Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

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Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
794
191
26
Unknown, Unknown
Advent Children is a different issue, I'd say.






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>Differences in input devices are entirely market-driven and have been since the PS2. FFXI allowed PS2 players to use KB/M, remember? There's no way that a lack of KB/M would prevent a game from being released on console if the publisher wanted it there. Star Citizen is just a weird case where being designed for high-end PCs was part of its USP (and where a console port would be a terrible idea given the difficulties the development team have already been having with scope creep).

Is that why consoles don't have mouse and keyboard for first person shooters? Also you know why FFXI allowed for Keyboard and Mouse support because they were cross-platform with the PC, if they didn't then their would be issues in the multiplayer. I mean hell you know why FPS games are segregated? PC and Console it's because mouse and keyboard users would blood splatter console players.



>
Options can, in fact, be a bad thing. =P

Even ignoring the fact that graphical detail mods often look amateurish, there are some games for which allowing mods would be antithetical to their original artistic intent. I could completely understand if, say, Fumito Ueda rejected the idea of mods for The Last Guardian in order to prevent mod creators from creating a version of the game where the boy is replaced with a skilled warrior who's tasked with slaughtering a dozen Tricos.

This is the most nonsensical thing I've ever read, are you serious did you type that up in all seriousness? Options are objectively a good thing there is no debate about that,, you can choose not to use them, this artistic vision argument is BS, because you don't have to use mods, you can if you want to, thus making options an objective good, artistic vision or not, because you can choose to keep it the way they wanted it, or choose to do what you wish with it, it's your game, do what you want with it it's objectively a good thing, the option is objectively good, not subjectively, this whole options can in fact be a bad thing would mean that for some reason me using a mod in a certain game effects you, if it's multiplayer then you have a point, but in a single player experience you don't, regardless of the quality of mods, the option to use them is an objective good thing..





>Hahahahahaha, I love it. Console exclusives are unethical, but PC exclusives are perfectly okay because consoles can't run them. (Let's just ignore the fact that 99+% of PC exclusives are nowhere near current-gen quality.) No bias there!

Did you really just try to compare PC exclusives to console exclusives. Did you just do that? I don't even need to tell you why, but I'm am in shock you don't know why PC exclusives don't come to consoles.
1. What reason would their be to bring a PC exclusive title to a console, what reason would their be to bring something to a inferior platform from an inferior platform, I can name more a 1000 reasons why the opposite is good, I can't tell you a single reason apart from more people being able to play it, but then again, some games just can't be handled.
2. The PC is an open platform, consoles are a closed platform Ikkin, who controls what on console, and who controls the PC(If you say Valve I'm going to laugh, because they don't), oh yeah that's right Sony and MS has control over what goes on their systems, the PC does not. Also I would love to know where you got that 99 percent figure from.
3. Now onto my third I can't take this line serious let's look at games like Dota 2, unlike FFXI, and FFXIV Dota can't be played with a controller period, it would be rather shite if they ported it over, thus wouldn't selling period, because it wouldn't be made well, it's a game your grandpa computer can play, but the controls are several steps complexity above the consoles. I don't want to believe you didn't think this.
4. Now onto your console keyboard and mouse support, you know why FFXI, and FFXIV would be allowed, but Dota 2 is not? Well I'll give you a simply answer FF MMOs are playable with a controller, DOTA 2 would have to be dumbed down the overall complexity to achieve this why do you think most RTS games are exclusive to PC, and the ones on console don't have as much complexity. Since it will just be a shitter version of what you can play on PC, and PCs that are already in your home thus being redundant, and please don't tell me you don't have a computer, they are a basic necessity in modern day living a console is not, so even if you got the most casual computer, you would play something like Dota 2 much better than console players would, not from a graphical standpoint, but from a control standpoint using a KB and M instead of a PS4 controller, just hook it up to HDMI thus a console Version of the game will not sell since, because it would be redundant, and worse than the PC Versions that are playable on your casual game players AMD A4 Laptop with an Integrated GPU.

Also do you think that Sony or Microsoft want Keyboard and Mouse competing with their controllers? On systems that they 100 percent have control over? If your answer is yes, then you know what I don't know to tell you anymore, because if they allowed games like Dota 2 on their platform a game that is primarily made for KB and M, and is really only playable with keyboard and mouse, then they would lose sales on their expensive peripherals where as games that can use both,, they know console primary gamers will use controllers, so it's not that big of a threat for them to include other options.

This opposite is true for console exclusives coming to PC.
With those you have an infinitely better version that can run on your computer that can be 10x better than the consoles, that can scale, sadly though it might be better to play this one with a controller, because most developers of such titles don't bother to have good keyboard and mouse support, but luckily PCs don't have an owner, apart from the end user, so we have options to how we play our games, we decide ok I'll play this game with a mouse and keyboard, or I'll play this game with a Steam controller. Not to mention locking games to the PC is less about malevolence and more about it simply not being worth porting to console.
Let's look at a game like Undertale for instance you can play the game with a controller, even though I personally find it better to use a keyboard trust me I had a harder time fighting Sans with that controller than on a keyboard. Undertale is a game that can be run on all pretty much any computer bought in the last 10 years. There is almost no reason to do so, because almost any body that is interested in Undertale already has the system to play it on, and if they want to use a PS4 controller they can. Now onto console exclusives Sony and MS want you locked into their ecosystem paying to play their online, they themselves don't care if their system is inferior spec wise, thus can't deliver an experience that most PC Gamers would want, hell most gamers if they had the cash would want.They also know that if their games showed up on Steam their boxes would be irrelevant and they would lose control of their consumer. So for them dangling games in front of your face and forcing you to buy their system therefore locked, and invested in their ecosystem, games running at 60FPS be damned. Console Exclusives try to be graphical showcases, but they don't have the hardware to push the frame rate, but PCs do, but they don't care, because they want you locked in their ecosystem.

