Lightning Returns buried in SE's financial report - what does this mean for FF sequels?

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APZonerunner

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#1
With Lightning Returns performing so poorly that they don't even mention it by name in the financial report - while they still name-check Thief, FFX HD and even the next-gen rerelease of Tomb Raider as strong performers, what does this mean for the Final Fantasy sequel?

Will the massive drop-off from FF13 to its first sequel and then the even larger one to its second make Square Enix reconsider the sequelization of individual Final Fantasy games? What sort of effect do you think LR's performance will have on their attitude to decision-making around FF?

Full story over at RPG Site: http://rpgsite.net/news/3543-square...lat-2015-forecast-hints-no-ff15-any-time-soon
 
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Crystal Power

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Nov 29, 2013
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#2
I just want Square to slow down and consider does each game need a sequel now? Because after Final Fantasy X, each game got a sequel or spin-off of some sort. With the way things are, it's obvious (or at least many fans say) that Final Fantasy XV will most likely get a sequel. Which is sad because it doesn't even have a release date yet....
 

Azuardo

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Sep 26, 2013
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#4
I guess it depends on the game that is being spun-off's reception. Admittedly, FF13 was received well upon release - overrated and overscored at the time by publications, yes, but that was probably good enough to signal a sequel. Whether they took into account fan feedback - which was much more critical (more so as time went on, which would have been too late by then) - I don't know. But I mean, let's say FF15 is again launched to rave reviews from fans and publicists alike, and bearing in mind just how large scale this game is in terms of its (apparent) world and development, I wouldn't rule out sequels and spin-offs to that. I suppose it comes down to the track record of sequels just simply not performing as well as the originals, and whether SE really cares about that. After all, did FF13-2 turn in a profit for reusing so many assets? Maybe a quick sequel/spin-off, even to fill in the gaps whilst we wait for new mainline entries, is worth it. If these sequels aren't turning in profits, however, clearly it's not worth it.

Taking LR into account, you would have to say milking a game too much can hurt a lot. But I don't think it helps that, by this point, most fans were sick of the characters and thought the games were mediocre at best. If FF15 ends up a wonderful game with wonderful characters, who's to say sequels won't still happen?

There is a part of me that likes to see certain characters again. It's just about making a good game/story out of them...which has proven difficult when we look at the sequels that have come and gone in the past (FFX-2, 13-2, LR, Dirge FF7). But I do miss when each new FF game was a completely different world and set of characters to the last.
 

Nikolasvanitas

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#6
I think its time for Square Enix to evaluate whether sequels are wanted by the fans or not
I would prefer to see new titles with new ideas instead of FF13-4 Serah Returns
Also as Azuardo said I do miss when each new FF game was a completely different world and set of characters to the last.
 

APZonerunner

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#8
To those saying it was expected, I do agree a performance on par with FF13 or even FF13-2 wasn't expected - but the point I make is that it must have been even more of a surprise, given that it wasn't mentioned in the financials!
 
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Crystal Power

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#9
Yea I agree APZonerunner. I know it must have been expected to sell less, But to know it wasn't even mentioned in the financials is a whole different thing. That doesn't look good imo tbh.
 

Crystal Power

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#11
I always saw a lot of hype coming from Square when talking or trying to sell us Lightning Returns. They seemed to consider the game a huge project and one of their most important titles in the last years. I honestly didn't see them promote XIII-2, Star Ocean or other RPGs as much as Lightning Returns.
Heh.. You know, they sure did do that.
 
Sep 26, 2013
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#12
I would hope what it means is that Square Enix makes sure the first game is a great game. It's a first impression that will determine if people are interested in a sequel or not. FFXIII-2 and LR:FFXIII sales tell us that there wasn't much interest due to what people experienced with FFXIII. People didn't stick around.

If people aren't interested, move on to the next numbered title. Don't waste another generation.
 

Jenova

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Oct 28, 2013
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#13
I agree with whoever said Square Enix needs to focus on more new titles rather than piggybacking on past successes.
 
