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Doctor Who - 50 years, 798 episodes & 2 hearts

Discussion in 'Off Topic Discussion' started by APZonerunner, Oct 5, 2013.

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  1. APZonerunner

    APZonerunner Network Boss-man Staff Member Administrator Site Staff UFFSite Veteran

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    To be clear -- what I meant was that other characters in Doctor Who can provide positive female role models. I know the media in general has a problem. I also know that hasn't really happened under Moffat, I know, and River is the definition of a missed opportunity in that sense. That's what I meant. There are other places we can do it in Who other than with the Doctor himself. I think Martha and Donna in particular are both magnificent, it has to be said.

    I do agree with Moffat in one sense, in that he said the problem right now is people are saying "The Doctor should be a woman," not, "this particular actor is perfect for The Doctor." They shouldn't cast a gender, they should cast an actor, if the day comes. They cast Capaldi without even seeing anybody else, because they knew he was the right man for the job at the right time in their eyes. They got criticised for not casting a woman, but they didn't cast a woman because they had their actor from square one.

    Regarding the Doctor's gender, it's just how I see the character, really. It's the same reason I'd never want a black James Bond. I was pissed off that Daniel Craig's hair was too light! It's how I see it. Stubborn, perhaps, but it is what it is.

    We know so little about Time Lord physiology, really, and Gaiman said the way he views that line is that some regenerations are more controlled than others, and just like a human can go out and have their gender reassigned, if a Time Lord wanted they could siphon that energy into a specific gender if they wanted. He cited Romana 'trying on' different looks as an example of a controlled regeneration, as well. I think that's a great way to look at it. The question is if it'd be in the Doctor's character to do so, or indeed if he'll ever have a regeneration that is more controlled and not a horrible, violent trauma.
     
  2. Frei

    Frei Yevonite UFFSite Veteran

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    See I can understand not being keen on a female Doctor - it would mean a new dynamic and a new direction for the show. But then you mention not wanting a black James Bond? What possible impact could that have on James Bond's character (or lack thereof)? He's a sexy English man who kills bad men and has a lot of sex. What could change if he was of a different ethnicity? Would you go for a Middle Eastern Bond, or an East Asian Bond with a RP accent? Does he have to be a white man?

    Would you be okay with a black Doctor? If so, why's that different from a black Bond?

    I think the Doctor suffers from the same kind of idealisation. People are really, really stuck in their ways about him. He's always been a white man! He could never be black! He could never be female!!

    I dread to think about the outcry when 8 kissed Grace, not to mention his revelation that his mother was human (which I think is officially non-canon now?)

    Donna was wonderful and she was the companion I thought I'd dislike the most, because I can't stand Tate's comedy. How wrong I was. I thought Sally Sparrow was pretty great too. Martha, though - she was a woman of colour with her own agency who very, very quickly became a pawn of the Doctor - she gave up everything to follow him apparently purely for physical attraction, then spent her whole time fawning over him. She's not a great role model. She could have been, were she better written.

    I've not seen anyone saying "the Doctor should be a woman". I've heard loads of great suggestions. Tilda Swinton is my personal favourite. Paterson Joseph is another. Not because one is a woman, because one is black. Because they're both amazing actors.
     
  3. APZonerunner

    APZonerunner Network Boss-man Staff Member Administrator Site Staff UFFSite Veteran

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    It's worth me saying that I am half black myself, so I'm not some nutter racist. A-OK with a black Doctor, or an Asian Doctor, or a Middle Eastern Doctor, because change in that form is in the nature of the character. For Bond I do believe in adhering more strictly to adapating what Fleming originally wrote - I'm a fan of the novels - and I've taken issue with a lot of the films for that very reason. There are some things about his character that are interchangeable, and others that aren't for me. Race is one of them. There's others, like accents; I would never want Bond to speak with anything but an atypical BBC English sort of accent; not a scouse, nor a Manchunian, certainly not an American. These are things Fleming established I think you can't change, but that's just me.

