Final Fantasy XV: Thoughts on the Development

[Yause]

Also, something that's been on my mind: in a 2010 interview with Famitsu, Nomura had announced that Versus XIII's scenario had been completed. We assume that would've meant plot, script, and story were not only finished but also checked and given the OK, correct?

I'd guess that the main narrative (Nojima's part?) was complete. NPC dialog, sidequests, and the like tend to be added later when the team expands.

Why, then, would the team need to make any changes at all to XV's story? Technological advancement means XV should be able to tell Versus XIII's story more effectively, not less. I don't want to speculate too wildly, but the change from Versus XIII to the more mainstream XV may indeed have resulted in other necessary changes, not just a simple platform transition. Whether these changes will turn out for better or worse remains to be seen, but clearly one person on the Internet is showing a lot of enthusiasm for this game, haha.

XV is XV, and not versus XIII. They're working with the same foundational material, but it's a different production by a different team. Changes may have been made to restrict the scope of the project (same concept and end point but with reworked details?), while the new crew may also have their own aspirations.

An example of this in the past might be Mother 3 - same basic story and characters as the N64 iteration, but whereas the original was an ambitious story with multiple protagonists, varied locations, and a timeline spanning 10 years, the final GBA game focused only on the main story.

 

[Yause]

Yes, too very true, but I wanted to talk about the management behind the game and why it was delayed and such. I think those are worth look at more of. If only because it does seem like a huge issue in gaming since this isn't the only game to have gone through a development time like this.

That's definitely an interesting subject. As you've said, there were/are systematic problems with Japanese development philosophy, so late engines, staff departures, and lengthy delays are symptoms. At the end of the day, it boils down to what it means to be a game creator.

Suffice it to say, Japanese creators opted to ignore the established software engineering methodologies that drive western development (i.e. miniature view of the entire cycle from the start, fixed client requirements during initial planning, a complete timeline with milestones estimating when and how each objective is to be met) in favor of a more artisan-oriented view. For example, developers were used to pushing refinement at the individual level, organically evolving their work as they saw fit. A designer might keep tuning the battle system, dreaming up new mechanics over time as the idea expanded. A character modeler would aim for the most impressive models, demanding high polygon counts and then tweaking each part of their work until it looked just right. No blocky, awkwardly-proportioned Bioware models here. ETAs were often a moving target.....while managers had some expectation of when they wanted a game to be released, the process didn't call for rigid enforcement (except at the end when it was time to rip out what wasn't coming along and polish what worked to a sheen). After all, you can't rush master craftsmen, right?

As for Square Enix, the Crystal Tools team was constantly playing catch-up, changing the tools and feature set to accommodate on-going developer requests. Instead of laying down an architecture for everyone to conform to (decided early on after thorough consultation and then locked down), they worked the other way around, changing the technology to conform to everyone. In that regard, it wasn't just FFXIII choking the process, but rather the collective impacts of evolving XIII, versus XIII, and XIV specifications.

In the west, id Software and 3D Realms were often seen as strange beasts (often with envy until recent years when the pitfalls truly caught up) with their "when it's done" policy: organic change, constant iteration, no strict deadlines. However, Japanese development has persistently been "when it's done". Some creators don't want anything besides "when it's done", so they've migrated to handheld and mobile platforms, where the design ethos is more compatible with their philosophy.

 

[Rin]

Well a completed story usually means it has a begining, middle and a ending, but on the other hand it =/= complete, coherent, self conteined plot in a single game, it could be very possible that it originally had buch of plot threads/questions hanging unresolved, which could let to more sequels/spin offs for that game; at least thats my take on why changes to XV´s plot were done.

XV is XV, and not versus XIII. They're working with the same foundational material, but it's a different production by a different team. Changes may have been made to restrict the scope of the project (same concept and end point but with reworked details?), while the new crew may also have their own aspirations.

Thanks, Lumina and Yause! This explanation eluded me, and in fact the story changes do begin to make sense if we consider that Versus XIII's story left open the possibility for multiple entries. The VERSUS Epic that the E3 2013 trailer hinted supports this speculation.

Since we'll never know what the Versus XIII would've looked like, we can at least try to enjoy XV.

