Tabata's "new" gameplay idea for the 2019 DLC.

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Paperchampion23

Warrior of Light
Oct 1, 2016
1,190
1,465
24
#1
I just want everyone to know that this is entirely speculation but the idea hit me while discussing the concept in the main thread.

Anyway:

--
Ignoring Episode Aranea since it is called a "Side-Story" DLC, likely to please those of us that want more Niflheim overall (the characters, the continent, etc).

So, remember when Tabata constantly talked about how these new DLC would be part of a new gameplay idea that the series hasn't seen before? That Episode Ardyn would "poineer" this idea and the others would continue and follow suit? That all of them would connect on a "Thematic" level yet all 3 of these characters, even just based on the new descriptions for the episodes, dealing with entirely different things? That all of the DLC will be much more closely related to the main game unlike the previous character episodes which were more episodic, yet seemingly all 3 DLC are focusing either on Alternative story or leading to it?

Well I personally think the idea isn't all that new, and in fact, has been used before in other games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age; planned stories that connect to each other via choices made in a trilogy.

I'm actually not saying this is a bad thing though. This could actually be a great fucking idea if executed right.

What I think the DLC will be like, or can be like:

  • All 3 (Episode Ardyn, Luna, and Noctis) will have full canon parts to the DLC. Each will take place at a specific point in the game (Ardyn prior to the start of FFXV story wise, but perhaps taking place during the second half somewhere, Luna somewhere in the middle either before or after she dies, and Noctis also somewhere in the middle/during his sleep/I honestly have no idea where this could take place lol)
  • They will be integrated as special chapters into the base game, or at least thats still what I'm banking on.
  • At a certain point, or by the end of the DLC, each character will need to make a choice or choices, one that canonically falls in line with the main ending or does not (Example: Ardyn makes an evil choice at the end of his DLC = canon to the main game OR Ardyn makes a good choice at the end = alternative canon. Luna's canon ending is that she dies, or her Alternative ending is that she lives).
  • Most importantly, each DLC will affect the next. Or rather, Episodes Ardyn and Episode Luna will affect Episode Noctis (considering his is the finale DLC).
  • If you do ONLY the canon parts of the DLC and follow each ending canonically, Episode Noctis will end (or rather, will lead into) with the current ending the game gives you (basically best OG ending ever). Perhaps it will add a better Ardyn fight or an extended ending, but it will canonically be the same.
  • If you do the CANON endings for both Ardyn and Luna but then do the Alternative ending for Noctis, you'll get a "bad" (lets just call it that) ending. Noctis tries to revolt against the gods, ends up failing to beat Ardyn, and in the end, dies along with the rest of the world and Ardyn gets his revenge (just a random example I threw up)
  • If you do Ardyn's or Luna's ALTERNATIVE endings, but not Nocts, you could get some other interesting endings as well. If you do both of their alternative endings, you can get something different.
  • If you do all 3 DLC's ALTERNATIVE endings, you can achieve this new "Grand Finale" they are talking about.
  • With these 3 DLC, you can get 6 endings (1 is the main games, 4 of them are either bad or have different outcomes, the final one is the "good" ending they are pitching).
  • Most importantly, the 3 DLC must be played with only the canon content first if they are integrated into the story at any point. Once you beat the game and see the original ending, you can return to these "special chapters" and change up whatever you see fit, experiencing a new ending.
  • THIS is what I think Tabata could have meant by having this new DLC much more integrated into the story. The DLC will have canon parts such as Ardyn's past, Luna's conflict with Nocts fate (something we actually never got in the main game) and Noct's own conflictions about following the Astrals (something we also never got in the main game), and initially there will be no choices. However, upon playing the chapters again, you can unlock these alternative choices. This is why I also think they are releasing really close together in 2019, so firstly they can work out these kinks all to make sure each ending and concept works well together, and secondly to allow everyone to experience everything in a short amount of time because they all (save for Aranea most likely) depend on each other.
  • This is a great way to please everyone with more canon story that effectively extends the game for another 6-12 hours (+ Episode Aranea), further solidifying the DLC's significance into the main canon, while also giving us some fun, diverging plot changes that can shake up how the game is viewed.
Anyway this is what I'm thinking. The idea matches to alot of what Tabata has described this DLC with, but obviously things could be entirely different or a variation of anything like this.

