[SPOILERS] Final Fantasy VII Remake Discussion

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Flash Over

Chocobo Knight
Mar 7, 2015
219
156
NL, Canada
#4
From what I read there's time travel/alternative timeline in the Remake story?
Not sure about time travel, but this is definitely a whole new continuity. It’s pretty ambiguous but they’re pretty much pulling a Rebuild of Evangelion with this project. I theorize that the first game is called “Remake” and not “Remake Part 1” is because this is the only game that will actually resemble a remake. This is basically a whole new FF series that uses 7 as a base lol
 
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Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
3,282
5,806
28
Switzerland
#7
My current hype for this project >




yep thats it

the final segment is KH fanfiction, rushed and full of nonsense and has big implications for future entries.

I just wanted to relieve FFVII story, not to play another KH. Im still in utter disbelief on how much they shit the bed

I cant wait to read bazztek's impressions btw
 
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Lord_Ham_Mork

SOLDIER Second Class
Feb 23, 2018
343
583
27
#8
Well, I just finished the game.

--------------SPOILERS AHEAD--------------------------

Doing a recap: Ghosts from the future come to this timeline so everything goes according to the original game. Why that's needed or why the protagonists defy them it's not explained at all.
But Sephiroth can ignore the ghosts and Aerith use some voodo/cetra magic so the protagonists can go to a vortex in time ,where the ghosts produce a gigantic Power Ranger villain and by defeating him, a new time line where Zack survives happen without any logic connecting both events. But by killing it they're not tied to the original game and can do whatever they want. Also, Sephiroth will be an ally of sorts because he also wants to defy destiny and asks Cloud to join him...
That's a lot of bullshit.

My theory is that Genesis (the only loose knot of the expanded universe)has sent his concious to his past, and by don't interacting with Zack he changes the timeline so he lives.
So the ghosts of the future that Genesis has caused try to fix the timeline where Zack has been around from the beggining without us knowing.

So now we have FFXV/Dawn of the Future, KH3, Verum Rex and FFVII being about timelines, time travel and the same Nomura bullshit...
Sorry to say this, but i want him fired. His ideas are atrocious and he's using the same troppes in all the titles from the company. I despise that.

Edit (Still spoilers):
I've read online about the posibility that all this is less convoluted that it seems. The Whispers (Ansem Ropes) are not from any original timeline and are "just " ghosts of the dead people after the meteor crashes. Without their interference the protagonists ara bound to fail, so they keep Cloud and the rest from challenging Sephiroth knowing that if Aerith die, everything will be in vain and the world would die again.
So, the ghosts pull a final road block against the protagonists and challenge them to demostrate they're not capable, but that doesn't stop them and the ghosts accept their free will to challenge Sephiroth and Jenova.
And the scene with Zack is only a flashback of the past. Where Zack ends wounded and he finally dies minutes later by 3 Shinra goons with guns like in the original ending.
If this is the case, it's still an innecesary convoluted way to explain the story and has been portrayed in the worst way posible. Using scenes that replicate the Crisis Core ending where Zack dies during his army fight instead of later.
 
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Likes: Storm

Bazztek

SeeD A-Class
May 26, 2014
676
1,776
#9
The ending of FF7R brings down the entire game, and I'm not even the biggest FF7 fan even though I have the OG FF7 in my top 3 FFs, so I think FF7 diehards are going to take the ending especially bad.

The only people I can see defending this trashheap ending are Nomura fanboys and KH fanboys who are used to trash.

It's honestly kind of odd how hard they tried to market this as a "remake" when it's more of a sequel than an actual remake, as more and more people finish the game there is going to be growing backlash against it.

So many things are not even explained in the game, and a ton of things you wouldn't even know anything about unless you played the original FF7 or any of the Compilation FF7 stuff.

