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Thoughts on the XIII games

Discussion in 'Final Fantasy Discussion' started by Storm2356, Oct 5, 2013.

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  1. Fleur

    Fleur Red Wings Commander

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    I'm starting to wonder if the battle systems used in FFXIII and FFXIII-2 could have had a further mechanic built in that allowed the player to determine - even if it's in the most minimal, passive way - the positions of party members in a fight.

    It's irritating when certain characters who may be relatively low on HP, and are not Sentinels, wander stupidly towards the line of fire when an enemy casts an area effect ability. That's the most annoying part of the battle system, because there's no reason why someone like Serah or Vanille absent-mindedly walk right into the enemy's face, instead of sticking I dunno, farther back. It's even more annoying when the more vulnerable characters are hit, but someone who can afford to tank the hit points has narrowly avoided it because he or she is fortunate enough to be just outside the attack radius.

    FFXIII's OST is definitely one of the better points about the game. I maintain that "Blinded by Light" is one of the addictive tracks to listen to - and I have to love it, because I've been loving it since 2006. I think "Dust to Dust" is my personal standout from the soundtrack because of its powerful, soothing ethereal nature that compliments the location of Oerba - probably the best looking area in the FFXIII games thus far in my opinion...for some reason.

    However, I never grew to appreciate FFXIII-2's soundtrack as a whole. I don't doubt that there are some gems here and there, but sans Caius's theme (which I think starts off well, then just falls flat after 35 seconds into something almost Disney-like?), most of them seem oddly forgettable. It's one of these times when you have such a strong recollection of what you didn't like about the soundtrack that it spoils the overall product because it's all you can remember from then on. I never found FFXIII-2's soundtrack to be a beneficiary of a more experimental approach, because to me, I just see an incoherent mix of styles that don't fit. Like, why is there that rap track early on in the Bresha Ruins?
     
  2. Leon Aether

    Leon Aether PSICOM Soldier

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    Indeed!!! Dust to Dust is the best of the OST and I would really be satisfied if we had more things to do in Oerba! Such a beautiful place!

    That's indeed the case. A deep connection between them. To be honest, it was Hope who actually made me love Lightning. He changed her, he extracted all her imprisoned emotions... I'm really curious about these two in LR. I believe they will strengthen their relationship now that only Hope is by her side and that may be the catalyst for Light's decisions in her last fight... I dunno, I hope!
     
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  3. Mark

    Mark Balamb Garden Freshman

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    1) You can still cancel your attacks with auto-battle. Like I said, yes, there are slight exceptions, (like using haste first) but canceling your attacks to save you maybe 2 seconds isn't my idea of a good battle system. But yes, I did that often although sometimes I misinterpreted it and ended up wasting more time.

    2) Yes that is actually a legitimate reason to use it but I never found the need to do so, and again only saved you about 2 seconds of time. The game gives the illusion that you need to fight the battles really quickly to try and make it seem more exciting, when in reality it's just trying to cover up the fact that the battle system is bad, in my opinion. Yeah, sure, if you get five stars if you do it quickly, but what does that even mean. The loot you get is RANDOMIZED. It should be set depending on what star you get. I can't tell how many times I fought the admontoise without getting the special loot thing, no matter how fast you done it. And I did it really fast, considering how much I don't care for the game.

    3) I have no idea what you're talking about here but I suppose I'll have to believe you. It seems to be a rather niche move that wouldn't be used often and I doubt even the creators know of it.

    4) To be honest, I'd rather just use auto battle and concentrate on listening to my music, which was what I did for the majority of XIII fights, minus boss fights and such, (I'd rather take in the atmosphere) :)

    5) Are you serious? I'm sorry but that's one of the most nonsensical reasons to do something.

    6)"I might want to do something that deals a higher area damage than focusing on one enemy"

    Although you do have the option to do this and it is sometimes slightly useful, like I said, the structure of the battles ruins this, with the enemies jumping about the place all the time, even when you have to wait for a bar to load. So by the time that bar has loaded the enemies quite possibly moved (and it happened a lot to me).

    "And you'll never get to use the ATB skill attacks like Army of One if you use Auto-battle"

    This is more of a reason than anything else you mentioned. Army of One was actually quite useful as soon as you staggered an enemy.

    Instead of trivial reasons such as those you mentioned, I'd rather not use auto battle for normal reasons like there's actually specific abilities to use in certain situations/specific enemies/postition/weapon choice etc,

    And I personally liked the micro-managing of FFXII, and it never forced it on you. It really gave you the option to completely customize the characters so that battles went quicker.
     
