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Final Fantasy XVI Discussions (TBA)

Discussion in 'Final Fantasy Discussion' started by Skye, Oct 18, 2013.

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  1. Storm

    Storm AVALANCHE Warrior

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    the games have great presentation and content on par to the single-player titles, i wouldn't be surprised if the budget was quite high too.

    using a mainline number certainly would be convenient given the work, and make them more on the spotlight (FFXI is the most profitable title of the series btw).
     
  2. Tornak

    Tornak ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I actually have no idea. Always thought it was weird how they ditched the "Parasite Eve", though, so that would make a lot of sense, especially considering that it's an already existing IP that they adapted (a book, it seems).

    And yeah, it's a really cool mix of fantasy in an urban, horror-oriented setting. I didn't play it much (rather saw my cousin do so, as I was too much of a pussy with horror games when I was a kid), but I always found it fascinating.

    The first two also have Nomura in his prime when it came to artstyle and the designs themselves: [​IMG]
     
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  3. AveryChu

    AveryChu PSICOM Soldier

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    Yeah they kinda did, technically the new IP could be a revival of the series but under a different name, although that's likely wishful thinking on my part.

    While Tabata is a good director from a financial standpoint, I don't really care for anything his done with the exception of XV (and that I find has several major issues).
     
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  4. Tornak

    Tornak ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I kinda feel the same, tbh, even if I like Tabata quite a bit. That's why I really want to see his new IP, as it won't be grounded in a series (like T3B, CC, Type-0 or XV) and it won't be a "fix this fucking mess" kind of job; he will be able to create a whole new universe, set of characters and gameplay mechanics (I wouldn't be surprised if this new IP used a tweaked version of the XV combat system, considering he appears as the creator in that patent).

    Somebody mentioned this before, but a Naughty Dog approach would be great, provided they find a good parternship: Neil and Bruce are really in tune and strong in their respective main fields and it shows. I guess that was sort of the approach with Nomura having co-directors, in a way.
     
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  5. AnGer-dono

    AnGer-dono ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Implying VR will be relevant beyond its overpriced geek-toy status.
     
  6. Hey Everyone

    Hey Everyone ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Idk maybe after the 10-15 years from now when we get Final Fantasy XVI, it might be.
     
  7. AnGer-dono

    AnGer-dono ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Implying Square Enix will be moronic enough to not bring XVI before 2020.
     
  8. Tornak

    Tornak ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I think it was Koozek who quoted a post (in GAF?) that APZ made about how XIV's team (BD5?) had been on a hiring spree for a while for people with not only online, but also SP experience.

    So we could totally be seeing a part of that team working on XVI. If S-E was smart, development on XVI would have started, at the very least, in 2015. That would make next year the game being 3 years into its production, making even a launch possible around that time.

    Tabata's comments on the series' fitness and XV's "make or break" status muddle all of this possible timeline, though. However, in no way do I believe that they would have abandoned the series, so much as it would have probably make them rethink the way they make the mainline titles -especially in regards to the budget/ambition/priorities- and focus on spin-offs and little risks games and systems.
     
  9. Koozek

    Koozek ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Yeah, see:
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Hey Everyone

    Hey Everyone ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Well they got other games they could bring out that already have an audience like
    FFX-3
    Final Fantasy Type-Next
    7 Remake
    VI Remake
    Agni's Philosophy
    Anything XV/Versus related
    Dissidia sequels

    Hell they couldn't come up with something original for Final Fantasy XV, and opted to just use Versus XIII(and poorly use Versus XIII I might add)

    They wouldn't even need to bring out XVI in this generation. Hell it's possible they might sit on it till the next generation(2025), so they can make it an MMO or something.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
  11. AnGer-dono

    AnGer-dono ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Outside of maybe VII:R, none of that will have an audience as big as a proper mainline title. Maybe Agni's Philosophy if they go back and flesh out the universe beyond what's in the trailer and actually MAKE that XVI, but AP proper has little if any audience. It's a well-made trailer, but it is insanely bare-bones and tbh I had to go and look what was in that video again b/c I forgot it all. And frankly, a game made out of an engine showcase is something that irks me to the very core.

    And you know this how...? Unless someone actually spills the beans on what went down with VsXIII and its transition to XV, there's only speculation - though if I had to take a shot in the dark, this repurposing (and by proxy, some of the extensive changes) was mandated from upper echelons at Square Enix and less the result of a lack of creativity.
     
  12. Hey Everyone

    Hey Everyone ShinRa SOLDIER

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    >Outside of maybe VII:R, none of that will have an audience as big as a proper mainline title.
    Why do you say that? The next mainline title has to make it's audience from the ground up, with a new cast of characters who are unknown, a new world, so they are practically starting from scratch.


    >And you know this how...? Unless someone actually spills the beans on what went down with VsXIII and its transition to XV, there's only speculation - though if I had to take a shot in the dark, this repurposing (and by proxy, some of the extensive changes) was mandated from upper echelons at Square Enix and less the result of a lack of creativity.