Like for example if you never played FF7 or FF7 Compilation stuff you have
No idea who the black haired soldier is with the Buster Sword, you don't even learn his name unless you have the subtitles on to see his name is Zack even though it's never spoken by anyone.
Sephiroth's motive is never explained, and it's never explained to anyone in the party why they are even going after Sephiroth either, as far as anyone knows Sephiroth was just a hero that disappeared 5 years ago, even after you fight him at the end the party never discuss who he actually is or what happened or why they're going after him.
It's never explained what the random headflashes that Cloud has are.
Hojo is about to say something to Cloud but then the time ghosts whisk him away before he can finish his sentence, if you never played the original you'd have no idea why what Hojo was about to say mattered.
There was a part in Deepground where Cloud sticks his head in a hole in the wall before the time ghosts push them away, if you never played Dirge of Cerberus you'd have no idea why this has any significance.
It's never explained how Barret got his gun arm.
It's never explained who Kunsel is who just gets randomly namedropped near the end.
It's never even explained what Jenova is.
Many shinra characters get so little screentime, like 1 or 2 cutscenes each it honestly feels like they have less story here in 7R than in the original, in particular with Rufus, Scarlet, Palmer, Reeves.
It's never explained what that cartoon cat looking thing is that just random rans on screen after the plates fall and shakes his fist in the air, that's the one and only scene of it in the entire game. If you never played the original you'd have no idea that is Cait Sith.

Some scenes from the original FF7 were completely cut, like the secret base under 7th heaven, in OG you as Cloud go down there and the story progresses but here in 7R you just see the other characters go down but you never see it physically yourself so you're completely left in the dark until they just vaguely mention what they talked about in a scene afterwards.



The scene of the party in Shinra prison was completely cut too.

There is a scene of Tifa in a cowgirl outfit crying over a man laying dead, it's never explained who this man is or what that scene means, it just happens randomly, if you never played the original you wouldn't even know that's Tifa's dad, maybe you could surmise it was her dad but it's never even stated who it is.
The first scene you ever see of Rufus in the game is the one in the 2nd last chapter and right before you fight him, after that he leaves, then he only has 2 other scenes which are in the last chapter, one looking at the time ghosts as he walks down some stairs, and the other at the very end where he sits on the office chair as he's now president of Shinra. Like he literally has less screentime than Ravus.

So many things are unexplained and rely on you having already played FF7 and seen things from the Compilation to make sense out of 7R, it's story is so full of holes and non explanations.
 
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Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
3,282
5,806
28
Switzerland
#10
I wonder if the alt-canon dlcs for XV were inspired by the direction they were going for with this remake... or if Versus itself would feature that..
hated back then, hated even more here.

Lost any respect I still had for Nomura/Nojima, they can work under directons of sane developers like Kitase, otherwise they are batshit insane when free.

Not only introducing those elements in a world already full of complex themes is dangerous, but the way it was introduced felt like the most childish fanfiction.

I dont feel like supporting this project anymore.

Imagine if they had done such a move on the LoTR movie adaptation, countless fans excited to see the classic story they love on screen and then BAM fighting fate, characters jumping through dimensions every minute and seeing the future, past being changed because reasons, possible time-travelling and alt-realities.

BULLSHIT even fans can come up with better stories than that.
 
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FFChocobo18

SOLDIER, First Class
Jan 9, 2017
994
1,349
#13
I wonder if the alt-canon dlcs for XV were inspired by the direction they were going for with this remake... or if Versus itself would feature that..
hated back then, hated even more here.

Lost any respect I still had for Nomura/Nojima, they can work under directons of sane developers like Kitase, otherwise they are batshit insane when free.

Not only introducing those elements in a world already full of complex themes is dangerous, but the way it was introduced felt like the most childish fanfiction.

I dont feel like supporting this project anymore.

Imagine if they had done such a move on the LoTR movie adaption, countless fans excited to see the classic story they love on screen and then BAM fighting fate, characters jumping through dimensions every minute and seeing the future, past being changed because reasons, possible time-travelling and alt-realities.

BULLSHIT even fans can come up with better stories than that.
I'm still gonna play this multi-part series, but only for game-play mainly, I just started fighting the Watchmen of Fate in Chapter 4, and I cringed so much, and I'm already dreading seeing this ending. If this were a new FF game or something, I probably wouldn't feel cringed by it or dreading it, but I agree, they shouldn't have done that in any remake like this one, it's like Nomura hates traditional remakes or something. I prefer Dawn of The Future over this alternate story in this remake, and the former I really liked when it was posted here on April last year.
 
