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Consumer brawn over logic.

Discussion in 'Final Fantasy Discussion' started by xXShuyaXx, Jan 4, 2017.

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  1. Fireryu

    Fireryu Yevonite

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    I know PC gaming has it's advantages but here's the thing I don't care!" I prefer consoles. it's a preference. 'I'm happy enough with my gaming choices.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  2. Nova

    Nova AVALANCHE Warrior

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    When many people are too bloody dense to understand the difference between shipped-sold numbers & sell-through percentages.

    Every.Single.Fucking.Time.
     
  3. T.O.T

    T.O.T Clan Centurio Member

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    I get triggered when some people call X-2, XIII-2, and LR spin off games. *sigh*
     
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  4. Jubileus

    Jubileus AVALANCHE Warrior

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    When people seriously think the game was in constant development for 10 years straight.

    Seeing a lot of these kinda comments in FFXV Facebook posts lately and it's a clusterfuck of bashing and abuse.
     
  5. Hey Everyone

    Hey Everyone ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I think a lot of it comes from Duke Nukem Forever, that's probably the reason why people think this game was in development for 10 years straight, but tbh a lot of that is Square's fault, they showed the game WAY earlier than they should have.
     
  6. Jubileus

    Jubileus AVALANCHE Warrior

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    While true that showing a trailer way too early is never a good idea, I think they really did believe that they could've gotten it out in time, hence why they showed said trailers to begin with.

    All I can say is, shit happens and things don't go to plan, which was the case here.

    For a game that was in development for 3 years, it's pretty great all flaws aside. The fact that they made it so much fun to play is an accomplishment in and of itself story issues notwithstanding.
     
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  7. Fireryu

    Fireryu Yevonite

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    I agree it FFXV does have story issues which is why i gave it I ranking of 6 for story. If the fixes the story issues tthe ranking will go up. Yeah as it stands FFXV is a very fun game which is why I gave it a ranking of 1 for gameplay.
     
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  8. Rin

    Rin Backlog Connoisseur Staff Member Moderator Site Staff

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    FFXV was rushed.
     
  9. Hey Everyone

    Hey Everyone ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Still shouldn't have shown Versus if it was not even remotely ready to be shipped, I mean is it really so hard to get a game 90 percent developed before showing it off to the public?
     
  10. Jubileus

    Jubileus AVALANCHE Warrior

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    Indeed it was. Sane, rational fans have no trouble admitting to that from what I've observed. We're mostly interested in how SE handles the story patches from here on out.

    Well, since I'm not a game developer, I'm not too familiar with the decision making process of when to release trailers for a game, so I'm not sure why that is.

    Again, this goes back to the team originally having confidence and belief that development would've went smoothly, and them showing an early concept trailer was their way of showing said confidence.

    I will say this though - creators don't wait for something to be perfect before execution. They just do. They do the adjustments and everything else after the fact, otherwise they'd never get started at all.

    I guess from the creators perspective, he was very excited about the concept for his upcoming project and wanted to share it with other with every intention of following through on what was shown, but as we know, stuff happened.

    If you look at it this way (from a creators point of view), perhaps you can see why they released the trailer early. He wanted others to share in the excitement with him and go on the creative journey with him as he makes the game.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  11. Jenova

    Jenova ShinRa SOLDIER

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    It's fun so you gave it a 1/10? Yikes.
     
  12. Hey Everyone

    Hey Everyone ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I'm fine with creations having imperfections, but as it stands you could practically make two earths out of Final Fantasy XV, the Versus world, and the FFXV we have now hell I think Versus XIII could even fit as a sequel to XV. This is why I appreciate Fallout 4's marketing.

    That game was announced 6 months before release, and honestly the game is much better for it, no director strife(Nomura vs Tabata), no drastic jarring changes in vision(shifts from a game with multiple sequels in mind to one game, changes characters around, removes events like the Citadel fight, removes characters, just some significant story changes right before our eyes people), some disappointment yes, but I've never seen disappointment in Fallout 4 to which I've seen for XV, to the point where there are fucking petitions to bring back the Versus project, where rumors are flying about of Versus XV, and people actually wanting that, and tbh Square has no excuse with FFXV, they cancelled Versus fine, but don't turn around and announce FFXV in 2013 when it might not have been ready at the time to ship, they followed the same damn mistake, they announced it too early.

    It's not even about confidence at this point it's sheer stupidity. I'm not saying that creators release a trailer the day off the game, no, but at least release a trailer for a game, that has solidity to it again look at Fallout 4 imagine if Square did something like that with Versus XIII, or FFXV, it's not like Bethesda didn't start Fallout 4 and developed it in 6 months, no they were developing the game for years poured there heart and soul into the game, and didn't share anything about it until realistically they knew that they could get it out, Square should have done the same damn thing, this isn't about getting it perfect it's about being realistic.


    When can we get it out 2016, ok then let's show it in 2015, let's learn our lesson from Versus XIII and not get overconfident in the game releasing in 2014, and show it off when it's near ready for release, have plan, just like Bethesda.

