Explaining my stance on Final Fantasy XV

[1Truth2Lies]

OK, now I know I said the beef was squashed, but I will break down my stance with FFXV one final time. After this, people should be able to clearly understand why I'm pessimistic about the game. I want to set this straight so y'all can see where I'm coming from I why I'm not feeling FFXV.

Personally, I think my enthusiasm for FFXV extinguished once Nomura was completely removed from the project. There's absolutely no way this game will now be the same as it was originally intended. FFXII had a different situation: in that case, Hiroyuki Ito, who took over directing, was already co-directing the game with Matsuno from the game's inception in December 2000; Ito was working on FFXII from day one alongside Matsuno. The case with FFXV is completely different. Tabata wasn't even working on FFXV when it was still VersusXIII and Nomura was directing. From VersusXIII's inception in November 2005 all the way until June 2012, Tabata wasn't involved in the game in any capacity. Now he's come out of nowhere and completely taken over the game as director, even bringing in his entire Type-0 staff and giving them section leader positions on the game. Nomura and most of his VersusXIII staff have been forced off the project in the process. What happened to all the section leaders who were on VersusXIII when Nomura was directing? Why has Jun Akiyama (FFXII scenario director) been replaced by Hiroki Chiba ( Type-0 scenario director)?

Worse still, Tabata is outright changing shit:

• Tabata has changed Stella's name to Luna and had her hairstyle changed.
• Tabata has had Prompto's costume and hairstyle changed by Roberto Ferrari, who is another person who joined from Type-0.
• Tabata has reduced Cor's role to just a Guest party member, even though Nomura said he'd be a full party member.
• Tabata's has edited Nomura's script and removed all the complex Fabula Nova Crystallis terms and themes from the narrative and dialogue.
• Tabata's changed the KH battle system into something like Type-0, making only Noctis playable when Nomura promised all party members playable.
• Tabata's removed all the TPS gameplay that Nomura had planned for Prompto.
• Tabata's removed the controllable airship and made the car more important, saying it will act like the airship from past FF games.

Honesty, this isn't even the same fucking game Nomura promised! I'm sure the above list is just the tip of the iceberg, too. Anybody that really cared about Nomura (this was supposed to be his dream project and his loss of virginity for directing a FF game, a series he's been working on since FFIV) should rightfully voice their disdain. This is what I'm doing. I'm no Nomura fanboy (Hiroyuki Ito is my shit, yo), but I've been tracking this game since 2006 and know just how much Nomura cared about it. To see him ejected and somebody that wasn't even working on the game (or has even worked on a mainline FF before) taking over and changing shit to his liking is very disheartening.

Knowing Nomura, he probably doesn't give a fuck about FFXV anymore. As of TGS 2014 where SQEX made it public that Tabata had taken over directing since July 2012, you don't see Nomura in interviews and shit about FFXV. Even when asked about it, he doesn't want to talk about it. FFXV is like a girl he used to date, but is now dating some other dude. He cared about her when they were dating, but now she's with some other dude, he honestly just doesn't give a fuck about her anymore. To give you my view on it, I liked VersusXIII when she was still dating Nomura. I don't give fuck about her while she's now called FFXV and dating Tabata, no matter how much her recent botox with Luminous Studio has improved her looks. She's not the same girl Nomura dated and I honestly don't care about her now that Tabata's the one hitting her pussy.

 

[Hannibal_Khan]

Well it's not like he was given the boot for no good reason. Now i havent played any of tabata's games but at least it seams like he's gonna get XV out the door. The slow progress on XV(versus) while under nomura was just unacceptable. But he's still got KH, and maybe now he can start on that earlier than planned and get KHIII out faster than expected.
And Tabata not directing a mainline FF but still being given XV shouldn't bother you because Nomura hadn't directed one either.

I think XV looks good, not great mind-you it still feels like a spin-off. But more importantly, i just want it out of the way so we can be done with the FNC mytho's.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

Well it's not like he was given the boot for no good reason. Now i havent played any of tabata's games but at least it seams like he's gonna get XV out the door. The slow progress on XV(versus) while under nomura was just unacceptable. But he's still got KH, and maybe now he can start on that earlier than planned and get KHIII out faster than expected.
And Tabata not directing a mainline FF but still being given XV shouldn't bother you because Nomura hadn't directed one either.