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Likes: Storm

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
3,282
5,806
28
Switzerland
#15
man they crammed so many nonsensical tropes just during the last hour it feels like a parody, its like they were holding themselves up to that point but werent able to contain their madness.

yeah the swearing is a bit too much and cringy at times; apparently it happen less on japanese.
 
Likes: Lord_Ham_Mork

Bazztek

SeeD A-Class
May 26, 2014
676
1,776
#16
Does anyone feel put off by the swearing? Thankfully it isnt used very frequentely but I have been having a hard time seeing the characterd swearing.
Yeah, it feels really out of place, I played with JP audio so everytime I see the subtitles swearing I'm going "wtf they didn't say that". There is only one part where there is really explicit swearing in the JP version and it's with Madam M and it's played as a gag in the JP version because they bleep out all her swear words, but in the English one they just have her say "scum sucking piece of shit asshole" or something.

Here is another example of unnecessary swearing that doesn't even feel in character.

Then there is a part where Cloud says "Bring it on, bitch" to the Whispers near the end, when in Japanese he says "おまえの相手は 俺だ" which is just "Your opponent is me". Such an unnecessary change.
 
Likes: Storm

Lord_Ham_Mork

SOLDIER Second Class
Feb 23, 2018
343
583
27
#17
Okay, now that some days have passed, I can imagine good ways to make the narrative interesting for the next game, so i'm going to do a summary of a plot i can imagine working:
-Now the main party will follow the tracks of Zack(who survived) By having playable flashes of his journey through Aerith powers (and Cloud touching her). Like with Squall and Laguna.
-Following Zack the events will differ from the original game, and Aerith will not try to summon the white materia where she died.
But when we think we have reached him, we discover that he's in a different timeline and Zack dies against Sephiroth.
-The Wispers came from Zack's timeline and prepared everything so we save the world like in the original ending. But by having defied them, the protagonists can no longer follow that route. So Aerith will try to summon the white materia in the crater but Sephiroth will control Cloud (who's now really fucked up in his head by this time) making him kill her and throw themselve to the lifestream. Ending chapter 2.
-Chapter 3 will start with the story of the Zack of the actual timeline giving us the perspective of what really happened (A brief reliving of Crisis Core). And then proceeding to recover Cloud to march to an ending very faithfull to the original.

Also, it would be a good starting point for VII 2, to find Yuffie at the beginning so she steals all our belongings like in the original. Only this time we will no receive it back.

I prefer to start each part with the same lvl and equipement as everyone so the game keeps as balanced as the first remake.
 
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LeonBlade

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
Site Staff
Oct 25, 2013
2,019
1,851
28
Blossvale, New York
#19
The ending of FF7R brings down the entire game, and I'm not even the biggest FF7 fan even though I have the OG FF7 in my top 3 FFs, so I think FF7 diehards are going to take the ending especially bad.

The only people I can see defending this trashheap ending are Nomura fanboys and KH fanboys who are used to trash.

It's honestly kind of odd how hard they tried to market this as a "remake" when it's more of a sequel than an actual remake, as more and more people finish the game there is going to be growing backlash against it.

So many things are not even explained in the game, and a ton of things you wouldn't even know anything about unless you played the original FF7 or any of the Compilation FF7 stuff.

Like for example if you never played FF7 or FF7 Compilation stuff you have
No idea who the black haired soldier is with the Buster Sword, you don't even learn his name unless you have the subtitles on to see his name is Zack even though it's never spoken by anyone.
Sephiroth's motive is never explained, and it's never explained to anyone in the party why they are even going after Sephiroth either, as far as anyone knows Sephiroth was just a hero that disappeared 5 years ago, even after you fight him at the end the party never discuss who he actually is or what happened or why they're going after him.
It's never explained what the random headflashes that Cloud has are.
Hojo is about to say something to Cloud but then the time ghosts whisk him away before he can finish his sentence, if you never played the original you'd have no idea why what Hojo was about to say mattered.
There was a part in Deepground where Cloud sticks his head in a hole in the wall before the time ghosts push them away, if you never played Dirge of Cerberus you'd have no idea why this has any significance.
It's never explained how Barret got his gun arm.
It's never explained who Kunsel is who just gets randomly namedropped near the end.
It's never even explained what Jenova is.
Many shinra characters get so little screentime, like 1 or 2 cutscenes each it honestly feels like they have less story here in 7R than in the original, in particular with Rufus, Scarlet, Palmer, Reeves.
It's never explained what that cartoon cat looking thing is that just random rans on screen after the plates fall and shakes his fist in the air, that's the one and only scene of it in the entire game. If you never played the original you'd have no idea that is Cait Sith.

