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Lightning Returns *SPOILERS* thread

Discussion in 'Final Fantasy Discussion' started by Fleur, Nov 22, 2013.

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  1. Fleur

    Fleur Red Wings Commander

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    It's about time someone knocks up a spoiler thread for the game, seeing as a few of us have already been discussing the ending to the game in the other thread, cluttering it up with spoiler tags.

    If mods permit, we will use this thread to discuss plot points and the ending to the game. I was thinking of a thread with unmarked spoilers, but someone who does not wish to be spoiled can always accidentally click their way into this thread. For the time being, let's stick to spoiler tagging our posts in here.

    Additionally, perhaps it may help to structure our sentences and spoiler tagging placements in a particular way. Posts that have no visible context apart from a spoiler tag like this:

    "Lightning is finally revealed to be a piece of smartphone operating system software called Android 2.1 Eclair, which was inexplicably given life and a physical form thanks to a combination of Bhunivelze, aka Andy Rubin and Google Inc."

    can be about ANYTHING to do with the plot. How would anyone know which part it is referring to unless they reveal the spoiler content? It may be a spoiler about a particular part of the game that they have yet to reach or see. So rather than doing that, something like this would be more considerate and appropriate:

    "Regarding the ending sequence of the game:
    So Commander Shepard doesn't even have a choice and just blindly accepts what the God Child says, leading to flashes of either blue, red or green? WORST ENDING EVER.
    "

    Okay, let's do it people.

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    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
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  2. Nikolasvanitas

    Nikolasvanitas PSICOM Soldier

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    I am just gonna post my opinion here,I dont want to cause any arguments,so please understand that this is just an opinion about the game and my aim is not to offend fans of the FF13 series,especially since I have played the other 2 games

    With all due respect to the FF XIII fans the ending of LR-FF XII is by far the strangest thing I have seen in the series and the square enix games.
    Its not the worst in the case of Jrpgs but for a series like FF that ending is absolutely out of place.
    Some of the actions and cutscenes/dresses in the game are really awkward and embarrassing especially to Lightning,who they tried so hard to establish as a stoic heroic female protagonist,just seeing her in some of the outfits in the game doing the slutty victory poses was disappointing.
    Also the NPCs wearing ridiculous hats/glasses from the adornments of the FF XIII-2 monsters made them look ridiculous,especially because the size of the adornments was bigger than their heads.

    On the other hand I would encourage the loyal fans of this series to play this game,the gameplay and exploration are fun and I think that they did a really good job in those departments,also I really liked the designs of the new monsters,they look like Dark Souls/FFXII style of monsters.
    Additionally I liked the design of the weapons and the option to equip different types of swords/staffs/spears and shields all with different stats,abilites and amazing decorations completely different from the awkward style of the dresses.

    To conclude I believe that the hardcore FF13 community must be the most satisfied fans in the series,they got a trilogy which is something new to FF games but I hope that in the future the developers will remember the old recipe of one unique mainline final fantasy ,with new characters/world and plot which is different from the past entries
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
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  3. Ehren

    Ehren The Sunflower Knight Moderator Site Staff

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    I was, quite personally, disappointed with the twist at the very end. I enjoyed what I saw of the game right up to that point though, the ending was really cool and had plot references to older games like V and VII. The last little bit really dampened my excitement though, and while I'll still get the game and enjoy playing it I will probably skip that last part.
     
  4. Fleur

    Fleur Red Wings Commander

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    So, for anyone who has already seen or read up on the ending of the game (Lightning Returns AND Xenoblade spoilers ahoy):

    Bunnybelts is defeated after Lightning fights her in space. Fighting a God in space. Just like Xenoblade. I thought his crystallising body was hurled into the sun, but it looks like he is just lying down dead somewhere in the dark, while Caius confronts Noel. Didn't get what that was about, and why, but as the main characters depart to use the power of the crystals to create a new world, Caius hands Yeul to Noel. We see the Solar System. Then we see Earth.