I think XV looks good, not great mind-you it still feels like a spin-off. But more importantly, i just want it out of the way so we can be done with the FNC mytho's.

Well said. It's nice to read an unbiased and rational post on this forum for once. Kudos, bro.

I agree that Nomura was working at a glacial pace when directing, but that still doesn't change the fact that Tabata is changing the game now he's in the director seat. Also, I agree with you about wanting FFXV out the door ASAP. I'm honestly tired of the game, as we've known about it since 2006. I want to see something brand new from the mainline FF series. Something we've never seen before, which is not a renamed FFXIII spin-off originally announced for PS3. I want to see FFXVI.

 

[Hannibal_Khan]

I still hope Nomura gets another chance, but he needs to learn some lessons from his Versus experience. He needs to get a clear vision of what he wants his FF to be, and be decisive in his decision making.
Remember when he said he wanted to make Versus a musical b/c he was inspired by les miserable?....in 2012! after the game had been announced for 6 yrs and most ppl thought the development had alread started lol.
THis infuriated me! not b/c im against the idea but damn, you cant just change the concept of game after 6 yrs.

I like nomura, i think he has a whimsical mind that has served FF well, but if hes gonna be a Director he's gotta put on the grown up pants and be a leader once in a while too.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

I still hope Nomura gets another chance, but he needs to learn some lessons from his Versus experience. He needs to get a clear vision of what he wants his FF to be, and be decisive in his decision making.
Remember when he said he wanted to make Versus a musical b/c he was inspired by les miserable?....in 2012! after the game had been announced for 6 yrs and most ppl thought the development had alread started lol.
THis infuriated me! not b/c im against the idea but damn, you cant just change the concept of game after 6 yrs.

I like nomura, i think he has a whimsical mind that has served FF well, but if hes gonna be a Director he's gotta put on the grown up pants and be a leader once in a while too.

I honestly doubt Nomura will ever direct a FF game again after his tormenting VersusXIII experience. He'll like just stick to directing KH games and only designing characters for FF games from now on.

 

[Sora96]

Most of Nomura's team wasn't kicked off. The gameplay team (most of the KH team) and the cinematic team (Advent Children team) were merged into the XV team.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

You can never know that. That is only because Nomura has been working on that project for almost a decade. He will definitely get another opportunity in the future but I don't know when exactly. I doubt he will be in the same situation as before.
A totally brand new FF project to work on will be totally fine for Nomura so long he is aware of the scale of how a mainline FF game is, he's ready to go.

You misunderstand.

Nomura has always said that VersusXIII would be his first and only FF game as director. After which, he'd begin to focus on directing mainline KH games. The fact he has been booted off the game and told to focus on KH is proof that he's now been marginalised by management. The irony is that he was always going to focus on KH after he finished VersusXIII. It's because he was taking so fucking long with VersusXIII that management stepped in and booted him off the project and have now forced him to focus on directing the mainline KH series from now on.

Most of Nomura's team wasn't kicked off. The gameplay team (most of the KH team) and the cinematic team (Advent Children team) were merged into the XV team.

Nope. Check the current core staff list for FFXV. There have been changes across the board. It's only the Advent Children team that are still on board for the CGI movies. The members of the actual in-game stuff (the KHI/KHII team) have all been ejected from the project with Nomura.

 

[Sora96]

You misunderstand.

Nomura has always said that VersusXIII would be his first and only FF game as director. After which, he'd begin to focus on directing mainline KH games. The fact he has been booted off the game and told to focus on KH is proof that he's now been marginalised by management. The irony is that he was always going to focus on KH after he finished VersusXIII. It's because he was taking so fucking long with VersusXIII that management stepped in and booted him off the project and have now forced him to focus on directing the mainline KH series from now on.


