Criticisms About Luna (Spoilers)

Members see less ads - sign up now for free and join the community!

  • This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
Status
Not open for further replies.

NemesisSP

ShinRa SOLDIER
Dec 1, 2013
166
33
30
#1
To start off with, this is NOT ABOUT STELLA!

Stella is not going to be brought up after this point. I miss Stella, I wish to see more of her, but Luna has to stand on her own as a character. I think Hajime Tabata's big mistake was trying to make a "better" Stella and not making Luna her own character. And that is why she has failed to grab my interest. Because, in my opinion, Lunafreya Nox Fleuret just doesn't work as a strong female lead in the way that Hajime Tabata and Takeshi Nozue have been trying to suggest that she is.

This is also based solely on Kingsglaive and is more of a first impression than a finalized opinion. And my initial opinion is that not only did I not find Luna interesting, at many points I outright despised her based on this movie. I will be watching the movie again and with some family who do not know anything about the development of this game to see how they like her.

So, let's start with her first scene, where she tries to leave Tenebrae for Insomnia before she can and she is stopped by Ravus. Her words and tone imply that she is strong as she tells him off for clinging to a misguided idea, but her body language is more meek and she doesn't even look in his direction. Then, when she does arrive in Insomnia, one of the first thing she does is tell Regis about how she is going to help Noctis fulfill his destiny. And then says that that is her only duty. While she is shown to care about Regis, it's only Noctis she thinks about.

Then, she gets kidnapped. Now the scene with her and Glauca actually is pretty good, with her being defiant at him and he doesn't force her to come with him even though he clearly isn't afraid to manhandle her. He tells her that she's to meet him the next day for what everyone can tell is a trap. And yet she goes anyway, apparently. No we don't see her meeting him or how it goes down, it just happens. And it sets up the rest of the movie.

People having to save Luna. Yes, they do indeed have to protect her and while she does pull her own weight in some moments, she is mostly useless. She even has to be saved by Ultros. Ultros! One of the least intimidating monsters in the franchise that no one has any problems with.

And when she jumps out of that airship when she can not use magic (as Nyx points out) that isn't bravery, or hidden strength, or being unafraid of death, it's just fucking stupid. Yes, it worked out, but what would she have done if he hadn't reacted or if at that moment Regis had died? I felt greater sympathy for Nyx because he had to put up with her. In fact, if you really want to blame anyone for the events of the movie, it's because Luna decided that it was a good idea to go with Glauca even though she must have known it was a trap. He apparently didn't stronghold her into it, she just went because. Even lending credence to the idea that Ravus wouldn't want to hurt his own sister, she had no reason to think that the others wouldn't.

However, let's not dwell on that and instead talk about what motivates Luna. The answer is simple: Noctis and saving the world. That is literally all there is to her personality in this movie. She might show concern for characters like Regis and Nyx, but at the end that is pretty much the end all of her character arc. She starts off wanting to help Noctis and ends the movie wanting to help Noctis. And outside of the opening, because he is not in the movie for the most part, they do not share a single scene.

It's amazing, I wanted to like Luna even after all of this, but this movie made me hate her. But of course, I'd be happy to hear what you guys have to say about it.
 
Last edited:

LeonBlade

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
Site Staff
Oct 25, 2013
2,023
1,859
29
Blossvale, New York
#2
She even has to be saved by Ultros. Ultros! One of the least intimidating monsters in the franchise that no one has any problems with.
Kind of a moot point since Ultros in this movie is pretty terrifying.

Luna decided that it was a good idea to go with Glauca even though she must have known it was a trap.
It's pretty clear she went there to try and assist and to be a huge kink in their plans. Without Luna, I don't think they would have been able to get the ring out of the city.

It's amazing, I wanted to like Luna even after all of this, but this movie made me hate her.
You seemed to have a decent amount of good things to say about her character despite hating her. To me, that's pretty good knowing your opinions on Versus/Stella.

I'm not going to address other points though, as I haven't seen the movie myself.
 

