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Yoshinori Kitase: I'm convinced FFXIII will be the greatest FF ever

Discussion in 'Final Fantasy Discussion' started by 1Truth2Lies, Oct 19, 2014.

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  1. KOKAYI5

    KOKAYI5 Red Wings Commander

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    FF13 IMO
    Good: graphics, strong women, imaginative dungeons, cyborg foes, fantasy magic in a sci-fi setting like Star Ocean games, long story, music, teaming up with summons in battle, cutscene fights, Hope's dreadnaught mini-game, Hope and Lightning's LBs, Sazh's way of rapid shooting doing Blitz, battle with Cid (best in the game)

    Bad: Vanille, comedy scenes with the chocobo chick and Sazh, no shopping in towns, weak synth system, few stats for each character to control their strength in battle (STR, MAG), overuse of status ailment early on, barely any exploration, have to beat game to max out characters, few villains (most weren't really imposing story wise), instant death if controlled character dies in battle.

    An okay game. But never do it like that again, Square.
     
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  2. Wazi the pa

    Wazi the pa Samurai Legend Moderator Site Staff

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    Exactomundo. Toriyama had the vision to try and get casual gamers to join the JRPG gaming and because of that, there was so much linearity & more that made the game very flawed.
    Ah, no matter. I bet you that Square have learned their mistakes in terms of design choices.

    I loved the motivational music in FFXIII like "Will to Fight" & "Defiers of fate".
     
  3. 1Truth2Lies

    1Truth2Lies PSICOM Soldier

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    The part in bold is a prime of example of people blaming Toriyama for things that were Kitase's fault. It was Kitase that decided to make FFXIII linear and not have towns, NPC side-quests, mini-games, etc. It was also him that wanted to appeal to the FPS crowd, as he's a fan of FPS games and wanted to attract the huge Call of Duty fanbase. Toriyama just directed and wrote the base story. Please apply your blame for FFXIII's flaws on the right person.
     
  4. KOKAYI5

    KOKAYI5 Red Wings Commander

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    Just because Kitase like FPS gamew he wanted to make an RPG be more like one? He should've asked around before doing that. Ask people to see if most liked the idea.
     
  5. Wazi the pa

    Wazi the pa Samurai Legend Moderator Site Staff

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    Toriyama is the creative director. It was up to him to whether those design choices would be in the game. Toriyama is at fault as well to accept the design choice.
     
  6. Mistwalker

    Mistwalker Red Wings Commander

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    I'm not sure about that. Remember that they tried to do the same thing with a little game called Final Fantasy Mystic Quest back in the 90s? Trying to make a entry-level JRPG to attract more gamers? And we all know how that game went.
     
  7. Squirrel Emperor

    Squirrel Emperor Nuts Staff Member Moderator

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    Judging by FFXIII-2 and LR:FFXIII sales, I don't really see how they carried much of anything.

    I'd argue Eidos is what carried Square Enix. They were acquired to increase the company's output as the HD era decreased it. Combine that with the troubles the company has been having with the HD era for the past 8 years and Eidos pretty much saved Square Enix from major disaster.

    And it'd probably help if Square Enix had the resources to give Itou a console team too. I mean... Noticed how you haven't really heard much from the FFXII team in awhile?

    Mmm.... Nah. :)
     
  8. 1Truth2Lies

    1Truth2Lies PSICOM Soldier

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    Toriyama was not the "Creative Director" of FFXIII, though. He was only the Director. The creative aspect of FFXIII was done by Kitase, who was the Game Designer of FFVIII, FFX, and FFXIII. If you look at all three of those games, you can see each one got increasingly more linear and cinematic, which is Kitase's style of game design. It was Kitase idea to make FFXIII linear and streamlined. Even if Toriyama disagreed with Kitase on some parts, Kitase has more authority over the project than him, as he's the Producer. What Kitase says goes.
     