 

[buddhafied]

I agree with a lot of people here regarding on the information released on Versus XIII was very premature. I will go back to the same response I had for *years* when I read about fans' reaction to Versus XIII, "it's crazy that people get so hyped up from one trailer." I get it, we are fans, we are passionate, we like what we saw on a trailer. That said 4-5 years ago, people were genuinely *upset* and losing their wit because the game might not ever come out. To which, all I can say is "give me a break." I can't care that much of a game when I knew almost nothing about it except from one trailer, some concept arts and briefer than brief character description. It's attitude like that which makes a lot of games never living up to their expectation at the first place.
</rant>

I have a lot of points I want to make, but I also want to ask you guys if you think there's broken promises that I might have missed.

Care to touch on the points you want to make? What you had there didn't have much talking point nor you listed anything that were really broken promises. First off, things have to be promised, or at least confirmed, at the first place for it to be broken. Please don't think I'm gunning at you, I'm actually quite interested in what people think about the developmental problem of this game, I just don't see you brought up enough for this to be a discussion.

 

[NemesisSP]

Sorry this took so long, I had gotten caught up in real life problems.

When I titled this topic "Broken Promises" my original goal was to discuss the feelings about these decisions concerning XV in a more specific fashion than just the general threads. Specifically, the development of the game, the change in development teams, and specifically, the promises made by said teams. So, it was more if you felt they had broken promises they had made. I could retitle the topic to something more relevant if you do not want to talk about that in particular.

Look, some of you are right, the game is still in development and changes will be made. However, the problem with that is that that argument ignores the biggest issue with it. And that is this.

Since we're not privy to SE Japan's internal affairs, none of us can really say for sure just what exactly has been happening with XV's development. Unless one of you is secretly an insider. lol

I don't know if SE gave Nomura the permission to say at E3 2013 that XV's story would not change from Versus XIII's (something to that effect) or what. Perhaps it was the exact opposite: SE needed Nomura to reassure fans. However, Tabata had been designated co-director by that time already. Now I'm not trying to imply that replacing Stella with Luna is solely Tabata's decision (I highly doubt it'd be that easy to cut a major character based on personal whim), but clearly SE have not been particularly honest with XV's advertising.

Also, something that's been on my mind: in a 2010 interview with Famitsu, Nomura had announced that Versus XIII's scenario had been completed. We assume that would've meant plot, script, and story were not only finished but also checked and given the OK, correct?

Why, then, would the team need to make any changes at all to XV's story? Technological advancement means XV should be able to tell Versus XIII's story more effectively, not less. I don't want to speculate too wildly, but the change from Versus XIII to the more mainstream XV may indeed have resulted in other necessary changes, not just a simple platform transition. Whether these changes will turn out for better or worse remains to be seen, but clearly one person on the Internet is showing a lot of enthusiasm for this game, haha.

I baleee

The original story concept was already finished. The development cycle for that part was finished in 2010, we saw that completed scenario in part in the TGS 2011 Trailer. The game looked like it was ready to be finished and then it was rebranded. But as Nomura pointed out, the scenario had not changed. Whether he was supposed to or not is pretty much unknown, but as he was the director at the time, we can assume that Stella was not removed. She did show up in the E3 2013 trailer, Nomura had specifically stated that it was her. But then Tabata joins as co-director and we're seeing a lot of changes. No, I don't think it was Tabata solely, but at the same time, it is hard to overlook the things he says. He says he wanted to streamline the story while still be true and faithful to it, but most of what we've seen doesn't seem to be very faithful. Removing Stella from the game contradicts that because she had been in the game as long as Noctis and the gang, why was she singled out and no other character we currently know about? The two other female characters are confirmed to be in the game, the dragoon and the black haired character seen in the E3 trailer. So why does Stella seem to be have been expendable when she was the lead heroine?

And also, Stella becoming a new character is a broken promise because we were told that they were going to have a different type of relationship than most FF leads. She was the unwilling antagonist who had the same kind of powers as Noctis. We saw them together in those trailers and you could get that vibe. We didn't know much about Stella, but we knew more about her than we do about Luna. I'm not saying Luna is a bad character, I'm saying that we promised this one character and then they removed her because the new development cared more about their own vision then the vision of the original team.