To sum this up on PC you have an objectively better version of the game that can do things the consoles couldn't handle in 1 millions years, the opposite is true for PC exclusives going to console, sometimes it has to be dumbed down control wise, graphics wise, and possibly scope wise. If it's something like DOTA 2 would be dumbed down and fundamentally changed if it reached the consoles, and would probably be something no one would want to play since they can get a better experience just playing it on their AMD A4 laptop than their PlayStation 4s. Not to mention Sony and Microsoft will not allow games that are only feasible with a keyboard and mouse on their systems it would compete with the controller, and the game simply won't sell well on consoles either since it would be an inferior experience.

>Considering how absurdly large open-world games have gotten, I suspect that limitations in scope have far more to do with budget than they do with pure technical considerations. Frame rate and resolution optimizations on console are completely irrelevant to PC ports, because those things take almost no work to increase. As for AI, that was always given short shrift even when there was plenty of extra CPU power to use for it.
If the consoles were more powerful, developers who have the budget to make bigger worlds, would do it, of course it's not a pure technical limitation thing, but it definitely plays a huge role. especially for developers that have a budget that can do it, if the consoles were more powerful like GTX 980, i7-3770k, 16GB of RAM level more powerful, modular and upgrade-able the developers that want to make bigger stuff that the PS4 can't handle, because remember while the PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpio are more powerful they are held back by the PS4 and Xbox One originals, games have to run the same way. Sadly though some of these games aren't developed like Battlefield 3 which took PC as the focus then dumbed it down for consoles, no they take the opposite approach, they scale upwards, however keyboard and mouse suffers, and sadly sometimes these games come with a locked frame rate, or are just bad ports in general.

>What are you talking about with regards to Watch Dogs?
Ubisoft downgrades on the PC to not make the console versions look vastly inferior, they got caught when people modded the game and found the E3 settings there, they got exposed badly and released a shitty damage control statement which basically said nothing.

>Buying a premade PC means a significant reduction in the performance that you'll get for your money.
Never said premade, you pick out the parts, the store builds it, some do it for free if you buy all the parts in that store, they are of your choosing.


1) Emulators rely on the existence of a motivated development base and supporters who are willing to provide sufficient donations to keep the development base fed. As such, the OG Xbox is in a particularly poor position with regards to the development of a fully-functional emulator -- most of its games have PS2, GameCube and/or PC ports (all of which can be played on modern PCs), and of its exclusives, most can be played on X360 or XO through either backwards compatibility or HD remasters. It makes a lot of sense that it'd be difficult to get an Xbox emulator off the ground. The PS4, in contrast, has enough desirable exclusives for the emulation community to focus on.

Completely irrelevant to my point against relying on emulation for preservation, what if those emulators didn't exist that's my point, what if Xbox 360 titles couldn't be played on the Xbox One? What if an Xbox 360 emulator didn't exist period this is something abstract that can affect any console in the future. Also your emulators for preservation point is hurt because there are still Xbox exclusives no matter how you slice it, what if someone wants to play those games, all the Xbox's die, and all the people making Xbox emulators up and quit. Emulation is objectively not a solid way of preservation in comparison to just porting the game to PC, and it's foolish to even think that it will be a good way of preservation in the future when it relies on community interest, the security in place, and the complexity of the hardware, also what if a certain game that wasn't very popular was confined to a dead console with a heavily complex architecture, and some people want to play that game, then it isn't preserved since no one will be willing to deal with it.

2) By the time the last SNES dies, people will be playing SNES roms on chips implanted in their brains or something. =P Same goes for PS4 emulation, most likely.
Funny though irrelevant

3) Console exclusivity doesn't mean performance will remain the same forever. One of the reasons why emulators like Dolphin are so loved is that they're able to increase resolution and framerate to 4k/60 if you've got the computer for it. You know not all console games get those performance upgrades, and it's not just performance upgrades with emulators unless some kind soul makes texture upgrades, and allows for any type of meaningful modding, the point is moot, especially since it's more efficient for the PC to run the game natively, than from within an emulator. When you have to emulate a game you can very well say good bye to 60FPS+ in some games, especially if the game itself doesn't support it, and no one has bothered to go into modding for it which is more likely within an emulator than on a PC. There are PC exclusive features that simply couldn't happen on consoles which is why emulation is not a replacement for a good PC Port, not to mention that developers that make PC ports, have much more of a monetary incentive to make sure the game runs at the standard framerate(60FPS) as opposed to people making an emulator and trying to run a game at 60FPS when it was originally 30..

4) Physical console games can be backed up just the same as PC games. I'm sure there are illicit ways to get console games even now, and by the time disc rot is a major concern, game preservationists will have made sure the data won't be lost. (Digital can go jump in a hole. =P )

Umm no Physical games even though they can be backed up, you need the original disc to play them, what do you think that Sony's gonna let you back up the disc and discard the disc? Also dumping is useless if you can't play it, so it becomes a useless waste of space, and if the next gen console isn't BC then there might not be a monetary incentive to go about porting it. Also the PS4 and Xbox One aren't cracked so there are no illicit way of getting those games, and yes I'm aware they are dumped, but they aren't usable. Not to mention those that make it usable are under no obligation to release it to the public.