Sep 29, 2013
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#14
I think 13-2 and Lightning Returns were created because they didn't want to build a game from the ground up and could reuse alot of XIII's assets. The games shouldn't have been approved though, the XIII-2 and Lightning Returns teams should have been split between A Realm Reborn, FFXV, and KH3. (This is coming from a big fan of XIII and even 13-2, LR was ok) Square Enix doesn't understand that one of Final Fantasy's most appealing qualities is that each game is a new world with a new cast of characters, we dont want them to reuse everything.
 
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APZonerunner

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#15
I think 13-2 and Lightning Returns were created because they didn't want to build a game from the ground up and could reuse alot of XIII's assets. The games shouldn't have been approved though, the XIII-2 and Lightning Returns teams should have been split between A Realm Reborn, FFXV, and KH3. (This is coming from a big fan of XIII and even 13-2, LR was ok) Square Enix doesn't understand that one of Final Fantasy's most appealing qualities is that each game is a new world with a new cast of characters, we dont want them to reuse everything.
I don't think a sequel was ever a part of the plan, however, y'know, FF13 was a very, very expensive game to make. Building Crystal tools, etcetera... Square needed to make use of the stuff they'd built again in order to make it profitable to the degree they needed. That is, at least I think, why these games really exist. However, the bonus is that they were both much, much cheaper to make than FF13 either due to a lot of reused assets (particularly in FF13-2) or a lot of mega-cheap Chinese outsourcing and just generally lower-quality environments and things (more so in the case of LR.)

That's the thing; when people laugh and say bomba or whatever, I think a lot of the time they forget the games had to sell little (comparatively speaking) to be successful. 13-2 was actually pretty successful for them, even though it had a significant drop off.

That said, a hypothesis: LR suggests that if you don't spend the money to make the game up to FF scratch, it won't be the success it could be. If Square acknowledges they need to spend the money to make the sales, and don't want to lay out that cost risk... maybe they reconsider sequels entirely. Hmm.
 
Sep 29, 2013
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#16
That said, a hypothesis: LR suggests that if you don't spend the money to make the game up to FF scratch, it won't be the success it could be. If Square acknowledges they need to spend the money to make the sales, and don't want to lay out that cost risk... maybe they reconsider sequels entirely. Hmm.
I hope you are right, but they were already talking about 15 sequels at least years E3 =(
 

UNKLE

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Oct 26, 2013
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#17
I don't think a sequel was ever a part of the plan, however, y'know, FF13 was a very, very expensive game to make. Building Crystal tools, etcetera... Square needed to make use of the stuff they'd built again in order to make it profitable to the degree they needed. That is, at least I think, why these games really exist. However, the bonus is that they were both much, much cheaper to make than FF13 either due to a lot of reused assets (particularly in FF13-2) or a lot of mega-cheap Chinese outsourcing and just generally lower-quality environments and things (more so in the case of LR.)

That's the thing; when people laugh and say bomba or whatever, I think a lot of the time they forget the games had to sell little (comparatively speaking) to be successful. 13-2 was actually pretty successful for them, even though it had a significant drop off.

That said, a hypothesis: LR suggests that if you don't spend the money to make the game up to FF scratch, it won't be the success it could be. If Square acknowledges they need to spend the money to make the sales, and don't want to lay out that cost risk... maybe they reconsider sequels entirely. Hmm.

Well I don't think so because sequels are cheaper than make a new game so I think square enix is don't think Lightning return was failed...and ff13-2/ ff13 was successful...
but I say like you and the others who say sequels is not good for FF game because I love FF13 but the sequels are ruin the story...If i would chose I would like to play a prequel of ff13 to play on the old gran pulse world...
 
Sep 26, 2013
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#18
That said, a hypothesis: LR suggests that if you don't spend the money to make the game up to FF scratch, it won't be the success it could be. If Square acknowledges they need to spend the money to make the sales, and don't want to lay out that cost risk... maybe they reconsider sequels entirely. Hmm.
I think we can say that one of the many reasons LR:FFXIII performed the way it did is because it did not meet the expectations of those who demand bigger and better production values. LR:FFXIII did receive some criticism for its visuals after all.

Sony markets PlayStation hardware as very powerful devices. What that means is the audience they target demand cutting edge software. This audience wants bigger worlds and better graphics. Overall, they want amazing production values.