    Project W that game was apparently supposed to be XV until Versus XIII took it's spot

    Oh and the fact that they took an already established audience of a spin-off title Versus XIII which already had an ingrained audience, tons of trailers and actual demand behind it when that happened to FFIX it was in it's very early conceptual stages, and it was just a spin-off in general, not a spin-off of a mainline title, so changing the name was much easier. Usually with mainline Final Fantasy titles they start from the ground up, they don't take one title and turn it into a mainline one once the public knows about it's name. Hell even FFIX went unnamed XV did not.
     
  13. AnGer-dono

    AnGer-dono ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Sales data. Take a look at the data presented on the site for Final Fantasy on vgsales.wikia.com (http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy) - seems more reliable than VGChartz, albeit being incomplete - and you'll recognize that spin-offs - which, yes, includes the continuations of established games, like X-2 and XIII-2 - generally sold less than their predecessors. Take Final Fantasy XIII (which is the most useful example since its data are near-complete): The main game sold roughly 7.6 million copies, XIII-2 sold about 3.5, effectively slashing its audience in half. Lightning Returns only got to 1.1 million, a third of what XIII-2 and a seventh of what XIII had in sales respectively. Even for XII, the least well-sold mainline title - 5.2 million - its best-selling spin-off, Revenant Wings, only sold a fifth of what the original did. (Granting that jumping platforms from PS2 to DS didn't help - also if you ask why I'm not counting Tactics (WOTL), it's because most of its sales hail from the original PS version and not the retconned PSP version)

    So yes, while your points are something that cannot be denied from a certain perspective, from a sales standpoint, an all-new mainline FF game will likely be more successful than any spin-off or continuation (or continuation of a spin-off).
     
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  14. Hey Everyone

    Hey Everyone ShinRa SOLDIER

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    The problem with most of the continuations are simply them being disappointments or simply outright bad, it's not really about them being sequels that caused sales to dip, it's just the quality of the sequels were a bit questionable apart from X-2 it was good at least the XIII ones no, and for some sequels it has to do with them being on vastly different platforms. The XIII series for instance most fans consider them a dissapointment or just simply crap. X-2 that game does some hate, hell I hear a lot of people that simply didn't like it, but it is a close race between 12, and X-2 though 5.2 million vs 5.95, if X-2 was just a better quality game it might have sold better. Especially since most people I've heard from say that X-2 didn't need to happen, or they were fine with Final Fantasy X's ending and didn't like what they saw with X-2(Also doesn't help when you take most of the characters out and only allow us to play as Yuna, Rikku, and Paine(who almost no one knew at that time).


    Now onto the XIII stuff, people didn't like XIII period, and XIII-2 came out around the time where a Versus XIII trailer(you know the game that people actually wanted came out), hell people were more interested in Versus XIII than XIII because XIII was just one big nope to some fans, it was practically toxic at that point in time XIII-2 was doomed from that point onwards especially when more people were interested in Versus XIII hell people are still interested in Versus XIII now that XV is out that should tell you something about that concept, when the game came out? Yeah it was on some people's worst games lists, so that doesn't helped, especially since it was DOA from the start, it also came out during a time where the FF brand was damaged thanks to XIV 1.0 being the wonder that it was.

    Lightning Returns came out when the PS4 was out, and people didn't like XIII-2 and it was on people's worst games lists hell, some people call the game a slap dash get it over with game, nothing of any substantial quality, hell some people put it on their worst games of 2013 list and it scored worse than the other two. I also have to add that it came out during a time where the Versus XIII hype was at an all time high, no one care about XIII past XIII, hell some people didn't even want XIII-2 and wanted them to just move on the Versus XIII already.

    The spin-offs are a little different, because they are on different system than the mainline titles, so the audience won't be the same, I'm talking about same system, same audiences. Tactics is a little different because it doesn't really tie to anything like Type-Next does, or Dissidia, or X-2 it really is it's own thing set in the World of Ivalice.

    Honestly I get your point, but I think the slump in the sales of Final Fantasy sequels has less to do with them being sequels and more to do with the context surrounding them.

    X-2 took a lot of the characters people liked out like Tidus, Wakka, Lulu, Kimari, and made it so that you could only use Rikku, Yuna, and Paine in the main story mode, and the fact that they were the main focus as opposed to everyone that was in X.
    XIII-2 took out characters that people liked, and it was a game people didn't want, they wanted Versus XIII at that point, and XIII-2 didn't score well in comparison to XIII.
    Lightning Returns was DOA when the Final Fantasy Versus XIII 2013 Trailer hit, and the next gen consoles were sold, not to mention when it came out it didn't even score as less as XIII-2.
     
