Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

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Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
1,099
1,704
Yeah, when I think about it Valhalla was said to be on the borders of the Unseen Realm, which is very similar to the the Final World. And how Chirithy says "there's nothing else beyond this". Makes me suspect what we saw in the secret movie was the Kingdom Hearts equivalent of the Unseen World, maybe it's the Kingdom of the Dead being ruled by Yozora? And in FNC, Chaos is visualised as dark water in Valhalla, the Verum Rex art shows Yozora's swords sinking into water, as well Young Xehanort warning Sora he'd be condemned to the bottom of the abyss, so a lot of signs seem to be pointing in that direction imo.
Yeah, there's a number of reasons to think that the secret movie might have taken place in KH's equivalent of the Unseen World -- which will probably be called the Abyss -- not least of which are the connections to both Versus XIII (the Tokyo Government Building) and TWEWY's Shibuya (most obviously the 104 building).

I'm not quite so convinced that Yozora would be the king of the Abyss rather than another denizen who Sora and Riku has to help, but there definitely seems to be a connection between the Noct expy and the Abyss. XD

And the crystal acting as a gateway to the beyond makes much more sense actually, with the beyond serving a similar function to Valhalla in XIII and the Final World in Kingdom Hearts. The crystal is a little bit like Etro's Gate in that context.
Well, Etro's Gate is beyond Valhalla, isn't it? I'm not sure there's a perfect comparison for the Crystal's role.

The Ardyn thing's still a bit murky for me but I can buy what your saying, especially since he was the one mostly responsible for spreading the plague across the world in the modern era, destroying his soul may have undone that. But also the crystal being destroyed in DotF and purging all of the darkness with it's light and shattering is a clean explanation that I actually prefer, does it do that in the original ending or did it just fizzle out?
The animation that plays when the light is expanding out from the Crystal after Noct dies on the throne looks a lot like it's shattering outwards. So maybe the idea is that Ardyn's erasure removes the source of the Scourge, and the light exploding out from the Crystal ensures the destruction of any remnants.
 
Apr 23, 2018
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128
Yeah, there's a number of reasons to think that the secret movie might have taken place in KH's equivalent of the Unseen World -- which will probably be called the Abyss -- not least of which are the connections to both Versus XIII (the Tokyo Government Building) and TWEWY's Shibuya (most obviously the 104 building).

I'm not quite so convinced that Yozora would be the king of the Abyss rather than another denizen who Sora and Riku has to help, but there definitely seems to be a connection between the Noct expy and the Abyss. XD



Well, Etro's Gate is beyond Valhalla, isn't it? I'm not sure there's a perfect comparison for the Crystal's role.



The animation that plays when the light is expanding out from the Crystal after Noct dies on the throne looks a lot like it's shattering outwards. So maybe the idea is that Ardyn's erasure removes the source of the Scourge, and the light exploding out from the Crystal ensures the destruction of any remnants.
There's definitely some allusions to death, but like I said, the Unseen World is never really seen in any of the FF games, maybe Versus would've given us a better glimpse, and Verum Rex is similar. The KH Abyss is that black ocean on the beach in the Realm of Darkness, where you fight Aqua, which is again like the sea of unseen chaos surrounding Valhalla, and also the only description we have of the Unseen Realm is that it's like a dark sea too. If nothing is said to have form there, maybe the Unseen Realm acts more like a illusory world that changes form, could explain why it resembles Tokyo in KH, the Unseen World is unperceivable to Humans so it takes an appearance that's easier to comprehend. Or maybe it just looks like that because Nomura likes dark cities idk.

Etro's Gate is kind of weird, we know it's a door to the Unseen Realm but it seems to work as a path to Valhalla too, like souls pass there on the way to the afterlife. At the beginning of XIII-2, Noel falls through the Historia Crux and finds his way to Valhalla, he's shown arriving through Etro's Gate in the sky. So if XV's crystal acts as a gateway to a sort of purgatory where divine beings reside, it is a little bit similar to Etro's Gate.

Door_of_Souls_in_Valhalla.PNG.png

And I forgot about what happened to the crystal at the end of XV, it all happens so quickly at the end there. So I guess it was destroyed in both endings, makes all the Daemons being purged more believable if the crystal used all of it's power to do it.
 

Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
1,099
1,704
There's definitely some allusions to death, but like I said, the Unseen World is never really seen in any of the FF games, maybe Versus would've given us a better glimpse, and Verum Rex is similar. The KH Abyss is that black ocean on the beach in the Realm of Darkness, where you fight Aqua, which is again like the sea of unseen chaos surrounding Valhalla, and also the only description we have of the Unseen Realm is that it's like a dark sea too. If nothing is said to have form there, maybe the Unseen Realm acts more like a illusory world that changes form, could explain why it resembles Tokyo in KH, the Unseen World is unperceivable to Humans so it takes an appearance that's easier to comprehend. Or maybe it just looks like that because Nomura likes dark cities idk.
Yeah, it's kind of hard to compare something in KH to something that was never actually shown in FF. XD;

Is it accurate to say that the black ocean on the beach in the Realm of Darkness is the Abyss, or is it more that if you sink into it, you end up in the Abyss? I'm not sure that was really clear. The connection between the dark sea in the Realm of Darkness and the sea of chaos surrounding Valhalla is obvious either way, though.

I don't think it's true that nothing has form in the Unseen Realm, since the FNC mythos has Muin and Etro capable of preserving their forms at least for a time. It could still make sense to represent it in terms that the characters visiting understand, though.

Etro's Gate is kind of weird, we know it's a door to the Unseen Realm but it seems to work as a path to Valhalla too, like souls pass there on the way to the afterlife. At the beginning of XIII-2, Noel falls through the Historia Crux and finds his way to Valhalla, he's shown arriving through Etro's Gate in the sky. So if XV's crystal acts as a gateway to a sort of purgatory where divine beings reside, it is a little bit similar to Etro's Gate.

View attachment 1217
Oh, I forgot about that! I guess the two things are pretty much equivalent, then.

And I forgot about what happened to the crystal at the end of XV, it all happens so quickly at the end there. So I guess it was destroyed in both endings, makes all the Daemons being purged more believable if the crystal used all of it's power to do it.
Yeah, it happens quickly and isn't confirmed beyond the sheer existence of the visual. It does make a lot more sense if the Crystal shattered and spread its power throughout the whole world, though.
 

motoleo

Chocobo Knight
Jan 7, 2019
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264
Last edited:
Apr 23, 2018
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I'm waiting for the DotF English release this fall. I'll read the book, maybe discuss some final thoughts, and move on from XV.
At the moment I'm still a little bit meh on Dawn of the Future because I'm more interested in reading the character interactions and dialogue, especially Luna's chapter to get inside her head more. The plot outline is fine but the character stuff is what I'm here for mainly with these DLC. So I can't make a final judgement on it all or move on until the fully translated novel is out.
 
Feb 19, 2018
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I'm just waiting for FFVIII remastered and FFVII Remake at this point so I can get a bit of a palate cleanser and come back to FFXV with a refreshed perspective some time later in the future when I eventually decide to replay it. Anything beyond Episode Ardyn is honestly irrelevant to me since it's where the devs chose to end the game itself's story.

The DoTF stuff is cool to know but I'm not really invested enough in it to wait months for official translations and painstakingly go over them trying to connect or disconnect them from the main FFXV timeline. What's out already is already satisfactory enough for me in the sense that it was a cool what-if concept but FFXV to me is basically just Kingsglaive, the anime, and the game itself with all its DLCs included and I'm fine with ending FFXV there. I think now that the disappointment of losing content that was promised to us has faded, at least for me personally, I think FFXV ended in a pretty good spot.

Luna's really the only aspect that was left to improve upon and while I would've liked to see more of the Empire through Episode Aranea I think Episode Prompto, Episode Ignis, and Episode Ardyn gave us a decent amount of focus on the Empire as both antagonists and just characters. My only real hopes for FFXV at this point are that whenever the game ends up getting remastered they'll maybe add a bit of extra content or maybe put in some extra time to seamlessly integrate the Episodes as best they can. Other than that I think I'm already done with FFXV for now. It was a wild ride but the game is what it is at this point and a novel can't really change that for me.
 