Some scenes from the original FF7 were completely cut, like the secret base under 7th heaven, in OG you as Cloud go down there and the story progresses but here in 7R you just see the other characters go down but you never see it physically yourself so you're completely left in the dark until they just vaguely mention what they talked about in a scene afterwards.



The scene of the party in Shinra prison was completely cut too.

There is a scene of Tifa in a cowgirl outfit crying over a man laying dead, it's never explained who this man is or what that scene means, it just happens randomly, if you never played the original you wouldn't even know that's Tifa's dad, maybe you could surmise it was her dad but it's never even stated who it is.
The first scene you ever see of Rufus in the game is the one in the 2nd last chapter and right before you fight him, after that he leaves, then he only has 2 other scenes which are in the last chapter, one looking at the time ghosts as he walks down some stairs, and the other at the very end where he sits on the office chair as he's now president of Shinra. Like he literally has less screentime than Ravus.

So many things are unexplained and rely on you having already played FF7 and seen things from the Compilation to make sense out of 7R, it's story is so full of holes and non explanations.
A lot of the stuff you say that isn't explained isn't explained in the original at this point in the game either. You don't need to know it's Tifa's dad to understand someone important in her life was killed. What would it matter if it was her dad, uncle, brother, friend? It changes nothing. There's no issues with the game introducing characters that have little screen time when they'll be back more in the next parts. Same with the Caith Sith cameo. Yes this is a new experience, but it's also a remake/reimagining. It's supposed to have little nods to fans who have played the original. Plus, if you don't know the original you'd see that and be like "who is that supposed to be" then you find out later it's Caith Sith... then you find out even later that it's Reeve. Wow, character progression and story development.

Anyway, I know people are shitting on the ending but personally I think it's fine. There's questions to be asked about what this means going forward, but I think a lot of people are taking it too extreme with their projections on what it means for the future of the game. I don't think this is some alternative universe thing. I do think that fate is destined to move in one direction and that we are managing to change it though. There are two outliers in this, one being Aerith and the other being Sephiroth.

Aerith is a Cetra and can commune with the planet. She seems to know a lot about the true threat to the planet (Sephiroth) but doesn't really know much more outside of that. Throughout the game she doesn't know what will happen in the next few minutes, everything happens before her like everyone else. Aerith is not from the future, she doesn't have full knowledge of the future. She has some idea of what is to come. This isn't any different from the original believe it or not. It is heavily implied that Aerith knew she was going to die in the original game. I believe this is purely an extension of this. At this point in time, it seems like Aerith knows there's a great threat to the planet (Sephiroth) and that she will possibly have to sacrifice herself.

As for Sephiroth, it's clear that he has real foresight into what's going to happen. Sephiroth is the true variable in this that is left up to interpretation on what this means for the story. How does he know the future? Clearly he's trying to change the past. I think the point of the Remake is that Sephiroth is trying to change what happens in the "original" game. He knows that he's going to be defeated, so this time he's back and he's changing it up. This causes the Arbiters of Fate to step in and try to intervene. This in turn also means that changes with the main cast happen as the normal events that take place are altered due to variables all around them shifting which means the Arbiters are constantly adjusting and changing things.

I think it's best to wait and see where the story takes us. I fully expect things to happen just as they always have but with a few twists here and there. Aerith is still gonna die one way or another. Meteor will get summoned. We're gonna stop it. Sephiroth will be defeated. How we come about these things will change. That's the nature of this remake. Think of the rest of the game and how well it handles the material. You can argue that the ending somehow ruins it, but I disagree. The ending is really separate from reality when you think about it. They are fighting something in another space entirely. They fight "fate" but what is fate exactly? What does it mean to defeat fate in this case? It isn't something that truly is physical. Sure there are the arbiters which can manipulate things, but that is a force acted upon by some guiding idea of what is destined to happen. By the party fighting this fate, it is more symbolic than it is a physical opponent. Just like Sephiroth here and in the original isn't really Sephiroth. It's parts of Jenova that are being controlled by Sephiroth's will. Cloud really doesn't fight Sephiroth at all here. He fights the force and the will of Sephiroth.

