Final Fantasy XVI - General News Thread

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Storm

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Oct 26, 2013
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Oh, man, fuck yes. It won't happen, his art is very hard to actually translate into 3D (I'm guessing. There's a CG film) and it would look weird to most people, but I would fucking love it.

Actually, if you don't get Amano back, make the new character and world designers adapt to his style. There are actually quite a few approaches to his style, so it's not even limiting.

There's a New Year's greeting card (I think? Can't find it for the life of me) that Koozek posted some time ago (again, I think?) that featured a female character that looked similar enough in style and clothing to FF VI characters. I hope that's their next style.
after okami i'm a firm believer
 
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Jun 7, 2014
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Regarding combat, I have to say in the recent years I came to hate ATB. Either make it true turn-based or go real time. It's a really annoying hybrid to me that doesn't play to the strengths of either system.
 
Regarding combat, I have to say in the recent years I came to hate ATB. Either make it true turn-based or go real time. It's a really annoying hybrid to me that doesn't play to the strengths of either system.
I know I've said similar things before, but I believe ATB can still go places if they manage to depart from how they utilized it back in the day. Heck, even as Final Fantasy was using ATB, other games like Squaresoft's own Chrono Trigger or Game Arts's Grandia, which expanded on the system by integrating additional functions that made the time-based aspect more strategic - Chrono Trigger had the Combo Arts system, by which the player had to decide to either wait and perform a Combo or use an attack right away; Grandia allowed the player to manipulate the flow of battle through actions such as Critical Attack, Cancel and Defending. Final Fantasy, to its detriment, never incorporated any new approach to ATB until XIII with its segmented Action Bar which was... err... not great.

Using ATB as just a different form of turn-based combat? Rubbish. Tweaking it to make the time aspect more strategic? Good idea. But yeah, if they can't (or won't) do the latter, they best leave ATB be and focus on other systems (ADBS is, in my opinion, pretty cool - it's passive as hell, but the Gambit system remains the best partner AI system to date).
 
Jun 7, 2014
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I know I've said similar things before, but I believe ATB can still go places if they manage to depart from how they utilized it back in the day. Heck, even as Final Fantasy was using ATB, other games like Squaresoft's own Chrono Trigger or Game Arts's Grandia, which expanded on the system by integrating additional functions that made the time-based aspect more strategic - Chrono Trigger had the Combo Arts system, by which the player had to decide to either wait and perform a Combo or use an attack right away; Grandia allowed the player to manipulate the flow of battle through actions such as Critical Attack, Cancel and Defending. Final Fantasy, to its detriment, never incorporated any new approach to ATB until XIII with its segmented Action Bar which was... err... not great.

Using ATB as just a different form of turn-based combat? Rubbish. Tweaking it to make the time aspect more strategic? Good idea. But yeah, if they can't (or won't) do the latter, they best leave ATB be and focus on other systems (ADBS is, in my opinion, pretty cool - it's passive as hell, but the Gambit system remains the best partner AI system to date).
My main annoyance with ATB comes from having to go through menus in real time. The games punish you if you don't flick through a list of combat options fast enough and it's just stupid. I guess my problem isn't with ATB itself but rather with menu-based combat happening in real time. I actually have the same issue with KH. Maybe if a game used actions mapped to buttons instead I would find it more palatable? But then you would have very limited amount of abilities, though you could work around this by giving the player some switchable presets or something. I know what I'm describing is essentially Lightning Returns, but I haven't actually played it so I don't know if it worked well. The game just doesn't seem very good to me but maybe I'll get around to it one day.

I guess maybe I was a bit to quick to denounce ATB altogether, but honestly, I just haven't played any game with it that had depth even close to a good turn-based or action system. Chrono Trigger had a cool idea with the combo arts but I think those moves where mostly fun because of their animations, not strategic potential. And by the end of the game it was more efficient to use each characters best moves anyway. X-2 also had an interesting idea with its combo system but... again, it's annoying to use because real time menus.
 
Oct 19, 2013
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My main annoyance with ATB comes from having to go through menus in real time. The games punish you if you don't flick through a list of combat options fast enough and it's just stupid. I guess my problem isn't with ATB itself but rather with menu-based combat happening in real time. I actually have the same issue with KH. Maybe if a game used actions mapped to buttons instead I would find it more palatable? But then you would have very limited amount of abilities, though you could work around this by giving the player some switchable presets or something. I know what I'm describing is essentially Lightning Returns, but I haven't actually played it so I don't know if it worked well. The game just doesn't seem very good to me but maybe I'll get around to it one day.

