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Lightning Returns *SPOILERS* thread

Discussion in 'Final Fantasy Discussion' started by Fleur, Nov 22, 2013.

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  1. Storm

    Storm AVALANCHE Warrior

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    Its actually very personal, I dont think its bad (my fav game of all time did this), but it just gives me a weird feeling. to me would be better if it was a unknown planet.
     
  2. Alleo

    Alleo Balamb Garden Freshman

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    About the ending:
    So did they start a completely new life (were reborn) or did they just wake up on the new world? Since they showed Hope´s parents and his chance that he could be reborn as their child again does this mean that everyone was saved? Even the one that died before the ending of XIII-2?
    I also hope that this is a planet that only looks a lot like earth but is not earth itself. It just feels strange that they possibly live on our planet now. We don´t have chocobos and moogles, nor do we have any kind of fantasy monsters. So for me this kinda destroys the part about the fantasy. Even in the world of XV which is based on reality, there are still monsters roaming around. But this is not happening if this is really our planet. If this is our earth than I wonder what happened with Mog, the little chocobo and the eidolons? Are they reborn as something different? I´m happy for them but at the same time a little disappointed. I just can´t picture them in our world ;) I mean it just odd picturing Lightning, Fang etc. in a office or in other common jobs. And its probably strange for them too. And did they (especially Lightning) just lose all of their power? I mean they just defeated a god :cool: And if there is no god anymore does this mean that there is no afterlife? For me the best ending would have been a little scene of the wedding. Everyone would be there and it ends with Lightning smiling. No hints that this could be our world just showing the important characters so that everyone could imagine what they want.
    All of this is just my opinion ;) I know that we can´t change anything (and I think that this petition is stupid) and I´m happy that there was a good ending with everyone alive but still I wish they would have gone a different route.

    Sorry for my bad english :confused:
     
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  3. UNKLE

    UNKLE Yevonite

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    No they didn't showed snow and the others so we only know Lightning is still alive in real world what we call earth.. nothing else! SE didn't care a little fuck about the others its JUST STUPID pile of shit ending its make me MAD still FF13-1 ending was best yeah 2 girls sacrificed themselves to save the world but they lived in a FANTASY-WORLD and showed the other charachters too and i love the not 100% happy ending..FF13 trilogy should stop after ff13-1.Thank god i not planned to buy this game i already can see IGN and the others will give this game 65-70%
     
  4. Fleur

    Fleur Red Wings Commander

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    My problem with the ending is

    it's clearly just a Lightning ending. I know this may sound like a silly thing to say given that this is her game, but the ending to Lightning Returns is also the final, culminating ending to the whole trilogy, at least in terms of on-disc content. It's understandable why there are people taken aback by how Lightning marginalises every other character, and there's virtually nothing else depicted about them.

    As much as Toriyama and company want to push that this was a Lightning trilogy all along, I think we can all accept that she was only one part of the whole thing. It was originally also just as much - if not more - a story about everyone, especially Vanille, etc. but any discussion of their lives and how they've grown to adapt to Earth will likely be relegated to an Ultimania book post-release. Even to the most ardent fan of the trilogy, this really doesn't come across as a decent payoff and a sendoff to them.

    The Earth thing is...okay, yeah, I thought it was really silly to begin with. I still do, but if FFXV can have places that look like Venice, and almost exactly like Shinjuku, then perhaps one can push it far enough that Lightning isn't on Earth, but just a very similar Earth-like world. Whatever, I dunno. I still find the transition from FFXIII's own sci-fi/post-apocalyptic world(s) setting to a disjointed, ungrounded mess of time travel and voids and paradoxes, to a temporary but mostly-new world that's the size of four small islands being eaten away by Chaos, and to pseudo-Earth an utter, jarring mess.
     
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  5. Jenova

    Jenova ShinRa SOLDIER

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    The epilogue didn't bother me too much. Light and co. journeying to Earth or an Earth-like planet wasn't all that disheartening. What bothered me more was the Deus Ex Machina at the end. At least the one in XIII made some sort of sense. This was Gurren Lagann levels of logic.
     