T.O.T

Blitzball Champion
Feb 2, 2017
533
540
If Dawn of the Future is mainly non-canon stuff, I didn't lose out on much. Sure if Noctis's episode would have been the "Omen" path, I could have gotten behind that. The other non-canon stuff, you can miss me with that.
 

motoleo

Chocobo Knight
Jan 7, 2019
196
264
There’s still the mobile game but judging by most of Gaea’s other stuff I mean, what are you going to get with that really? New Empire was a good idea for a new game but I wish the ads were in-game footage.
 
Apr 23, 2018
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If Dawn of the Future is mainly non-canon stuff, I didn't lose out on much. Sure if Noctis's episode would have been the "Omen" path, I could have gotten behind that. The other non-canon stuff, you can miss me with that.
I think I would've liked a darker take even though I liked where the original ending left us, I'll always prefer it being a story of sacrifice even if DotF gives us some nice tidbits and fanservice. An unpopular opinion maybe, but the idea that Noctis was going to kill Luna under Ardyn's influence is much more interesting to me, and it's like a subversion almost because you're expecting Ardyn to come in for the kill like Sephiroth does for Aerith in VII but it's Noctis instead. And throughout the story he has to come to terms with that trauma only to find out later on that Luna has been resurrected by the Gods to fight Noctis or spread darkness and that brings them into direct conflict with each other, and Noctis has to confront his guilt. It's not the first time Ardyn would've used his purple aura to turn others hostile, we see this with the King's of Yore in the Royal Edition, and way back when, Stella also turns inexplicably aggressive against Noctis after a wave of purple energy passes over her.

150532902137957.jpg

There are a number of Versus XIII references in Episode Ardyn and there's of course the Omen trailer, but I did find it interesting that in his vision, Ardyn is forced to kill Aera there by Somnus, and then he utters the line "I'll never forgive you, Somnus", a similar quote supposedly from the game "I'll never forgive you, Ardyn" had appeared on a piece of artwork, but in XV it's never actually spoken by anyone or referenced anywhere, I don't know if it's been found in the game files, I assume it's a line from Noctis about Luna's death maybe? My point is, given that this line exists and was shown prominently, and is used in Episode Ardyn within the context of Ardyn being forced to kill a loved one, maybe it was planned at one point in the game itself for Noctis to kill Luna himself, under Ardyn's control like a puppet or something. Maybe that's where the concept for the Omen trailer came from, a scrapped script idea from earlier days? Either way I agree with you that an Omen novel about that timeline would've been cool, sort of like Dawn of the Future is the good timeline, the original ending is the canon timeline and Omen is the bad timeline.

dark timeline.jpg
 

Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
1,099
1,704
I think I would've liked a darker take even though I liked where the original ending left us, I'll always prefer it being a story of sacrifice even if DotF gives us some nice tidbits and fanservice. An unpopular opinion maybe, but the idea that Noctis was going to kill Luna under Ardyn's influence is much more interesting to me, and it's like a subversion almost because you're expecting Ardyn to come in for the kill like Sephiroth does for Aerith in VII but it's Noctis instead. And throughout the story he has to come to terms with that trauma only to find out later on that Luna has been resurrected by the Gods to fight Noctis or spread darkness and that brings them into direct conflict with each other, and Noctis has to confront his guilt. It's not the first time Ardyn would've used his purple aura to turn others hostile, we see this with the King's of Yore in the Royal Edition, and way back when, Stella also turns inexplicably aggressive against Noctis after a wave of purple energy passes over her.

View attachment 1218

There are a number of Versus XIII references in Episode Ardyn and there's of course the Omen trailer, but I did find it interesting that in his vision, Ardyn is forced to kill Aera there by Somnus, and then he utters the line "I'll never forgive you, Somnus", a similar quote supposedly from the game "I'll never forgive you, Ardyn" had appeared on a piece of artwork, but in XV it's never actually spoken by anyone or referenced anywhere, I don't know if it's been found in the game files, I assume it's a line from Noctis about Luna's death maybe? My point is, given that this line exists and was shown prominently, and is used in Episode Ardyn within the context of Ardyn being forced to kill a loved one, maybe it was planned at one point in the game itself for Noctis to kill Luna himself, under Ardyn's control like a puppet or something. Maybe that's where the concept for the Omen trailer came from, a scrapped script idea from earlier days? Either way I agree with you that an Omen novel about that timeline would've been cool, sort of like Dawn of the Future is the good timeline, the original ending is the canon timeline and Omen is the bad timeline.