I guess maybe I was a bit to quick to denounce ATB altogether, but honestly, I just haven't played any game with it that had depth even close to a good turn-based or action system. Chrono Trigger had a cool idea with the combo arts but I think those moves where mostly fun because of their animations, not strategic potential. And by the end of the game it was more efficient to use each characters best moves anyway. X-2 also had an interesting idea with its combo system but... again, it's annoying to use because real time menus.
Hehe, and this is why I think LR is the best iteration of the ATB system and my absolute favorite in the series. Snappy, and had the same depth, if not more, than classic FFs - I actually had to macro- and micro-manage my skill sets and equipment for many battles to stand a chance at all, even the smaller mobs, which I never really felt I had to do in older FFs much. Then you also had a limited set of items and the whole limited time thing ala Majora's Mask, which added a lot of tension to the dungeons and battles, especially if you wanted to do every sidequest in just one playthrough in the given time limit. Had a blast with the game regardless of the non-sensical story and characters. There are just a few smaller changes and improvements that would make its combat even better.

I actually would love if they tried building on that system for FFXVI or so. I once came up with a few ideas over at GAF. In short:
- Face-buttons for Attack, Defend, Item (then select from list with D-pad while game is paused), Summons etc.
- For each character You have 2 customizable "Sets" for spells which can be accessed by holding L2/R2 + the according face-button or D-pad-button, so 2 x 8 slots = 16 in total (basically like LR, or actually more like FFXIV, I guess)
- Everyone acts out the command instantly, your and enemies' attacks can be cancelled in some cases (like FFX-2)
- If several characters have a full ATB bar you can switch between them with L1/R1 (you could do the same by "Skip Turn" with Triangle in the older FFs) - they don't act until you choose a command (unless you activate Auto-Battle, then the AI would take over for the others)
- Options-button for quick-access to settings like battle speed, camera or Auto-Battle style (only attack, all-out, etc.)
- You can also move around the characters during battles like in FFXII or LR (not sure about how this would affect damage done/taken depending on your distance to the enemy - maybe make every attack always connect, or with a rather lax treshold)
I have a feeling that FFVIIR will be a bit like that. Not as twitch-based and timing-sensitive as FFXV, but still real-time and snappy enough. Or maybe it's straight-up KH, dunno. We'll most likely see in two days :p
 

APZonerunner

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Regarding combat, I have to say in the recent years I came to hate ATB. Either make it true turn-based or go real time. It's a really annoying hybrid to me that doesn't play to the strengths of either system.
ATB is good but only when it's done right, I think. Part of the problem with later iterations of ATB is they pile loads of other horse shit systems on top and it makes it a mess. When presented as something 'pure' ATB is far more serviceable, I think.

At any rate, I think the day of pure ATB or pure turn-based for the core series is done, and I expect 16 to have some take on action mechanics with systems to appease ATB fans, as with FF15.
 

Tornak

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Didn't they (Kitase?) say some years ago something about an idea of a more tactic combat system with a lot of different characters? I swear I remember something like that.

He was just shooting the shit (like when he asked what would happen if a FF VI remake released without a turn-based system), but I wouldn't be surprised if he was testing the waters: he kinda does that sometimes.
 

APZonerunner

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Didn't they (Kitase?) say some years ago something about an idea of a more tactic combat system with a lot of different characters? I swear I remember something like that.

He was just shooting the shit (like when he asked what would happen if a FF VI remake released without a turn-based system), but I wouldn't be surprised if he was testing the waters: he kinda does that sometimes.
Dragon Age has this + the real time stuff, to be fair. It just lets you switch characters or lets you pause to issue orders. A DA-esque system would work well for FF - and later-on DA was obviously at least partially influenced by FF12.
 
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Oct 19, 2013
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Didn't they (Kitase?) say some years ago something about an idea of a more tactic combat system with a lot of different characters? I swear I remember something like that.

He was just shooting the shit (like when he asked what would happen if a FF VI remake released without a turn-based system), but I wouldn't be surprised if he was testing the waters: he kinda does that sometimes.
"And while Kitase isn't directly overseeing Final Fantasy XV or Kingdom Hearts 3, he also shared his thoughts on how the power of Xbox One and PS4 could improve future Final Fantasy titles, hinting at the possibility of larger battles and bigger parties.

