What is that, Ifrit? Diabolos? A random mook? I don't know! Third base!

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DrBretto

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Mar 18, 2016
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#1
http://imgur.com/YLksPED

For reference.

I am a terrible, terrible person for even bringing it up in the news thread and I do apologize. We should move all speculation for this issue here. There's no reason not to let some things just be their own thread. Please still tag anything from any "leaks" but let the rampant speculation commence.

Personally, my "most likely scenario stance is that it is Ifrit. I can see plenty of reason to believe it may not be, but that was my first impression and I stick with that until there's compelling reason to believe otherwise.

It also does, indeed, fit with the 4chan "leak" which I would love to not bring up, but I can't deny the coincidences. It's the unpopular opinion, but I still very much see the possibility that some of that info was based on reality, only run through a troll filter. If I thought there was a 5% chance of it not being totally fake a coupe of days ago, showing a scene of something that looks like Ifrit (whether it REALLY is or not wouldn't necessarily be relevant if it could be easily mistaken for him) in what looks like a boss fight in insomnia with the characters wearing the confirmed end-game outfits, then I have to bump that up a few notches.

You can flip a coin 5 times and get heads every time without any alarms going off. But once you start getting around 10 it'd be weird not to wonder if there's something up with that coin.
 

DrBretto

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Mar 18, 2016
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#4
I've seen that one mentioned a few times, and I can't rule it out, but it has pronounced wings and no legs, while the figure does not. And, as the representative of the Kingsglaive logo, I don't see why the bros would be fighting it. Unless, I suppose, they're not and it's on your side.
 

SonOfEtro

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May 2, 2016
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#6
I just had a mad thought. What if the Kingsglaive need to go through some kind of magical test to prove themselves worthy of sharing the Caelum line's powers and being part of the unit... That thing could be part of the challenge, hens it being part of their insignia and Prompty being in Kignsglaive attire. It could also be an entirely optional part of becoming a Kingsglaive member.

Don't really think its Ifrit. Way too skinny. Probably something quite innocuous in the final game like "Spirit of the Glaive" or something like that.
 
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Chocobocoholic

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Mar 29, 2016
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#7
I just had a mad thought. What if the Kingsglaive need to go through some kind of magical test to prove themselves worthy of sharing the Caelum line's powers and being part of the unit... That thing could be part of the challenge, hens it being part of their insignia and Prompty being in Kignsglaive attire. It could also be an entirely optional part of becoming a Kingsglaive member.

Don't really think its Ifrit. Way too skinny. Probably something quite innocuous in the final game like "Spirit of the Glaive" or something like that.
A trial of sorts would be interesting.

In regards to the topic, I don't see this being Diablos either. Wouldn't the party be sucked in by a gravity spell rather than facing a goodness, gracious, great wall of fire?
 

LeonBlade

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#8
I just had a mad thought. What if the Kingsglaive need to go through some kind of magical test to prove themselves worthy of sharing the Caelum line's powers and being part of the unit... That thing could be part of the challenge, hens it being part of their insignia and Prompty being in Kignsglaive attire. It could also be an entirely optional part of becoming a Kingsglaive member.

Don't really think its Ifrit. Way too skinny. Probably something quite innocuous in the final game like "Spirit of the Glaive" or something like that.
Something also to consider is that even Nyx has connections to the weird Daemon thing we see on the pin in some way. Note his attire in Kingsglaive. He has one horn that sticks out around his back/neck area on one side that resembles the same type of horn, of course much smaller.

Is this some shared connection with the pin? Why does only Nyx have it? It seems interesting to me that Nyx is known as this great warrior, and that perhaps that might explain his unique costume, but not its purpose.

As for my opinion on the daemon creature, I think it's just a daemon. I feel like all of the major summons in this game are going to be massive as they are guardians of the planet. It was also heavily implied that Ifrit lives in the Volcano near Solheim and would make a lot more sense than him randomly showing up in Insomnia. The astrals don't care about human affairs, they only care to protect the planet and have a much higher level of thinking than humans.

The only conclusion I can come up with as to why Ifrit would be at Insomnia is due to being forced to go there. The only way that could be true is if someone else convinced Ifrit to fight for their cause, but there doesn't seem to be any real possible way this can happen.

