Final Fantasy XV Fanbase Hate: What are your thoughts?

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Feb 21, 2015
48
36
#1
I Don't know where else to put this.
I would love to hear other members opinions on this subject and how we can all truly enjoy Final Fantasy XV for what it is, art created by numerous talented individuals.
I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR THE LENGTH.

So much hate.
I have seen so much Final Fantasy XV hate in the last 24 hours and even more disturbing is that I have seen that hate correlated and cast on actual human beings. These people say that Tabata is a liar and he changed Nomura’s Vision of Final Fantasy Versus XIII. That got me thinking….

If you care, read on…

To anyone who thinks Tabata is fully changing Nomura’s vision. Let me highlight an interesting point.
Has anyone ever really looked at the Final Fantasy XV E3 2013 reveal trailer? If you look at it in a more reminiscent way, behind all its splendor and craziness, it is in essence a goodbye to Final Fantasy Versus XIII.
The whole trailer has dialogue pertaining to the changes and transformation of Versus to XV. Also even more interesting is the aspect that when this trailer was released Nomura was still director of the project and he is now still the current character designer.

For me to fully explain the impact of the E3 2013 trailer I’ll start with the dialogue at the beginning. The trailer opens up with a conversation between Noctis Lucis Caelum and what is perceived to be Stella Nox Fleuret (The now deleted heroin of Final Fantasy Versus XIII). This can be assumed because the dialogue is very similar to the trailer four years prior which depicts their meeting at a peace treaty party.
Stella’s voice rings out across a misty field, “Noctis, you see the light too.” As the prince replies “There are things I just “know” and I have no idea how.“ This dialogue’s purpose is to solidify to those who have followed Versus XIII that it is Noctis and Stella talking.



The visuals as well here are very interesting. The video depicts a young Noctis and surprisingly what seems to be a young Lunafreya, who as we know, now replaces Stella. As the two of them run through a misty field one has to wonder why the trailer has these inconsistencies? Why does the trailer depict Luna at the beginning as well as Stella’s dialogue if Luna replaces Stella’s character?
It gets even more interesting as the dialogue continues
As the scene goes on we still assume Stella is talking. “I can’t stay any longer.” She says.



Noctis replies, "My heart won’t let go.” With Stella following with a determined, “Don’t worry about me, live your own life.”



This conversation can be taken and analyzed numerous ways but it is interesting to wonder if it was made purposefully to foreshadow Luna replacing Stella while Noctis figuratively lives on in the transition to Final Fantasy XV.
Now we come to the next scene of the white robed man and the dialogue he says. “The world we purport to know is ever changing, ending as we speak. So it is and always will be.” It is interesting to see the language used throughout the trailer that highlights change and the end of the old and beginning of the new.



As it transitions into the following scenes we can draw numerous conclusions but not very concrete ones as the scenes that follow are more core story related (I’ll leave those interpretations, if there is any, up to other people.)
When it gets interesting is at the very end during the flashing of characters on the screen. It is important to note that Stella, as Versus XIII fans have known her is shown during the line up. Although, wasn’t Luna just shown during the opening to the trailer?



After the line up ends and the music is about to crescendo we witness Lord Commander Cor Leonis talking to Noctis asking him, “You want the truth?“ Noctis replies with a nonchalant "Why not.” Then Cor finishes with, “It’s complicated.”



This line of dialogue to me stands out as a metaphorical answer from Nomura or Square itself in regards to the long wait fans were burden with for Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Also it could be a metaphorical answer to why it was decided to be turned into Final Fantasy XV.
The dialogue in the next scene during the title change is really self explanatory.

Why am I writing this? The point of all this is, perhaps Nomura was a part of the changes we are seeing currently and maybe it wasn’t all Tabata.

Think about this. Nomura was still on the project when that trailer came out right? Not only that but the trailer was probably put together months before E3 took place in June.
We know that Final Fantasy Versus XIII was changed to FFXV in 2012. Tabata officially stated in 2014 Stella was scrapped…. Or so we think.
My question is, why the dialogue emphasizing change and farwells and why the inconsistencies with Luna being in the trailer as well as Stella? My conclusion and opinion, these changes were put into place at the beginning of the transition with Nomura on board.
Hell he may have well done the character designs for Luna and Regis’ new look that we have seen in the new “Dawn” trailer. We are just now seeing the fruits of all these changes.
Personally I believe Square knows it’s better to ease people in slowly with change than to outright say it’s a different game. There would be backlash like crazy and the game would not get the chance to prove itself. Heck, even 2 years in we are still getting backlash even though Square has done a great job at easing some fears people had.