Nope. Check the current core staff list for FFXV. There have been changes across the board. It's only the Advent Children team that are still on board for the CGI movies. The members of the actual in-game stuff (the KHI/KHII team) have all been ejected from the project with Nomura.

If that's the case, where on earth did they go?

Tabata clearly said in an interview the gameplay, cinematics and engine teams were merged together.

"We re-examined Final Fantasy XV’s development structure,” he said. We had the gameplay team, the cinematics or CG team, and the game engine team. And we finally merged them all together to work on this game."
http://www.novacrystallis.com/2014/09/final-fantasy-xv-is-50-60-percent-complete/

 

[1Truth2Lies]

If that's the case, where on earth did they go?

I think they've begun working on KHIV. I'm pretty sure Square Enix management will want KHIV released within two years of KHIII, which the Osaka team has been making.

 

[LeonBlade]

OK, now I know I said the beef was squashed, but I will break down my stance with FFXV one final time. After this, people should be able to clearly understand why I'm pessimistic about the game. I want to set this straight so y'all can see where I'm coming from I why I'm not feeling FFXV.

Personally, I think my enthusiasm for FFXV extinguished once Nomura was completely removed from the project. There's absolutely no way this game will now be the same as it was originally intended. FFXII had a different situation: in that case, Hiroyuki Ito, who took over directing, was already co-directing the game with Matsuno from the game's inception in December 2000; Ito was working on FFXII from day one alongside Matsuno. The case with FFXV is completely different. Tabata wasn't even working on FFXV when it was still VersusXIII and Nomura was directing. From VersusXIII's inception in November 2005 all the way until June 2012, Tabata wasn't involved in the game in any capacity. Now he's come out of nowhere and completely taken over the game as director, even bringing in his entire Type-0 staff and giving them section leader positions on the game. Nomura and most of his VersusXIII staff have been forced off the project in the process. What happened to all the section leaders who were on VersusXIII when Nomura was directing? Why has Jun Akiyama (FFXII scenario director) been replaced by Hiroki Chiba ( Type-0 scenario director)?

Worse still, Tabata is outright changing shit:

• Tabata has changed Stella's name to Luna and had her hairstyle changed.
• Tabata has had Prompto's costume and hairstyle changed by Roberto Ferrari, who is another person who joined from Type-0.
• Tabata has reduced Cor's role to just a Guest party member, even though Nomura said he'd be a full party member.
• Tabata's has edited Nomura's script and removed all the complex Fabula Nova Crystallis terms and themes from the narrative and dialogue.
• Tabata's changed the KH battle system into something like Type-0, making only Noctis playable when Nomura promised all party members playable.
• Tabata's removed all the TPS gameplay that Nomura had planned for Prompto.
• Tabata's removed the controllable airship and made the car more important, saying it will act like the airship from past FF games.

Honesty, this isn't even the same fucking game Nomura promised! I'm sure the above list is just the tip of the iceberg, too. Anybody that really cared about Nomura (this was supposed to be his dream project and his loss of virginity for directing a FF game, a series he's been working on since FFIV) should rightfully voice their disdain. This is what I'm doing. I'm no Nomura fanboy (Hiroyuki Ito is my shit, yo), but I've been tracking this game since 2006 and know just how much Nomura cared about it. To see him ejected and somebody that wasn't even working on the game (or has even worked on a mainline FF before) taking over and changing shit to his liking is very disheartening.

Knowing Nomura, he probably doesn't give a fuck about FFXV anymore. As of TGS 2014 where SQEX made it public that Tabata had taken over directing since July 2012, you don't see Nomura in interviews and shit about FFXV. Even when asked about it, he doesn't want to talk about it. FFXV is like a girl he used to date, but is now dating some other dude. He cared about her when they were dating, but now she's with some other dude, he honestly just doesn't give a fuck about her anymore. To give you my view on it, I liked VersusXIII when she was still dating Nomura. I don't give fuck about her while she's now called FFXV and dating Tabata, no matter how much her recent botox with Luminous Studio has improved her looks. She's not the same girl Nomura dated and I honestly don't care about her now that Tabata's the one hitting her pussy.