"We are quite aware of [PS4 & Xbox One's] capabilities and certainly one thing that's going to come up is having battles with a lot more participants involved," he continued. "Having a lot more characters, a lot more things happening, that's one of the things that the new hardware does really well, so to maybe make a battle system for a Final Fantasy game or a future game that fits with that, I think it would be quite good to have more characters for the player to control and more participants in the battle.""

Rather than pour resources into developing an entirely new Battle System, Square may also adapt systems found in earlier Final Fantasy games for use in future titles.

"In a way there is stuff from the past that we've done in previous Final Fantasies that may come in handy, that we may adapt or reuse or recreate for a future [title]," Kitase continued.

"In the first two of the XIII series you had the Paradigm Shift system with AI controlled teammates which lends itself very well to having lots of characters. Or maybe having even deeper customisation, something that harks back to say the Gambit System in Final Fantasy XII. All those kind of ideas, it doesn't necessarily [mean] that something that we've used before is now invalid and can't be used, there's certainly a possibility of taking it and bringing it back. But I think it's going to be those kind of changes that the technology allows that we're going to have to maybe think and adapt for."

 

wmlk

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Sep 5, 2014
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He could very well be talking about FFVII. And that comment fits FFVII exactly since it has switchable characters in combat.
 
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Jun 7, 2014
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"And while Kitase isn't directly overseeing Final Fantasy XV or Kingdom Hearts 3, he also shared his thoughts on how the power of Xbox One and PS4 could improve future Final Fantasy titles, hinting at the possibility of larger battles and bigger parties.

"We are quite aware of [PS4 & Xbox One's] capabilities and certainly one thing that's going to come up is having battles with a lot more participants involved," he continued. "Having a lot more characters, a lot more things happening, that's one of the things that the new hardware does really well, so to maybe make a battle system for a Final Fantasy game or a future game that fits with that, I think it would be quite good to have more characters for the player to control and more participants in the battle.""

Rather than pour resources into developing an entirely new Battle System, Square may also adapt systems found in earlier Final Fantasy games for use in future titles.

"In a way there is stuff from the past that we've done in previous Final Fantasies that may come in handy, that we may adapt or reuse or recreate for a future [title]," Kitase continued.

"In the first two of the XIII series you had the Paradigm Shift system with AI controlled teammates which lends itself very well to having lots of characters. Or maybe having even deeper customisation, something that harks back to say the Gambit System in Final Fantasy XII. All those kind of ideas, it doesn't necessarily [mean] that something that we've used before is now invalid and can't be used, there's certainly a possibility of taking it and bringing it back. But I think it's going to be those kind of changes that the technology allows that we're going to have to maybe think and adapt for."

How do you always find relevant quotes/interviews even if they're years old? Do you have some database or something?
 
Oct 19, 2013
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Likes: Tornak
Oct 19, 2013
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He could very well be talking about FFVII. And that comment fits FFVII exactly since it has switchable characters in combat.
Funny thing is, 4 days after that interview he had another one where he talked about the possibility of a full FFVII remake and made it sound like it's very unlikely to happen. However we know from Nomura himself that the Remake actually has been in development since before the Hashimoto Troll announcement at PSX in December 2014. Now either Kitase was pretending because he didn't want to spoil the surprise or they incidentally only started after those interviews in February of that year^^

The director of Final Fantasy 7 on the remake everyone wants
- "You must believe me when I say it would take a lot to happen."

"I can honestly tell you I would love to do that," he replied. "If you simply ask me if I personally would like to do that, yes I would. Definitely. There's no lie about it. But you must believe me when I say it would take a lot to happen."

Kitase mentioned "staff availability and budget" as two major barriers to the project being greenlit. This tallies with comments Kitase made in 2010, when he said in order to remake Final Fantasy 7 to the quality of Final Fantasy 13 it would take three or four times longer than it took to develop the divisive PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 game.

But there's another major barrier to the project being greenlit: Kitase's personal motivation to create it.

"Even if I casually say I would like to do that, because it would be a huge project I would have to motivate myself to the level that I really am prepared to take on this huge responsibility," he said.

"I don't know if those three things will happen simultaneously. It has to tick lots of very big boxes. I won't rule out the possibility, but it would take a lot to make it happen.

"But should I ever take it on, it would have to be the biggest project I've done. My life work. So I would have to be as highly motivated as that to end up with something I'm very happy with. It's a huge thing for me."​
 
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Tornak

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It could (if his words there anything other than just rambling) be FF VII-R, but I honestly think that he would be referring to even more characters (both playable and enemies), because he's specifically talking about PS4 and XBO's power, and switching characters in a group of 3 or 4 in real time isn't something that was that hard to do before. I was actually thinking of a combat system similar to DA and FF XII, like APZ said. It's how I'm currently envision what XVI could be like, especially if it's Ito the one who's directing it.