And this leads me to my biggest issue, Tabata and Nomura both promised they'd be more open with the game. But then they both went silent for a year and what do we get when we hear from them again. That Nomura has been removed as director and Tabata has taken over. And while Tabata was better about it, but he still left out the news that Stella was not in the game until it was far too late for any of us to say that that might have been a bad idea. I see a petition for Stella's return to the game and I admit I did sign it, but that was only because I wasn't as informed on the subject as I am now. I bring it up only to mention that there are fans who have gotten that extreme about it. It was a bad idea and nothing they've done has shown us that it is anything but that. It doesn't help that Tabata refuses to give a real reason for why she didn't fit in the story that he claims he's trying to be faithful to.

Again, if this doesn't seem like it is a broken promise, that's fine. It is an opinion, but this is an opinion based topic. That was the idea. I wanted to discuss the feelings about the changes and whether or not you liked or hated or understood them. I see a lot of people saying that SE betrayed them when Tabata announced this and I would be lying if I didn't say I could see where they are coming from. The game has been in development for a long time and it doesn't seem like Tabata or SE has considered that changing the game so much might have done more harm than good. Believe me, I want the game to be a success, but at the same time I don't see why Nomura and Stella needed to be removed from the equation to get this game done, especially since what we saw of the game when it was under Nomura looked fine enough as it was.

 

[CRIMSON-XIII]

i think xv is very much versus 13. i feel like from 2006 to 2012, all we ever saw was footage ofthe beginning invasion, thats changed. to better allow the movement and flow of the story. we still see the destruction. it will still be an epic sequence.

stella wasnt as important as ppl think, if she was, they would have just continued with luna as stella and never said anything. the story was good this way, so they didnt even bother. and just discarded the name. im not worried

 

[Infest]

We were told many things but fact is that we never saw anything more than the very opening section of versus XIII. And that has been scrapped or at least massively changed. A finished story concept also doesn't mean they already had a complete and coherent story written and certainly doesn't mean that they had a finished game.

I've already stated this several times but if we take a closer look on what happened between 2011 and 2013 and also what happened between 2013 and 2014 it's obvious that they had to make some tough decisions. Versus XIII was originally planned to be a standalone FNC spin-off that wasn't meant to become as huge of a project as it has become over time. So huge and with the bad reputation of the "XIII"-name in mind that they internally rebranded it to XV shortly after they revealed the first lenghty ( and only) gameplay section in 2011. With the rebranding and the start of development for the next gen consoles they probably thought it was a good opportunity to expand the "XV" universe even more and build the infamous "world of the versus epic". Something they may have worked on from 2012 ( or even earlier) to at least E3 2013. We don't know what happened from this point to TGS 2014 but something just didn't work out, maybe they couldn't find the staff to work on those XV-spin offs or the whole concept was just a big mess, who knows. However they "officially" scrapped this idea one year later. The major changes were:
-> Tabata is the new sole director
-> XV's story is planned to be told in one game
-> terms like L'Cie are now completely scrapped from the game

Once again we don't know what happened between late summer 2013 and TGS 2014 but the game must have had massive problems and they finally solved them. They're now able to talk about it openly which means they have a clear concept and I'm super happy about that. Everything that has been said before TGS 2014 should be taken with a grain of salt ( which of course doesn't mean that everything from then was a lie and won't be in the final game but as I stated before they obviously didn't have a clear direction up to this point.). Changes are a natural process of game developement and you have to make decisions at some point or it simply won't work.

But you can be sure that from now on they won't make any vague promises for this game anymore. Full promotion is going to kick off very soon.

 

[Lucina]

Prejudice is a great time saver. You can form opinions without having to get the facts.
E. B. White

 

[NemesisSP]

i think xv is very much versus 13. i feel like from 2006 to 2012, all we ever saw was footage ofthe beginning invasion, thats changed. to better allow the movement and flow of the story. we still see the destruction. it will still be an epic sequence.

stella wasnt as important as ppl think, if she was, they would have just continued with luna as stella and never said anything. the story was good this way, so they didnt even bother. and just discarded the name. im not worried

No, Tabata has stated that Versus XIII basically no longer exists and he explicitly mentioned that Stella was apparently too difficult to fit into the plot and that's why she was dropped. And he also explicitly stated that Luna's role is different than Stella, so no, Luna is not Stella. She may have been based on Stella, but she isn't.