This is cringe, I brought up the SNES as an arbitrary point, and I did say if they chose not to keep supporting it's library, also if emulators didn't exist for this system, but you know what? I'm going to make a scenario let's say there is this incredibly secure console that has amazing games like 50+ games are exclusive to this console you can't get them anywhere else it's locked onto this console and even if when the discs are dumped onto your PC, for preservation purposes assuming they even compile into the game code, because it's possible to lock the disc from being ripped the original Xbox did this until they found a way past that, but what if that doesn't happen ever, they wouldn't be playable, and by the time you find out how all of this type of particular console are dead, the chips are decayed, and the discs rotted. Also emulation for this console is nigh-impossible, so you ain't playing the games on PC, you couldn't anyway since you wouldn't be able to access the games code. Also don't bother dumping the game to the hard drive the console formats your hard drive in a certain way, so it's impossible to do this, and no program currently exists that allows you to read the hard drive, so you can dump them for your PC to one day make them playable again through an emulator assuming they don't just up and quit, and no one has attempted to do so, it's far too complex. That's assuming that the console even uses hard drives to begin with, it's possible for it to use carts which aren't dump-able.

This would cause the game to not be preserved, now let's say all 50 games had a PC Version likelihood they would be on Steam, and there is a clause that says if Steam goes down you can keep all your games. Now let's say all these 50 games had incredible DRM security, someone someday can find a way to crack it, and they would have the time to because digital files don't decay, Also it's likely that the developer of the game will just sell it again, and even if it's like a DOSBOX situation where the game is so old, that it's not regularly compatible with everyday machines, luckily emulation for such a thing is easy, since it's just PC there is no one going to try and not make it emulate-able unlike consoles where they have to make sure it's not possible to emulate it. Now I don't believe that such a thing will happen, but the possibility still remains, and it's short-sighted not to see that.



Now FFXV running on a GTX 1080 Ti hmm that's pretty cool, I mean that 1080 Ti is more powerful than anything in the consoles, hopefully that means it can actually run at 60FPS preferably at 4K.
 
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Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
794
191
26
Unknown, Unknown
"“In the end, Final Fantasy XV was completed, and it’s finally in everybody’s hands. Within a month of release, we sold six million copies. As I said at the beginning, if we failed this time, there wouldn’t be a next time, which means that probably this isn’t our final Final Fantasy. The series will probably live on.”
http://www.dualshockers.com/2017/03...ntasy-series-will-continue-brand-used-danger/

Hmmm

""Is FFXVI being worked on right now? and by who?"
FFXVI is only going to happen if XV does well (this sounds suspect to me but S-E so...)

"I don't believe you. Even if XV only sells 3 millions, XVI would happen, even with a much smaller scale. They're probably working on XVI as we speak."
I can promise you they aren't. Everything is going into XV main team, Other teams are working on 7 remake and KH3. There's nobody sitting around somewhere doing XVI in secret"
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1233181

I will say though he did a good job, even though I'm disappointed, I mean couldn't make a Versus XV, or FFVIII Remake if FF is dead right?
 

Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
1,099
1,705
>Differences in input devices are entirely market-driven and have been since the PS2. FFXI allowed PS2 players to use KB/M, remember? There's no way that a lack of KB/M would prevent a game from being released on console if the publisher wanted it there. Star Citizen is just a weird case where being designed for high-end PCs was part of its USP (and where a console port would be a terrible idea given the difficulties the development team have already been having with scope creep).

Is that why consoles don't have mouse and keyboard for first person shooters? Also you know why FFXI allowed for Keyboard and Mouse support because they were cross-platform with the PC, if they didn't then their would be issues in the multiplayer. I mean hell you know why FPS games are segregated? PC and Console it's because mouse and keyboard users would blood splatter console players.
Market forces? Definitely.

It's not like there haven't been FPS games with KB/M options on console. IIRC, the Unreal Tournament game on PS3 allowed that. The difference in the player skill ceiling can be handled through separate servers, which has been done for other control scheme differences (like Move vs. controller) in the past.

If enough interest in KB/M on console existed, it'd be included as an option. It just happens that, for whatever reason, console users like their weird dual-analog shooter controls. (I, meanwhile, sit and sulk that I can't use a Move controller or the DS4 gyro instead, because dual-analog shooter controls are highly unnatural to anyone who hasn't been playing with them for years. -_- )

> Options can, in fact, be a bad thing. =P

Even ignoring the fact that graphical detail mods often look amateurish, there are some games for which allowing mods would be antithetical to their original artistic intent. I could completely understand if, say, Fumito Ueda rejected the idea of mods for The Last Guardian in order to prevent mod creators from creating a version of the game where the boy is replaced with a skilled warrior who's tasked with slaughtering a dozen Tricos.

This is the most nonsensical thing I've ever read, are you serious did you type that up in all seriousness? Options are objectively a good thing there is no debate about that,, you can choose not to use them, this artistic vision argument is BS, because you don't have to use mods, you can if you want to, thus making options an objective good, artistic vision or not, because you can choose to keep it the way they wanted it, or choose to do what you wish with it, it's your game, do what you want with it it's objectively a good thing, the option is objectively good, not subjectively, this whole options can in fact be a bad thing would mean that for some reason me using a mod in a certain game effects you, if it's multiplayer then you have a point, but in a single player experience you don't, regardless of the quality of mods, the option to use them is an objective good thing..
To use an example from a different medium, do you really think it would be "objectively a good thing" if a movie like Schindler's List came packaged with the option to mess with its content in any way you pleased? I'd argue that it's almost inarguably worse to offer people the opportunity to sabotage the artistic vision of a movie like that than to insist that it be taken as what it is, even if no one's forced to experience the sabotaged version. And, if it's true for some movies, there's no reason it shouldn't be true for some video games, either.

