Discussion in 'Final Fantasy Discussion' started by LeonBlade, Jan 18, 2015.
Nope, see my post above:
I'm moderaly interested in what kind of VR experience they're making? Mostly for the curiosity of how they would translate FFXV gameplay into a first person motion controlled experience.
I've only played FFXII briefly a long time ago, but from what I remember, Vaan was a pointless character (Penelo too actually) whose only purpose was to serve as a medium for storytelling (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong since I'm more than happy to discuss this).
That sounds like such a shame tbh, but yes, it's an example of tweaking a story to accommodate one audience.
Going by the reception for FFXII, most people weren't impressed by Vaan.
From what you're saying, it makes more sense to have kept Basch on as the MC instead of introducing Vaan just to appease one audience.
Gonna have to agree with this.
Although it does make me appreciate the dark moments that we did get all the more.
Not a fan of VR. I'd rather stick to standard DLC expansion.
Playing video games on a TV screen as a temporary escape from reality is enough. Putting my head into an enclosed, claustrophobic space to do that is a bit too much imo.
R.I.P to 23 minutes of my life dealing with Dread Behemoth, which doesn't even include the amount of time I restarted from a party member dying. Playing without a HUD can be scary sometimes.
Thanks for the correction. I hadn't kept up on the VR aspect news in regards to FFXV because I had assumed it would be a ways off and top of me personally not getting involved with it.
I don't put any stock in that rumor at all, but... I have to admit that would be an amazing way to do a VR episode. And that name would be the trolliest move they could possibly make. XD;
(Seriously, though, trippy psychological sequences seem like they'd be ideal for VR.)
I don't believe that "forc[ing] the creator to make tweaks, changes and adjustments in areas he/she would have otherwise left alone" is a bad thing in a lot of cases, honestly.
I've written stories intended to fit within a specific word count, and I almost always feel like those stories are stronger after I prune the excess words.
I've written stuff that I had to cut down to meet a word count I didn't know existed until after I thought I was finished, and the same thing happened.
Being forced to make tweaks, changes, and adjustments in areas one would have otherwise left alone is a great way to recognize what is necessary, what is valuable, and what is cruft. Working within limitations can often produce results that are more impressive than the work one would have produced if those limitations didn't exist.
It's also worth pointing out that working within limitations is not the same as censorship. Classic Disney movies aren't "censored" because they aimed for a G rating; Beauty and the Beast in particular certainly isn't "censored" because they abandoned their initial "darker" take in favor of a more kid-friendly musical (everyone involved seemed much happier with what we ended up getting, actually!). Likewise, FFXV isn't a "censored" version of Versus just because that project might have been allowed a higher rating -- it's a reboot of that project with different starting assumptions, and it's unclear how much of value was even lost.
Censorship is weird stuff like human characters bleeding black for no real reason, not decisions early on about what kind of project one intends to make/commission.
It's interesting to note that, while FFXV is rated T in the States, it shares Type-0's CERO C rating in Japan and its PEGI 16 rating in Europe. It'd be difficult to argue that XV isn't a "hard T" in a way FF games haven't really been since FFVII.
If that was the case then prepare for bloodlusted Versus XIII fans, World of Versus shouldn't be a DLC period let alone VR based, better if it would be the dark world cramming Versus XIII into a DLC/expansion is a terrible idea.
Do the Dark World instead, then after a couple of years do Versus XIII. Or if they are going to do anything with Noct's Dreams don't call it WORLD OF VERSUS, just call it WORLD OF DREAMS, and don't contain any Versus XIII content in it, save it for later.
You make very good points.
I have no doubt in my mind that during the development process, they had to create custom limits so that the team can remain focused on the essentials to get work done on time, and to ensure quality.
However, I need to stress that I was specifically referring to instances where the creators and developers had to change things because it didn't fit the rating, or it pushed the boundary too much to be acceptable.
When a portion of the body of work is dubbed "too extreme", or "we can't put this in here because it doesn't fit the rating that we're going for", then it becomes a problem.
When creators have to reign themselves back and hold back because the big bosses say "we can't have this in here because it's just too much. Could you make it less XYZ?", then I would consider that censoring.
To reiterate so that there are no misunderstandings, this is my thoughts on the gaming industry as a whole, not just for FFXV.
Well, yeah, I know the focus is on changing things because they didn't fit the rating.
But I guess the thing is, I think there's a difference between externally-imposed censorship and remaining within one's initial commission. Commissions always come with limits, not only in terms of desired rating but also in general... and it's not exactly "censorship" to be told "make a sequel to [Title X]," regardless of how that might limit one's options. To use an example of a show I used to watch, I might find Nickelodeon's reluctance to let characters reference death overtly to be absurd (particularly in light of the fact that they were also willing to let the show depict a character suffocating on screen o_0; ), but I'm not sure it's reasonable to consider that censorship when other network restrictions that limited the show (like reductions in airing time) clearly aren't.
