Doctor Who - 50 years, 798 episodes & 2 hearts

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Aether

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#41
Well technically they're not re-writing the history of the Timelords per se....the previous doctors (being the new 9,10,11 doctors) will still believe that Gallifrey wass destroyed because of timey wimey stuff. Means now the 12th doctor goes off on his own divergant time stream where Gallifrey is merely lost, not destroyed.
 

APZonerunner

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#42
It's a mental piece of television. I wonder if we'll actually see fruits from the Gallifrey thing for years, though - I can see them just leaving it hanging entirely, letting it sit as it is where it is for a decade or more. The point is that for the first 50 years of the show he was running from Gallifrey (later on, running from the memory of it) and now he's running back - but that could last a decade or more, with detours!
 

Tsukiyomi

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Sep 26, 2013
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#43
Was it ever figured out if the "War Doctor" counted as one of his regenerations? At the end of the special, he started regenerating without a single injury, which makes me think it was a "temporary" regeneration, and didn't count.
 

APZonerunner

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#44
The quote he uses - "Wearing a bit thin" - is exactly what the first Doctor says before he regenerates. Basically he goes of old age. He's still dying, so it's still the same.

It's not been seen in New Who, but regeneration can just be triggered in a voluntary fashion if you want a change of face or whatever. One of the Doctor's Time Lord companions did it, in fact.

He's either got one left now, or he has used them all, depending on if you think the 10.5 half-human one counts.
 

Aether

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#45
I thought at one point around the 5 doctors he got another 3 or so regenerations? And technically they can write around the fact that Rvier Song gave him all her regenerations to save him from the venom in her lipstick...he won't be going any where soon
 
#46
I thought at one point around the 5 doctors he got another 3 or so regenerations? And technically they can write around the fact that Rvier Song gave him all her regenerations to save him from the venom in her lipstick...he won't be going any where soon
I've been clinging to this theory also, but then I remembered that Eleven healed River's wrist with regeneration energy in Angels Take Manhattan. They'll work around it somehow, though--especially considering that, in the brief scene with Capaldi in the 50th, they said "all 13" of the Doctors--meaning Capaldi was the Thirteenth and final. The show won't end up with him. I've read some theories that he'll be granted additional regenerations when he finds Gallifrey, as a reward for ending the Time War.
 

APZonerunner

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#47
I've been clinging to this theory also, but then I remembered that Eleven healed River's wrist with regeneration energy in Angels Take Manhattan. They'll work around it somehow, though--especially considering that, in the brief scene with Capaldi in the 50th, they said "all 13" of the Doctors--meaning Capaldi was the Thirteenth and final. The show won't end up with him. I've read some theories that he'll be granted additional regenerations when he finds Gallifrey, as a reward for ending the Time War.
Moffat, the lead writer, has been going around in the last week saying that the meta-crisis Tenth Doctor (the handy hand) 'counts' as a use of regeneration energy, and so he has no full regenerations left. So... we're going to get our answer at Christmas, as he obviously doesn't die, we know, he turns into Capaldi!
 
#48
Moffat, the lead writer, has been going around in the last week saying that the meta-crisis Tenth Doctor (the handy hand) 'counts' as a use of regeneration energy, and so he has no full regenerations left. So... we're going to get our answer at Christmas, as he obviously doesn't die, we know, he turns into Capaldi!
Right! I did read that in an article about the Christmas special, but it wasn't from a particularly reputable news source so I didn't want to trust it completely. I do think it's inevitable that they confront it soon. They also have not addressed The Valeyard at all, which I am hoping will also come up.
 

APZonerunner

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#49
Right! I did read that in an article about the Christmas special, but it wasn't from a particularly reputable news source so I didn't want to trust it completely. I do think it's inevitable that they confront it soon. They also have not addressed The Valeyard at all, which I am hoping will also come up.
I don't think they will address the Valeyard directly - it's such an old plot point at this point, and most of the general public don't believe it. However, you could argue the course of the war and him losing in Trial of a Time Lord just meant history changed and he manifested in a different way. Since the meta-crisis Doc is now being counted as a regeneration, it's interesting - as the Valeyard was meant to come into existence between his penultimate and last incarnations, which is now Tennant & Smith's Doctor. And who comes between them? The meta-crisis Doctor, who just so happens to commit genocide. So -- he's the Valeyard. There. Done. Loose end tied away. ;)
 

APZonerunner

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#51
Who is the valeyard and why is the Meta Crisis 10th doctor supposed thought to be him?
Best just to quote a Who wiki here:
The Valeyard was, according to the Master, "an amalgamation of the darker side of the Doctor's nature". (TV: The Ultimate Foe) The Great Intelligence also stated the Valeyard would be one of the Doctor's future names. (TV: The Name of the Doctor)

He sought to take the Sixth Doctor's seven remaining regenerations and have them for himself, eliminating his "other self" to be free of his influence, as well as murdering the Time Lords present at the trial. He was stopped by the Doctor, but escaped being captured. (TV: The Ultimate Foe)​

Basically he's a manifestation of the Doctor's dark side. He's a bit crap, though, and is mostly best ignored.
 

