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Antagonists of Final Fantasy XV

Discussion in 'Final Fantasy Discussion' started by King Bimpy, Aug 12, 2014.

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  1. King Bimpy

    King Bimpy PSICOM Soldier

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    Artist often illustrate villains as gratuitously evil for the effect of badassness. An antagonist that feels more evil than his/her/its plot requires can end up cartoonish. Nomura admitted Final Fantasy XV’s main/supporting cast are realistic and believable as real people and not anime-like. He takes a step away from the Shonen styled archetypes. Instead Seinen, which means grayer themes based on the fallacies mankind lives under resonate louder than Goku powering up to Super Saiyan 5.



    After reading Nomura’s interviews (http://sqex.info/), I came to this conclusion about Final Fantasy XV’s plot.


    Once upon a time, crystals naturally grew everywhere across the grandiose
    world. Their magical and phenomenal proprieties caught the eye of man,
    causing humanity to seek them out. In human hands, the crystals acted as a
    medium to give the leading nations potent influence over their military,
    political, and economic standing. Unfortunately, people became gluttonous;
    they wanted more power, which lead to atrocious conflicts. A cold war broke
    out between the crystals. In order to gain additional
    crystals, governments pooled all of their resources into weapons. The war
    went on forages, plaguing innocent inhabitants’ of XV with death, and
    poverty, andagony, and despair, and torment, and hopelessness until one
    day a peace treaty appeared at a certain kingdom. Since its ancient begging,
    the Caelum family valiantly protected the kingdom of Lucis from
    intruders.King Caelum managed to seize control over the last remaining
    crystal. He had officials from various governments sign the peace treaty,
    hopping it would settle disputes over that very crystal. He was dead wrong;
    soldiers from theopposing nation of Niflheim attacked. Solheim, Tenebrae,
    and Accordo wereall victims to Niflheim's madness. They barged their way in,
    armed to theteeth with heavy armaments, killing guards whose duty was to
    safeguard the crystal. Prince Noctis witnessed and heard about the
    invasion, so he decided to show the soldiers they should never set foot in his
    kingdom. The smug, rash boy charged head first, not knowing that
    hisactions could endanger the civilians. Ignis warned Noctis to hold back
    because of the consequences. Prompto told Noctis he isnot strong enough
    totake on an entire army. Gladiolus helped Noctis escape from his own
    kingdom. In the end, Niflheim soldiers stole the crystal, and now the prince
    and his three friends plan to execute a hundredfold vengeance.

    Meanwhile, in Tenebrae there is an old tale describing Etro’s Gate. Legend
    hasit thatupon a person's death, Etro, goddess of death, will greet them and
    open the gate to let their soul pass onto the afterlife. However, if one is on
    the verge of dying their soul may linger between the borders of mortality and
    life. Here in this moment, they can see heavenly light from beyond the gate,
    which is said to grant them the powers and graces of the Kingdom of the
    Dead. After one comes back to the concrete world, they realize they have
    newly found abilities. Noctis Lucis Caelum and Stella Nox Fleuret are said to
    have this blessing through their experiences.




    Okay! What does my synopsis imply for Idola Eldercapt? [​IMG]


    If crystals advance the primitive ways of yesterday, and Niflheimians greatly desire Lucis’s crystal, then Idola would have a good reason to launch a full scale invasion. It is worth noting Regis Lucis Caelum CXIII did not just expel guns but built an entire anti-armament runewall. Niflheim is consider barbaric by Lucians because they deculturalized the moment firearms became their source of wealth, cultural, technological ingenuity, and overall growth towards reaching a modern day nation. Beyond the military, Niflheim is still primitive. Pass the blame on input character? From Idola's eyes, he who holds the gold makes the rules. In Final Fantasy XV's context, gold = crystal and he = Regis.

    The stress of not having resources, crystal, to evolve left his nation in a regressive state. Regis blocked Luci's influence into Niflheim because outsiders are savage. It was their choice to choice to continue fighting after they lost crystals. A dog eat dog world. On the other hand, Regis chose to not help them through those hard times (regret?). People define their lives by what they own. It leads to greed. I believe Regis had enough with it as he observed other countries from the sidelines; an act of kindness paved way for the peace treaty. He put his faith into Idola and it backfired.

    Wait! Idola is not just invading Lucis. Remember Solheim, Tenebrae, and Accordo were victims as well. What do these countries have in common? They once housed crystals. The effect of owning a crystal granted them protection from collapsing.

    Idola is stealing the crystal, killing everyone who supports the Caelum family, and invading the four great nations. Fuck the peace treaty. Fuck those who neglected us. Our savagery shall pave the way for a new world order with barbarians ruling at the top. Rise up and take what Lucians denied from you! Regain rights, privileges, and a place in society.

    Idola won't seem cartoonish if his reason is understandable. Desperation...
     
    Joshua likes this.
  2. LeonBlade

    LeonBlade Forest Owl Staff Member Moderator Site Staff

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    This all confused me a lot.

    I'm more interested in what the crystals are used for and what they want the final crystal for. It's obvious that they aren't going to be using the crystals for the same reasons they did in the past, as it just led to their destruction, they're clearly planning something far bigger than just stealing the final crystal just to have it destroyed in the same means the ones before it were.

    There are lots of theories and points I have to discuss over the game, but I figured I would comment some on this as I'm not really sure what this is all supposed to be.
     
  3. King Bimpy

    King Bimpy PSICOM Soldier

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    Crystals = resources like oil, diamonds, and spices. Commodity.... This is fantasy based on reality, so the crystals aren’t some magical macguffin tossed down to earth by the great big deity for the chosen village boy to use against a diabolical madman. They are natural occurrences found on XV’s world. Humans are most likely the only intelligent beings since Nomura is staying away from the standard fantasy races found in previous Final Fantasies and JRPGs in general (example: the fury pet who tags along).

