A curious matter pertaining MMOs.

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Over the last 2-3 days, I have partaken in two threads discussing various matters regarding the Final Fantasy series's post-IX life, but two things stuck out to me in particular and have awakened my curiousity.

The first one was in @T.O.T's thread about Final Fantasy IX/X being the last good Final Fantasy game (a claim that is disputable and I disagree with), coming from @llazy77, who claimed that Final Fantasy XIV does not count in his opinion when considering the question of good Final Fantasy games past X, because of it being an MMO:
XIV is a MMO (dosent count)
I've seen similar attitudes crop up on the internet over the course of time, and even I tend to exclude both of the Final Fantasy MMORPGs by using the term 'single-player installments' or a variation thereof, largely due to the - possibly unconscious - assimilation of the attitude that they are 'not cared about as much'. This attitude has changed as of recently, as I have gotten deeper into FF XIV (though I haven't played for a month) and I have decided to include it in my list of 'good' post-IX-FFs in future discussions.

That being said, gamerkind seems to be awkwardly dismissive of MMOs as a whole, which leads me to my second point: A common criticism of Final Fantasy XII at the time was that it's combat was perceived as 'MMO-ish', something I mentioned in @xXShuyaXx's thread about 'the irony of progression':
3. The combat is perceived as being 'MMO-ish'.
A few lines later I also wrote this:
particularly the third point, which relies on the deprecation of a specific set of systems to portray it as 'unworthy', a very poor device of criticism
This criticism is not only levelled against Final Fantasy XII, but I have seen similar attitudes reflected in some of the criticism against the combat in recent 'Xeno' games (Xenoblade Chronicles and Xenoblade Chronicles X), as well as the quest design in Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII and the two games mentioned above. I have also used said critical shorthand in talking about Kingdoms Of Amalur: Reckoning and its quest design, as has Ben 'Yahtzee' Croshaw in his review of the first Witcher game.

However, both these points lead me to a question - why does a portion of gamerkind dismiss MMOs in such a manner that they are either a) denied validity in discussions or b) deprecated to the point where 'MMO' is used as a dismissal or even outright slur?

I will say this for myself - I quite fancy the combat systems of the games mentioned above, particularly FF XII's ADB I like because it lets me zone out completely during long grinding sessions (or do something else on the side, like watching an entire season of NCIS), but I also enjoyed Xenoblade's combat as well as that of Final Fantasy XIV and The Witcher 1. That said, I don't like the quest design much either, but it contiually baffles me as a somewhat genre-agnostic person that the phrase 'MMO-style quests' is used instead of calling said quest design aesthetics by a much simpler, clearer term: 'lazy'.


Blitzball Champion
Feb 2, 2017
I am probably not really addressing your question so I apologize in advance. I can't speak for game series in general, but with FF most people are expecting strictly a single player experience. Obviously with FFXI and FFXIV, that's no longer possible as content would eventually be locked behind relying on other people. I understand the greatest strength of both titles that most titles just aren't able to replicate...the social experience. There is a big difference between two people playing a single player game in isolation to only talk about it later vs. 2 people playing the same game together at the same time. That is part of the reason I believe MOBAs and Fighting titles do so well.
Far as the quest portion, MMOs have always been haunted with fetch quest, but correct me if I am wrong. A lot of single player RPG titles have them as well, but they were dressed up a little bit better to not give off that same feel. I guess what it really comes down to is expectations being different. More PC oriented players are probably less likely to complain about fetch quests in MMOs, but rather focus on other things such as hackers, bugs, and other technical side things. Console oriented players take the opposite notion imo. It may be part of the reason why Fallout 4 didn't get nearly as much criticism for being bugged to hell.


Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
However, both these points lead me to a question - why does a portion of gamerkind dismiss MMOs in such a manner that they are either a) denied validity in discussions or b) deprecated to the point where 'MMO' is used as a dismissal or even outright slur?
> preconceived notions (didn't played the game and thinks it doesn't rely on story)
> "it's not FF because it's different" bullshit

in the end, both are games, both have a main numeral after the Final Fantasy title, it shares a lot of common traits to single player titles (i mean, apart for gameplay mechs FFXIV is a traditional FF in all aspects)

it's just a case of being objective, informed and not dumb

edit: it's even more stupid to disconsider online titles since FFXI is the most profitable game in the franchise
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