>Hahahahahaha, I love it. Console exclusives are unethical, but PC exclusives are perfectly okay because consoles can't run them. (Let's just ignore the fact that 99+% of PC exclusives are nowhere near current-gen quality.) No bias there!

Did you really just try to compare PC exclusives to console exclusives. Did you just do that? I don't even need to tell you why, but I'm am in shock you don't know why PC exclusives don't come to consoles.
Of course they're comparable. Insisting otherwise reeks of system wars garbage.

1. What reason would their be to bring a PC exclusive title to a console, what reason would their be to bring something to a inferior platform from an inferior platform, I can name more a 1000 reasons why the opposite is good, I can't tell you a single reason apart from more people being able to play it, but then again, some games just can't be handled.
You underestimate the value of a bigger audience. A bigger audience allows for a bigger budget, which allows for more time to be spent developing the game.

The size of the targetable audience is particularly critical in today's market, because budget trumps raw power in determining a project's technical ceiling. A $10 million game on PS2-level hardware could thoroughly trounce a $40 million game on PSOne, but a $20 million game made for a 1080ti likely wouldn't even stand up to an $80 million game on PS4.

There's a reason the only PC exclusive that's attempting to be a visual spectacle is Star Citizen, and that's because it figured out a way to get a big budget without relying on a large userbase.

2. The PC is an open platform, consoles are a closed platform Ikkin, who controls what on console, and who controls the PC(If you say Valve I'm going to laugh, because they don't), oh yeah that's right Sony and MS has control over what goes on their systems, the PC does not. Also I would love to know where you got that 99 percent figure from.
The 99% figure is a very kind estimate based on the fact that, as you said, the PC is an open platform. =P The only PC exclusive I'm presently aware of that meets or surpasses the quality of console exclusives is Star Citizen. In contrast, there are probably hundreds of times as many de facto PC exclusives -- Steam Greenlight garbage, non-professional games, browser games, Kickstarter projects, etc. -- as there are current-gen console games, practically none of which have the budget to compete with console games.

It's worth pointing out that a closed platform actually does provide benefits to an audience who willingly subjects itself to it. Sony/MS/Nintendo offer a warranty of a sort, protecting their userbase from malicious or otherwise dangerous programs through the process of determining what gets sold on their store in the first place. An open market certainly has benefits of its own (I'm a big fan of how much free software you can get on PC if you know where to look), but it's not a pure improvement over the alternative.

3. Now onto my third I can't take this line serious let's look at games like Dota 2, unlike FFXI, and FFXIV Dota can't be played with a controller period, it would be rather shite if they ported it over, thus wouldn't selling period, because it wouldn't be made well, it's a game your grandpa computer can play, but the controls are several steps complexity above the consoles. I don't want to believe you didn't think this.

4. Now onto your console keyboard and mouse support, you know why FFXI, and FFXIV would be allowed, but Dota 2 is not? Well I'll give you a simply answer FF MMOs are playable with a controller, DOTA 2 would have to be dumbed down the overall complexity to achieve this why do you think most RTS games are exclusive to PC, and the ones on console don't have as much complexity. Since it will just be a shitter version of what you can play on PC, and PCs that are already in your home thus being redundant, and please don't tell me you don't have a computer, they are a basic necessity in modern day living a console is not, so even if you got the most casual computer, you would play something like Dota 2 much better than console players would, not from a graphical standpoint, but from a control standpoint using a KB and M instead of a PS4 controller, just hook it up to HDMI thus a console Version of the game will not sell since, because it would be redundant, and worse than the PC Versions that are playable on your casual game players AMD A4 Laptop with an Integrated GPU.
Forget the controller. I've got a keyboard hooked into my PS4 already (it's useful for finding videos on YouTube =P ), peripherals can be packaged with games, and games that require peripherals other than a standard dual-analog controller are allowed to exist so long as they explain what's needed on the package.

Presumably, the reason why there isn't a console version of Dota 2 is that it's a) free and b) can be played on whatever computer a potential player had lying around from the days before tablets started their reign of terror, so there's no reason not to play on PC.

Also do you think that Sony or Microsoft want Keyboard and Mouse competing with their controllers? On systems that they 100 percent have control over? If your answer is yes, then you know what I don't know to tell you anymore, because if they allowed games like Dota 2 on their platform a game that is primarily made for KB and M, and is really only playable with keyboard and mouse, then they would lose sales on their expensive peripherals where as games that can use both,, they know console primary gamers will use controllers, so it's not that big of a threat for them to include other options.
This argument makes no sense. The biggest threat to controller sales on console is the decline of local multiplayer, which is at least partially the fault of the console manufacturers. Consoles come with a controller, so most players have absolutely no need to buy new controllers regardless of whether they're allowed to use KB/M. I can't imagine a single peripheral sale would be lost to a KB/M exclusive game.

This opposite is true for console exclusives coming to PC.
With those you have an infinitely better version that can run on your computer that can be 10x better than the consoles, that can scale, sadly though it might be better to play this one with a controller, because most developers of such titles don't bother to have good keyboard and mouse support, but luckily PCs don't have an owner, apart from the end user, so we have options to how we play our games, we decide ok I'll play this game with a mouse and keyboard, or I'll play this game with a Steam controller.
Alternatively, the lack of incentive to procure exclusive games to help promote a console means that you end up missing out on a game entirely. =P

I can't imagine how it could possibly be argued that it'd be preferable to risk losing out on games entirely when the alternative is simply to wait the decade or so it'll take for emulation to make them playable on PC.

