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Final Fantasy XVI Discussions (TBA)

Discussion in 'Final Fantasy Discussion' started by Skye, Oct 18, 2013.

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  1. Lulcielid

    Lulcielid Turk

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    Hard to happen unless the character designer, graphic and art director roles are under the same name.
     
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  2. Tornak

    Tornak ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Yeah, I know. But a stronger collaborative effort in that regard should be feasible (Naora, for example, was the one trying to get Nomura's characters right for XV, right?). Or at least having into account the artistic style of the characters and design the game looks based on them, trying to be as faithful as possible (I'm focusing on them so much because I think world design is usually well represented in FFs).

    Still, I hope they approach XVI in a way where they have a pretty clear vision of the story and the general gameplay mechanics from the beginning.

    It was said in a another thread I think (had been so long gone that only just yesterday read some of the forum's latest posts), but ND's approach (a gameplay director, a creative one) could help a lot provided they're in tune (it must be hard to find another pair like Bruce and Neil, though).
     
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  3. AnGer-dono

    AnGer-dono ShinRa SOLDIER

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    This. Also they should opt to have a clear-cut message that emphasizes them wanting creative control and not wrestle with some Suits in marketing about their vision. Though I'd like to think 2017's Square Enix is different from mid-00's Square Enix and something like Vaan won't ever happen again.
     
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  4. Lulcielid

    Lulcielid Turk

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    Not a bad approach but I also would like them to be more "flexible" and not very stone rigid with it.
     
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  5. Tornak

    Tornak ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I'd like to think that too. To be honest, a big chunk of the last decade and this one have probably been a good lesson for S-E in terms of how to approach the series and console development, and I hope the very deserved criticism of some of XV's aspects resonate with them.

    Sure, there will still be things done by commitee, but hopefully those are kept to a minimum. XV actually took a lot of different risks, so they obviously have a big degree of freedom to toy with ideas. It also has a lot of staple mainstream features, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all those features are bad or anything.

    I just hope that they remember that this is their franchise and that it shouldn't be made to cater to specific audiences just to sell: believe in your product, be weird when you have to and be safe when you honestly believe that's the right call.
    I mean, sure, any kind of creative development should have some degree of flexibility: things constantly change when you craft a story, characters and world, especially when you have to make them fit a certain engine, hardware and timeframe/budget/resources.

    What I want is that they have a clear vision of what they want. Broad strokes of the main scenario and characters, as well as a fixed enough amount of gameplay features. And then, build on that, changing and deviating from the main path when necessary, but not overhauling the whole plot or game concept every now and then.

    Basically, a very strong vision and a good adapted planning, which shouldn't necessarily mean an incredibly fixed, strict and narrow approach. As in, look at FF VII or IX: they both started as very different projects, but eventually took form and they could work on a general (but still pretty specific) scenario and game concept that could fit their schedule (sure, different times and all that jazz, but still). Despite all of that, the games felt very complete for the most part: I feel like XII, XIII and XV didn't have that privilege due to a plethora of problems, according to what we've been told and seen (FF XIII demo, Tabata and Roberto Ferrari comments...) and what we could infer.
     
  6. Storm

    Storm AVALANCHE Warrior

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    after okami i'm a firm believer
     
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  7. BladeRunner

    BladeRunner Chocobo Knight

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    Regarding combat, I have to say in the recent years I came to hate ATB. Either make it true turn-based or go real time. It's a really annoying hybrid to me that doesn't play to the strengths of either system.
     
  8. AnGer-dono

    AnGer-dono ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I know I've said similar things before, but I believe ATB can still go places if they manage to depart from how they utilized it back in the day. Heck, even as Final Fantasy was using ATB, other games like Squaresoft's own Chrono Trigger or Game Arts's Grandia, which expanded on the system by integrating additional functions that made the time-based aspect more strategic - Chrono Trigger had the Combo Arts system, by which the player had to decide to either wait and perform a Combo or use an attack right away; Grandia allowed the player to manipulate the flow of battle through actions such as Critical Attack, Cancel and Defending. Final Fantasy, to its detriment, never incorporated any new approach to ATB until XIII with its segmented Action Bar which was... err... not great.

    Using ATB as just a different form of turn-based combat? Rubbish. Tweaking it to make the time aspect more strategic? Good idea. But yeah, if they can't (or won't) do the latter, they best leave ATB be and focus on other systems (ADBS is, in my opinion, pretty cool - it's passive as hell, but the Gambit system remains the best partner AI system to date).
     