  6. Storm2356

    Storm2356 PSICOM Soldier

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    Well... Lightning's goal in LR is to save all of these people, so, even though they aren't shown, you can infer that they're all there.
     
  7. Storm

    Storm AVALANCHE Warrior

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    Now I understand why they ended up on Earth (or a copy of our planet).

    The Norse mythology is featured a lot in FFXIII games, and LR is no different. Yggdrasil is connected to nine realms, and one of them is Midgard (which is Earth), in the image below you can see our realm above the tree.

    > http://24.media.tumblr.com/721b3eec51c4dc2abe5b18f008970d29/tumblr_mwrreuIB2h1qi1foco1_1280.png

    So, that kinda explains the ending, they simply followed the norse mythos, implementing things like Ragnarok, Valhalla, and now Midgard.
     
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  8. Alleo

    Alleo Balamb Garden Freshman

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    I kinda agree with Fleur about the focus on Lightning. I really love her, she is my favorite character in the games but still I kinda missed the others. Not only was Sazh barely there at all (he wasn´t even fighting in the last battle) even the others didn´t get a lot of screen time. I know that she is the face of the XIII-saga but they should have considered that the players love the other characters too. Furthermore it did look like they got separated at the end. (Souls flying in different directions) So showing them all together again in the epilogue would have told us that they found each other again.

    I have three different versions how my perfect epilogue would have been:

    First they could have used some CGI pictures that show us all the characters in different situations. Maybe even ending it with one big picture of the wedding. Not only would it show us that they are all together but the wish of a wedding would have been fulfilled. (And everyone would wear some new clothes ;)) With this we would get a glimpse of what happened with them without directly showing us if this is earth or not.

    Another possibility would have been that they show Lightning standing there looking around (maybe the landscape could have been a mixture of our earth and some new details; making it only earth-like) and suddenly there are the voices of every main character saying something to her and she looks up and smiles. The focus would still be on her but we at least know that the others are there.

    The last one would be the wedding or more like a scene of the wedding. (I know its cheesy ;)) Maybe Serah and Snow could have finally kissed and than we would see the others. After that we focus on Lightning (maybe she and Serah glancing at each other) who is smiling.

    In all of my endings there would be barely any focus on the landscape and if there is a glimpse of it than it would be completely ambiguous so that it would look a little like earth but there would be still some fantasy elements in it.

    This is only my opinion :) I know that there will be people who would hate such endings and I also know that nothing will change but one can still dream.

    And I agree with the one that said that its strange that our world would be the one without a god. (We have so many religions) But even the thought about any world without any kind of deity is odd. I mean in XIII the humans only existed thanks to Etro and Lindzei. So why should they be against any kind of god? That they don´t like the ones like Bhunny is understandable but why be against the ones that leave them their own free will? I mean even in Dissidia deities exist.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
  9. Fleur

    Fleur Red Wings Commander

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    I keep suspecting that this was a Valkyrie Profile game at some very early, preliminary stage. Then again, I always found the bits of Norse in the trilogy to just be references, as opposed to actually having a Norse theme. I'll wait and see how heavily LR deals with the Norse though.

    Additionally, I am a little concerned for FFXV as a Fabula Nova Crystallis game:

    We're not beating up God AGAIN, are we? I'm genuinely very tired of that trope. FFXV is certainly going to have its own interpretation of the mythology - though I wonder how much it will be watered down for it - and I dearly hope that this war over crystals and some concurrent plot point about Etro and the ability to see expiring souls doesn't translate into beating up another Bhunivelze or the like at some point in the FFXV "Epic". Can we do something else other than have a bunch of young men and women kill GOD, please?
     
  10. Ehren

    Ehren The Sunflower Knight Moderator Site Staff

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    At this point... I think you may just be out of luck, Fleur.
    So many of the Final Fantasy games are about defeating God, or someone who has become a God, or someone who thinks of themselves as such. The theme of struggling against Fate seems to be, in the minds of all Square Enix's writers, a fight against God or whatever equivalent of it exists. Failing that, their stories all have to do with the Void and some inexorable, unstoppable force that will undoubtedly consume the world if left unchecked. I dearly hope that Nomura's vision breaks away from this, but... It's Final Fantasy, so I'm not really holding my breath.