NemesisSP

ShinRa SOLDIER
Dec 1, 2013
166
33
30
#3
Kind of a moot point since Ultros in this movie is pretty terrifying.
I didn't really find Ultros terrifying myself, to be honest. And even then, I would have chosen a monster that wasn't well known to be mostly a complete joke. Still, I have a friend who thinks Ultros is pretty terrifying even as his normal self, so I'm not saying I couldn't see that.

It's pretty clear she went there to try and assist and to be a huge kink in their plans. Without Luna, I don't think they would have been able to get the ring out of the city.
That's a fair point, that she did intend to put a kink in their plans, but in many ways, their plan might not have gone off so well if she had decided not to meet with Glauca. After all, he didn't take her right then and there when he first showed up, he told her to come to him. I'm not saying there might have been a better option, but at the same time, leaving that bit of dialogue there just makes it seem like she could have chosen not to go.

And I don't want to hate Luna. If possible I want to really like her, maybe even love her. But I can't find myself liking her after this movie because she just is so insufferable during it and Nozue and Tabata's attempts to shill her as one of the strongest female characters of the series isn't helping.
 
Last edited:

ChingleeTribal

SOLDIER, First Class
Mar 27, 2016
955
815
#4
It's kinda weird. She had the heart and she would go head first into danger but what arsenal does she have? What fighting capability?
None it would seem judging from the movie. She is strong hearted but she doesn't have the fighting ability to back that up. No magical prowess. No Oracle ability she could use to see slightly into the future to use an an advantageous skill. No weapon to fight with. Nada. Zilch. Nothing.

I don't dislike her but she seems watered down from what Tabata has told us in the past about her.
 

Leonhart

PSICOM Soldier
#5
I think the movie isn't what we should expect from Luna... I don't see any of the elements they are promoting of her in the movie... Her power as oracle, her prestige, anything...
Even Gentiana is missing and maybe will only join her in Altissia. I think the Luna from the game will be more interesting and deep than what we saw, don't lose your hope...

She will confront a f***** Leviathan by herself, don't forget.

 

NemesisSP

ShinRa SOLDIER
Dec 1, 2013
166
33
30
#6
I think the movie isn't what we should expect from Luna... I don't see any of the elements they are promoting of her in the movie... Her power as oracle, her prestige, anything...
Even Gentiana is missing and maybe will only join her in Altissia. I think the Luna from the game will be more interesting and deep than what we saw, don't lose your hope...

She will confront a f***** Leviathan by herself, don't forget.

I get what you are saying, but as I mentioned, this is solely based on Luna in this movie and in this movie, I thought Luna was a weak and in many ways, insufferable, character.

The fact that she manages to take on Leviathan is probably her only redeeming quality at this point for me, because Kingsglaive did her gave her a horrible first introduction.
 

NemesisSP

ShinRa SOLDIER
Dec 1, 2013
166
33
30
#7
Also, stop bringing up Leviathan. Because it has nothing to do with this movie, which as I keep mentioning, is the sole
I think the movie isn't what we should expect from Luna... I don't see any of the elements they are promoting of her in the movie... Her power as oracle, her prestige, anything...
Even Gentiana is missing and maybe will only join her in Altissia. I think the Luna from the game will be more interesting and deep than what we saw, don't lose your hope...

She will confront a f***** Leviathan by herself, don't forget.

I just got to ask. You guys realize, that aside from a minor cameo, Leviathan does not appear in this movie right? And that as I mentioned, my thoughts and this thread are based solely on Luna from the movie. A.K.A, the only freaking thing out right now that gives a full look at her character.

Why do you keep bringing up Leviathan when we have no freaking context for the scene in question AND it has nothing to do with Luna in Kingsglaive? This isn't bringing up something that I missed from the movie or anything, because it hasn't happened yet and won't be shown in full till November. But until that time, I'm gonna make it clear.

There is no goddamn point in bringing it up to defend Luna's character in Kingsglaive.