I don't know the inner workings of what went on in Square Enix to make this game's development hell, but I can say that Tabata taking control has done a lot of good for the game's publicity. When the series creator tells you that the game is taking too long, it's rather embarrassing.

That being said, there are a few things we don't know for sure that you outline:

• Luna is Stella I don't see what the point of changing her name then being elusive about it, it's got to be more complicated than that.
• Prompto changes I don't care if Prompto has design changes or not, that doesn't really matter to me.
• Cor's role We still have no idea how important Cor is to the game, you are only guessing.
• Removing FNC This was bound to happen given that it it's not Versus XIII anymore, but XV.
• Battle system I honestly feel like this was the best change made, it seems like it will play like KH but better from what I can see.
• Removing TPS/switching I don't really care about this feature, others do though.
• Removing airship Again not confirmed in any way, just more speculation.

This is how I personally interpret what Nomura promised. A game about Noctis and his friends in a story about getting the crystal back. There was going to be an action battle system, you were going to have large field screens, there were going to be summons in the game, the game was going to be more mature in how the story was told.

Those are the key points that Nomura mentioned when talking about this game that got me excited, and all of those core features are STILL in the game. Does it suck that Nomura isn't directing the game anymore? Yeah, it does, but I have faith in Tabata and I like the open nature of Tabata showing us things. Nomura will still be directing KH3, another game I'm really looking forward to.

At the end of the day, I care about playing a good fun Final Fantasy game, that's what's important to me. Just because things were changed from what Nomura has originally planned, doesn't mean that the game would somehow fail.

As for the ending bit about XV/Versus XIII being like a girl, I just think that analogy is a bit excessive, he's likely not talking about XV because no one is really asking him apart from the first announcement, and it's something he can't talk about and he probably isn't happy about it. Again, we don't know why, so it's left for us to speculate.

Ultimately I'm looking forward to XV and the future of Final Fantasy to get a FRESH Final Fantasy game, I want to know what that's going to be like, when XVI is announced, what is that game going to look like, what will the cast be like. As much as I'm looking forward to XV, it feels old because of how long the development time has taken, XVI is something I'm looking forward to as well to feel like "wow finally a NEW game".

 

[1Truth2Lies]

As for the ending bit about XV/Versus XIII being like a girl, I just think that analogy is a bit excessive, he's likely not talking about XV because no one is really asking him apart from the first announcement, and it's something he can't talk about and he probably isn't happy about it. Again, we don't know why, so it's left for us to speculate.

Ultimately I'm looking forward to XV and the future of Final Fantasy to get a FRESH Final Fantasy game, I want to know what that's going to be like, when XVI is announced, what is that game going to look like, what will the cast be like. As much as I'm looking forward to XV, it feels old because of how long the development time has taken, XVI is something I'm looking forward to as well to feel like "wow finally a NEW game".

Regarding my girl analogy, I think it's spot on, though a little vulgar. I'm certain that from now until release, we won't see a single interview with Nomura about FFXV. This is despite the man creating the original concept, writing the base story, and designing the main characters. He has distanced himself from the title since being forced off it. That's why he refused to talk about the issue when Famitsu asked him about it.

As I've said before, I'm sure FFXV will be a good game, but it's simply not doing it for me anymore. In real life, I have a very short girlfriend turnover. I've never dated the same girl for more than 1 year, because I get bored speaking to the same girl and hitting the same pussy very quickly. I feel the same way about anticipating video games. FFXV is a game I've been tracking since 2006, and it's been so long now that I just don't care about it anymore. I'm bored of it and want the next mainline FF. Nomura being booted off the project and all the changes Tabata is introducing has only made me want the game even less. Besides, this is a game that was announced before the PS3 and Wii were even released. Think about that for a moment. It has been that long!