Hope you all enjoyed lol.

Tl;dr: The "new" gameplay mechanic is a carry over feature in terms of story between the 3 DLC. 1 ending affects the rest and the main game. There will be new "canon" content, but a big focus will be achieving these new endings, especially the "Grand Finale" ending.
 
Last edited:

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,612
1,290
#2
Does that mean someone is stuffed if they only buy one, or two, of the DLC?

I will admit that it is a compelling incentive to get people to purchase all of the DLC. It also adds replay value so people can go back and choose a new route that opens up more gameplay elements if this is truly what's happening.

I don't know.. this was a great idea for games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age because, right from the very beginning, it was made clear that those would be the types of games where choices affected the outcome.

FFXV was always a single player (I'm not going to include Comrades), linear story, type of game.

It's perplexing to have this sort of game play style after the fact, where it's added so late into the game, and so long afterwards too.

I confess, this idea of yours did cross my mind at some point, but I put it out of my mind because at the time, I thought that the only way to get this done was if they introduced alternative stuff, which I thought they wouldn't do.

Sticking to their guns and specialising with a specific type of gaming experience, instead of opening the doors for anything and everything (mobile, mulitplayer, alternative endings, etc), would've been better imo.
 

Paperchampion23

Warrior of Light
Oct 1, 2016
1,190
1,465
24
#3
Does that mean someone is stuffed if they only buy one, or two, of the DLC?

I will admit that it is a compelling incentive to get people to purchase all of the DLC. It also adds replay value so people can go back and choose a new route that opens up more gameplay elements if this is truly what's happening.

I don't know.. this was a great idea for games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age because, right from the very beginning, it was made clear that those would be the types of games where choices affected the outcome.

FFXV was always a single player (I'm not going to include Comrades), linear story, type of game.

It's perplexing to have this sort of game play style after the fact, where it's added so late into the game, and so long afterwards too.

I confess, this idea of yours did cross my mind at some point, but I put it out of my mind because at the time, I thought that the only way to get this done was if they introduced alternative stuff, which I thought they wouldn't do.

Sticking to their guns and specialising with a specific type of gaming experience, instead of opening the doors for anything and everything (mobile, mulitplayer, alternative endings, etc), would've been better imo.

I definitely agree. This is just the only feasible thing I could come up with when connecting the DLC on a more thematic level:/ Obviously the choices in endings for the DLC don't have to be insane to the point that they'd either have to change half the main games story (Luna living or dying) prior to ending the game and getting an ending. I feel like they'll have much smaller effects (Ardyn and Luna's at least) while Noctis's is the huge game changer that alternates the ending canon.

I just don't see what else it could be without getting disappointed myself XDDD
 
Likes: Jubileus

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,612
1,290
#4
I definitely agree. This is just the only feasible thing I could come up with when connecting the DLC on a more thematic level:/ Obviously the choices in endings for the DLC don't have to be insane to the point that they'd either have to change half the main games story (Luna living or dying) prior to ending the game and getting an ending. I feel like they'll have much smaller effects (Ardyn and Luna's at least) while Noctis's is the huge game changer that alternates the ending canon.

I just don't see what else it could be without getting disappointed myself XDDD
Your OP makes logical sense though.

To be perfectly honest, I'd be surprised if it turns out to be something else, instead of what you guessed, since I have the same thoughts too lol.
 

Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
696
802
#6
Does that mean someone is stuffed if they only buy one, or two, of the DLC?

I will admit that it is a compelling incentive to get people to purchase all of the DLC. It also adds replay value so people can go back and choose a new route that opens up more gameplay elements if this is truly what's happening.

I don't know.. this was a great idea for games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age because, right from the very beginning, it was made clear that those would be the types of games where choices affected the outcome.

FFXV was always a single player (I'm not going to include Comrades), linear story, type of game.

It's perplexing to have this sort of game play style after the fact, where it's added so late into the game, and so long afterwards too.

I confess, this idea of yours did cross my mind at some point, but I put it out of my mind because at the time, I thought that the only way to get this done was if they introduced alternative stuff, which I thought they wouldn't do.