And that's another thing I want to mention, just how wasteful this all feels. Tabata isn't a bad director, but he's pretty much wasteful with the stuff that has been cut. We have no idea what the development process is like, but from what we knew, a good portion of the game was finished, including FMV sequences. FMV sequences aren't cheap and if he's gotten rid of certain ones in order to fit in his changes, then that is pretty damn wasteful. He basically just tossed out a large amount of money that will have to be redone to fit Luna and these other new story elements in. And there's his comments that people have deemed misogynistic, like why there isn't a female party member and other problems. To say that he's been controversial is an understatement.

And no, I don't think people will forget this, as I mentioned, there is a petition to bring back these discarded aspects and the only reason I think it probably doesn't have more signatures is because the people behind it aren't actually doing anything to promote it. I think this part will end up as a black mark on Tabata's record and considering that Type-0 HD has received some cricitisms as well and he's not exactly a spotless director, I don't think it'll matter how good the game is, I think people will still probably criticize him for whatever minor sleight, just like every other FF director.

 

[Koozek]

No, Tabata has stated that Versus XIII basically no longer exists and he explicitly mentioned that Stella was apparently too difficult to fit into the plot and that's why she was dropped. And he also explicitly stated that Luna's role is different than Stella, so no, Luna is not Stella. She may have been based on Stella, but she isn't.

And that's another thing I want to mention, just how wasteful this all feels. Tabata isn't a bad director, but he's pretty much wasteful with the stuff that has been cut. We have no idea what the development process is like, but from what we knew, a good portion of the game was finished, including FMV sequences. FMV sequences aren't cheap and if he's gotten rid of certain ones in order to fit in his changes, then that is pretty damn wasteful. He basically just tossed out a large amount of money that will have to be redone to fit Luna and these other new story elements in. And there's his comments that people have deemed misogynistic, like why there isn't a female party member and other problems. To say that he's been controversial is an understatement.

And no, I don't think people will forget this, as I mentioned, there is a petition to bring back these discarded aspects and the only reason I think it probably doesn't have more signatures is because the people behind it aren't actually doing anything to promote it. I think this part will end up as a black mark on Tabata's record and considering that Type-0 HD has received some cricitisms as well and he's not exactly a spotless director, I don't think it'll matter how good the game is, I think people will still probably criticize him for whatever minor sleight, just like every other FF director.

Do some of you crying over the changes actually take into consideration that maaaybe the old story just wasn't good enough and the changes Tabata's team did were for the better? According to the last ATR they rewritten Stella to make her work better as a character in FFXV's story and also they now want to have the story be more self-contained compared to before (even as recently as 2013) where Nomura considered the story to span over several sequels:
"In the trailer, there was a line that read 'A World of the Versus Epic,' which suggests that it will be part of an epic," he acknowledged. "While Final Fantasy XV will have one climax, as a story, we plan to continue it further."

 

[CRIMSON-XIII]

No, Tabata has stated that Versus XIII basically no longer exists and he explicitly mentioned that Stella was apparently too difficult to fit into the plot and that's why she was dropped. And he also explicitly stated that Luna's role is different than Stella, so no, Luna is not Stella. She may have been based on Stella, but she isn't.

And that's another thing I want to mention, just how wasteful this all feels. Tabata isn't a bad director, but he's pretty much wasteful with the stuff that has been cut. We have no idea what the development process is like, but from what we knew, a good portion of the game was finished, including FMV sequences. FMV sequences aren't cheap and if he's gotten rid of certain ones in order to fit in his changes, then that is pretty damn wasteful. He basically just tossed out a large amount of money that will have to be redone to fit Luna and these other new story elements in. And there's his comments that people have deemed misogynistic, like why there isn't a female party member and other problems. To say that he's been controversial is an understatement.

And no, I don't think people will forget this, as I mentioned, there is a petition to bring back these discarded aspects and the only reason I think it probably doesn't have more signatures is because the people behind it aren't actually doing anything to promote it. I think this part will end up as a black mark on Tabata's record and considering that Type-0 HD has received some cricitisms as well and he's not exactly a spotless director, I don't think it'll matter how good the game is, I think people will still probably criticize him for whatever minor sleight, just like every other FF director.

stella was only a small part of the game. the story obviously didnt involve her as much. compared to the dragoon knight woman and the black haired woman who are STILL IN THE GAME. they are the same basic game. the overall story of lucis and niflehiem is more important than the relationship of noctis and stella.

the game will be epic,. dont cry over this small change that is less than a decimal of a percentage of the full game. id rather see what happens with the hooded man and regius and the emperor.