 

Bionicle8563

SOLDIER Second Class
May 25, 2016
300
199
Australia M8
#8
Okay so after a lot of time thinking about it, I think I know why Luna is the way she is in the movie. However, these are all assumptions/ speculations hence baseless and not worth arguing over.
1) The reason why she acts on the sense of "duty" is because of the time she spent with Noctis. During that time, I assume, her mother was the Oracle at the time and hence she told Luna about Noctis and his destiny. As a child she was more susceptible to the idea that she should do something for him, and when her mother died she could've said "I shall have to do something about it, its my job now"
2) As the Oracle, if we sort of take the 'Seer' definition, then she has been told by the gods that Noctis is the savior, hence reaffirming her beliefs about doing her duty. Another thing is that she has only ever been seen as the "Oracle" since her mother's death, hence she feels like she must fulfill her duty in order get out of that image. And also apparently Luna and Notcis used to communicate with each other (Cause somehow Nifflehiem didn't monitor/stop those communications?) so maybe he was her only friend, which is another point to the "I entrust the future to Noctis" thing (although that reasoning is a bit too anime for me)
3) As the Oracle, usign the 'Seer' definition again, she might know exactly when she's going to die. Giving the reason for her "I'm not afraid of death" thought process. Which is why she is reckless, which is why she does some dumb shit because she knows that doing all that shit is somewhat necessary, or at least it progresses her duty forward. Also being able to communicate with god/ a higher being just might make her kinda do things weirdly. Like, no sane smart person would go into a trap willingly (that is if she did, it was off camera ofc), but the gods were like "yeah go ahead its all g" and she's like "coolio hoolio, im going into the trap".
3.5) A lot of her actions can be explained with "the gods told her to do it" but I don't really like that reasoning too much, just thought I should add it here because its an option I did think of.
4) Finally her line which was like "magic isn't always needed to create miracles" but not necessarily be direct in meaning. It could also be to do with that scene we got of her in the Dawn trailer, where something horrible clearly happens to her, but it created a miracle of her being the Oracle? (If the whole "you get power from a near death experience" is still in it). Also, fun tid bit, if it is still in, then Ravus also has great power because of his near death experience with his mother and then later getting his arm burned off. I hope he has sick magic powers. (Btw Ravus was the most disappointing character of this movie, but I can see them doing something interesting with him in the game)
So yeah, there are my stupid speculations based off of the tinest threads of things we've seen. Hence they are very wrong and I just wanted to pretty much write the things going on in my head in terms of Luna.
 

NemesisSP

ShinRa SOLDIER
Dec 1, 2013
166
33
30
#9
Okay so after a lot of time thinking about it, I think I know why Luna is the way she is in the movie. However, these are all assumptions/ speculations hence baseless and not worth arguing over.
1) The reason why she acts on the sense of "duty" is because of the time she spent with Noctis. During that time, I assume, her mother was the Oracle at the time and hence she told Luna about Noctis and his destiny. As a child she was more susceptible to the idea that she should do something for him, and when her mother died she could've said "I shall have to do something about it, its my job now"
2) As the Oracle, if we sort of take the 'Seer' definition, then she has been told by the gods that Noctis is the savior, hence reaffirming her beliefs about doing her duty. Another thing is that she has only ever been seen as the "Oracle" since her mother's death, hence she feels like she must fulfill her duty in order get out of that image. And also apparently Luna and Notcis used to communicate with each other (Cause somehow Nifflehiem didn't monitor/stop those communications?) so maybe he was her only friend, which is another point to the "I entrust the future to Noctis" thing (although that reasoning is a bit too anime for me)
3) As the Oracle, usign the 'Seer' definition again, she might know exactly when she's going to die. Giving the reason for her "I'm not afraid of death" thought process. Which is why she is reckless, which is why she does some dumb shit because she knows that doing all that shit is somewhat necessary, or at least it progresses her duty forward. Also being able to communicate with god/ a higher being just might make her kinda do things weirdly. Like, no sane smart person would go into a trap willingly (that is if she did, it was off camera ofc), but the gods were like "yeah go ahead its all g" and she's like "coolio hoolio, im going into the trap".
3.5) A lot of her actions can be explained with "the gods told her to do it" but I don't really like that reasoning too much, just thought I should add it here because its an option I did think of.
4) Finally her line which was like "magic isn't always needed to create miracles" but not necessarily be direct in meaning. It could also be to do with that scene we got of her in the Dawn trailer, where something horrible clearly happens to her, but it created a miracle of her being the Oracle? (If the whole "you get power from a near death experience" is still in it). Also, fun tid bit, if it is still in, then Ravus also has great power because of his near death experience with his mother and then later getting his arm burned off. I hope he has sick magic powers. (Btw Ravus was the most disappointing character of this movie, but I can see them doing something interesting with him in the game)
So yeah, there are my stupid speculations based off of the tinest threads of things we've seen. Hence they are very wrong and I just wanted to pretty much write the things going on in my head in terms of Luna.
Hey, no one is stopping you. I created this thread to talk about these sort of things, after all. ;)
 