    Nomura said crystals were once everywhere, but unfortunately people waged war over them (we're greedy mother fuckers). With a crystal, countries like Lucis became modern (first world class powerhouse) because the crystal benefited its economy and overall development in everything except armaments (Regis doesn't favor bullets). Niflheim compared to Lucis is primitively castlepunk. They could only develop in their military. Their cultural is no longer intact when guns became that cultural. Fighting was all they had. A war economy (legit, without a crystal they lost insight on how to develop any further, but with guns that vision became one about war. Life is not free. People need to pay a price. Want food? Want housing? If Niflheim didn’t gain revenue from the spoils of war its people would face poverty.


    Lucis, on the other hand, did not have to face this because owning a crystal and using it wisely evolved the country to the point where Regis declared outsiders as barbaric. Promto isn’t well liked due to his outsider status, which gives him a lower caste in Lucian society. Note Solheim, Tenebrae, and Accordo all once received development akin to Lucis. Idola is invading these four nations that deemed themselves superior (or at least Lucis does). Final Fantasy XV is all about retrieving the crystal in the style of a road movie (film genre). It’s not being destroyed any time soon because that would defeat everyone’s motivation and urgency. Idola is bent on killing anyone who dares to stop him from taking the crystal, while Noctis is bent on killing Niflheimians to get it back.



    [​IMG]


    The world is changing if the four nations are challenged. Idola's actions might prove a new world order will commence. Who rules at the top? If other barbarians see the power Lucis, Solheim, Tenebrae, and Accordo had crumble, would they stick up for each nation or take whatever remains of their glory if Niflheim leaves anything or join forces with Idola? Is Idola demonstrating through his invasion that authoritarian groups can save mankind from its own selfish nature. Standing in Idola's point of view, I am fighting because we all fought. Lucians are not angels when they obtained the last crystal with blood on their hands. What makes them different from us? My country relied on war for so long because you refused to spread the crystals influence here! Could I have stopped? Yes, but why when it's the only thing that kept Niflheimians thriving. And now you want to play hero with this fucking peace treaty. Please, Regis, you isolated your country out of fear. Fear of becoming savage and now look where savagery has you cornered.

    Ok. I'm basically talking about the http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HobbesWasRight. The plan and motivation behind Idola's invasion has to relate to something on http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PhilosophyTropes. The far bigger thing you speak of most likely isn't tangible like opening Etro's gate to become this all mighty powerful being since Nomura is staying away from that over the top stuff. Ideology...

    For the villains I need evidence of there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  4. Arcana

    Arcana Yevonite

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    Interesting perspective.
     
  5. StarNox70

    StarNox70 Yevonite

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    Funny thing; the premise for XV sounds very similar to Type-0's opening. Some sort of treaty being broken by one overzealous dude, who places his ideology over possible repercussions. Same game director, no less! (Hajime Tabata)

    Anyway, your analysis & predictions were very well thought out. So much so, I think it deserves a blog for how detailed it is. Admittedly, villains in recent Final Fantasy installments have been lacking in development & the understanding of their motivations. I haven't really thought that much about XV's villains because they themselves haven't been that expounded upon (amongst other things in the story). With what we have so far, it's difficult to determine if Idola's intention for breaking the peace treaty is for a noble, reasonable cause, or if he's just being a greedy d-bag. Another thing to point out is the possibility of having more than one central villain, with more than one central cause for opposing Lucis. (Let's not forget the blonde hooded fellow).

    What's more interesting to me is the Crystal itself. How this crystal in this universe is used compared to other Final Fantasy iterations, considering the modern backdrop XV is utilizing. Or, even more tantalizing, if the final crystal Lucis possesses is even being used justly by the Caelums themselves.

    So many questions...
     
  6. KOKAYI5

    KOKAYI5 Red Wings Commander

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    I respect this thread idea. I've wanted for a while to figure out more about the villains of the game. I think you're pretty dead on on how Idola thinks. But I'm not 100% sure about the rest. I think the crystals are kinda like oil as a sought after resource but I think nations want them more in a quick fix way. As it sounds when I hear about the game crystals give nations what they need till they're destroyed. Seems like the ethereal powers they have could continue to advance a civilization as long as they were destroy or abused.

    I assure yall the masked man is bad too and so will likely a score of others. FFs often have about 5 villains and 1 of them is full flushed out at least. Axel and somewhat Xehanort are like that in KH games. Seymour got some backstory too. Sephiroth got some too but most was in follow games. But I will say when I kept playing 7 over and over I saw they story with him better. Can't remember about Vayne in 12.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  7. Jenova

    Jenova ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Vayne was sort of vague. He sort of flip-slopped between power hungry tyrant and reluctant villain. To this day I still can't fully tell what his motives were. The plot in XII became severely disjointed in many parts likely due to Matsuno-san's departure mid-way.
     
  8. KOKAYI5

    KOKAYI5 Red Wings Commander

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    Vayne never apologized or seemed to regret. He struck me as a corrupt politician not so much a madman. But like you said it got confused as it went on. Maybe a hd version would put more story on him and Vaan too. I was most interested in Vaan and Larsa.
     
  9. yeah_93

    yeah_93 AVALANCHE Warrior

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    What's this. This is like the first time I've read this sentence.
     
  10. KOKAYI5

    KOKAYI5 Red Wings Commander

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    Vaan is cool people to me. Funny and he could fight. I loved Pyroclasm and I only he I successfully made into a paladin.
     
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