 

[NemesisSP]

stella was only a small part of the game. the story obviously didnt involve her as much. compared to the dragoon knight woman and the black haired woman who are STILL IN THE GAME. they are the same basic game. the overall story of lucis and niflehiem is more important than the relationship of noctis and stella.

the game will be epic,. dont cry over this small change that is less than a decimal of a percentage of the full game. id rather see what happens with the hooded man and regius and the emperor.

How do you know she wasn't important? She was the second character introduced, she was slated to be the heroine and Nomura frequently said that her role was INCREDIBLY important. Just because she was replaced doesn't mean she wasn't important and since Nomura had frequently said she was, I'm gonna go with his word over yours.

Look, you two, if you want to accept these changes, go right ahead. But don't be dicks because some people do have a problem with it. And I do, but I didn't say that it means that it is a bad game. What I am saying is that it's still wasteful and since we don't know anything about these changes, saying they're for the better is pretty dumb, because what if they aren't? What if they make the story a mess? A condensed story always runs the risk of being so, especially when the people who originally worked on it aren't anymore.

 

[CRIMSON-XIII]

How do you know she wasn't important? She was the second character introduced, she was slated to be the heroine and Nomura frequently said that her role was INCREDIBLY important. Just because she was replaced doesn't mean she wasn't important and since Nomura had frequently said she was, I'm gonna go with his word over yours.

Look, you two, if you want to accept these changes, go right ahead. But don't be dicks because some people do have a problem with it. And I do, but I didn't say that it means that it is a bad game. What I am saying is that it's still wasteful and since we don't know anything about these changes, saying they're for the better is pretty dumb, because what if they aren't? What if they make the story a mess? A condensed story always runs the risk of being so, especially when the people who originally worked on it aren't anymore.

you realize they only showed the party sequence and characters involved because thats all the content they had created for versus 13. from 2006 to 2011, there wasnt much. which is why we only saw CGI and some gameplay of insomnia (and a bit of wilderness in 2011). it was always the party sequence and the fighting during the invasion.

if she was that important, they would have named luna stella and not mentioned anything regarding the change in character. think about that. they wouldnt have even bothered saying that. especially with the resemblence visually. but they changed that aspect and kept the real important characters to the story. shown at e3 2013 in the end of the trailer.

 

[NemesisSP]

you realize they only showed the party sequence and characters involved because thats all the content they had created for versus 13. from 2006 to 2011, there wasnt much. which is why we only saw CGI and some gameplay of insomnia (and a bit of wilderness in 2011). it was always the party sequence and the fighting during the invasion.

if she was that important, they would have named luna stella and not mentioned anything regarding the change in character. think about that. they wouldnt have even bothered saying that. especially with the resemblence visually. but they changed that aspect and kept the real important characters to the story. shown at e3 2013 in the end of the trailer.

What are you talking about? How do you KNOW that that was all there was? Are you psychic, do have the ability to know what was going on before this game became FFXV? What makes you think that was all there was to this game? Just because they didn't show all of the game off doesn't mean there wasn't more to it. When it was still Versus XIII, they were obviously going to start making a campaign for it before they decided to make it FFXV, which is what happened, we know that happened. That's why more of the game had not been shown off, because during that time, they were rebranding it. And just because they didn't show more of Stella doesn't mean she was more important. That's what game trailers do, they only show off a bit of the game in order to get you excited and interested in the story and this might be a bit of a newsflash to you, but before Tabata took over, there was an entirely different team that knew what Stella's role was and pointed it out frequently. Just because Tabata removed her doesn't mean she wasn't important, which is what I keep telling you. Tabata removed her because he didn't understand her part in the story, that's all. He didn't want to rewrite it, so he just removed and replaced her with a different character. And I'm not saying Luna isn't based on Stella, but as Tabata said, she's not the same character and doesn't have the same role. Tetsuya Nomura said that Stella was important to the story and since he was the original creator of the game, that's who I trust on this. I do not trust you on and it is telling, that when Nomura was the director still, he still made it clear that Stella was in the game, talking about how she was originally drawn and such. It is in this interview that he mentions her http://finaland.com/?rub=site&page=news&id=4865.