Nevina

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#54
Whoops, I probably should've clarified what I meant on generation. I meant the.. er, whatever came before the reboot! I started with Rose and short-haired-leather-coat-doc, marathoned the reboot at the constant urgings of a friend. The very first ep I saw kinda turned me off (cheesy plastic takeover thing? Meh) and I dropped it for a while, then tried the second ep due to continually hearing all the DW praise. Second ep is what hooked me due to the premise of that ep. But it seems that all the deeper doctor-specific lore occurred in the pre-reboot era.

On an unrelated note, I hope to see more of Madam Vastra, Jenny, and Strax. They're my favorite side characters : >
 

APZonerunner

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#55
The cheesy plastic takeover things are an old Doctor Who baddie from the 70s, thus them being a bit cheesy.

And... Vastra & co are coming back next Series alongside the new Doctor, they've already confirmed! :D
 

Sioux

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#56
After years of accidental spoilers hanging out with the crowd from UFFsite forums I recently got back into Doctor Who and have regretted it ever since. I love the show but I already know what happens most of the time. It doesn't keep me from enjoying it thankfully as the emotional power of the show still melts my cold injun heart from time to time. A couple powerful scenes in the first five series even brought me to tears...like as in the character Hughes dying from Full Metal Alchemist tears.

I am trying to catch up fully in the next couple of days so I can watch the Matt Smith send off on BBC America. My eyes are going to hate me for the next couple of days.
 

Aether

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#57
Well in about...1 hour? I get to see Matt Smith get killed off. it's been a wild ride but now I'm ready for an actor who's not afraid to show his Scottish accent haha
 

Sioux

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#60
It was a bit of an uneven episode, to be honest (I prefer The End of Time, make of that what you will), but the last ten minutes was glorious.
Being that you favor The End of Time as a proper send off for the Doctor I don't believe I have to make too much of that statement(but to honor BtG Iwill).

The End of Time was amazing for the raw narrative alone. For once the companions of the Doctor, the people we all more or less use as touching stones as viewers, are not left holding the wrong end of the stick and end up as all his previous companions do. Instead, they are all left happy, successful, and alive. He even goes one step further and ensures they all reintegrate with life without him in a way that allows them to know he'll always be there even though he'll probably never be there for them again as he is as the 10th Doctor. He has for once in all of his journeys kept his friends and companions and loved ones alive through the thickest of all the perils he has faced up until that point. The journey to that point changed him. You saw him go from the goofy over compenstaing shell shocked war survivor that was Christopher Ecclston to the
charming, intelligent, confident, brave man that he always was but the time war nearly broke due to the awful choice it forced upon him.

This makes the very ending all the more heart breaking because he has done so much and has gone through so much in that body that he doesn't want to go. He doesn't want to have to move on like all Timelords must. He wants to stay who he is as his experiences have defined him to be in the form of the 10th Doctor. He had finally come to terms with the fall of his people and he didn't have to be so angry and alone anymore. He was finally moving on and becoming his own person which, of course, makes it all the more tragic and sad when you see him so broken having the barest kind of contact with someone else. The last bit always makes me tear up as he says, "I don't want to go...".

This makes it very hard to compare the 10th and 11th Doctors. They were both very different. The 10th wanted to stay even if he was in pain because he had been through so much even if he had reservations about how much he had seen or at least that is my interpretations of the writing. The 11th on the otherhand having an extra 400 years of time plus adventuring in between and having gone through several tragedies-both immense and miniscule in scope-didn't really face the traumatic emotions of it all. He didn't have to. He was just moving passed them and moving on all throughout his run no matter how awful. He was simply too old to let himself be caught up in it even if he had to face it having gone through so much tragedy and pain in his life throughout the iterations. He would just keep moving on regardless of what it did to himself(Amy telling him he shouldn't travel alone anymore because it nearly made him ready to kill in A Town called Mercy is an example).

I think this character development plus the fast paced adventurous writing of Steve Moffet made the 11th Doctor so devoid of the emotional checks he had previously that when it came time for him to move on it wasn't as dramatic as it could be. He was ready to move on. He understood he had received more regernations and logically he didn't mind. He saw Amy in his last moments one last time and that might have been one of the few things holding him back. He had securely kept another companion so safe that she saved him throughout existence as well in the form of Clara Oswald. So, he was ready. Now I don't mean on the whole he was cold and badly written as a Doctor but if you ever see a true veteran of anything in life...they simply aren't surprised when surprises happen and rapid change desceneds. So, I think this made the finale a little weak but character wise not hard to understand at all. He is simply the 11th Doctor and he didn't mind moving on. He wanted to go.

So, in so many words, I agree. The last ten minutes was pretty phenomenal television.

This is what makes me curious about this new iteration. He could be so brand new with a new line of regernations that he doesn't remember anything anymore hence the question to Clara, "Can you drive this thing?" or he is playing the fool because this new face needs to figure out this technically new companion?

I don't know. I'm still on overload here. I marathoned through the modern series' one after the other this last month and a half and my head hurts.
 
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