Really the argument that Tabata is the one who ruins it is logically invalid and biased. Even if this is all conjecture, evidence points towards Nomura being apart of the changes and not Tabata backstabbing him and changing his vision. At the very least they had to have agreed to the changes.

We don’t know, but that’s the point. How can we say Stella is better, Luna is better, or Nomura’s vision is better. I mean game creation is a bunch of people working together and agreeing on what’s best.

Besides, evidence points to Nomura not being kicked off of the project. Evidence points to him being asked to do an even more important project… the Final Fantasy VII remake. Which, by the way, coincides with his departure from FFXV. I’ve seen so much hate on various sites over the past 24 hours based solely on opinion and biased thinking. Why can’t we stop the hate?

Let’s look at this through a new lens. We don’t know what Stella was going to be like 40 hours into Final Fantasy Versus XII and we don’t know what Luna will be like for 40 hours into Final Fantasy XV.

Just because Nomura decided to show Stella with a sword and badass determination early on in Final Fantasy Versus XIII promotion doesn’t mean that we won’t get to see later on in the full game (Or maybe even have in the party) Luna with a sword and badass determination.

In the end strength comes from the heart. Thats a staple of Nomura, if anyone has played Kingdom Hearts they should know this.
To be honest, in the shots we have seen, Luna has a inner determination in her eyes. Her character has yet to show the strength behind it.

Perhaps I am being overly analytical or maybe all the mindless hate has shown me the trends of hate in my life outside of Final Fantasy XV news. In the end it seems as though a lot of people argue semantics and biases that are based only in individual opinion. If that opinion is challenged at all they lash out in hate, for whatever personal reasons.

Im not perfect, I have biases. I may be wrong in this whole freaking post/novel. Although I know one thing, when someone’s opinion becomes illogical and no longer looks at the facts or potentialities like the above statements then that is cause for concern. When opinions turn to hate towards someone they don’t even know. They seem like little children thinking they know how string theory works. In the end they just sound stupid.

This is coming from someone who still struggles with the inability to control things and thus combats his own hate.
The hate, like the stuff some Final Fantasy XV fans are spewing, is just a way to regain control. Cause some people hate change and change is uncontrollable.

Why can’t we all see the positive ramifications of unity. A faith that is without hate.

 
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XZeroRus

Balamb Garden Freshman
Mar 21, 2015
33
51
36
#4
I hate the concept of Tabata. Now I hate Tabata. He killed Stella, Regis and much more... Let burn in hell. :(
 
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coffee-san

Sphere Hunter
Mar 18, 2015
245
120
#5
It's expected hate and it won't be the last entry of the series to have detractors.
As I suspect future "numbered FFs" will attempt to deviate more and more from the original formula, more people will use that as a reason to dislike them since people harken back to the "glory days" of the series too often.

People within the FF community tend to be too quick to judge the newer games off of a first impression rather than the merits of what the game offers experience-wise.

Not only that, but popular things being objects of hate is just a given (see: FFVII).
 

zenobia

Balamb Garden Freshman
Mar 13, 2015
31
11
41
#6
I think hate is unwanted in any fashion and was brought up to believe that if you don't have nice or kind things to say say nothing at all and Ignore the things you don't like and agree with.
 
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Feb 21, 2015
48
36
#7
Woah...... That's a bit much, don't you think?
It needed to be long to present the evidence to back up my claims. My apologies.
Regarding communication, I believe half of the problem lies with us as well. If we decide to hate because of our choice to wait 9 years and a company not catering to it. That's a little unnecessarily selfish I think.

Mind you I'm not defending any side because both sides are at fault in some way.
The main point of this logical speail is that on many sites I've seen downright hate towards other human beings because of stupid reasons as a change in character design. Some based on our own choices. This of course is hate towards the developers and the other users.

I wanted to present an argument that took both sides of a seemingly never ending debate that seems to pop up a lot amoung the circles of FFXV fans and dispel it in a hopes to bring a little more peace.
I posted it here hoping you guys would notice the things I put forth and would perhaps use thoes ideas to dispel some hate as well wherever you post if necessary. That's all.

This forum is very positive and open that's why I thought it would be a good place to post.
 