Guitar (pseudo)God

Blitzball Champion
Aug 14, 2016
509
640
All over
#10
To start off with, this is NOT ABOUT STELLA!

Stella is not going to be brought up after this point. I miss Stella, I wish to see more of her, but Luna has to stand on her own as a character. I think Hajime Tabata's big mistake was trying to make a "better" Stella and not making Luna her own character. And that is why she has failed to grab my interest. Because, in my opinion, Lunafreya Nox Fleuret just doesn't work as a strong female lead in the way that Hajime Tabata and Takeshi Nozue have been trying to suggest that she is.
Stella looked cool, but we didn't know any damn thing about her outside a seven second scene in an 8-year old concept trailer and the party scene where she said "hey, I just met you, but come to Tenebrae sometime." And, lest we forget, they tried to make Stella work, and they couldn't. I highly doubt the thinking was "I've usurped Nomura, so I'm going to change the only female character that fans have built up in their head for no reason other than I can."

As for Luna's characterization in this film, I'm not sure you can blame Tabata for that. Here's a relevant passage from this (admittedly way-too-enthusiastic) interview with Nozue and Dan Inoue, the lead writer. http://wethenerdy.com/kingsglaive-final-fantasy-xv-interview/ Interesting quotes (edited for brevity):

Dan Inoue said:
Well we have a team of writers and I have to credit fellow co-lead Steven Reinhart with a lot of his work on the scripts, he really put the skeleton of it together. You know, the way the script was targeted, Nozue-san’s idea for the plot, and Hasegawa-san who produced the Japanese screenplay were conscious of the Western audience and they were also really open minded with having the lines that really appealed to our [Western] audience and really not making it feel translated or foreign. I would say yeah, mostly different from the games that you’re not matching the same time frames of the Japanese performance necessarily because English was the lead language here. So there were a lot more liberties we could take with the script. Whereas in the game we have time constraints, we have certain motion constraints because it’s more of a localization whereas here with English being the main language and the motion capture actors being mostly native English speakers it was very liberating.
It reads like they had a ton of leeway with the characterizations that may not show up in the game.
 

NemesisSP

ShinRa SOLDIER
Dec 1, 2013
166
33
30
#11
Stella looked cool, but we didn't know any damn thing about her outside a seven second scene in an 8-year old concept trailer and the party scene where she said "hey, I just met you, but come to Tenebrae sometime." And, lest we forget, they tried to make Stella work, and they couldn't. I highly doubt the thinking was "I've usurped Nomura, so I'm going to change the only female character that fans have built up in their head for no reason other than I can."
Dude, as I said, Luna's failings as a character in this movie are not about Stella, but about Luna. Luna has to stand on her own. I'm not interested in hearing about Stella, so if you have something to actually say about Luna, then I'd be happy to hear it.
 

NemesisSP

ShinRa SOLDIER
Dec 1, 2013
166
33
30
#13
I find it hard to miss a shell i.e Stella.
I liked her design but that's all I really know of her 'character'.
Again.... this thread is not about Stella.

Could you please stop trying to bring Stella into this?

But if you want an opinion, stop saying that we didn't know anything about her character. We did, Nomura gave us a summary of her character and motives and there were two scenes that showcased her as a character. She wasn't just a picture on a website and even if we didn't know her character, they obviously did.