Keep in mind that the Astrals can speak to Noctis through his thoughts. Even back in Versus XIII days we saw the trailer with Noctis and Stella (RIP) talking and after she left we saw a mysterious unknown voice speaking to Noctis which couldn't be explained. It's likely that this is the same phenomenon that takes place when an Astral speaks to him. Whether that being was some sort of God or an Astral we can't say for sure, but one thing we do know is that the Astrals can speak to Noctis in his head.

Finally to touch back on the size thing, I have seen the counter argument used with Carbuncle being a small summon, but I believe that to be more due to the fact that Carbuncle is a summon that not only is designed to be much like how it's presented in other games (rather small and cute), but also that it will be able to be summoned in any location regardless of whether or not you're inside of an enclosed area like some building or a dungeon. One of the things Tabata mentioned was that when Astrals are summoned while inside of a dungeon they would perform a different animation like Ramuh throwing his staff instead of what they would normally do. Carbuncle is an Astral that could be summoned regardless of location and likely only do actions like buff the party or heal them up now and again, much like in the Platinum Demo.

Just to reiterate, I believe that only in special cases like Carbuncle would it make any sense for any of the Astrals to not be massive creatures. Think back to Episode Duscae two years ago (can you believe it's been that long) when after summoning Ramuh the other party members say things like "now I know why the tales are told".

These Astrals have likely been mostly myth and legend for the longest of time as they seem to all be sleeping hidden away until the events of FFXV take place. Leviathan is said to live in the waters around Altissia out of site. The fact that your party members would comment about the legends of these Astrals would imply that man has likely not seen these things in actions in hundreds maybe even thousands of years. However, they know that these creatures exist and that they are guardians of the planet, so each of the nations worship them in a way that pays respect to where each of the Astrals is said to protect, which explains why each nation has a sigil of a specific creature on it and has been the basis of many speculation for years now.

If these creatures are guardians of the planet, they need to be quite big, Carbuncle being an exception as it seems to be tied with dreams, and therefore serves a different purpose. I fully expect the major players like Ifrit, Shiva, Ramuh, Titan, Leviathan to be massive creatures (some of these already confirmed as we know).

So, that's my take on all of this.
 

DrBretto

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Mar 18, 2016
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#9
My only quibble:

It was said that there are Astral of all sizes and the size represents their tier or whatever. I'm butchering the wording. They even went as far as to say that Leviathan was of the highest order, given its size (though, please disregard this if that was the article writer's take, not Tabata himself). Titan and Ramuh are of a similar size, so that's already three huge ones.

In the post ED (no, I can't believe it's been 2 years) Genesis artwork, Titan, Ramuh and Shiva share a cloud, to me suggesting they are on the same level. But there's no Ifrit there.

It seems Plausible that most of the other ones are mid-sized. And it might even be a good thing. It means it can be a real boss fight and not a setpiece battle.

All in all, though, you made a ton of great points. Im still I'm the Ifrit camp, but you did increase the doubt margin.
 

Bites the dust

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Apr 14, 2015
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#10
The big problem that I have besides the points brought up by LeonBlade is that if this is Ifrit or Diabolos, and that if this is a late game battle, then it seems very off to me that you fight and defeat all these high tier summons throughout the game, only to be gated and challenged by a mid-tier or lower summon at the end? That seems kinda backwards to me.
 
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Sep 26, 2013
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#11
My only quibble:

It was said that there are Astral of all sizes and the size represents their tier or whatever. I'm butchering the wording. They even went as far as to say that Leviathan was of the highest order, given its size (though, please disregard this if that was the article writer's take, not Tabata himself). Titan and Ramuh are of a similar size, so that's already three huge ones.

In the post ED (no, I can't believe it's been 2 years) Genesis artwork, Titan, Ramuh and Shiva share a cloud, to me suggesting they are on the same level. But there's no Ifrit there.

It seems Plausible that most of the other ones are mid-sized. And it might even be a good thing. It means it can be a real boss fight and not a setpiece battle.

All in all, though, you made a ton of great points. Im still I'm the Ifrit camp, but you did increase the doubt margin.
The Astrals having tiers was a Nomura thing, not a Tabata thing. It hasn't been mentioned since 2013, and I sincerely doubt it's a thing anymore given the fact that Tabata calls the number of summons in the game potentially underwhelming. At this stage, I'd bet money that Astrals are Astrals, no tiers, and that this is indeed Ifrit. I'd also be willing to wager that despite his small size he packs just as much of a punch as his larger brethren. Open to being incorrect here, but the resemblance is uncanny.
 

