (i.e. make clear what decision affects what aspect of character building).

But the character leveling system should be "get EXP, gain a Level, have better stats", which is ingrained into RPG design since the heyday of D&D, and it's there for good reason - it's immanently rewarding, doesn't require tutorialization (or, in XIII-2's case, a spreadsheet for optimization) and doesn't pull the brakes of the overall flow of the gameplay when the player has to exit in order to handle it.
I understand your position. Thinking it over, I've adjusted my wishlist. And I realised that I mislabelled the skill tree as levelling. Also adjusted.
 

AveryChu

Balamb Garden Freshman
Feb 22, 2017
17
10
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Agni's Philosophy could be interesting, although I am feeling a more "classic" medieval take for XVI.

I prefer ARPGs, but turn based would be completely fine.

However, I would want the game to be scaled back in size from FFXV, and to be fairly linear with branching paths and some hidden areas to explore (in order to address the "hallway simulator" criticisms). I want the story to be the #1 focus of the game unlike XV where that clearly wasn't the case.
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,773
2,595
I disagree.

I feel that large scale areas segmented into zones ala Xenoblade would be a better fit, otherwise they'd learn nothing by scaling back to fairly linear design. FFX was mildly linear as is and that didn't stop people from criticizing that element compared to previous FFs (lack of explorable overworld map, playable airship, etc). FFXV's problem was less of the lack of focus in story, but more in how it faltered on the storytelling in general.
 

AveryChu

Balamb Garden Freshman
Feb 22, 2017
17
10
25
I disagree.

I feel that large scale areas segmented into zones ala Xenoblade would be a better fit, otherwise they'd learn nothing by scaling back to fairly linear design. FFX was mildly linear as is and that didn't stop people from criticizing that element compared to previous FFs (lack of explorable overworld map, playable airship, etc). FFXV's problem was less of the lack of focus in story, but more in how it faltered on the storytelling in general.
I mean, I haven't really seen anyone criticizing FFX for its linearity, whereas FFXIII is infamous for doing the exact same thing. What I was hoping for is more along the lines of a KH game or FFXIII-2 (Various set pieces, you must go through with room for side quests, etc).

As for FFXV, I pretty much agree that its storytelling faltered, and I don't think open world necessarily equates to a "bad story", but it really seems like much more time and resources were spent on the open world instead of fleshing out the story, something that could have been avoided if some of that open world content and was cut.
 

T.O.T

Blitzball Champion
Feb 2, 2017
533
540
I mean, I haven't really seen anyone criticizing FFX for its linearity, whereas FFXIII is infamous for doing the exact same thing.
That's because in one situation the cast of characters aren't exiled from the life they have come to know. It makes a big difference on interaction opportunities.
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,773
2,595
X's linear criticism isn't as widespread as XIII's due to the latter at least allowing you to backtrack areas, towns, mini games, etc (great narrative also helped). XIII cranked it up to eleven, to the point where its exploration amounted to literal A to B hallway simulator while axing the elements i listed for X.

Prioritization could be a reason, but i feel cutting some the open world aspect is the wrong way to go at it. I'd rather they just learn from their mistakes with went wrong on the narrative and improve the foundation from XV onwards, so that they can truly have a balance of wide freedom and story-driven experience.
 
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AveryChu

Balamb Garden Freshman
Feb 22, 2017
17
10
25
I would pretty much agree with the problems with XIII's linearity, and I absolutely despise the fact backtracking to areas is horrible, although the open areas present are much larger and content filled then what I've found in X. Unfortunately with XIII the narrative they choose limited elements such as towns, which I certainly don't like. I don't see why lore elements couldn't be reworked to survivors living on pulse with towns and etc.
 
Likes: Nova
Agni's Philosophy could be interesting, although I am feeling a more "classic" medieval take for XVI.
I think if they ever want to do a Sci-Fi-esque FF, they should go the same route Tides of Numenéra did and embrace Clarke's Third Law. Make it seem like a high-concept Fantasy game, but peel back the layers and reveal it to be supremely advanced science instead.
 