    As for you, Sapientia.
    I don't really care if the ending is changed or not. An extension would certainly be nice as I am very interested in what happened to the other characters, but I can live with the ending as it is and lose no sleep. It is a personal preference that games not connect back to Earth at their ending, particularly in instances like this which are meant to be worlds without gods. I have beliefs of my own, which I will not in any way to delve into, which make the ending to this game a bit of a dick move. At the same time, I enjoyed every other part of the ending.
     
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  11. UNKLE

    UNKLE Yevonite

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    The ending is like schrödinger effect? right?
    1-maybe snow live in a differnent universe?
    2-and what about lightning? she have still god power?
    3-Caius/Bhunivelze/and the other Yeauls what about that scene? bhunivelze was not dead only crystallized? so he can come back and create a new world? and now caius and yeauls defend the new world?
    so many questions...
     
  12. Sapientia

    Sapientia ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Err...they showed everyone traveling to the same world, and Yeul is with Noel, so...
    And apparently the ending is Lightning attending Snow and Serah's wedding, so we know they're both alive and well.
     
  13. UNKLE

    UNKLE Yevonite

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    there is only one yuel with noel...

    "Lightning attending Snow and Serah's wedding, so we know they're both alive and well"
    umm maybe you dreamed? they didn't showed that maybe snow doing some other thing like car washing or like that lightning is arrived for her new job as MCDonalds new hamburger maker? who knows...

    Its like the whole FF13 saga was NEVER happened, none of the FF13 saga things that happened actually ...sorry but i just cant handle this shit ending sorry im done...kughhh kuhh.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  14. Storm

    Storm AVALANCHE Warrior

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    "Its like the whole FF13 saga was NEVER happened, none of the FF13 saga things that happened actually ...sorry but i just cant handle this shit ending sorry im done...kughhh kuhh."

    If my theory about the planet being Midgard is correct, then it makes sense.
     
  15. Fleur

    Fleur Red Wings Commander

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    Comparatively to other attempts to close off a trilogy or an anthology of games, at least Lightning Returns isn't exactly Mass Effect 3 and Assassin's Creed 3. =P

    i.e. it's not an enormous betrayal in epic proportions, nor is it as laughably anticlimactic as the apathy-inspiring ending to the Ass Creed Desmond storyline, but neither is LR's ending
    anything profoundly brilliant either. It's goofy and easy to laugh at when you first hear/see it, because she's been magically transported to what seems to be our planet, but overall it gets the job done, even IF to repeat my last post, it's too Lightning-centric to close off a trilogy that was about a lot more than her.

    (Heck, in a way, I still like FFXIII-2's ending the most, despite my initial horror at the thought of yet another sequel to a game I heartily disliked. It's purely because it was an unexpected (at least it was to me when I watched the Japanese stream. I didn't see the story to pick up the hints, you see) subversion of what everyone was expecting, and the uproar and alarmed cries were funny to see.)
     
  16. Storm

    Storm AVALANCHE Warrior

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    "It's purely because it was an unexpected (at least it was to me when I watched the Japanese stream. I didn't see the story to pick up the hints, you see) subversion of what everyone was expecting, and the uproar and alarmed cries were funny to see."

    yeah, I still remember the reception, neogaf was in hater mode. XD
     
  17. Denki

    Denki Balamb Garden Freshman

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    @Fleur:

    There's that image of a Versus brainstorm session floating around. Someone purportedly wrote "Etro - final boss?" on the board, lol, so I'm sorry to say it probably doesn't help your cause. Of course, since the image is a few years old, the XV development team may have made major changes.
     
  18. UNKLE

    UNKLE Yevonite

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    IN XV maybe lightning will be the final boss that would be cool to kill her...
     
  19. Sapientia

    Sapientia ShinRa SOLDIER

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    You know, you often say XIII-2 and LR are trash, but...not much evidence other than they're "trash.". And you haven't played LR at all, right?
     
  20. Mark

    Mark Balamb Garden Freshman

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    It would be different, but just as asinine.

    You don't want a proper ending? Moreover, the question is not 'where', but why and how.

    Probably avoiding you.

    All in all, another failed story Watanabe can add to his list.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
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