And the black haired woman and dragoon have even less presence than Stella has had and they are still not being talked about even though they are confirmed to be in the game. That doesn't mean anything about their importance, just that they are in the game. That is all.

Give me proof that that was all there was to the game, actual physical proof, then I will consider your point, but otherwise, to say that that was all there was to the game is insane and idiotic. Being secretive about a game does not mean there wasn't more to the game. It was, as I said, the first trailer to what was initially going to be a much larger campaign. Nomura also has mentioned, by the way, that the move to PS4/Xbox One was because the game outgrew the hardware. If there was only one city and the wilderness, that would have not been the case.

 

[Lulcielid]

How do you know she wasn't important? She was the second character introduced, she was slated to be the heroine and Nomura frequently said that her role was INCREDIBLY important. Just because she was replaced doesn't mean she wasn't important and since Nomura had frequently said she was, I'm gonna go with his word over yours.

While she was "important" according to Nomura, its also possible Nomura simply didn´t write her right

Look, you two, if you want to accept these changes, go right ahead. But don't be dicks because some people do have a problem with it.

I fail to see how @CRIMSON-XIII is a dick with his comment, he didn´t replay in any disrespectful way.

And I do, but I didn't say that it means that it is a bad game. What I am saying is that it's still wasteful and since we don't know anything about these changes, saying they're for the better is pretty dumb, because what if they aren't? What if they make the story a mess? A condensed story always runs the risk of being so, especially when the people who originally worked on it aren't anymore.

What if the original had some messy writing in some aspects?. I respect Nomura and Nojima but, for instances Nomura makes KH more (unnecesarily)convoluted, adding more questions with each installment and Nojima wrote FFX-2.5 with Tidus blowing his head. The plot could have been so open for sequels/spin-offs that it´d make difficult for it to stand on its own feet.
As for what you said(in red), the only people that have access and knows about XV´s plot are Tabata, Itamuro, Nojima, Nomura and other people from the DevTeam. If they say that this changes will improve the plot, then i have no reasons for not trusting them, because in the end none of us (unless you´re an insider or part of the DevTeam) has read XV´s plot at all.

 

[NemesisSP]

While she was "important" according to Nomura, its also possible Nomura simply didn´t write her right


I fail to see how @CRIMSON-XIII is a dick with his comment, he didn´t replay in any disrespectful way.


What if the original had some messy writing in some aspects?. I respect Nomura and Nojima but, for instances Nomura makes KH more (unnecesarily)convoluted, adding more questions with each installment and Nojima wrote FFX-2.5 with Tidus blowing his head. The plot could have been so open for sequels/spin-offs that it´d make difficult for it to stand on its own feet.
As for what you said(in red), the only people that have access and knows about XV´s plot are Tabata, Itamuro, Nojima, Nomura and other people from the DevTeam. If they say that this changes will improve the plot, then i have no reasons for not trusting them, because in the end none of us (unless you´re an insider or part of the DevTeam) has read XV´s plot at all.

Telling people to stop crying about something is a pretty dick thing, at least to me. It's basically saying that they have no right to complain. Regardless of whether or not they are, or putting up a discussion. He's being disrespectful by saying that all I'm doing is crying about something and that I don't have any right to my opinion.

And no, I don't know about the develop, that was my point. I can criticize them for doing these things, but that doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. It's my opinion and that's all. If Crimson doesn't believe that Stella was important, that's fine, but Nomura said she was. It doesn't mean he wrote her right or wrong, but because he was the director, that means he still is the one to trust on that.

Tabata might have a point, but so far, there is nothing, as you pointed out, leading us to take his word on it. After all, if we did know about the script, would we still agree with Tabata or think he was full of crap?

 

[Infest]

@NemesisSP
You really need to stop thinking that Tabata is an evil guy that only wants to trash on everything Nomura has worked on. And let's be very clear here. Yes, Tabata is now the sole director of the game but that doesn't mean he can just do whatever he wants. All those decisions are not made by him alone, they're the result of heavy discussions within the development team. Tabata makes the final call but he still can't do whatever he wants if everyone else thinks those decisions are total crap.

I just hate this "finger-pointing at a single person" mentality nowadays. The game is not made by one single person but by several hundred and there's no reason to change things just for the sake of it. As I stated before the game had obviously no clear direction and heavy problems that needed to be solved. There original plan(s) just didn't work out. And they finally solved those problems and we should be happy about the fact that the project is finally a real thing instead of trashing on what it is not.