Anyways, this is, I think, the most interesting unannounced mainline FF, as XV shook the formula quite a lot in terms of combat and the gaming panorama has changed quite a bit. Who knows the path they're going to choose, but after the first action-based mainline FF, I'm very curious as to what they'll do.

And not only that, but also in terms of aesthetics. I honestly wouldn't mind them going for a more Western-inspired character design: I want the designs to still be essentially Japanese at their core, but I can't stomach these weird clothes and hairstyles anymore, not when they're going for a more realistic look.
 
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Oct 19, 2013
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It could (if his words there anything other than just rambling) be FF VII-R, but I honestly think that he would be referring to even more characters (both playable and enemies), because he's specifically talking about PS4 and XBO's power, and switching characters in a group of 3 or 4 in real time isn't something that was that hard to do before. I was actually thinking of a combat system similar to DA and FF XII, like APZ said. It's how I'm currently envision what XVI could be like, especially if it's Ito the one who's directing it.

Anyways, this is, I think, the most interesting unannounced mainline FF, as XV shook the formula quite a lot in terms of combat and the gaming panorama has changed quite a bit. Who knows the path they're going to choose, but after the first action-based mainline FF, I'm very curious as to what they'll do.

And not only that, but also in terms of aesthetics. I honestly wouldn't mind them going for a more Western-inspired character design: I want the designs to still be essentially Japanese at their core, but I can't stomach these weird clothes and hairstyles anymore, not when they're going for a more realistic look.
Yeah, basically my thoughts, too. Regarding the combat, I was even thinking something bigger, like The Last Remnant's squad-based system (which, incidentally, was also made by BD5 staff). Really curious about FFXVI, too! I'm expecting it to have a more medieval setting like FFXIV, hopefully with some Steampunk elements so it won't be too plain. Also hoping for more grounded and diverse character designs (more adult characters, and men with beards like Bash and Punished Noctis, please!).
 
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Tornak

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Yeah, basically my thoughts, too. Regarding the combat, I was even thinking something bigger, like The Last Remnant's squad-based system (which, incidentally, was also made by BD5 staff). Really curious about FFXVI, too! I'm expecting it to have a more medieval setting like FFXIV, hopefully with some Steampunk elements so it won't be too plain. Also hoping for more grounded and diverse character designs (more adult characters, and men with beards like Bash and Punished Noctis, please!).
Yeah, that's a good example! I didn't play it, but if if what I remember of that game is correct, I was picturing something like that. A war-oriented FF, with a less modern or futuristic setting (be it Classic era, Middle-Ages, Prehistoric times... or something entirely different) with a fair amount of those unique elements that all FFs have is what I need (VIII has my favourite setting (then, IX), but I could use less advanced worlds for a while).

And indeed: old Noctis is, imo, the best designed main character of the entire series, BY FAR. And he's still a model with a weird hairstyle, so it's not like they went for a grizzled middle-age bearded man to cater to Western tastes. All you had to do was take Noctis' design and give him non-embarrasing clothes and a hairstyle that's realistic enough and not too ridiculous, as the face is practically the same, beyond the beard. Such a shame that this design is wasted like that, if you ask me; Naora did a great job there (and with older Gladio and Ignis, if that was him too).

Hell, Nomura (beyond the, imo, quite flawed default versions of the bros) and Ferrari did a great job overall, barring some silly things in some characters (Cidney's clothes, Ardyn's stupid wing...), so I'd want more of that: the older bros, Cor, Aranea, Luna, both Regis, both Clarus... look pretty good. I'm sure they can make their main characters more like them, while still being young and appealing for both Japanese and Western audiences.
 
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Hey Everyone

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I don't think we are going to see Final Fantasy XVI until 9th generation
My console timeframe
Well the PS4 Pro came out in November 2016
Xbox One Scorpio is coming November to December this year I suspect they would want to give these "new" consoles about a 5-6 year lifespan, I'm going to use the Xbox Scorpio as a reference point.
(2018(I'm starting with 2018 because that is practically the closest to a full year), 2018+6 = 2024, and that is assuming there won't be another iteration of the PlayStation 4, and Xbox One, because if their is, then this generation could easily extend to 2027 before we get the PlayStation 5.