FFXV is a little different because the initial commission changed. But, given that the game as it exists now is a reboot of the project rather than an attempt to preserve as much of it as possible, I'm not convinced that that changes the calculus.
That games can't get away with being the "every game" model like FFVII was trying to be, I think he goes off the rails from there trying to specifically define and limit it to a maturity level. A good base idea, but after a certain point reads like an excuse to blame censorship.
There's absolutely no reason a compelling story can't be told without explicit language and gore. You can hit all the same emotional notes just fine with good writing. In some cases, an off-screen killing or implied evil act can even hold more weight than watching someone's head getting cut off. Final Fantasy isn't going to be "fixed" with an M rating. It'll be "fixed" by not trying to appeal to everyone. It needs any focus, not any specific one.
When FFVII came out, it's totally possible for someone to not have a proper snowboarding game that would appreciate the snowboarding mini game in FFVII. Now, if you want to play any kind of basic minigame, you can find a better one for free or super cheap somewhere.
What this series needs is better writing, and I say this as a person who is more interested in gameplay than story. The focus should be more on telling an emotionally impactful story as that's the one thing that can set them apart from the competition. I really enjoyed FFXV, but it's like the story was an afterthought and that was the biggest reason it got the mixed reactions that it did. A good story as the backbone can set the tone for everything else, even if some individual aspects aren't perfect. They need to hire new writers.
To bring back the thread into the topic of news:
Just 11 days for Gladiolus DLC and first batch of "improvements" into the game´s story/chapters.
Haven't the FF mainline games for the most part had questionable writing? In FFXV's case, I think the story itself took a backseat to the journey of the 4 Chocobros...unless the journey in itself was the intended story. To give an outside example, perhaps you have heard of the series One Piece? Story writing wise, it doesn't have the greatest pacing and is pretty repetitive, but a good number of people stay invested in the series due to the journey they get to experience with the characters. What matters the most at the end of the day regardless of the topic is execution in itself. Even something that would be deemed well written could end up falling short if the execution is not there to support it as well.
They have questionable writing when you look back on them with 2017 glasses, but the reason people are so passionate about their favorites is because they hit them emotionally.
We're not talking about pacing and crap like that that no one ever cared about until recently. Simply the ability to tell a story that captivates and makes the player feel something. By their standards in their day, most of the FF games hit those notes. Now, the standards are higher. But, since the one real defining factor of the series was hitting those notes, this is the area they should have focused on in the first place.
This includes the execution of that story, BTW. So we're not that far off. The whole storytelling experience came off as a bit hollow for me, for a series that is known for its feels. If there's a magic for them to get back, that's where it is.
FFXV had good-decent writing in my opinion, almost all the interactions felt genuine and human to me (the real-time talk is great).
the problem is the lack of cutscenes that led to many "blank" holes in the plot and underdeveloped characters; unlike FFXIII anime melodrama the writing was fine this time.
i'm actually surprised, because the only relevant work of the writer was in dissidia: duodecim.
Okay I understand that. The magic hasn't been lost, as this topic is pretty subjective. Some people enjoyed FFXV emotionally as much as they had past titles (if not more such as in my case), and some such as yourself did not. There is no straight forward formula at the end of the day.
This is part of the reason why feedback is important. I would not be surprised if FFXIII feeling like a movie for some and being linear was echoed so loud that it did impact how FFXV turned out to some degree.
I didn't say I didn't enjoy it. Nor did I say there was a straight forward formula at the end of the day. I said the game lacked focus, and that's where I think the focus should have been. I enjoyed the game, but I found the story structure to be incredibly lacking, and that has nothing to do with whether or not I personally found enjoyment in it (I did enjoy the story overall, but it still lacked). It's about keeping the faith in the franchise. Even then, that's just one suggested area of focus. The main point is that it wasn't focused at all. They will ultimately need to identify what they're trying to be down the line if they want to remain relevant beyond the next title.
I wouldn't mind seeing similar work from Itamuro when it comes to character interaction. Definitely knocked it out of the part with the main leads imo.
I understand that you did not say either of those things, but those are things I felt like mentioning. I disagree with you on the aspect of a focus not existing at all. Some areas I can understand from different perspectives did need more focus. Rather or not some of that will be addressed fully only time will tell. I'm pretty sure Tabata has already mentioned several times of FF being a challenger again. If that isn't creditable enough for you for identity(beyond looking at how the mainline series has evolved over time), then there really isn't much else that can be said.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. It was a problem of telling, but not showing. The writing itself is completely above board in my opinion.
You are talking about something entirely different from what I'm talking about. This has nothing to do with things not being finished or not spending enough time on aspects of this game. It's about what to prioritize moving forward.
If priorities are the focal point of your stance, why did you feel the need to mention identity in a prior post then? I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this one, so I'll just leave this as my final response on the matter. Thank you for your time Dr. Bretto.
Separate names with a comma.