As you say, even if FFXV turn out to be great, we need something FRESH from mainline Final Fantasy. We need to have FFXVI announced soon. Not only does it need to be announced, but it needs to have a fucking epic trailer that blows the minds of the viewers. People need to get those goosebumps they get when they lose their virginity of seeing a new mainline FF for the first time. The last single-player, mainline FF announcement was in 2006, where both FFXIII and FFXV were announced. We are approaching almost 10 years since then! That being the case, I really hope FFXVI is announced in 2017 (FF 30th Anniversary) and has a fucking amazing announcement event that is streamed online. Square Enix should make the announcement event as big and extravagant as the annual Victoria's Secret Fashion Show. I'm being serious; they really need to go all out with it.

 

[Crystal Power]

I'm looking forward to FFXV, but I'm really looking forward to seeing something new and fresh. I do get excited just thinking about what we might see in FFXVI, I actually hope it's similar to FFVI, VII, or VIII. Most of all I would love the return of turn based battles.

 

[Lulcielid]

Regarding my girl analogy, I think it's spot on, though a little vulgar. I'm certain that from now until release, we won't see a single interview with Nomura about FFXV. This is despite the man creating the original concept, writing the base story, and designing the main characters. He has distanced himself from the title since being forced off it. That's why he refused to talk about the issue when Famitsu asked him about it.

As I've said before, I'm sure FFXV will be a good game, but it's simply not doing it for me anymore. In real life, I have a very short girlfriend turnover. I've never dated the same girl for more than 1 year, because I get bored speaking to the same girl and hitting the same pussy very quickly. I feel the same way about anticipating video games. FFXV is a game I've been tracking since 2006, and it's been so long now that I just don't care about it anymore. I'm bored of it and want the next mainline FF. Nomura being booted off the project and all the changes Tabata is introducing has only made me want the game even less. Besides, this is a game that was announced before the PS3 and Wii were even released. Think about that for a moment. It has been that long!

As you say, even if FFXV turn out to be great, we need something FRESH from mainline Final Fantasy. We need to have FFXVI announced soon. Not only does it need to be announced, but it needs to have a fucking epic trailer that blows the minds of the viewers. People need to get those goosebumps they get when they lose their virginity of seeing a new mainline FF for the first time. The last single-player, mainline FF announcement was in 2006, where both FFXIII and FFXV were announced. We are approaching almost 10 years since then! That being the case, I really hope FFXVI is announced in 2017 (FF 30th Anniversary) and has a fucking amazing announcement event that is streamed online. Square Enix should make the announcement event as big and extravagant as the annual Victoria's Secret Fashion Show. I'm being serious; they really need to go all out with it.

Speaking of freshy things, how much "fresh" can you make the next mainline FF ? Gameplaywise FFXV is the most fresh thing you have right now and then you either have full.turnbase or ATB variations.
How much fresh can you make the settings like middleagesque(FFI-V,FFXIV?),cyberpunk(FFVII),SciFi(FFXIIIsaga),modern(FFVIII,FFXV),steampunk(FFVI), old meets new like setting (FFX,FFXII)

 

[1Truth2Lies]

Speaking of freshy things, how much "fresh" can you make the next mainline FF ? Gameplaywise FFXV is the most fresh thing you have right now and then you either have full.turnbase or ATB variations.
How much fresh can you make the settings like middleagesque(FFI-V,FFXIV?),cyberpunk(FFVII),SciFi(FFXIIIsaga),modern(FFVIII,FFXV),steampunk(FFVI), old meets new like setting (FFX,FFXII)

The setting isn't important. They can just throw loads of time periods and locations in one FF game. For example, FFX was almost exclusively South-East Asian, but FFXVI could be mainly Baroque (like FFXII), but have loads of different exoctic locatios based on other countries and time periods.

As for the battle system, it can only be fresh by building off FFXII. I honestly believe that game showed the future direction of mainline FF. Also, Kitase has already hinted that FFXVI will have battles with loads of party members being playable (30+ party members fully controllable in battle). That itself will be a huge leap for the series, especially coming off FFXV where only Noctis will be playable.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

You must also understand that his word is not absolute. Even if he said those words to the public, he can always change his mind. I already know the situation with Versus XIII as well.

I'm sure his word is absolute. He wouldn't have said VersusXIII would be his first and last FF game as director if he didn't really mean it. Even if he changed his mind in the future, there's no way he'd be able to direct another FF game due to how he's now dedicated to directing mainline KH games.