To sum this up on PC you have an objectively better version of the game that can do things the consoles couldn't handle in 1 millions years, the opposite is true for PC exclusives going to console, sometimes it has to be dumbed down control wise, graphics wise, and possibly scope wise. If it's something like DOTA 2 would be dumbed down and fundamentally changed if it reached the consoles, and would probably be something no one would want to play since they can get a better experience just playing it on their AMD A4 laptop than their PlayStation 4s. Not to mention Sony and Microsoft will not allow games that are only feasible with a keyboard and mouse on their systems it would compete with the controller, and the game simply won't sell well on consoles either since it would be an inferior experience.
...you do realize how laughably over-the-top this is, right? Consoles are well within an order of magnitude of even the most outrageous PC builds, and they're entirely capable of using KB/M when the developers bother to include the option. Even if dual-analog support is required (which I don't believe to be the case), there's no reason a developer couldn't split the sub-par dual-analog experience out into a heavily restricted "Baby Mode" that the game strongly pressures players to abandon. The reason that hasn't been done is almost certainly financial rather than mandated from the top given that almost no one even bothers offering the option.

>Considering how absurdly large open-world games have gotten, I suspect that limitations in scope have far more to do with budget than they do with pure technical considerations. Frame rate and resolution optimizations on console are completely irrelevant to PC ports, because those things take almost no work to increase. As for AI, that was always given short shrift even when there was plenty of extra CPU power to use for it.
If the consoles were more powerful, developers who have the budget to make bigger worlds, would do it, of course it's not a pure technical limitation thing, but it definitely plays a huge role. especially for developers that have a budget that can do it, if the consoles were more powerful like GTX 980, i7-3770k, 16GB of RAM level more powerful, modular and upgrade-able the developers that want to make bigger stuff that the PS4 can't handle, because remember while the PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpio are more powerful they are held back by the PS4 and Xbox One originals, games have to run the same way. Sadly though some of these games aren't developed like Battlefield 3 which took PC as the focus then dumbed it down for consoles, no they take the opposite approach, they scale upwards, however keyboard and mouse suffers, and sadly sometimes these games come with a locked frame rate, or are just bad ports in general.
"If the consoles were more powerful" is the wrong way to think about it. What really matters is the baseline, which will only ever improve when the old baseline is abandoned.

As such, it's actually advantageous for PC users for full-generation jumps in console specs to exist, because that shifts the baseline. Without consoles providing millions and millions of instances of identical hardware, it's likely that the average baseline would be even lower in order to address a greater portion of the PC user base.

In any case, streaming in open world games tends to make the size of those worlds all but irrelevant -- isn't No Man's Sky the largest game world ever made? -- so I'm not sure we're going to see bigger worlds even after the next baseline shift. We'll see more detailed assets, obviously, but those can easily be scaled up or down for different PC settings without affecting the core of the game.

>What are you talking about with regards to Watch Dogs?
Ubisoft downgrades on the PC to not make the console versions look vastly inferior, they got caught when people modded the game and found the E3 settings there, they got exposed badly and released a shitty damage control statement which basically said nothing.
Okay, that's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard in a while. XD Why even bother trying to hide it?

>Buying a premade PC means a significant reduction in the performance that you'll get for your money.
Never said premade, you pick out the parts, the store builds it, some do it for free if you buy all the parts in that store.
Presumably, you'll be paying more for the parts than if you sourced them yourself from online, though, so you're still reducing your price/performance ratio.
 
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Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
1,099
1,705
1) Emulators rely on the existence of a motivated development base and supporters who are willing to provide sufficient donations to keep the development base fed. As such, the OG Xbox is in a particularly poor position with regards to the development of a fully-functional emulator -- most of its games have PS2, GameCube and/or PC ports (all of which can be played on modern PCs), and of its exclusives, most can be played on X360 or XO through either backwards compatibility or HD remasters. It makes a lot of sense that it'd be difficult to get an Xbox emulator off the ground. The PS4, in contrast, has enough desirable exclusives for the emulation community to focus on.

Completely irrelevant to my point against relying on emulation for preservation, what if those emulators didn't exist that's my point, what if Xbox 360 titles couldn't be played on the Xbox One? What if an Xbox 360 emulator didn't exist period this is something abstract that can affect any console in the future. Also your emulators for preservation point is hurt because there are still Xbox exclusives no matter how you slice it, what if someone wants to play those games, all the Xbox's die, and all the people making Xbox emulators up and quit. Emulation is objectively not a solid way of preservation in comparison to just porting the game to PC, and it's foolish to even think that it will be a good way of preservation in the future when it relies on community interest, the security in place, and the complexity of the hardware, also what if a certain game that wasn't very popular was confined to a dead console with a heavily complex architecture, and some people want to play that game, then it isn't preserved since no one will be willing to deal with it.
If there were games that required an Xbox emulator to preserve and had a positive enough reception to build an audience for said emulator, it would already exist. Even in spite of the current circumstances, it's quite likely that some game preservation society will take up the task before the last Xbox dies (though it's easy to see why they wouldn't consider such a task particularly pressing at the moment).

Universal PC ports are at least as infeasible as universal emulation, given market forces, rights issues, and all other manner of corporate weirdness. And emulation, as it currently stands, is actually a pretty good solution not only for console games but also old PC games, which are often unplayable without software like DOSbox or community-created mods. How do you expect your "immortal" PC games to remain playable if/when Windows is replaced as the standard operating system?

2) By the time the last SNES dies, people will be playing SNES roms on chips implanted in their brains or something. =P Same goes for PS4 emulation, most likely.
Funny though irrelevant
Not really, given that the point is that emulation is as good a method of game preservation as any.

3) Console exclusivity doesn't mean performance will remain the same forever. One of the reasons why emulators like Dolphin are so loved is that they're able to increase resolution and framerate to 4k/60 if you've got the computer for it.