  4. Mark

    Mark Balamb Garden Freshman

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    Lots of things, namely the fact that once you've upgraded a weapon and find another you have no idea if the weapon you just found has the potential to be better. Spoony's review seems to be the only one that highlights this extremely apparant flaw.
     
  5. Sapientia

    Sapientia ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Trivial? I guess my post was a waste of time, as I think fighting as efficiently as possible is fun. Why would I want to slog through a battle and do nothing to make it more fun when I have the option to? If anything, I feel like the Auto-battle definitely has a lot of flaws when it selects attacks, and should only be used on low-level enemies or if the ATB gauge is nearly full and there's no point in wasting time inputting attacks (a problem I had with XIII-2).
    But if you're set on disliking the Auto-battle feature, than there's nothing I can do or say to change your mind. Ah, well. I shouldn't be surprised anymore. :)
     
  6. Sapientia

    Sapientia ShinRa SOLDIER

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    There is a way you can sort of position your Sentinel, but it's not exactly always going to work. I figured this out in the Hecatoncheir Eidolon battle, as it's only with Vanille and Fang. Because Hecaton deals some pretty impressive damage that could more or less count as area effects, I started with a Paradigm with Fang as a Commando, so she automatically runs forward. When she lands her first attack I shifted to a Paradigm with her as a Sentinel, and immediately she Provokes and moves into her Mediguard stance, meaning Vanille is safe from harm. Now, what you said was different, but I'm showing an example of what the Sentinel can do if you tweak the Paradigms. After all, it's the Sentinel's job to get in the thick of things and be a damage sponge.
    Medic>Sentinel shift might also ensure your Sentinel stays near your party members. Why I think this isn't a good thing (and why the Sentinels are smart to move away from my other party members) is that obviously when the Sentinel provokes an enemy and it works, it draws their attacks, and sometimes those are area-effect attacks. One example of that is a late-game enemy called Raktavija, who casts a lot of area-effect spells. If my Sentinel were close to me, I'd be wiped out every turn.
     
  7. Kagari

    Kagari 神羅カンパニー社長 Staff Member Administrator Site Staff

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    On the topic of the soundtrack, XIII's does have some nice tracks but for me the over all package isn't as memorable as some of the past entries in the series. It's certainly not one I keep in my playlist and if XIII songs do get in there, it's only because they're apart of some other compilation of music such as the Theatrhythm OST or Distant Worlds. I guess I just wasn't gripped by it due to the lack of stand out "themes" I suppose. Uematsu is a lot better at composing specific melodies where as Hamauzu is definitely more of... I guess you could say ambient feel kind of composer.
     
  8. Azuardo

    Azuardo Materia Hunter Staff Member Moderator

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    "Ambient" is indeed the word to describe Hamauzu's music the majority of the time, and that's definitely what XIII's OST is. Some of my fave tracks in FFX were by Hamauzu, but again, some of them are more ambient than catchy, too. Reminds me that Zelda: Skyward Sword went the path of ambience, as well. It's not to slate XIII's OST in any way - because I really liked a lot of the music on it - but it's not one of those you really can blast out through your iPod and hum along to most of the time. Always refreshing to see/hear something different, though, and even if it doesn't end up as something comparable to Uematsu's great OSTs, it still ends up being one of the standout aspects of the game (though depending on your overiding opinion of the game, this either gives or doesn't give the OST a lot of credit, heh).
     
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  9. Mark

    Mark Balamb Garden Freshman

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    Although this should be something worth considering, it's not in XIII. This ideology only applies to normal fights, not bosses, as most bosses didn't have elemental defences. So for your normal fight, once you've staggered them, they're pretty much dead anyway, so hassling yourself to select fire over and over again is kind of silly, (and should be apparant anyway). You could, alternatively, just cast libra, which is actually probably more effective than trying to figure out each enemies elemental status.

    Maybe not consciously, but it would certainly contribute to their overall enjoyment of the game.

    Not true. I dislike the game, and I suppose I do hate the game to a certain extent for, in my opinion, ruining FF and needlessly puting the spotlight on itself that would better be applied to other games, but I do, as I've already stated, like certain aspects of the game such as the Paradigm Shift system, some of the music, the graphics and the cinematography.