The way I see it, all future mainline FF games after FFXV will be made alternately by Kitase/Toriyama team and Hiroyuki Ito team. Nomura is now focused on mainline KH, while Tabata will begin to focus on the Type sub-series.

 

[LeonBlade]

Also, Kitase has already hinted that FFXVI will have battles with loads of party members being playable (30+ party members fully controllable in battle)

How the fuck would you control 30+ party members in battle at once? Also, how would you actually flesh out any of those characters to actually have meaningful roles other than just warriors. I don't want to have that many party members in battle, it's way too excessive.

 

[Myrodis19]

That sounds way too much of an RTS game. I don't want to see that in Final Fantasy at all.

I agree. Plus i don't think the higher ups would agree to this. Maybe try the 30+ party members in a Type- sequel.

 

[1Truth2Lies]

Doubt it on the Nomura thing but Ill stop discussing about it now. We will just be going around in circles here if we continue.

That I wouldn't mind seeing. I trust in their skills including Toriyama..... He just needs a little more 'polishing', that's all.

You're only doubting the situation about Nomura due to your blind optimism, which I've already called out as problem with some users here. The man has already outright said that VersusXIII would be his first and last FF as director, as after it he wants to dedicate himself to directing mainline KH. Considering he's now been removed from the project and doesn't even want to talk about it in interviews, that makes it even more likely that he'll never return to direct another FF.

Also, it's funny how people like you say Toriyama needs polishing. The man directed FFX, which is one of the most popular games in the mainline series. Toriyama is fine. It wasn't even his idea to make FFXIII have linear maps and no towns to explore. You can blame Kitase for that.

How the fuck would you control 30+ party members in battle at once? Also, how would you actually flesh out any of those characters to actually have meaningful roles other than just warriors. I don't want to have that many party members in battle, it's way too excessive.

I actually like Kitase's idea. I think it will bring a new breed of freshness to the FF battle system. Also, if you didn't know, you were actually controlling parties of 25 people in battle system of The Last Remnant. If you've read my FFXVI theory, you'll know that I've speculated that this team is actually working on FFXVI alongside the FFXII team.

Here's a quick battle from The Last Remnant to show you how a battle system with 25 party members could work:

I agree. Plus i don't think the higher ups would agree to this. Maybe try the 30+ party members in a Type- sequel.

Why wouldn't they agree? That have outright said mainline FF is supposed to always keep challenging to do new things. You remind me of the people that once said mainline FF should never be a MMO (FFXI), or have seamless battles (FFXII), or be an Action RPG (FFXV).

 

[Skye]

Worse still, Tabata is outright changing shit:

• Tabata has changed Stella's name to Luna and had her hairstyle changed.
• Tabata has had Prompto's costume and hairstyle changed by Roberto Ferrari, who is another person who joined from Type-0.
• Tabata has reduced Cor's role to just a Guest party member, even though Nomura said he'd be a full party member.
• Tabata's has edited Nomura's script and removed all the complex Fabula Nova Crystallis terms and themes from the narrative and dialogue.
• Tabata's changed the KH battle system into something like Type-0, making only Noctis playable when Nomura promised all party members playable.
• Tabata's removed all the TPS gameplay that Nomura had planned for Prompto.
• Tabata's removed the controllable airship and made the car more important, saying it will act like the airship from past FF games.

I can agree that Stella's may be renamed.
When did Tabata changed the storyline and removed the FNC mythology, is Etro not going to appear on FFXV?!

 

[1Truth2Lies]

I can agree that Stella's may be renamed.
When did Tabata changed the storyline and removed the FNC mythology, is Etro not going to appear on FFXV?!

Tabata hasn't changed the story, but he's edited the script and dialogue to remove all mention of Fabula Nova Crystallis and its themes. Therefore, Etro won't be referred to by her actual name. She'll probably just be called "Goddess of Death" or something like that, much like how Bhunivelze is mostly just called "God" throughout LR FFXIII.