You know not all console games get those performance upgrades, and it's not just performance upgrades with emulators unless some kind soul makes texture upgrades, and allows for any type of meaningful modding, the point is moot, especially since it's more efficient for the PC to run the game natively, than from within an emulator. When you have to emulate a game you can very well say good bye to 60FPS+ in some games, especially if the game itself doesn't support it, and no one has bothered to go into modding for it which is more likely within an emulator than on a PC. There are PC exclusive features that simply couldn't happen on consoles which is why emulation is not a replacement for a good PC Port, not to mention that developers that make PC ports, have much more of a monetary incentive to make sure the game runs at the standard framerate(60FPS) as opposed to people making an emulator and trying to run a game at 60FPS when it was originally 30..
Emulators aren't anywhere near as efficient as running software natively, no, but emulator performance still tends to benefit from the progression of technology.

Getting upset over the inability for a 30fps native game to run properly at 60fps or games maintaining their original textures makes it very clear that you wouldn't be satisfied with a pure port of console code on PC. What you're asking for would either increase the budget significantly (by requiring more time to be spent on the same animations and textures to meet PC standards) or force a decrease in the game's scope to accommodate the difference in cost. Unless you're dealing with modern AAA games (which create assets at higher quality levels than they intend to use, rely on motion capture rather than keyframing, and are expected to have absurdly high budgets), the latter's the more likely of the two, which would make things worse for everyone.

4) Physical console games can be backed up just the same as PC games. I'm sure there are illicit ways to get console games even now, and by the time disc rot is a major concern, game preservationists will have made sure the data won't be lost. (Digital can go jump in a hole. =P )

Umm no Physical games even though they can be backed up, you need the original disc to play them, what do you think that Sony's gonna let you back up the disc and discard the disc? Also dumping is useless if you can't play it, so it becomes a useless waste of space, and if the next gen console isn't BC then there might not be a monetary incentive to go about porting it. Also the PS4 and Xbox One aren't cracked so there are no illicit way of getting those games, and yes I'm aware they are dumped, but they aren't usable. Not to mention those that make it usable are under no obligation to release it to the public.
I'm not talking about the console saving the game to the hard drive. I'm talking about the same sort of Blu-ray ripping software and DRM cracking that's likely being used to play games on the work-in-progress PS3 emulator. =P And it doesn't really matter that the games aren't playable yet, as long as the data can be backed up and used before disc rot sets int.

This is cringe, I brought up the SNES as an arbitrary point, and I did say if they chose not to keep supporting it's library, also if emulators didn't exist for this system, but you know what? I'm going to make a scenario let's say there is this incredibly secure console that has amazing games like 50+ games are exclusive to this console you can't get them anywhere else it's locked onto this console and even if when the discs are dumped onto your PC, for preservation purposes assuming they even compile into the game code, because it's possible to lock the disc from being ripped the original Xbox did this until they found a way past that, but what if that doesn't happen ever, they wouldn't be playable, and by the time you find out how all of this type of particular console are dead, the chips are decayed, and the discs rotted. Also emulation for this console is nigh-impossible, so you ain't playing the games on PC, you couldn't anyway since you wouldn't be able to access the games code. Also don't bother dumping the game to the hard drive the console formats your hard drive in a certain way, so it's impossible to do this, and no program currently exists that allows you to read the hard drive, so you can dump them for your PC to one day make them playable again through an emulator assuming they don't just up and quit, and no one has attempted to do so, it's far too complex. That's assuming that the console even uses hard drives to begin with, it's possible for it to use carts which aren't dump-able.

This would cause the game to not be preserved, now let's say all 50 games had a PC Version likelihood they would be on Steam, and there is a clause that says if Steam goes down you can keep all your games. Now let's say all these 50 games had incredible DRM security, someone someday can find a way to crack it, and they would have the time to because digital files don't decay, Also it's likely that the developer of the game will just sell it again, and even if it's like a DOSBOX situation where the game is so old, that it's not regularly compatible with everyday machines, luckily emulation for such a thing is easy, since it's just PC there is no one going to try and not make it emulate-able unlike consoles where they have to make sure it's not possible to emulate it. Now I don't believe that such a thing will happen, but the possibility still remains, and it's short-sighted not to see that.
Relying on such an absurd hypothetical really doesn't help make your point. =P There's never been a form of security that a sufficiently motivated group of humans haven't figured out how to get past. It's infinitely more likely that some forced Windows update will break compatibility with 50 games that never get patched/modded to work on current machines than that a console manufacturer will manage to make a console that resists attempts at hacking indefinitely.

Now FFXV running on a GTX 1080 Ti hmm that's pretty cool, I mean that 1080 Ti is more powerful than anything in the consoles, hopefully that means it can actually run at 60FPS preferably at 4K.
Tabata shows off a version of FFXV with 100 million blades of grass, and all you can think is "I hope it's 4k/60?" XD;

Personally, I think the FFXV tech demo is a great example of how the scaling capabilities of modern engines make console specs all but irrelevant as far as a game's PC ceiling is concerned.
 
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Well I only focused on the 4K 60FPS, because Square usually with the FF games have shit tier PC Ports.

Type-0 HD medocrity in it's purest form
FFXIII on release HOT SHIT SANDWICH
FFXIII-2 ok
LR:FFXIII ok needs Ultrawide support
FFXV if it follows this trend holy shit, I don't know what to say, they need to hire some people that actually know how to make PC Versions of games, because holy shit they don't know what they are doing.
 

T.O.T

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FFXV if it follows this trend holy shit, I don't know what to say, they need to hire some people that actually know how to make PC Versions of games, because holy shit they don't know what they are doing.
It doesn't seem like FFXV would turn out to be a crappy port if Tabata and BD2 are going to be behind it. It's probably part of the reason he's been playing around with various PC side things to enhance things.
 