    Lightning gets off a train. Flanders poppies. French signs. Probably France. If not, Flanders, Belgium, but everyone knows that Flanders is full of WW1 bomb craters. She's actually dressed like a normal person, and steps out to gaze at a beautiful French countryside on a cheery afternoon, preparing to attend Snow's and Serah's wedding. And for some reason, we don't see what has become of everyone else. I suppose the CGI budget ran out there, so the later Ultimania book will probably be covering that instead of actually showing it in the game. But oh well. Toriyama had to end with a smiling Lightning there, to utterly and unambiguously let us know that she is happy, even though adjusting to such a radically different world can't be easy. And once again, like Xenoblade.

    Overall, it's a very anime-like ending. And it works. It is coherent with the whole theme of sticking it to the Gods and forging one's own fate, even though that is such a massively-abused trope and plot point in Japanese storytelling now. We all at this point had to expect a final, conclusive happy ending for everyone, this time without having two of the main characters stuck in crystal somewhere. That being said, it's still dumb. I called Xenoblade out on its "beat-up-God-and-forge-a-new-world" plot point, and I will also call out Lightning Returns for doing this. It sounds ridiculous to imagine all of this from the very beginning of the Hanging Edge up to Lightning in an idyllic rural region of our world's France or wherever, but there you go. Maybe if Toriyama and Watanabe didn't explicitly make the new world Earth, and kept it ambiguous enough like Xenoblade (which from I understand, is just a new world and not necessarily the old real Earth that Zanza destroyed), I'll find it a wee bit more palatable, but then again, I've never personally held much hope for this game's storyline and storytelling anyway. It was always about the gameplay and the explorable world.

    I think we can safely rule out any idea of "Earth" being Noctis's world. =P

    Well, when I say "Earth", I mean our planet with a messed-up Europe geographically:

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    And some screens from the last sequence:

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    -------------------------------

    It would certainly be nice not to be saddled with the thought of a trilogy per gen, especially for people who aren't fans of it in particular.

    In terms of development nowadays, unless they've mastered the art of Ubisoft slave labour in the many thousands and a conveyer belt factory system, they're not going to feasibly produce all these assets and a whole world with its own lore for just one game and leave it be. RPGs take enough time to make as they do, and Japan is extra-slow and inefficient compared to its counterparts in BioWare, CD Projekt, etc. If they do aspire to produce more direct sequels, they can - and I think they will increasingly become the norm and not the exception - but it shouldn't be at the expense of another numbered game. I'm hoping that the PS4 and Xbox One will at least have a FFXVI to go along with Nomura's Versus Epic.
     
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  5. Ehren

    Ehren The Sunflower Knight Moderator Site Staff

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    All righty. Here's a large number of very spoilery shots from the ending- I took the liberty of going through by-frame and picking out the clearest important bits, although I forgot to take a shot or two from the beginning of it. Please note this is just part one of many, as I took a lot of shots and there are some restrictions on the site for how many pictures you can put in one post.

    Sorry for the triple spoiler,.
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  6. Ehren

    Ehren The Sunflower Knight Moderator Site Staff

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    Second batch below the triple-spoiler.
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  7. Ehren

    Ehren The Sunflower Knight Moderator Site Staff

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    Final set for the time being.
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  8. Storm

    Storm AVALANCHE Warrior

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    I admit its a bit weird, but it is confirmed that is Earth? Well, it could be a similar planet.

    Either way, I like to view this epilogue as symbolic rather than literal.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  9. Fleur

    Fleur Red Wings Commander

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    I just find it funny that a world without ANY divine entity whatsoever (because they've all been killed), where humans are free to dictate their own fates, would be portrayed as our Earth. Yeah, I know no one really flat says this is Earth or this is France, but the hints are there so that we can easily infer it, but by doing this, the writers are telling us that in our world, or a perfect world, God shouldn't/doesn't exist. =P
     
  10. Mateus.E

    Mateus.E Stiltzkin's Apprentice

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    Well,I was rather flushed because I spent months cogitating on possible twists...and well,some of them didn't happen.But the Lumina one did,according to this.She indeed faded back into Lightning...http://tensai-shoujo.tumblr.com/post/67829284472/lumina.And Lightning finally recognized and accepted her former self.Looks like Hope aided her...
    Well,that chaos Yeul theory was rather dumb,so I wasn't surprised it was wrong.