View attachment 1219
There's a ton of potential for an Omen-influenced timeline, honestly.

Consider this outline:

Episode Luna:
  • Episode Luna begins at the time when Ardyn appeared before Luna in Altissia... except instead of killing her, he corrupts Noct and makes him stab her with the Trident.
  • Luna is revived by Bahamut, who says Noct has been irrevocably corrupted and can no longer serve as King. She is tasked with killing him and taking the powers of the Kings of Yore, then sacrificing herself to save the world.
  • She struggles with this greatly, initially seeking out the places where she had trained as Oracle, supposedly to gather her courage, but mostly in order to procrastinate on carrying out a mission she doesn't want to deal with.
  • Eventually, she stops running and goes to fight Noct in Insomnia at night.
  • At the last moment, she decides she can't go through with it and absorbs the corruption from Noct instead, becoming Scourge Queen Luna.
  • Ardyn is thrilled, as it looks like Luna will murder Noct for him in a way he finds particularly karmic, but Bahamut spirits Noct away at the last minute.
  • Noct is tasked with fighting Luna, as the clash of Light and Darkness will allow Bahamut to use Teraflare to purify the world of the Scourge.
  • After Noct is cast into Reflection, Bahamut makes it clear that he really intends to wipe out the entire world and start again, as "This world is too far gone."

Episode Noctis:
  • Inside the Crystal, Noct struggles massively with his guilt, manifested as corrupted versions of Ardyn, Luna, and finally himself.
  • Noct leaves the Crystal and meets up with his friends at Hammerhead. When he tells them what he has been ordered to do, Ignis tells him in no uncertain terms that he can't go along with that plan. Noct asks why, and Ignis explains that he has read the legend of Teraflare, and the only time it was ever used, it destroyed almost all life on Eos. Noct, believing that doing as commanded is the only way for him to save Luna and redeem himself, refuses to listen and ends up fighting all three of his friends. They survive the fight, but none of them are in any state to help him for the final battle.
  • Aranea appears and reports that there's a massive fight going on in Insomnia and says it appears that Ardyn is fighting the Oracle. Noct demands she take him to them, and Aranea snarks that she wouldn't have said anything if she didn't intend to do just that.
  • Noct and Aranea show up just in time to see Scourge Queen Luna absorb all of the Scourge from Ardyn. Just as she is about to finish Ardyn off, Noct intervenes. Ardyn asks why Noct would help him; Noct says that dealing with Luna is more important and he'll deal with Ardyn later.
  • Luna takes off and reappears over the Citadel, where the light from the Crystal should have been. Noct takes off after her, and her creepy singing can be heard louder and louder as he gets closer.
  • They begin to fight over the Citadel. As the fight continues, the image of Bahamut grows clearer and clearer in the background. By the end of the fight, Bahamut has absorbed all of Noct's light Crystal energy and all of Luna's dark Scourge energy, and is ready to use Teraflare to destroy everything.
  • When Luna realizes what has happened, she is shocked and tells Noct that it's the end of the world. He remembers what Ignis said, and feels like a complete fool for not having listened to the warning.
  • Gentiana shows up and explains that Bahamut can only be stopped now if he's defeated both in the physical realm and the Beyond, but Noct is no longer capable of surviving the ritual now that his Crystal powers have been drained. J
  • ust when everything seems lost, Ardyn arrives and says that he'll take out Bahamut in the Beyond, since he has just enough Scourge left to ensure he won't be killed immediately. Noct doesn't know whether he can trust him, but Luna says it's their only option.
  • Everything else basically goes the same way as the end of DotF, except with a completely different tone. Noct, Luna, Aranea and the Astrals defeat Bahamut in the physical realm while Ardyn defeats him in the Beyond. In the aftermath, the world of Eos is cut off from everything supernatural, except now that's a tragedy rather than a benefit. All the Astrals are dead, Luna's resurrected body can only last for a few days without their magic, Noct's relationship with his friends is damaged, the Citadel is destroyed, and the kingdom is still in ruins.
  • In the end, Noct ascends the throne and sits their alone, like in the first Versus trailer. The end.
 