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Feb 21, 2015
48
36
#8
That it’s not much different then fan base love.
Seems a little skewed if you ask me. o_O Lol
Though I get where your coming from.
Personally, I would call it fanbase fear because they are afraid it will fail.
Either way they like it a lot. Just there "Love" for it shouldn't bring others down ya know?
 
Feb 21, 2015
48
36
#9
It's expected hate and it won't be the last entry of the series to have detractors.
As I suspect future "numbered FFs" will attempt to deviate more and more from the original formula, more people will use that as a reason to dislike them since people harken back to the "glory days" of the series too often.

People within the FF community tend to be too quick to judge the newer games off of a first impression rather than the merits of what the game offers experience-wise.

Not only that, but popular things being objects of hate is just a given (see: FFVII).
It's the hate towards people that is my gripe.
Hate on the game or games all they want I say. But leave people out of it.
:)
 

llazy77

Warrior of Light
May 27, 2014
1,149
550
29
#11
I hate the concept of Tabata. Now I hate Tabata. He killed Stella, Regis and much more... Let burn in hell. :(
Did you read the whole post. the Op is trying to say that Nomura had a hand in those changes as well not just Tabata
 

llazy77

Warrior of Light
May 27, 2014
1,149
550
29
#12
This is one of the best Posts I have read on this site well done OP the hate is insane especially on that GAF thread. Yes the ATR was mediocre but I think they are trying to spread out thire announcement throughout all thire ATR's this year I mean they have Pax, Tgs, Pgw and Jump Festa. They cant show everything in one ATR they need to spread it out a bit. Also I dont think Tabata is ruining everything for all we know Nomura could have had a hand in those changes as well. According to your evidence with the 2013 trailer dialogue.
 
Likes: zenobia
Jun 7, 2014
898
625
Poland
#13
I don't want to be offensive (ok I want a little) but while you accuse the fanbase of making illogical assumptions, you do the exact same thing in many of your points, except you put a different spin on the whole thing. And the whole "fanbase hate" seems quite overblown in your post. GAF loves drama and they overreact to literally everything, XV isn't very special in this regard. And it's not like their worries are completely unwarranted...
 
Likes: LeonBlade

buddhafied

Sphere Hunter
Sep 30, 2013
241
126
Vancouver, BC
#14
Fail to see this how this is different from other obsessed fanbase and their love/hate of a game.

I always find it interesting when people (not specific at OP, just a very general statement) get highly worked up over comments and things that typed in forums/comments, etc. The "so much hate" often is very bias because you have a group of people doing nothing but to gang up on a topic that, otherwise, the core 95% of the consumer either don't care or didn't bother to make comments until they can see the end products.

Far as I concern, my group of friends who are in their late 20's and 30's are all excited and loving the things they see. A trailer is a trailer, a demo is a demo, none of them is the actual game. Spending too much time analyzing these things and speculating can be fun until you start to interact with other people and read about how they think. My suggestion is (if you're feeling upset or overwhelm about it that is), then stop letting yourself engaging in them. Life as a gamer is a lot more beautiful when you don't visit those forums. :D
 

Lulcielid

Warrior of Light
Oct 9, 2014
3,826
2,826
28
Argentina
#15
My suggestion is (if you're feeling upset or overwhelm about it that is), then stop letting yourself engaging in them. Life as a gamer is a lot more beautiful when you don't visit those forums. :D
I think less stressful is more accurate, you just only need to be on the "right" forum and for that reason i will never join NeoGaf, ever.
 
Feb 21, 2015
48
36
#16
Fail to see this how this is different from other obsessed fanbase and their love/hate of a game.

I always find it interesting when people (not specific at OP, just a very general statement) get highly worked up over comments and things that typed in forums/comments, etc. The "so much hate" often is very bias because you have a group of people doing nothing but to gang up on a topic that, otherwise, the core 95% of the consumer either don't care or didn't bother to make comments until they can see the end products.

Far as I concern, my group of friends who are in their late 20's and 30's are all excited and loving the things they see. A trailer is a trailer, a demo is a demo, none of them is the actual game. Spending too much time analyzing these things and speculating can be fun until you start to interact with other people and read about how they think. My suggestion is (if you're feeling upset or overwhelm about it that is), then stop letting yourself engaging in them. Life as a gamer is a lot more beautiful when you don't visit those forums. :D
I think you misunderstand my post. I have no doubt that it's a small minority that reacts with hate towards the product, and by all means they can do that.