This audience is not buying a PS3 to play PS2 looking games. They are buying a PS3 to play PS3 looking games. If PS3 games look like PS2 games then what's the point of PS3's existence?

Well, the PS2 is dead. People got bored and moved on. So how do you get these people back? By creating new hardware(PS3) that is more powerful then the PS2. This also means marketing the PS3 as something bigger and better then the PS2. You can't market the PS3 as something that plays PS2 looking games. The audience has already experienced that and it is not a good reason for them to return for the next round.

This means developers have to create bigger and better looking games. If they don't, then sales won't be strong because the audience Sony targets did not buy a PS3 to play ugly looking games. You'll notice that PS3 looking games with high production values are the best sellers on the platform.

So when it comes to future sequels, it would probably be in SE's best interest to at least make sure the games don't look ugly and only something the console can handle. Pretty visuals lure people into checking out your product. Ugly visuals don't. LR:FFXIII did showcase some ugly visuals and probably turned some people away.

I do think LR:FFXIII not meeting the expectations of those who demand bigger and better production values is one reason for low sales. But definitely not the only thing. I think it boils down to four things.

-FFXIII not being critically acclaimed. Hurt interest in sequels.
-The last two years of generation 7 was on a death march. Sales were down cause people were bored and moved on.
-LR:FFXIII not looking interesting visually. Did not look like a title that had high production values.
-LR:FFXIII isn't what fans want and expect in a FF sequel. They wanted something faithful to FFXIII.
 
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Likes: Death Penalty
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#19
I have to agree with those above, I think it might help if they make true sequels rather than unplanned cash-ins with the sole intent of reusing assets. It's not about sequels themselves being bad; people love sequels. Sequels to big games often sell better than their predecessors, and the excitement surrounding the announcement of big name sequels is always huge.

The problem is almost certainly that XIII-2 and Lightning Returns were slapdash, sloppy efforts that were in no way up to the quality of XIII. XIII-2 doesn't have the same polish even at a glance, and LR is even more guilty of this. It all seems oddly phoned-in compared to the content that it sprung from. Of course, I understand why from SE's perspective. They needed the cash, and they had all of these resources they'd spent years upon years developing for use in just one game. It seems like a natural choice, but in hindsight it's foolishly short-sighted.

Squirrel Emperor raises probably the most interesting point to me, which is how unfaithful the sequels were to Final Fantasy XIII. If you had given me a synopsis of XIII and XIII-2, I wouldn't have said they were in any way related. I was not XIII's biggest fan, but even I was less than pleased by the drastic change in direction and focus to more ridiculous and far less cohesive story elements like time-travel and Valhalla. To a lesser extent, I could say the same about X's sequel. It kept the world cohesive, but the tone and direction was so different that it might as well have been its own game. There seems to be an issue with keeping the sequels consistent with and faithful to the titles that they sprung from. Understandable, I suppose, because I think both titles were supposed to be standalone games. Sequels came after the fact.

Going forward I'd actually hate to see SE abandon the sequel idea. Some of my favorite games have had grand stories told over several titles, and I think that Final Fantasy could naturally and easily fit this mold. I believe that setting out with sequels in mind would really help, in order to create a more consistent multi-part story. If that's not possible for any reason, then at least make sure that the sequels are of the same or better quality in technical terms. All the best sequels do what their predecessors did bigger and better, with exciting additions. And, even if the sequel is not planned, try to deliver on something true to what the first title delivered on. No out of left field plot points like time travel or adding a cutesy animal sidekick.

It is my hope that this is more or less what XV is doing. It seems like they're aiming for a saga from the get-go, and if we're fortunate the sequels will be more than an afterthought.
 

Valefor@SF

Stiltzkin's Apprentice
#20
I think its time for Square Enix to evaluate whether sequels are wanted by the fans or not
I would prefer to see new titles with new ideas instead of FF13-4 Serah Returns
Also as Azuardo said I do miss when each new FF game was a completely different world and set of characters to the last.
I agree. But, we would have never seen 3 individual, unique final fantasy titles in the lifespan of the PS3. Taking a risk may have been better.