You will always find those people that will mourn about the scrapped and changed things that Nomura promised us in the versus days even if XV turns out to be an absolutely outstanding game. People just always want what they can't have.

And it's ok to be sceptical about things until we see the final product but it's also not healthy to be overly pesimistic and it's absolutely not fair to already judge the game before it even has the chance to show its true potential. The full promotion for the game will kick off very soon....just be patient!

 

[NemesisSP]

@NemesisSP
You really need to stop thinking that Tabata is an evil guy that only wants to trash on everything Nomura has worked on.

I never said he was evil. Tell me one part where I said he was the devil incarnate? You won't be able to, because I never said that. I said he was a good director, but his decisions aren't always the best. I never said he was evil. There is a difference between thinking someone is an evil asshole who likes to shred up the works of those who came before him and someone who is trying but may have made some bad ideas along the way.

In fact, this wasn't about Tabata, this was about SE's handling of the game in GENERAL and our thoughts on it. It only devolved into it being about Tabata because he is the director and I do feel he wasn't the right choice for this game. He has never made a console game before, Tetsuya Nomura has made many console games and been involved in several of them even when he isn't the director. But I understand that Tabata isn't the sole person responsible for it, but he sure does make it easy to assume so based on how he talks about the game.

 

[CRIMSON-XIII]

Telling people to stop crying about something is a pretty dick thing, at least to me. It's basically saying that they have no right to complain. Regardless of whether or not they are, or putting up a discussion. He's being disrespectful by saying that all I'm doing is crying about something and that I don't have any right to my opinion.

And no, I don't know about the develop, that was my point. I can criticize them for doing these things, but that doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. It's my opinion and that's all. If Crimson doesn't believe that Stella was important, that's fine, but Nomura said she was. It doesn't mean he wrote her right or wrong, but because he was the director, that means he still is the one to trust on that.

Tabata might have a point, but so far, there is nothing, as you pointed out, leading us to take his word on it. After all, if we did know about the script, would we still agree with Tabata or think he was full of crap?

didnt single you out man,. didnt have any negative intent to anyone here when writing my message, just writing it for the sake of writing it about stella. the only explanation i have to them always showing stella and the early scenes and nothing of the dragoon knight of black haired woman is they didnt have much of the game made until 2012. just bits and pieces and tech and R&D. which is why we only saw those few sections over and over again. think about it, the first teaser and its extended battle, the party scene, in different variations leading to the most polished and detailed one in 2011., and the gameplay in the city, during the invasion and a few seconds of it outside. and they combine the cgi of the first trailers, we only ever saw insomnia,

 

[Yause]

No, Tabata has stated that Versus XIII basically no longer exists and he explicitly mentioned that Stella was apparently too difficult to fit into the plot and that's why she was dropped. And he also explicitly stated that Luna's role is different than Stella, so no, Luna is not Stella. She may have been based on Stella, but she isn't.

He's correct on that point. The core team for Final Fantasy XV is totally different, so it's essentially a brand new installment in the series. What they're recycling from Versus XIII are the basic story, universe, and characters, but there are naturally going to be changes to fit the new specifications.

And that's another thing I want to mention, just how wasteful this all feels. Tabata isn't a bad director, but he's pretty much wasteful with the stuff that has been cut. We have no idea what the development process is like, but from what we knew, a good portion of the game was finished, including FMV sequences. FMV sequences aren't cheap and if he's gotten rid of certain ones in order to fit in his changes, then that is pretty damn wasteful. He basically just tossed out a large amount of money that will have to be redone to fit Luna and these other new story elements in.

The FMV was created separately through Square Enix's Visual Works department, so it shouldn't be taken as an indication of overall progress. This was all promotional/pre-production stuff.......attributed to a total of two people (one of whom was Eiji Kitada, who was involved on and off until late 2009).

If this article is true, Versus XIII may not have been in full scale production for long (if at all) before Square Enix pulled the plug. It isn't a decision to take lightly and would more or less be unthinkable if the game had been on the road toward completion.

As for choice of director, much rests on who can get stuff done under the burden of today's development climate and scale. I think some comparison can be drawn to FFXIV, for which the old leadership team was replaced and the project effectively restarted from scratch (while using the Eorzea universe and story as a base to build on).