SonOfEtro

Warrior of Light
May 2, 2016
1,036
1,192
I think if they ever want to do a Sci-Fi-esque FF, they should go the same route Tides of Numenéra did and embrace Clarke's Third Law. Make it seem like a high-concept Fantasy game, but peel back the layers and reveal it to be supremely advanced science instead.
Hmm, never much of a fan of that Third Law (it's used too often as a get-out clause for writers), but it can work when used right.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
794
191
26
Unknown, Unknown
If Agni's Philosophy is going to be FFXVI, please don't try to shoehorn it on the PS4, it was running it systems the PS4 couldn't even dream of being as powerful, they should wait for the PlayStation 5 hopefully what's in the PlayStation 5 can even compare to the i7-3770k, 16GB of RAM, and GTX 680. The next demo was running on 4 NVIDIA GeForce GTX TITAN X Mawell GPUs, i7-5960X, and 64GB of DDR4 RAM, the PS4 Pro can't even scratch that level of computational power. FFXV was clearly having troubles running on the PS4, I'd rather they leave Agni's Philosophy/possible FFXVI to PlayStation 5
 
You ARE aware that AP was just a techdemo? Techdemos always look good, but they run in a controlled environment and once they are unleashed onto a real-time environment, they tend to look "worse".

Tbh, I DGAF about the graphical fidelity of games though. A game can look like arse and I'd promote it in the know that it has good systems and content. I can't interact with graphics. I can't form an emotional connection with graphics. I would NOT mind if FF XVI looked like a last gen game if it's content was worth it (speaking hyperbolically).
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
794
191
26
Unknown, Unknown
You ARE aware that AP was just a techdemo? Techdemos always look good, but they run in a controlled environment and once they are unleashed onto a real-time environment, they tend to look "worse".

Tbh, I DGAF about the graphical fidelity of games though. A game can look like arse and I'd promote it in the know that it has good systems and content. I can't interact with graphics. I can't form an emotional connection with graphics. I would NOT mind if FF XVI looked like a last gen game if it's content was worth it (speaking hyperbolically).
It's not just graphics you will also have to tone down how big the world is or can be, AI complexity, the amount of enemies you have on screen, there are also frame rate issues to deal with, you also will have to tone down boss fights as well see the Leviathan fight, with better specs, it can mean better boss fights, with bigger scale. Specs aren't just for graphics you know?

Yes I'm aware AP is a tech demo, but some people are thinking with it's popularity Square might use it for Final Fantasy XVI.
 
Specs aren't just for graphics you know?
I am well aware of that. But, it's what a lot of people tend to push to the forefront when the talk about specs comes up. World size is an equally overrated factor - yes, you CAN make everything big and huge and drop a line like "our game has this many square miles", which is an impressive number in marketing, but doesn't answer The Big Question, which always is, "how will this make our game more fun/engaging?". AI and frame rate actually factor into that.

Yes I'm aware AP is a tech demo, but some people are thinking with it's popularity Square might use it for Final Fantasy XVI.
And its popularity continues to baffle me. Yes, it looks impressive, but at the same time it's just an elaborate setpiece, not a full story or even game. Making a game just so they can show off that one setpiece moment would be a huge disappointment for everyone.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
794
191
26
Unknown, Unknown
I am well aware of that. But, it's what a lot of people tend to push to the forefront when the talk about specs comes up. World size is an equally overrated factor - yes, you CAN make everything big and huge and drop a line like "our game has this many square miles", which is an impressive number in marketing, but doesn't answer The Big Question, which always is, "how will this make our game more fun/engaging?".
With the better specs, you can have fun and engaging games with more to do, and with better gameplay
 

AveryChu

Balamb Garden Freshman
Feb 22, 2017
17
10
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Lightning Returns is last gen and it still looks better than a lot of current triple A games. I don't believe cutting edge technology is required for an FF, although unfortunately Square likely sees otherwise.
 
Likes: coffee-san

coffee-san

Sphere Hunter
Mar 18, 2015
245
120
Lightning Returns is last gen and it still looks better than a lot of current triple A games. I don't believe cutting edge technology is required for an FF, although unfortunately Square likely sees otherwise.
All style, no substance seems to be the new trend with games in general these days. It's really unfortunate.