    He may have stopped whinning then, but he was still a bit over-emotional little boy (I kind of rolled my eyed when he wanted to kill Snow, which, as much as I would want that to happen, I know he could never do) and when he did stop whinning he turned into the typical "I'm all grown up!" boy. "I need to be stronger!". "I can do this!", "Let me take point, their guns are worthless against my boomerang!". It's cliche and it annoyed me.

    I said the music was decent. Apart from Born Anew, Blinded by Light, Dust to Dust, Fighting Fate, and Sabers Edge, nothing really stood out. Born Anew is by far the best track, and even still it's not exactly the best thing I've heard.

    And seriously, I just cannot fathom the love for XIII-2's OST. I honestly can't. Apart from Noel's Theme -"The Future"-, I can't think of any tracks that I like. That peice fitted perfectly with the area, and I even liked just sitting there taking in the atmosphere.
     
  10. Mark

    Mark Balamb Garden Freshman

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    He's a good synthesiser, I'll give him that, but he definetly shouldn't be a lead composer. He's good at creating electronic, computerized sounds, but no peices that will stand the test of time or anything.
     
  11. Sapientia

    Sapientia ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Some people just like XIII-2's soundtrack. At first, when I popped it in my CD player (yeah, I still use one), I was so disappointed. But once I heard it in the game it began to grown on me because it was so different and diverse. Many of the vocal tracks are definitely my favorites, so clearly they did something right to please what looks like, just judging by YouTube on the OST videos, plenty of people enjoy.
     
  12. Mark

    Mark Balamb Garden Freshman

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    Because again, that "option" is trivial at best. If your idea of fun is cancelling some of your attacks (that, by the way, you've already stacked up if you've went into abilties manually) to save about two seconds of time then I don't know what to tell you.

    Likewise. :)
     
  13. Leon Aether

    Leon Aether PSICOM Soldier

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    @Mark
    He is just a 14 year old boy, who lost his mother, his father was never there for him, and he became a l'Cie meaning he had the constant fear of becoming a Cie'th someday... And yet his determination to fight and stand on his own feet, to vanish his fears is a cliche and annoying behavior? I really can't understand that. But oh well. The way how we see things is entirely subjective and of course your opinion is welcome!
     
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  14. Mark

    Mark Balamb Garden Freshman

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    I'm sorry, this may seem heartless but the fact that he lost his mother meant little to me as it happened at the start of the game when they had no development. If it was in the middle of the game (or moreso if he was actually real, lol) I would possibly feel sorry for him.

    When presented in a cliche and annoying way, yes. See: quotes. I think that if the dialouge was better I may have been able to take him more seriously. They just need to fire Watanabe.
     
  15. Sapientia

    Sapientia ShinRa SOLDIER

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    If anyone has some free time, I'll be streaming FFXIII, a new playthrough, tonight for as long as I can. Just for fun. :D
    Link to my Twitch is right in the sig.
     
  16. Varnis

    Varnis Yevonite

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    Me being the kind of gamer I am, where I've got literally 100's of games I've yet to play...I appreciated XIII's Linearity as it didn't try to throw me off course to a 5-hour grind-fest or anything like that, It's one of my top favorite Final Fantasy main games, and Also I appreciate a 'Faster' paced combat system...kept me on my toes the whole game.
     
  17. Griffin 325

    Griffin 325 Balamb Garden Freshman

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    While I like Lightning and all, I personally think Fang would be better suited and more interesting in the savior position than Lightning. She just seems more human and less stiff. Also I really want to see her fight Caius. lol
     
  18. Griffin 325

    Griffin 325 Balamb Garden Freshman

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    I have similar feelings about XIII-2's soundtrack. I believe it would have benefited from less vocal bgm(though I believe vocal pieces worked very well in New Bodhum, Sunleth Waterscape, and Archelyte Steppe), a better boss battle theme, and a more unified synthesizer( Hamauzu's pieces sound better quality than the others' pieces, excluding "Caius' Theme", because of this. Lol They should have had him arrange their music.) Of course, this is just my opinion. Nevertheless, I did enjoy lots of its music after it grew on me.
     
  19. Storm2356

    Storm2356 PSICOM Soldier

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    While I can see your reasoning, the main reason Lightning is getting the game mostly to herself is so they can flesh out her character and seemingly make her more relateable.
     
  20. Kagari

    Kagari 神羅カンパニー社長 Staff Member Administrator Site Staff

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    I don't think that's really the case. They outright said she won't really have any emotions now so how does that make her relateable?
     
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