My SE time frame(This is mainly KH and FF)
Kingdom Hearts 3(March 2018)
FF7 Remake Part 1(June 2018)
Final Fantasy Type-Next(2019)
Final Fantasy X-3(2019)
FF7 Remake Part 2( 2019-2020)
Final Fantasy XV-2/Versus XV-1(?)(2019-2021)
FF7 Remake Part 3(2021-2022)
Final Fantasy XV-3(?)/Versus XV-2(?)(2022)
Final Fantasy XV-4(?)/Versus XV-3(?)(2023)
Final Fantasy XVI-1(2025)
Final Fantasy XVI-2(2027)
Final Fantasy XVI-3(2029)
A FFXVII might be a trilogy as well, but I'm not too sure

Dissida FF Console/PC Port(2017-early 2018)
I could also see Final Fantasy XV sequels/prequels( whether it be a Versus XV trilogy, or something else entirely) being a test bed for a more improved version of Luminous Engine, so it can be made ready for Final Fantasy XVI.

My predictions for Final Fantasy XVI:
They will make a trilogy out of it like Final Fantasy XIII
The combat will be real time action based like Final Fantasy XV
Directed by Ito or Tabata
Platforms: Steam, and the Next PlayStation obviously, not to sure about Xbox, or Nintendo though.
 

Tornak

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Tabata, after taking a big break (while supervising the DLC efforts), is apparently tackling on a new IP, so I wouldn't expect him on XVI or Type-1 (beyond, maybe, a producing role or a "special thanks" mention).

Out of the big names of the series right now, it's between Ito and Toriyama. If god wants to further torture us, Toriyama is the one, although I feel that, if Ito is ever going to do something this big again, it's going to be with XVI. Regardless of that, he will still be the director candidate with the biggest talent and knowledge of the company (Kitase isn't directing anymore, it seems, and he's got some big messes in the latest years).

I also really doubt they're, again, making trilogies out of their games. Or, at least, I would totally hate it: they don't know how to make sequels (if they plan them from the beginning, it might be different, but I doubt it) and I absolutely abhor the idea of a mainline FF having sequels. I'm very tired of seeing the same fucking characters for a decade and not having anything different to look forward to in the series (to a point where I wouldn't have minded that Versus XIII (my most anticipated game of all time) had been cancelled and replaced with a 100% different game that would take the XV mantle).

In regards to dates, I totally see agree with the ones for Dissidia, KH and FF VII-R, but I feel that the XVI one is incredibly conservative. Although I guess it all depends on when they started developing this. In a normal situation and in a normal company, it would have been some years ago, concurrently with XV (with another big team, like the one behind XIV); but, for all we know, they might have just started with it. I don't think this is going to be released after, say, 2022.

And man, FF Versus XV ain't happening. And no way that soon, anyways.
 
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They need to put it out as soon as possible, early 2020 would be ideal. This brand doesn't need a repetition of the 7th gen, but by all means, if they drag out XV longer than a year and try to play appeasement with the FF VII Remake and teasing FF X-3 (a horrible idea) without showing something new in the works soon, it will be just that.

I have some ideas for XVI in the back of my mind, incidentally, probably will share them later today.
 
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Tornak

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They need to put it out as soon as possible, early 2020 would be ideal. This brand doesn't need a repetition of the 7th gen, but by all means, if they drag out XV longer than a year and try to play appeasement with the FF VII Remake and teasing FF X-3 (a horrible idea) without showing something new in the works soon, it will be just that.

I have some ideas for XVI in the back of my mind, incidentally, probably will share them later today.
Yep! FF has always been my favourite series not only because of the games themselves, but also because of how different these games would be comparatively. If I didn't like "x" that much, at least, in a timely manner, I could be playing a different one.

I surely don't expect the same kind of development timeframe for current titles, as things have obviously gotten much more complex and slower. But I can't see how, now that old ghosts such as FF Vs XIII/XV, FF XIV and FF XIII are behind, they couldn't get into an ongoing schedule where mainline titles could be released every 3 or 4 years (having them being developed concurrently would make that possible). That's why I despise the XIII trilogy as much as I do: they're alright games (with some great things such as core lore concepts, music or battle systems), but we've been since 2006 with the same characters, world and general gameplay mechanics, as XV was essentially announced back then: ever since XII itself, they haven't been able to have normal development cycles, and that incidentally creates an unnecessary fatigue sensation.

Now that FF VII-R is in the equation, I'm not so sure of how things might go from now on. And yes, share those XVI ideas! Speculating can be fun.