And Tabata said they only removed her because they didn't want to change her.

Now, I'm gonna make this clear, I'm not interested in talking about Stella. THIS IS NOT ABOUT STELLA. How many times will I have to point that out before you guys stop talking about her?
 
Last edited:

NemesisSP

ShinRa SOLDIER
Dec 1, 2013
166
33
30
#15
I shall not. You mentioned your opinion on Stella in the OP so I am free to do so as well.
I only mentioned her to make it clear that this isn't about Stella, despite wanting to know more about her. This is only about Luna. Not Stella, just Luna.

I'm gonna have to say it again, Luna might be a reinvisioned version of Stella, but she ultimately has to stand on her own and that was the point of me mentioning Stella in the first place. That no matter what, as a character, she is gonna have to be judged on her own merits.
 

NemesisSP

ShinRa SOLDIER
Dec 1, 2013
166
33
30
#17
So then don't mention Stella in your OP and then go on to tell other people to shut up about it?
Alright, I'm just gonna explain this once. That no matter what you think about Stella and Luna as characters, either as a shell or a well rounded character that we never got the chance to see fully, it is a fact that Luna replacing Stella is one of the biggest criticisms of the character. The reason I mentioned this and explained why is to point out that Stella shouldn't be a factor for this. And after that point, I didn't mention Stella once.

And so I'm going to ask you, very nicely, please stop. I do not want to talk about Stella. I made that clear. You and the other guy specifically brought up and told me that I shouldn't feel upset at her removal. So I'm just telling you, that wasn't the point of why I mentioned her and I don't want people to try and say "Luna is a bad character because she's not Stella"

I want an intelligent discussion on this topic, not.... what this has just been turned into. So please, please understand that I do not want to fight about a point that I only brought up so that we were able to give the character of Lunafreya a chance to not be judged because of issues with the development of the game. Okay?
 

ChingleeTribal

SOLDIER, First Class
Mar 27, 2016
955
815
#18
I don't believe that Luna replacing a shell is the biggest fault to her character. They built the character well and fitted her into a new role that otherwise would not have worked had they stuck to what Stella was supposedly to be.
Their aim for her character in the game is to be a determined heroine who had some fighting prowess. So far the game has accomplished showing this.

Has what we seen in the movie displayed this? Well it showed her determination and strong will as well as fearlessness mixed with carelessness but it did not display her fighting capability at all and I believe that there are reasons for that but the movie did not attempt to show them for whatever odd reasons. I could be wrong though and she could just end up a simple damsel in need of saving but I trust the devs word that in game her character would be the opposite of that. A character that is and will stand on her own as she doesn't rely on being build of from a shell but the desire to create a strong female charters that fit's in a consistent manner with the story of FFXV.
 

NemesisSP

ShinRa SOLDIER
Dec 1, 2013
166
33
30
#19
I don't believe that Luna replacing a shell is the biggest fault to her character. They built the character well and fitted her into a new role that otherwise would not have worked had they stuck to what Stella was supposedly to be.
Their aim for her character in the game is to be a determined heroine who had some fighting prowess. So far the game has accomplished showing this.

Has what we seen in the movie displayed this? Well it showed her determination and strong will as well as fearlessness mixed with carelessness but it did not display her fighting capability at all and I believe that there are reasons for that but the movie did not attempt to show them for whatever odd reasons. I could be wrong though and she could just end up a simple damsel in need of saving but I trust the devs word that in game her character would be the opposite of that. A character that is and will stand on her own as she doesn't rely on being build of from a shell but the desire to create a strong female charters that fit's in a consistent manner with the story of FFXV.
Hahahahahahahaha, wow.... I just... this is fucking pointless. Thank you, thank you for confirming to me that no matter what I do, nothing fucking matters.

I asked you please to not talk about her and you did! Hahahahahahahaha, thank you thank you. You really fucking helped.

I'm done... I'm just done. What could I possibly say now? Because clearly it doesn't matter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.