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It doesn't seem like FFXV would turn out to be a crappy port if Tabata and BD2 are going to be behind it. It's probably part of the reason he's been playing around with various PC side things to enhance things.
Wasn't Tabata and BD2 behind the Type-0 HD Port? I mean they didn't even unlock the framerate, knowing them, they going to lock the frame rate to 60FPS, and forget that Ultrawide resolution exists.
 

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Wasn't Tabata and BD2 behind the Type-0 HD Port? I mean they didn't even unlock the framerate, knowing them, they going to lock the frame rate to 60FPS, and forget that Ultrawide resolution exists.
I have no clue if they were or not. I really don't see what the problem would be with the game running at 60 FPS on PC. For me, anything beyond 60 FPS excluding competitive settings is really just fluff then.
 

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I have no clue if they were or not. I really don't see what the problem would be with the game running at 60 FPS on PC. For me, anything beyond 60 FPS excluding competitive settings is really just fluff then.
The more FPS the better, games shouldn't have locked frame rates on the PC period, and if the user wants locked frames it should be optional like Devil May Cry 4
 

Jubileus

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Good grief @Hey Everyone you sound like such a spoiled child!

Also what's with Square and there slow ass pace in bringing games to Steam my goodness gracious, release PC Versions in the same year dammit.
The more FPS the better, games shouldn't have locked frame rates on the PC period, and if the user wants locked frames it should be optional like Devil May Cry 4
Read your own comments and see if you can realise just how spoiled and demanding you sound.

These things take time, and they're working on them right now.

Why is that so hard to understand? It's only been 3 freaking months after release! Not everything is going to come at the snap of your fingers.

The latest DualShockers articles shows that they're working on an enhanced PC version as well as adding in extra enemies.

The evidence is right before your eyes yet you're still choosing to bitch and whine?

I know that you're a 19 year old teenager but jeez man, grow up and stop whining and complaining like a spoilt brat. You can't go through life behaving like this or you're gonna get destroyed out there.
 

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Good grief @Hey Everyone you sound like such a spoiled child!





Read your own comments and see if you can realise just how spoiled and demanding you sound.

These things take time, and they're working on them right now.

Why is that so hard to understand? It's only been 3 freaking months after release! Not everything is going to come at the snap of your fingers.

The latest DualShockers articles shows that they're working on an enhanced PC version as well as adding in extra enemies.

The evidence is right before your eyes yet you're still choosing to bitch and whine?

I know that you're a 19 year old teenager but jeez man, grow up and stop whining and complaining like a spoilt brat. You can't go through life behaving like this or you're gonna get destroyed out there.
Ok was Final Fantasy Type-0 HD PC Version worth the wait?
Witcher 3 was released on Steam, same time as consoles, and it's a much better port than Type-0 HD ever will be, or any PC Port of FF in recent memory, they have mediocre at best, and atrocious at worse .
Skyrim, Fallout 4, Batman Arkham City was 1 month away.
Battlefield 1 same thing
Almost every AAA game from the big publishers in recent memory released on Steam same day or near the same day buddy.
Forgive me for having expectations @Jubileus
Also I was talking about Square and the Final Fantasy series as a whole not just FFXV.
I'm aware these things take time, but Square hasn't released anything that was worth that time.

GTA V was worth the time, they delayed it, and it was all the better for it.
Square with Type-0 HD? Straight up mediocrity

GTA V PS4 AND XBOX ONE 18 November 2014
PC Version April 14 2015
So roughly 5-6 months
Now Type-0 HD
March 17, 2015 consoles
PC Version? 5 months nearly the same amount of time for a substandard port
August 18, 2015

I mean jeezus when people find ways of obtaining 60FPS on PPSSPP but you can't do the same if your remaster on Steam? Do you expect me to take that seriously?

This isn't FFIX where the game can run at 15FPS and it doesn't matter no this is a full on action oriented game 60+ FPS is a standard.
 
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Jubileus

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Also I was talking about Square and the Final Fantasy series as a whole not just FFXV.
I am aware of this.

Your posts consist of nothing but complaints. At least own up to it and stop dodging that.

Everyone has expectations. We all have been disappointed by one thing or another.

However do you see anyone else here bitching and moaning endlessly?

Or is it just you? (Hint: it's just you)

Fix your sour attitude young man.
 
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I am aware of this.

Your posts consist of nothing but complaints. At least own up to it and stop dodging that.

Everyone has expectations. We all have been disappointed by one thing or another.

However do you see anyone else here bitching and moaning endlessly?

Or is it just you? (Hint: it's just you)

Fix your sour attitude young man.
Ok dad, but seriously though they can't be having these substandard PC ports, that aren't worth the wait time, because holy shit, FF Type-0 HD should have just released same day, hell even on the same day it wouldn't be acceptable. Sometimes I just think Square should just higher people that are competent with PC Ports, because they have dropped the ball. It better not a GTX 1080 Ti to run this game, if this game is poorly optimized at launch they better prepare for a Arkham Knight level of beatdown, people will hit that refund button quick. I really hope FFXV doesn't end up like Dark Souls 1 PC Port, I mean
@Jubileus you seem pretty old, so you should know what on earth happened there, man that port needed divine intervention from the modding community.Also I'm not sour, I'm a mix of flabbergasted, and bamboozled. I also find it hilarious and pathetic at the same time. I really hope Edios is involved with this port or else all hope is lost.
 