My gripe is with people turning hate towards other PEOPLE. Not just in regards to arguments pertaining to FFXV.

I wrote this post as a counter argument to the Nomura/Tabata design changes that seem to lead to personal attacks and wishes of harm. I thought my info I put out could be used to dispel hate towards other users or developers. At least on the issue of Final Fantasy XV.

People can not like the game. People can like the game.
But to be vocally hateful to other human beings in regards to a game is wrong. That's my purpose of this post.

Also in not visiting those forums, I don't really. It's mostly here, Nova Crystallis, Gematsu, and such. But it's gotten worse on the usually positive sites. But I also think it's important to actively try to change the atmosphere or spread it on positive forums like this one.

I hoped that, if necessary and at your guys discretion. If an argument turns hostile towards others on other sites you could use this info to dispel it. That's all.

This sites pretty nifty, doesn't really have those problems.

I may be a fan, but I actively try to not let my fandom have anything to do with my treatment of others. :)
 
Likes: zenobia
Feb 21, 2015
48
36
#17
I don't want to be offensive (ok I want a little) but while you accuse the fanbase of making illogical assumptions, you do the exact same thing in many of your points, except you put a different spin on the whole thing. And the whole "fanbase hate" seems quite overblown in your post. GAF loves drama and they overreact to literally everything, XV isn't very special in this regard. And it's not like their worries are completely unwarranted...
Personally I don't go on GAF. The points I make may be based in speculation but it is out of a want for a unifying of ideas and not a this or that or Nomura or Tabata lol mentality that feeds personal attacks.

And people can be worried. Heck I have a bit of anxiety about the game. I like it a lot.

My personal belief is people can hate Final Fantasy XV all they want, I like it.
But when that disagreement of opinion turns to personal attacks I want to do something about it. Because being a fan should not mean being hateful to human beings.:happy:
 
Likes: zenobia
Feb 21, 2015
48
36
#18
I think less stressful is more accurate, you just only need to be on the "right" forum and for that reason i will never join NeoGaf, ever.
I agree wholeheartedly!
It's all about community. All I want is to be excited as fans in unity but also in difference.
Heck, if we all agreed that would be boring.
That's why I like it here. We don't all agree. But we don't attack others personally.

That's why I thought the trailer was intriguing it brought up a 3rd alternative that combines both sides of a fan argument. Thus opening pathways for new discussions and opinions as well as possibly dispelling personal hate by muting the arguments that lead to it. Lol even if the evidence is conjecture.
 
Feb 21, 2015
48
36
#19
This is one of the best Posts I have read on this site well done OP the hate is insane especially on that GAF thread. Yes the ATR was mediocre but I think they are trying to spread out thire announcement throughout all thire ATR's this year I mean they have Pax, Tgs, Pgw and Jump Festa. They cant show everything in one ATR they need to spread it out a bit. Also I dont think Tabata is ruining everything for all we know Nomura could have had a hand in those changes as well. According to your evidence with the 2013 trailer dialogue.
Thank you very much! I didn't know how others would take it. It is conjecture after all.
I just wanted to bring some peace through an interesting idea.
I'm glad it was good and I'm humbled to know that you liked it. :woot:
 
Likes: zenobia

buddhafied

Sphere Hunter
Sep 30, 2013
241
126
Vancouver, BC
#20
My gripe is with people turning hate towards other PEOPLE. Not just in regards to arguments pertaining to FFXV.
Ah, okay, I get where you're coming from. Though I think my statements are still valid on that this is also still a obsessive fan (or in this case, "not a fan") mentality.

People make that type of cowardice statements all the time, and most of the case it's not acceptable, because most of the time that type of behavior will trace back to racism, sexism, homophobia, religions attacks, political partisanship, etc. In those cases, we call them out because they are clearly being a narrow minded bigots, but in scenarios like this we call them fanboys. To me, fanboism is very similar to say racism, as it's often subjective and very single focused. They lump one single thing or person to the entire project or game or series. This goes for both ways, people who are in favor and non favor of the things they like. Internet brings these people out because there's no real consequences usually.

And again, I think the best way is to stay away (if you want to remain sane and also not getting young age high blood pressure), or engage in a way where you won't get affected by those statement (if you want to make a better community, by demonstrating how sane people behave).
 
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