motoleo

Chocobo Knight
Jan 7, 2019
196
264
She struggles with this greatly, initially seeking out the places where she had trained as Oracle, supposedly to gather her courage, but mostly in order to procrastinate on carrying out a mission she doesn't want to deal with.
That's not something that Luna would do.
 

Loganight

Forest Owl
Feb 24, 2018
377
811
24
I think I would've liked a darker take even though I liked where the original ending left us, I'll always prefer it being a story of sacrifice even if DotF gives us some nice tidbits and fanservice. An unpopular opinion maybe, but the idea that Noctis was going to kill Luna under Ardyn's influence is much more interesting to me, and it's like a subversion almost because you're expecting Ardyn to come in for the kill like Sephiroth does for Aerith in VII but it's Noctis instead. And throughout the story he has to come to terms with that trauma only to find out later on that Luna has been resurrected by the Gods to fight Noctis or spread darkness and that brings them into direct conflict with each other, and Noctis has to confront his guilt. It's not the first time Ardyn would've used his purple aura to turn others hostile, we see this with the King's of Yore in the Royal Edition, and way back when, Stella also turns inexplicably aggressive against Noctis after a wave of purple energy passes over her.

View attachment 1218

There are a number of Versus XIII references in Episode Ardyn and there's of course the Omen trailer, but I did find it interesting that in his vision, Ardyn is forced to kill Aera there by Somnus, and then he utters the line "I'll never forgive you, Somnus", a similar quote supposedly from the game "I'll never forgive you, Ardyn" had appeared on a piece of artwork, but in XV it's never actually spoken by anyone or referenced anywhere, I don't know if it's been found in the game files, I assume it's a line from Noctis about Luna's death maybe? My point is, given that this line exists and was shown prominently, and is used in Episode Ardyn within the context of Ardyn being forced to kill a loved one, maybe it was planned at one point in the game itself for Noctis to kill Luna himself, under Ardyn's control like a puppet or something. Maybe that's where the concept for the Omen trailer came from, a scrapped script idea from earlier days? Either way I agree with you that an Omen novel about that timeline would've been cool, sort of like Dawn of the Future is the good timeline, the original ending is the canon timeline and Omen is the bad timeline.

View attachment 1219
Unrelated but it was so weird seeing this post and immediately recognizing my own ansel screenshot hahaha glad people are getting use out of em
 
Likes: Storm

Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
1,099
1,704
Eurogamer wrote an interesting article yesterday about FFXV's party AI:

https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2019-...-ai-is-secretly-a-grand-philosophy-experiment

My thoughts:

I find the idea that one of the major differentiators for FFXV's AI was its philosophical assumptions about the way living beings understand and interact with their environments to be completely fascinating. I had noted in one of my videos that the game appeared to be completely fascinated with the idea of humans as embodied beings, whether through its focus on bodily needs like food and sleep, through its portrayal of vulnerability and suffering, or through its insistence that any rejection of the inherent dignity of the body inevitably results in horrific consequences. That the game embedded that same worldview deep into its systems is simultaneously natural and surprising.

Also of note, while Aristotle isn't named directly as an interest, there seems to be something rather hylemorphic about Miyake's comment that "A video game character exists as a form with a body, as a model, and therefore it needs to have AI based upon not just thinking [in the abstract], but its body's actions." There's certainly an Aristotelian strand of phenomenology, so it wouldn't be that strange for Miyake to have been influenced by it.
 
Apr 23, 2018
62
128
Unrelated but it was so weird seeing this post and immediately recognizing my own ansel screenshot hahaha glad people are getting use out of em
It's a pretty badass shot that should be in the game tbqh, good job. Is this yours too? They should've shown more of daemonic Ardyn in the game, he looks pretty creepy when they first reveal him.

3-1522088982-14228691772.png