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Jubileus

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Finding an excuse to justify complaining is never a good thing *smh*

Ok dad, but seriously though they can't be having these substandard PC ports, that aren't worth the wait time, because holy shit, FF Type-0 HD should have just released same day, hell even on the same day it wouldn't be acceptable.
It's not wise to compare PC ports of another game to FFXV because the production and development is different for each game.

What happened with Type 0 doesn't translate to FFXV being like that 100%. Be more open minded and flexible about this.

Sometimes I just think Square should just higher people that are competent with PC Ports, because they have dropped the ball. It better not a GTX 1080 Ti to run this game, if this game is poorly optimized at launch they better prepare for a Arkham Knight level of beatdown, people will hit that refund button quick. I really hope FFXV doesn't end up like Dark Souls 1 PC Port
As I said in an earlier post, we have visible evidence that they're working on making the PC version outstanding compared to the current console version. If you do more research, you will find articles of Tabata saying he is going to make the PC version from scratch, and not just a simple port.

you seem pretty old, so you should know what on earth happened there, man that port needed divine intervention from the modding community.
Actually I'm 26. I guess you could say I'm an "old" 26. Being immature for too long is a detriment more than anything.

My main point is, it's fine to have complaints since we all have them, but don't make them the only thing you're capable of talking about.
 

T.O.T

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I know that you're a 19 year old teenager but jeez man, grow up and stop whining and complaining like a spoilt brat. You can't go through life behaving like this or you're gonna get destroyed out there.
19 huh. That is odd indeed. I'd expect someone of that age to have more patience, but this should be a reminder for me that not everybody is going to be the same.
What? I'm pretty sure Witcher started out on PC, so I don't get your point there. Fallout 4 came out on multiple platforms at once, but had a good number of lower QoL bugs..some which were game breaking. Also you bringing up the time span of FF mainline games getting to PC and comparing that to other companies isn't doing you any good. SE have almost always prioritized console over PC, and that's not going to change anytime soon by the looks of it. Every company is not going to operate the same. So in this case all I can say to you is deal with it.
 
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Finding an excuse to justify complaining is never a good thing *smh*



It's not wise to compare PC ports of another game to FFXV because the production and development is different for each game.

What happened with Type 0 doesn't translate to FFXV being like that 100%. Be more open minded and flexible about this.



As I said in an earlier post, we have visible evidence that they're working on making the PC version outstanding compared to the current console version. If you do more research, you will find articles of Tabata saying he is going to make the PC version from scratch, and not just a simple port.



Actually I'm 26. I guess you could say I'm an "old" 26. Being immature for too long is a detriment more than anything.

My main point is, it's fine to have complaints since we all have them, but don't make them the only thing you're capable of talking about.
BItching about someone else bitching, ok also I don't really care about your age Jubileus, I mean it's good to know, but I don't really care, I only said my age to prove something about nostalgia. I mean that wasn't a point Jubes.

Type 0, and Lightning Returns are my reasons Lightning less so, because hey at least they got to very basic standards of PC Gaming so they get a plastic star. also just because he says he wants something doesn't mean it's gonna happen, and after Type-0 HD which is just that game should have come out on Steam same day as console if not the same second by how mediocre it is. So I'm going to be pretty pessimistic knowing Square, and I hope I'm wrong, but hey if I'm not I have plenty of roasting material. I mean it's incredibly fun to rip on Assassin's Creed Unity, and Batman Arkham Shite, but I would not that be the case, but if it would be pretty funny though.
Also Jubes I was doing that research to, I'm a PC elitist(no i do not think console players are inferior), and at one point I was looking forward to FFXV coming to PC, you know 2013?


Now on a more serious note, I hope the game is very good with a Steam controller, if I do get around to downloading this game, I want to use it with a Steam Controller. Same with Dragon Quest Heroes II, and FF7 Remake when that eventually hits Steam which tbh I'm even more scared for that one I suspect will be a straight up port. Well whatever the modders can do their magic if Square messes it up.
 

Hey Everyone

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19 huh. That is odd indeed. I'd expect someone of that age to have more patience, but this should be a reminder for me that not everybody is going to be the same.

What? I'm pretty sure Witcher started out on PC, so I don't get your point there. Fallout 4 came out on multiple platforms at once, but had a good number of lower QoL bugs..some which were game breaking. Also you bringing up the time span of FF mainline games getting to PC and comparing that to other companies isn't doing you any good. SE have almost always prioritized console over PC, and that's not going to change anytime soon by the looks of it. Every company is not going to operate the same. So in this case all I can say to you is deal with it.
I don't ask Square to operate the same, also I mentioned BF1 I simply ask them to not have substandard ports. You know locked 30FPS, locked 720p, I mean Dark Souls 2 and 3 got it right, so I don't see the problem here. I don't really care about them prioritizing console over PC, but for christ's sakes don't bring out bad ports, just bring out ports that live up to modern PC Gaming standards. You know unlocked frame rate?, increasing resolution? You know that thing that FF Type-0 HD does when you go into Max AA, but down-samples to 1080p?

I'm not asking for GTA V people, just a quality standard PC Port. I don't need Square to have PC exclusive features, just a quality PC Port.



But oh boy oh boy I can't wait for the mods, the nude mods, the difficulty mods, the weapon mods, the quest mods, the frame rate mods, the resolution mods, the graphics mods, the Versus XIII mods, but the most important are the nude mods obviously.
 
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Jubileus

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@Hey Everyone

You implied I was old, therefore I corrected you by telling you my actual age.

There's a reason why people aren't discussing things with you cordially.

Think about that for a second.
 

Hey Everyone

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You know what for shits and giggles I might try to play the entire game with nude mods, I know for starters my first play through, I'm modding it so I can keep the young part throughout chapters 14-15, wanna see how it looks.