  9. Wazi the pa

    Wazi the pa Samurai Legend Moderator Site Staff

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    Director is broad term, so you can call his position as 'Director' or 'Creative Director', they are one and the same nonetheless. Kitase only oversees the development & creative aspects of the game. Toriyama is the director, a person in the team to devise the ideas and make what the game is BASED on Kitase's vision of how the game is supposed to be.

    Thus, Toriyama is mostly responsible for not being able to create the illusion of having freedom within FFXIII in which most of the time in the game, you are literally having to walk through a hall-way to progress through the game and once you leave that hall-way, you can never go back, meaning not even back-tracking was found to be in the linear sections of FFXIII. The only section in Final Fantasy XIII where you can explore AND back-track is in the land of Gran Pulse, which is very limited and a weird design choice considering most of the game is linear itself. I can tell you how FFXIII differs from FFX in many ways in terms of it's gameplay, but you already know, I guess.

    If you played Final Fantasy X-2, you will understand and that game was praised better than XIII by miles. It was only because Toriyama has content from FFX to work on and from there, use that along with his ideal vision of the game.

    That was then, this is now. Stay positive, dammit!
     
  10. 1Truth2Lies

    1Truth2Lies PSICOM Soldier

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    Director is not a broad term. You have many different types of Director positions in gaming. A person that is a "Creative Director" is different to a Game Design Director", just like how an "Event Director" is different to an "Art Director". If the person is only called the "Director", that means they merely lead the team and make sure everybody under them is on track. They don't dictate what ever person on the development team should do. Kitase has even said that directing a FF is like taking everybody's ideas and putting them into the final game,not the director calling the shots and telling everybody specifically what to do. Basically, directing a FF is the opposite to being an auteur.

    Kitase is the Producer and therefore has final say on the quality control of the game. He's the one who deems if the game is of a good enough quality to ship or not. He also closely supervised FFXIII's development and watched what Toriyama was doing. Therefore, for the finished game to not be up to snuff just goes to show that Kitase didn't do a good job. However, going by his comments in the OP about FFXIII being "the greatest FF ever". I think he really believes that it's the best in the series. That just goes to show that his view on what makes a great mainline FF isn't the same as the majority of the fanbase view on the matter.

    To put it bluntly: Kitase has fallen off, just like George Lucas.
     
  11. Wazi the pa

    Wazi the pa Samurai Legend Moderator Site Staff

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    That makes sense. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
     
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  12. 1Truth2Lies

    1Truth2Lies PSICOM Soldier

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    No need to apologise, bro. You ain't done anything wrong, as you're not the only one that puts full blame for FFXIII on Toriyama. Honestly, I shouldn't really care, but I know how it feels to have a negative reputation based on things that aren't even true. In that sense, I'm just like Toriyama. Therefore, in the same way I've managed to defend myself from false accusations, I also want to defend Toriyama for all the slack he gets from the FF fnabase, especially when most of the things people blame him for are actually the fault of Kitase, who this fanbase still highly praise.

    Personally, I think Toriyama is a decent director. I enjoyed both FFXII: Revenant Wings and FFXIII more than FFVIII, which was directed by Kitase. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed FFVIII when I first played it back in 1999, but when I play it now, the story is just utter nonsense. LOL!
     
  13. Wazi the pa

    Wazi the pa Samurai Legend Moderator Site Staff

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    You're not the only one who thinks that way. :chocowalk:
     
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  14. 1Truth2Lies

    1Truth2Lies PSICOM Soldier

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    I think I'm one of the few FF fans that doesn't put Kitase on a pedestal. FFVII was great and got me into JRPGs, but all the stuff he's worked on since has been all flash and no substance, IMO. It doesn't help that he favours convoluted and nonsensical stories over more grounded and mature ones. I think that's why I like Ito more, as the stories he tells are more appealing to me. Sure, FFIX was overly whimsical in storytelling, but it gets a pass by me due to using semi-deformed characters, so it feels more like a Disney cartoon. If FFIX had realistic characters, I'd have found the story to be utter nonsense, too.
     