  15. AnGer-dono

    AnGer-dono ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I won't deny that this is a possibility. However, someone at Square Enix whose job it is to have a final say on future projects will likely only look at the raw numbers, say "direct sequels and spin-offs are no good, make more new games" and that will be the course taken. Accountants and managers are rarely artists, critics and/or fans.
     
  16. Tornak

    Tornak ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Nice. If that were the case, I wonder if Yoshida could be involved in that (considering how busy he should be, a producing role might be a good fit).

    I don't like MMORPGs at all, but I can appreciate what ARR has done to the original XIV and the series in general. So, I'd be pleased if there's a crossover of people that worked on that game and the ones potentially working on XVI.

    I just hope that, should they return to a less modern/contemporary/future aesthetic, the chosen setting is not generic medieval fantasy. You can do much more than that without it feeling modern-ish, like an Ancient Greece inspired story and setting. Although, well, if it's fantasy, medieval FF have always had some uniqueness to them, especially the more modern ones.

    That's literally the first and only mention of Project W I've ever seen.
     
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  17. Koozek

    Koozek ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I've never heard it being referred to as "Project W" either. All I know about the cancelled Western-developed FF is this:

    [​IMG]


    Here are the links from my post:

    In 2012 there was a leak of a new Eidos Montreal game that probably is the same one that was cancelled a year later:
    New Eidos Montreal Game Focuses On An Explorer Searching For A Way To Save His Love

    In 2013 a FF director said in an interview that SE could imagine an Eidos-developed FF game:
    Eidos-developed Final Fantasy possible, says Lighting Returns director

    3 days later an unknown Eidos Montreal game was reported to have been cancelled:
    Unannounced Eidos Montreal game cancelled - Cancelled game said to be connected to Square Enix Japan
     
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  18. Hey Everyone

    Hey Everyone ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I won't deny that, but looking at the fact that the FF7 Remake is multi-part, I would say they are perfectly mine with sequels as long as the game in question is worth making a sequel to, because they probably know hat happened, if Square was looking at raw data only then the FF7 Remake would be a singular title, and a graphics and animation update only, there wouldn't be story updates. Neither would Type-Next even be mentioned in the slightest.
    The accountants if they were to even be doing a half decent job would probably look at the games themselves, and probably think ok in order for sequels to be successful maybe we shouldn't strip our cast down.
    Like in the case with XIII-2 You only play as Noel, and Serah people like Noel but he's too new for the majority of the audience who loved XIII to care about him, Serah was a plot device most of the time, not a character you can use to sell games too.
    I should also add that an accountant will be looking at profitability, not simply raw sales data as raw sales =/= profitability.
    I want to look at FFX-2 vs FFXII for an instance

    "The production team was one third the size of the previous installment. This was because the team was already familiar with the material and it allowed them to give a hand-crafted feel to the game. In designing the game, a significant number of character models, enemies, and location designs from Final Fantasy X were reused. Character designer Tetsuya Nomura has explained that this allowed the game to be developed in one year and at half the normal scope Final Fantasy titles are normally produced" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_X-2#Development

    This is X-2's development it was developed and shipped in 1 year
    XII for instance was developed over the course of 2-3 years, and barely sold much more 5.2(X-2) vs 5.95(XII) Which would probably make an accountant go ok X-2 was more profitable because they can reuse assets, they can develop it in a shorter period of time thus reducing man hours.
     
  19. AnGer-dono

    AnGer-dono ShinRa SOLDIER

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    A single game being multi-part isn't the same as making a sequel. The comparison would be more akin to having a season of a TV show vs. a single movie with a second single movie for the follow-up. Also, such plans can be subjected to changes (though SE Japan is less known for such things, SE's western studios and their properties have been reimagined multiple times in recent history, particular known cases were Just Cause 3, Hitman 2016 and Deus Ex Mankind Divided).
    Except that this is very much not an accountant's job. A manager's job, yes, but even these people will more likely take the shortcut to raking in the dough rather than closely examine the work and make decisions based on that.
     
  20. Tornak

    Tornak ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Just a thing (that really hasn't got much to do what with you're discussing): if I hate FF sequels (apart from them getting the focus away from actual new things) is because how incoherent and half-assed they are (and also how little extra content you can extract from existing FF worlds).

    It's so fucking obvious (especially in the XIII games) how they had not idea of what to do to keep milking the base game to get a bit more of profit. A game originally conceived as a part of a multiple series wouldn't really have the same problem (well, it could, but it's easier to prevent them); same goes for a game (as in, with a cohesive story, characters and gameplay mechanics) that just so happens to be divided into different chunks.

    Anyways, although it's obviously less "salvageable", you can still take advantage of assets, animation loops, AI, textures, effects and such in a totally different game. Still, I feel that with FF, the financial argument is the only thing that sequels have really going for (well, that and the battle systems, but those aren't exclusively restricted to mainline sequels). Every other aspect is not supportive of an excessive sequel approach, as that's known from a hypotetical but also from a practical point of view, as we've seen the result of those games.
     
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