Sticking to their guns and specialising with a specific type of gaming experience, instead of opening the doors for anything and everything (mobile, mulitplayer, alternative endings, etc), would've been better imo.
Well, one reason for "opening the doors for anything and everything" might be that BD2 seems to function as a R&D arm for Squenix, and FFXV is the only platform they currently have with enough resources and fan interest to support what they want to do.

Maybe Tabata (or another potential director?) wants to try something like this in the future, and they figured that this was the best way to test the waters and develop the prerequisites that they need to make it work in their engine. *shrugs* I could certainly understand that, even if it isn't ideal from the perspective of a fan of FFXV specifically.
 

Paperchampion23

Warrior of Light
Oct 1, 2016
1,190
1,465
24
#8
that would be ideal in this case, maybe too ideal to even happen

- Luna having tenebrae
- and Noctis having pre-invasion Insomnia and more with Regis

those would be even better
Yeah, I definitely wrote it with what I would want obviously and not what I should expect lmao.

If it's anything like this, it will certainly be less substantial. The only things i hope for is each DLC having at least 2+ (I think we'll get roughly an ignis sized DLC or a little bigger for each) hours of gameplay/story each, having at least canon portions, and being integrated into the main game.


But even then, at least one of those things above is wishful thinking:/

We'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully someone will at least talk about how each will be incorporated, canonicity, and length at some point this year when all of them are being worked on.
 
Likes: Storm

Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
696
802
#9
Thinking about this a little more, conditioning the ideal ending on Ardyn's decision could go a long way to avoiding thematic sabotage.

If the "everyone lives" ending requires Luna and Noct to cooperate with a repentant Ardyn to allow Ardyn to carry out his initial mission as King of Light (in spite of the Astrals reluctance), it would fix the two biggest problems raised by the existence of alternate endings:

1) There'd be a very good reason why it couldn't happen in canon (canon Ardyn plus alternate Luna and Noct means disaster), and
2) The focus would be on mercy and redemption transforming sacrifice into an occasion of rebirth rather than on fighting fate, expanding on the Christian themes instead of undercutting them.
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,466
1,967
#10
Great thread, a lot more people should check out.

I quite like the idea of implementing special chapters in the main game, it would line up with what Tabata said about wanting to give incentive for players to go back and play the main game again.

I kinda wouldn't mind if the four upcoming DLCs also consolidated the notable free content updates to release upon their arrival, similar to the year one DLCs but not too spread out. At least that way the team wouldn't have to worry abour rushing a couple stuff to meet multiple deadlines.
 

Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
696
802
#11
Okay, how does this sound as a way of justifying the alternate grand finale?


1) Ardyn's episode explores his defiance towards the Astrals and the consequences that has for him. In the canon timeline, his bitterness is fully in control of him and he does something symbolically unforgivable; in the alternate timeline, he is able to manifest meaningful regret and wishes he could have fulfilled his proper role


2) Luna's episode explores the conflict between her obedience to her destined role and her desire to save Noct. She learns that she can do one of two things to avoid his annihilation -- either she can grant Noct the means to purify Ardyn in death and thereby gain the Crystal's favor or she can go for broke and attempt to save everybody by leading Noct to prod Ardyn back into his original role as King of Light.


3) Noct's episode explores the tension between Noct's desire to set everything right and his anger at Ardyn for all the pain he caused. In the end, he gets to choose what to do with Ardyn -- does he try to redeem him, or does he just wipe him out completely.


This would simultaneously develop a consistent set of themes while also allowing for different permutations. Ardyn's episode would determine whether he would consent to being redeemed, Luna's would determine whether Noct would seek Ardyn's consent in his own purification, and Noct's would determine whether he would attempt to show mercy (as determined by Luna's choice).


That would leave the following sets of outcomes:


- Canon: either Ardyn, Pragmatic Luna, Merciful Noct

- Three leads' souls sacrificed: either Ardyn, either Luna, Vengeful Noct
- World is doomed: Irredeemable Ardyn, Optimist Luna, Merciful Noct

- Alternate Grand Finale: Redeemable Ardyn, Optimist Luna, Merciful Noct


In other words, if Ardyn doesn't repent (as in canon), the canon ending is the best one can hope for... but if Luna tries to save everyone anyway, there's no good outcome. If Ardyn does repent, Noct can still mess it up and Luna can limit the best solution to the canon one, but the possibility is there for everyone to get what they want.