    Regarding Martha, sure enough, she was all those things - and then she upped and left him, and had a life and successes without him. She's the only one to walk away, and the only one to really, properly go on and be successful of her own volition. The fact she broke free of the cycle, when even strong/awesome Donna was saying "I was going to stay with you forever," makes her the strongest of all, I think. In the end she rejects him.
     
  4. Frei

    Frei Yevonite UFFSite Veteran

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    I'm sorry if I implied I thought you might be racist or whatever, I'm aware of your ethnicity. I don't know the Bond novels nor am I a huge fan of the films so I don't really see the problem with aesthetic changes to the character, much as I wasn't really bothered when Hermione didn't have frizzy hair or when Thorin didn't have a big beard. It's all aesthetics. Characters aren't always going to look like how you imagine them, or even how the author imagined them. Hell, if Good Omens ever gets a movie or TV adaptation I'm gonna struggle to not throw a fit about how Aziraphale and Crowley look because they're not mine, but I know my characters don't matter one bit. Death of the author is a thing, and so it should be. No one will ever get it right, as you've ably demonstrated - being a bit miffed because Bond's hair is too light! Do you have an ideal Bond, out of interest? Does the talent of the actor matter? Because although I haven't seen much Bond I'm pretty sure Daniel Craig is an excellent actor, Brosnan is average, Connery is incredible, Dalton is great but probably not suited to sexy secret agent man... I dunno, I haven't seen 'em! Tim Dalton is Mr Skinner!

    Did Martha do those things though? What do we know about her after she left the Doctor? My memory of her episodes is bad because she was so damn boring so fill me in if I've missed something but afaik last we saw of her she was saving the world powered by ~I love you Doctor~. I also think it's wrong to say she's the strongest because she broke free when all three other women didn't get the chance to do so. Rose? Doomsday. Creepy dildo Doctor. Let's forget about that. Donna? She got her memory wiped. Doctor-Donna - no let's ignore that too, that was so dumb. Amy? Abandoned 'cause of the Angels. And remember that Amy had Rory, no matter how awful and abusive that relationship was (I have problems with Amy).

    Maybe Clara will actually get her own agency, who knows.
     
  5. Nikki-Cola

    Nikki-Cola Yevonite

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    I just wanted to say I'm going to New York Comic Con this weekend and Colin Baker (The 6th Doctor) and Nicholas Briggs (The voice of the Daleks) are gonna be there. I'm so freaking excited. :D
    Also, as for the Doctor's gender, I think I'm one of the few people out there who don't care about the Doctor's gender. When they cast for the Doctor, what should matter is how the actor portrays the character. Besides, hasn't the Doctor mentioned that regeneration is unpredictable? Anything can happen. Who else is looking forward to a green skinned, six armed Doctor?! Hahaha :p
     
  6. APZonerunner

    APZonerunner Network Boss-man Staff Member Administrator Site Staff UFFSite Veteran

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    Dalton is surprisingly amazing as Bond. He's one of my favourites! He was younger then, eh...!

    Well, Martha does the unrequited love dance, sure, but then she leaves. By the time she shows up again in Series 4 she's a high-ranking UNIT scientist, and when the Doctor and Donna ask her to join them, she turns them down and says I've had enough of that, I have a life of my own now. So she walks away, but she stays away, something even Jack struggles to do, and I really appreciate that about her.

    Amy's a really good character, but she's a horrible, selfish person. She's got a lot in common with Rose in that respect. Very selfish characters.

    As I understand it those two are two of the most fun people to meet! I hope Nick Briggs gets asked to write an episode one day, the stuff he's written for the 8th Doctor audio plays is amazing.
     
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  7. Nikki-Cola

    Nikki-Cola Yevonite

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    I know! The excitement is killing me! I have a stuffed, talking Dalek that I'm gonna bring for him to autograph.
     
  8. Tsukiyomi

    Tsukiyomi Red Wings Commander

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    8th Doctor audio plays? So he DID do some adventures before the original series was cancelled? Where can one find them? On the note of a female doctor, anyone else see the spoof where the doctor regenerated into a girl? I forgot where it's from but it was pretty funny...and then the spoof where David Tennant appears as the female companion to the Doctor...
     