  9. BladeRunner

    BladeRunner Chocobo Knight

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    My main annoyance with ATB comes from having to go through menus in real time. The games punish you if you don't flick through a list of combat options fast enough and it's just stupid. I guess my problem isn't with ATB itself but rather with menu-based combat happening in real time. I actually have the same issue with KH. Maybe if a game used actions mapped to buttons instead I would find it more palatable? But then you would have very limited amount of abilities, though you could work around this by giving the player some switchable presets or something. I know what I'm describing is essentially Lightning Returns, but I haven't actually played it so I don't know if it worked well. The game just doesn't seem very good to me but maybe I'll get around to it one day.

    I guess maybe I was a bit to quick to denounce ATB altogether, but honestly, I just haven't played any game with it that had depth even close to a good turn-based or action system. Chrono Trigger had a cool idea with the combo arts but I think those moves where mostly fun because of their animations, not strategic potential. And by the end of the game it was more efficient to use each characters best moves anyway. X-2 also had an interesting idea with its combo system but... again, it's annoying to use because real time menus.
     
  10. Koozek

    Koozek ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Hehe, and this is why I think LR is the best iteration of the ATB system and my absolute favorite in the series. Snappy, and had the same depth, if not more, than classic FFs - I actually had to macro- and micro-manage my skill sets and equipment for many battles to stand a chance at all, even the smaller mobs, which I never really felt I had to do in older FFs much. Then you also had a limited set of items and the whole limited time thing ala Majora's Mask, which added a lot of tension to the dungeons and battles, especially if you wanted to do every sidequest in just one playthrough in the given time limit. Had a blast with the game regardless of the non-sensical story and characters. There are just a few smaller changes and improvements that would make its combat even better.

    I actually would love if they tried building on that system for FFXVI or so. I once came up with a few ideas over at GAF. In short:
    - Face-buttons for Attack, Defend, Item (then select from list with D-pad while game is paused), Summons etc.
    - For each character You have 2 customizable "Sets" for spells which can be accessed by holding L2/R2 + the according face-button or D-pad-button, so 2 x 8 slots = 16 in total (basically like LR, or actually more like FFXIV, I guess)
    - Everyone acts out the command instantly, your and enemies' attacks can be cancelled in some cases (like FFX-2)
    - If several characters have a full ATB bar you can switch between them with L1/R1 (you could do the same by "Skip Turn" with Triangle in the older FFs) - they don't act until you choose a command (unless you activate Auto-Battle, then the AI would take over for the others)
    - Options-button for quick-access to settings like battle speed, camera or Auto-Battle style (only attack, all-out, etc.)
    - You can also move around the characters during battles like in FFXII or LR (not sure about how this would affect damage done/taken depending on your distance to the enemy - maybe make every attack always connect, or with a rather lax treshold)
    I have a feeling that FFVIIR will be a bit like that. Not as twitch-based and timing-sensitive as FFXV, but still real-time and snappy enough. Or maybe it's straight-up KH, dunno. We'll most likely see in two days :p
     
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  11. APZonerunner

    APZonerunner Network Boss-man Staff Member Administrator Site Staff UFFSite Veteran

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    ATB is good but only when it's done right, I think. Part of the problem with later iterations of ATB is they pile loads of other horse shit systems on top and it makes it a mess. When presented as something 'pure' ATB is far more serviceable, I think.

    At any rate, I think the day of pure ATB or pure turn-based for the core series is done, and I expect 16 to have some take on action mechanics with systems to appease ATB fans, as with FF15.
     
  12. Tornak

    Tornak ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Didn't they (Kitase?) say some years ago something about an idea of a more tactic combat system with a lot of different characters? I swear I remember something like that.

    He was just shooting the shit (like when he asked what would happen if a FF VI remake released without a turn-based system), but I wouldn't be surprised if he was testing the waters: he kinda does that sometimes.
     
  13. APZonerunner

    APZonerunner Network Boss-man Staff Member Administrator Site Staff UFFSite Veteran

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    Dragon Age has this + the real time stuff, to be fair. It just lets you switch characters or lets you pause to issue orders. A DA-esque system would work well for FF - and later-on DA was obviously at least partially influenced by FF12.
     
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  14. Koozek

    Koozek ShinRa SOLDIER

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    "And while Kitase isn't directly overseeing Final Fantasy XV or Kingdom Hearts 3, he also shared his thoughts on how the power of Xbox One and PS4 could improve future Final Fantasy titles, hinting at the possibility of larger battles and bigger parties.