I could keep going like the visions he has and how that relates to all of this but I'm just gonna leave it here. I think if you look at the ending for more than what it is at face value you will see it more than just what some describe as "KH fanfic bullshit" which I disagree with, but instead an interesting way to conclude the first chapter of this remake.
 
Likes: Kagari

Bazztek

SeeD A-Class
May 26, 2014
676
1,776
#20
A lot of the stuff you say that isn't explained isn't explained in the original at this point in the game either.
Here's the difference though, this game is showing a bunch of things that happen way later on in the game much earlier, and being a "remake" they had even avenue to be able to actually explain those things now if they were going to shove them into the 1st part and make story changes, I mean they already changed so many other things so why not just properly explain the things actually shown here? This isn't a 1:1 story with the OG so the flaws of how unexplained nearly everything is in 7R do it no favours because those things will never be explained in FF7Remake, the game that released and that we've now played, while those things I mentioned earlier are explained in FF7 as a whole the game that released. If I have to wait for it to be explained in a future game then how is that not an inherent flaw in the storytelling of the game?

I mean how could I know they are even someone important to her? I could surmise it sure, but for all I know it was just some random guy that got killed and she felt sad because she found a dead body? What's even the point of showing that with no context when it doesn't even add anything to the actual narrative at this point? And that goes for so many other things from later points in FF7 that are now added here.

There is inherently a flaw since a game is supposed to stand on its own merits and not have to rely on being setup by other things, I mean is this not the very same "criticism" people levied against XV because of Kingsglaive content being before the game and people saying nothing "makes sense" without knowing the context of those things from the game which came later?

There being a single scene of Cait Sith at all makes no sense to anyone who just played it without knowing the OG, having to rely on "it'll be explained in a separate game I promise!" is not a good argument to fall back on and it's not a good story telling device either, it's hack shit, again 7R's story should be something that can stand on its own yet it cannot even muster that. If it was just put there to get OG fans to go "I CLAPPED I CLAPPED I RECOGNIZED THAT" then it's just a hollow addition.

When the party are confronting Sephiroth she explicitly states "you're wrong, everything about you is wrong", as if to imply she knows he's not from this time, in OG Aerith may have known her death was coming, but here she is aware that the Sephiroth they see does not belong in their world, because he quite literally isn't.

The Whispers of Fate when you fight them state they come from a future timeline, implying again alternate timeline, the scene with Zack at the end shows him living again indicating alternate timeline because the party had defeated the Whispers and are thus not "bound" by the original flow of fate, even the packet of chips with Stamp on it is explicitly shown in that Zack scene to show it's a different dog than the Stamp we see during the game, and it's shown in the scene where Zack has lived. Throughout the last encounter the party keep talking about how the future is a blank page and that the flashes in their heads they're seeing are a future that happens if they fail, which is the OG timeline and events, which they are actively fighting against, I don't see how it couldn't be any more apparent that it's no longer going to follow the events of OG 7, especially when many things from it now have no reason to even happen because of these new changes. Like what reason would they have to go to Kalm now? They've already seen "Sephiroth" so now the "mystery" surrounding him is completely lost too, seeing the Midgar Zolom wouldn't even mean anything anymore since we've literally seen Sephiroth throwing buildings at Cloud, the final confrontation with Cloud and Sephiroth in Cloud's head was already now done in Part 1, are they just going to do it AGAIN at the end of however many parts there are?

Also Cloud literally see's flashes of Aerith's from Advent Children from the clips of moments before her death and her Materia falling in the water, why would Cloud be having flashes of future events? Unexplained and that's even before Sephiroth shows the party flashes of events in the OG future, like Meteor or Nanaki with his cubs or Cloud laying Aerith in the water. Nanaki's words about the OG stuff they were shown being a future where they fail pretty explicitly means that the OG FF7 is now relegated to the "bad end" of FF7, and that 7R is now going to be the "true" end.

Making these pointless changes inherently undermines the entire story of FF7 and I don't know how anyone who calls themselves a fan of FF7 could defend such trash story writing, everyone calling it a bad KH fanfic is right.
 
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