    Well,I got ample compensation,though,thanks to Lumina.Bhunivelze,though was rather disappointing,compared to Caius.Ahh,if that misunderstanding I had of him being manipulating Hope from the start or middle of the trilogy was right,instead of just possessing him now on the end,he would have been a fucking antagonist,in my opinion.Oh well,spilled milk.Bhuni can still have some usefulness.Looks like he is mightly impossible.Well,we will see about that in feb.

    Bhuni chose Hope as his vessel,because he had a strong and noble soul.Because he loves purity,he made Hope return to be a child.Because he thinks emotions are garbage,he has been torturing him for 169 years,to condition him into becoming a perfect emotionless vessel.By endgame I supposed he finally dumped his soul and possessed his body.He chose Lightning not only as the savior,but also,supposedly,as a new Godess of Death,who could see and guide souls,while he couldn't.Some god he is.He tried to dump her emotions,too bad they were too strong for him...and they even managed to one up him,thanks to Lumina..http://tensai-shoujo.tumblr.com/post/67826237675/bhunivelzes-true-plan

    Also,the earth thing....I checked that image,and it is preposterous.That africa some dumb fan drew includes sea areas,and that europe drawing considers some land to be sea.Well,it is ridiculous...It could be XV's world,though...
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
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  11. UNKLE

    UNKLE Yevonite

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    What a stupid ending still FF13-1 ending was perfect/pretty great.Where is snow and the others?
     
  12. vagrant_soul

    vagrant_soul Stiltzkin's Apprentice

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    Hope can't seem to catch a break, even from god:p( Japan, I better get some yaoi doujins of Hope getting tortured for my three month wait!):cookie:
     
  13. Kagari

    Kagari 神羅カンパニー社長 Staff Member Administrator Site Staff

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    I made this video with music from G Gundam timed to part of the ending video:
    If you don't know G Gundam or don't get the reference then.... :( I am sad for you.
     
  14. Squirrel Emperor

    Squirrel Emperor Nuts Staff Member Moderator

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    Personally... I'm surprised she's not getting out of a taxi in front of Toriyama's house.
     
  15. ImminentBread

    ImminentBread Balamb Garden Freshman

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    Well. That was... interesting. I must say, I'm more hyped than ever now to actually play the game.
    In regard to the ending:
    In hindsight, all that talk about linking the game's world with the real world was actually a really huge hint for it, if that really is Earth.
     
  16. Somber

    Somber PSICOM Soldier

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    Though the chances are very low, Lightning has 1% to appear in XV :D
     
  17. mincci

    mincci Balamb Garden Freshman

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    I felt that the ending was like a mixture of
    FFX (the summons)
    FFVII (those lifestream looking soul stream things)
    KH ("my friends are my power!" kinda)
    Fullmetal Alchemist (coming to our world at the end)
    Nice job Toriyama.
     
  18. Sapientia

    Sapientia ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Soo...people created a petition to change the ending of LR, or to have DLC of Serah and Snow's wedding.
    -_-

    Seriously, people? What, so now after any ending we don't like, we have to make a petition to change it? The ending is final, and whether we like it or not, that's that. The creators ended it. We're not the creators. If fans did this for every ending, then who becomes the developers and who becomes the fans/players?

    This is why I have some issues with a oftentimes dumb-as-a-rock FFXIII fanbase. Good lord.

    As for the ending itself, I liked it.
    I didn't need the game to spell it out for me where Lightning was, what happened to everyone, where she was going. She was happy, and I was happy for her. I don't need some cheesy scene of a wedding that I can picture in my head right now. It wasn't open-ended, IMO. Lightning's in what looks to be France, our world. She's attending Snow and Serah's wedding. We can assume the others are just fine, too. And for once, everyone can live a normal life. I can dig it.

    Ugh, where is my peaceful, smart Journey fanbase when I need them? >.>
     
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  19. Storm

    Storm AVALANCHE Warrior

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    Well, I didnt liked the epilogue that much. I hope they actually confirms in the Ultimania that it wasnt Earth.

    Anyway, the epilogue itself works in a symbolical way imo.
     
  20. Sapientia

    Sapientia ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I just don't see the problem of it actually being earth.

    Honestly, would it be any different if Lightning and Co. had come to - I dunno - Planet Oozla from Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando?
     
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