    "We are quite aware of [PS4 & Xbox One's] capabilities and certainly one thing that's going to come up is having battles with a lot more participants involved," he continued. "Having a lot more characters, a lot more things happening, that's one of the things that the new hardware does really well, so to maybe make a battle system for a Final Fantasy game or a future game that fits with that, I think it would be quite good to have more characters for the player to control and more participants in the battle.""

    Rather than pour resources into developing an entirely new Battle System, Square may also adapt systems found in earlier Final Fantasy games for use in future titles.

    "In a way there is stuff from the past that we've done in previous Final Fantasies that may come in handy, that we may adapt or reuse or recreate for a future [title]," Kitase continued.

    "In the first two of the XIII series you had the Paradigm Shift system with AI controlled teammates which lends itself very well to having lots of characters. Or maybe having even deeper customisation, something that harks back to say the Gambit System in Final Fantasy XII. All those kind of ideas, it doesn't necessarily [mean] that something that we've used before is now invalid and can't be used, there's certainly a possibility of taking it and bringing it back. But I think it's going to be those kind of changes that the technology allows that we're going to have to maybe think and adapt for."

     
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  15. wmlk

    wmlk Yevonite

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    He could very well be talking about FFVII. And that comment fits FFVII exactly since it has switchable characters in combat.
     
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  16. BladeRunner

    BladeRunner Chocobo Knight

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    How do you always find relevant quotes/interviews even if they're years old? Do you have some database or something?
     
  17. Koozek

    Koozek ShinRa SOLDIER

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  18. Koozek

    Koozek ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Funny thing is, 4 days after that interview he had another one where he talked about the possibility of a full FFVII remake and made it sound like it's very unlikely to happen. However we know from Nomura himself that the Remake actually has been in development since before the Hashimoto Troll announcement at PSX in December 2014. Now either Kitase was pretending because he didn't want to spoil the surprise or they incidentally only started after those interviews in February of that year^^

    The director of Final Fantasy 7 on the remake everyone wants
    - "You must believe me when I say it would take a lot to happen."

    "I can honestly tell you I would love to do that," he replied. "If you simply ask me if I personally would like to do that, yes I would. Definitely. There's no lie about it. But you must believe me when I say it would take a lot to happen."

    Kitase mentioned "staff availability and budget" as two major barriers to the project being greenlit. This tallies with comments Kitase made in 2010, when he said in order to remake Final Fantasy 7 to the quality of Final Fantasy 13 it would take three or four times longer than it took to develop the divisive PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 game.

    But there's another major barrier to the project being greenlit: Kitase's personal motivation to create it.

    "Even if I casually say I would like to do that, because it would be a huge project I would have to motivate myself to the level that I really am prepared to take on this huge responsibility," he said.

    "I don't know if those three things will happen simultaneously. It has to tick lots of very big boxes. I won't rule out the possibility, but it would take a lot to make it happen.

    "But should I ever take it on, it would have to be the biggest project I've done. My life work. So I would have to be as highly motivated as that to end up with something I'm very happy with. It's a huge thing for me."​
     
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  19. Tornak

    Tornak ShinRa SOLDIER

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    It could (if his words there anything other than just rambling) be FF VII-R, but I honestly think that he would be referring to even more characters (both playable and enemies), because he's specifically talking about PS4 and XBO's power, and switching characters in a group of 3 or 4 in real time isn't something that was that hard to do before. I was actually thinking of a combat system similar to DA and FF XII, like APZ said. It's how I'm currently envision what XVI could be like, especially if it's Ito the one who's directing it.

    Anyways, this is, I think, the most interesting unannounced mainline FF, as XV shook the formula quite a lot in terms of combat and the gaming panorama has changed quite a bit. Who knows the path they're going to choose, but after the first action-based mainline FF, I'm very curious as to what they'll do.

    And not only that, but also in terms of aesthetics. I honestly wouldn't mind them going for a more Western-inspired character design: I want the designs to still be essentially Japanese at their core, but I can't stomach these weird clothes and hairstyles anymore, not when they're going for a more realistic look.
     
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  20. Koozek

    Koozek ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Yeah, basically my thoughts, too. Regarding the combat, I was even thinking something bigger, like The Last Remnant's squad-based system (which, incidentally, was also made by BD5 staff). Really curious about FFXVI, too! I'm expecting it to have a more medieval setting like FFXIV, hopefully with some Steampunk elements so it won't be too plain. Also hoping for more grounded and diverse character designs (more adult characters, and men with beards like Bash and Punished Noctis, please!).
     
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