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  15. Wazi the pa

    Wazi the pa Samurai Legend Moderator Site Staff

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    Good. Everyone can make mistakes. I believe he knows what's he's doing. Also, I still need to play FFIX..... PSVita or PS3..... I'm still busy with the Evil Within so Ill play it later.
     
  16. Tornak

    Tornak ShinRa SOLDIER

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    You have never played IX? It's my favourite FF by far (followed by VI and, despite its many flaws, VIII). Actually, it probably is my favourite game ever, if only because of muh nostalgia.

    Also, play it on Vita, no doubt of that! If I miss my defunct PSP so much is because of how well PSX games performed there. The experience in a modern TV is awful, both because of how bad it looks and because... I'm much lazier (and have less time) now than then, so I prefer the commodity of a portable for games like that.

    I also agree about its story making sense within the world and its characters. Still, I think it was much more coherent than those convulted plots from VII and VIII even if the characters and the world had been more "realistic".

    Regarding Toriyama, I think the guy has talent, sure and has deliver, at the very least, benefits to his company. But maybe not at directing or at being a creative force. He's good when controlled (in a similar fashion to Nomura) and relegated to events and ideas (his duty prior to X-2, basically).

    And well, he may not be at his best at all, but even if I highly dislike the XIII trilogy (I don't think they're bad games, though, just... really mediocre by FF standars) I still think that even if it's just because of his past, Kitase is, along with Ito and the Gooch, the most important person in the series. For better or for worse, he shaped these games, especially in VI and VII.

    So consider me excited to see what he's up to, if only because I want to effectively know if XIII was just a mistake or if he still has it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
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  17. Wazi the pa

    Wazi the pa Samurai Legend Moderator Site Staff

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    Considering all the games that are coming out at the moment, I'm going to have to play FFIX on Christmas. Nonetheless, it's a game I will not forget to play.
     
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  18. UNKLE

    UNKLE Yevonite

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    Well when i was young boy i enjoyed really ff8 and ffx but now ff8 is a bad soap opera for me nothing else,and the story is completly nonsense! same as ffx- bad soap opera with worst protagonist ever,ff9 i finished only one time! i want to forget that game! and i think why most of people say the best ff game is ff7 because they played when the game is released and they have good memories about that times and 3D-JRPG and psx was a new thing. I dont know why people complain all over again ff13 the game is not bad as some people say and old ff games (sakaguchi games) are not better.But of course ff13 could be better if they made what was the original concept was back in early trailers the battle system was different and the graphics was better and the game would feature more fal'cieth like diabolos,ramuh etc.. and without sequels, the sequels is messed up ff13-1.I dont think ff15 will be much better than ff13-1 or ff12 was.(ff15 have already many negative things, and i bet people will say "we waited for this?")

    http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fal'Cie?file=Fal'Cie_Ramuh_FFXIII_Concept_Art.jpg

    http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fal'Cie
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  19. Tornak

    Tornak ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I obviously don't know about your tastes, sure, but I'd say there's a high chance you'll love it!

    It's (for me, of course) the FF with the best cast of characters (and the best main character and love story). Their designs might seem bad in CG form, but are really good and memorable within the artstyle of the game: the graphics are still great today (for a PSX game) and I bet they look great on a Vita.

    The music is beautiful, very fairytale-esque, just like the story: simple and with a much darker and deeper tone that you'd originally expect. The world and its cities are, along with VIII's the most beautiful and charismatic, and there are tons of time-sinking minigames and sidequests (I loved the Choco one, as well as Tetra Master, although it wasn't nearly as good as Triple Triad).

    Of course, it has plenty of flaws: it's pretty easy (disregarding some parts and secret bosses), it has an annoying limit system and characters in your party that lack a clear motivation or are forgotten halfthrough the game... but specially, slooooooooow combats with (iirc) sub-30 FPS.

    But yeah, in my opinion is what a FF should be and basically the game that means the most to me, soooo many good memories...
     
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