LeonBlade

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#12
Open to being incorrect here, but the resemblance is uncanny.
...uncanny? Are you sure about that? It looks like a goat demon, not Ifrit.

By the way, this is the creature from the Amano art work most people assumed was Ifrit (myself included) or even Diablos (lol)


It's located around Titan and Leviathan, two other confirmed Astrals, as well as another girl who is most definitely Shiva (on top of Leviathan) given the color scheme with the blue.

This being has a tail though, which the one in the GIF does not, this creature looks to also stand on four legs instead of on its hind legs... essentially like this:
 
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Sep 26, 2013
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#13
...uncanny? Are you sure about that? It looks like a goat demon, not Ifrit.
I am sure! I don't think that's a snout, I think the figure's head is bowed. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise, though- is there an enemy from older Final Fantasies that looks like that and is strongly enough associated with fire to create that storm?
 

LeonBlade

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#14
I am sure! I don't think that's a snout, I think the figure's head is bowed. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise, though- is there an enemy from older Final Fantasies that looks like that and is strongly enough associated with fire to create that storm?
I edited my post with further details I forgot to include.

As for the amount of fire, we don't even know if this creature even caused this fire, besides, Noctis could make that much fire with Firaga I'm sure.
 
Sep 26, 2013
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#15
I edited my post with further details I forgot to include.

As for the amount of fire, we don't even know if this creature even caused this fire, besides, Noctis could make that much fire with Firaga I'm sure.
Yeeeeah I have no idea how it got circulated around that that creature is Ifrit when it's pretty clearly Bahamut. Especially when, if you look down and to the right away from that figure, there's a candidate that looks way more like Ifrit than that massive figure.
 

LeonBlade

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#16
Yeeeeah I have no idea how it got circulated around that that creature is Ifrit when it's pretty clearly Bahamut. Especially when, if you look down and to the right away from that figure, there's a candidate that looks way more like Ifrit than that massive figure.
Uh... if that's Bahamut, where are his fucking wings?

Also, if you think that's a lot of Fire in the GIF, it doesn't compare at all to this:

...or this...
 
Sep 26, 2013
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#17
It's just Amano stylization to keep the wings from taking up too much real estate on the image. You can clearly see spikes or otherwise jutting from his back which are probably meant to be his wings. And really, again, the character in the bottom right is way more of a dead ringer for Ifrit regardless of whether or not you find the first figure's design inconsistent with Bahamut. It just makes more sense that the potentially quadrupedal thick-tailed dragon-like figure with a snout is Bahamut and the more humanoid red figure with horns is Ifrit. Just as simple as that, to me.

I'm not really sure what you think those summoning animations are supposed to prove? Yeah, lightning burns stuff and leaves embers. That doesn't change the fact that the figure that could be Ifrit is still wreathed in pure billowing flame. Titan doesn't even have any open flame at all in his, just some molten stone.
 

LeonBlade

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#18
It's just Amano stylization to keep the wings from taking up too much real estate on the image. You can clearly see spikes or otherwise jutting from his back which are probably meant to be his wings. And really, again, the character in the bottom right is way more of a dead ringer for Ifrit regardless of whether or not you find the first figure's design inconsistent with Bahamut. It just makes more sense that the potentially quadrupedal thick-tailed dragon-like figure with a snout is Bahamut and the more humanoid red figure with horns is Ifrit. Just as simple as that, to me.

I'm not really sure what you think those summoning animations are supposed to prove? Yeah, lightning burns stuff and leaves embers. That doesn't change the fact that the figure that could be Ifrit is still wreathed in pure billowing flame. Titan doesn't even have any open flame at all in his, just some molten stone.
 

LeonBlade

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#20
I know you know how the two pieces of art are different man, so I'm not going to insult you by spelling it out. Care to address any other points?
I showed you an Ifrit that matches point for point with the one in the Amano artwork from FFXIV, three forward facing claws, stands on four legs, has a tail, two forward facing horns with spikes that poke out in the back, dark body with red accents, hell even the face on the creature looks like it has flames on it with the red patterns. You're telling me it doesn't make sense for Ifrit to be a quadruped and instead should be a biped, yet I showed you an image of Ifrit from XIV where it looks just like the one in the Amano artwork, so that point is invalid.

Show me your claim of Amano leaving out wings on Bahamut or any other dragon for the sake of space, otherwise you're just making shit up. Also, provide a cropped image of what you think Ifrit is in the Amano artwork as I don't see what you're referring to.