  9. APZonerunner

    APZonerunner Network Boss-man Staff Member Administrator Site Staff UFFSite Veteran

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    While the show was off the air, the BBC rewarded a classic Doctor Who license to a company called Big Finish. Big Finish produces full-cast audio dramas - so basically, audio-only episodes of Doctor Who. They do it for the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Doctors, with the original Doctors and Companions providing their voices and a slew of all-new characters played by well-known actors. It's not quite an audio book, because there's sound effects and multiple voices, but more like listening to just the audio from an episode, with dialogue carefully tooled to explain things you can't see.

    http://bigfinish.com/hubs/v/doctor-who

    Because the Eighth Doctor only got one TV story of his own, the movie, a lot of his character has actually been fleshed out here instead. He's got 35 stories, each made of 5 or 6 episodes... so there's a lot! http://bigfinish.com/ranges/released/eighth-doctor-adventures

    I've recently listened to "Dark Eyes" - makes for a good travel thing - it was fantastic. Really very good.
     
  10. Tsukiyomi

    Tsukiyomi Red Wings Commander

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    Did the audio books help explain how the eigth doctor regenerated into the ninth or is that still a mystery?
     
  11. APZonerunner

    APZonerunner Network Boss-man Staff Member Administrator Site Staff UFFSite Veteran

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    That's still a mystery. The license Big Finish has is limited to only Classic Who right now, they're forbidden from touching anything related to 2005 on. They are subtly having 8 engaged in Time Lord/Dalek skirmishes without actually calling it the Time War, though. Presumably if they get the license for modern stuff they'll use that as a bridge. A lot of the same people work on both, though, like Briggs. 'Dalek' in series 1 is based off a 6th Doctor BF audio play!
     
  12. Sapientia

    Sapientia ShinRa SOLDIER

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    700+ episodes?! Jesus, I can barely stick with an anime around 300. I'll stick with the Walking Dead... o_O
     
  13. APZonerunner

    APZonerunner Network Boss-man Staff Member Administrator Site Staff UFFSite Veteran

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    @Sapientia Well, if you wanted to get into it you don't have to - and shouldn't - start 50 years ago ;) More like 5 or 6.
     
  14. Tsukiyomi

    Tsukiyomi Red Wings Commander

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    So I saw World War Z, which had Peter Capaldi in it...as a W.H.O Doctor. If that is just a coincidence, i'm going to kill someone.
     
  15. APZonerunner

    APZonerunner Network Boss-man Staff Member Administrator Site Staff UFFSite Veteran

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  16. soup or mann

    soup or mann Red Wings Commander UFFSite Veteran

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    I've heard a lot about the show but I've never seen an episode. I do have Netflix, though. And now that Dexter and Breaking Bad are over I'm looking for something new to watch besides Game of Bones.
     
  17. APZonerunner

    APZonerunner Network Boss-man Staff Member Administrator Site Staff UFFSite Veteran

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    Some photos from the 50th via a magazine:

    The Three Doctors:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And what's looking like an old-series style Sonic screwdriver in the 'missing' Doctor's pocket, I see...
     
  18. Tsukiyomi

    Tsukiyomi Red Wings Commander

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    The Walking Dead is back, and next month is the Doctor Who 50th anniversary special, I'm glad cable exists.
     
  19. Tsukiyomi

    Tsukiyomi Red Wings Commander

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    So you guys seen the Night of the Doctor minisode? I can't believe they are gonna bridge the gap between the eigth and ninth!! Now there is a 'War doctor" who is technically the 9th regeneration, but not the ninth doctor. the 23rd couldn't get here any sooner
     
  20. APZonerunner

    APZonerunner Network Boss-man Staff Member Administrator Site Staff UFFSite Veteran

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    Well, that 90 minutes of TV shattered me to pieces. How incredible this show is.
     
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