    If they just had simply done that, there wouldn't be no Final Fantasy Versus XV reboot petition, there would be no Final Fantasy Versus XV reboot rumors, there would be no Nomura flogging, or Tabata flogging, there would be no Final Fantasy XV fans, vs. Final Fantasy Versus XIII fans, Nomura can't finish games wouldn't be a thing, Tabata ruined Nomura's vision wouldn't be a thing, there would be no Stella vs Luna, there would be no Versus XIII Noctis vs XV Noctis, if FFXV even then, if they did what I think they should do from now on, still released the way it did now, there would be some disappointment, but not to the extent that you have a entire group of people that look at old trailers and feel dissatisfied with the final product, you won't have people wishing it was like the 2011 trailer in terms of combat, character switching, and magic system, you wouldn't have anyone wishing FFXV was just it's own game unrelated to Versus XIII, and the FNC, there would be no petitions to get Nomura back to direct, there would be no Versis XV rumors, and even if there were only 10 people might care, because we wouldn't have ever been shown Versus XIII, it would've just been Final Fantasy XV, people would've played that and much easier would be willing to move on to XVI.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  13. T.O.T

    T.O.T Clan Centurio Member

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    Aren't these situations like hella different? Sure, I'll say that Fallout 4 being announced with 6 months out was great, but I am pretty sure I saw some posts online about people themselves having to fix a good number of the bugs/glitches in the game. I would not be surprised if a few of those were game breaking. Also, I'm pretty sure Fallout 4 had more in common with its past numbers than FFXV had in common with its past numbers.
    - Some people were going to be angry because the game wasn't going to be turn based.
    - Some people were going to be angry because the game didn't have enough diversity for them.
    - Some people were going to be angry because they put all of their beliefs on a concept that never fully developed (e.g. Stella).

    Keep in mind, the FF fanbase is far far far more diverse than the Fallout fanbase. Given everything, I feel the end result turned out positive for the most part.

    I really really hope that Nomura doesn't pull the same stuff with FFVII:R and KHIII, but I got a feeling he might.
     
  14. Hey Everyone

    Hey Everyone ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I wouldn't call Fallout 4 a different situation, yes I'm very aware of the FF fanbase being different, but this doesn't change a thing I say, I bring up Fallout 4 because they showed it when it was near ready to ship, and quite frankly the game itself released fine, there were bugs and glitches on the console versions, but the PC Version was running decent. Final Fantasy XV showed itself too early when it clearly wasn't ready for it to be shown off, hell same goes for Versus XIII. In fact everything about the shown before ready to ship goes to your point they didn't need to show those concepts, they didn't need to show them at all just show stuff that developed as is. I doesn't matter if it's Fallout 4 I only used it as an example because it was the closest I knew.

    The other two don't matter as much because Final Fantasy titles can always go to turn based again there is no rush, hell there is a turned based Final Fantasy title it's called World of Final Fantasy, so those people are good, there are also the old titles they can play if they want turn based FF games.
    The ones that complained about diversity go in the same category if you want it older FF titles, or World of FF.
    However it's the Versus people that get screwed over the most in this scenario, because they will never be satisfied, they will never find out if Versus XIII was going to be good, or if it was going to be bad, they will never see where Stella was going to go, they are never going to see a FF title with Kingdom Hearts like combat that includes the power to warp strike like a friggin badass. They will never get to see how the FNC would have been used, which tbh as much as I rag on XIII, I do like the Mythos just not the way it was told, Type-0 did a much better job a being understandable than FFXIII was, it would have been interesting to see how the director of very prestigious titles tackle the situation. This is where the shouldn't have shown until they were close to ready to ship comes into play, if that wasn't promised before hand no one would complain, but the fact they saw so much, so much of it looking good and I personally and a lot of people would have wanted to see fleshed out, and know that it may never see the light of day, especially after that hype E3 2013 trailer, it kinda sucks for them.
    In fact I remember there being a time where Final Fantasy Versus XIII was rumored to be cancelled and by god was the media backlash bad, it was bad people were demanding this game for years upon years, it was that interesting, even when the game didn't have a solid basis people were demanding it. Hell I actually think if the rumors weren't met with such rage from those wanting Final Fantasy Versus XIII, I bet, I really bet the game would've been scrapped, it would have been cancelled and the FFXV we know today would have been something different entirely.

    For the other two yeah they could have never been satisfied with FFXV, but it would have been much easier to turn them around for them to appreciate FFXV for what it is, but for the third not so much, because FFXV isn't what they were excited for all these years, and it doesn't help the story in of itself is lacking.

    I'm aware that things are positive, but things would be a lot more positive if Square just did what Bethesda did until they can realistically come up with a release date for a game, announce the game, then ship it in a reasonable time period, have a release date in the first trailer, release info, release a demo, fix according to feedback done. Any game can be used as an example for this doesn't have to be Fallout 4 still doesn't change a thing.

    Nomura seems to be doing fine with the FF7 Remake, and Kingdom Hearts 3 so I'm not worried about those. There wasn't much story related things shown about KH3 to complain about it, same with the FF7 Remake as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  15. T.O.T

    T.O.T Clan Centurio Member

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    @Hey Everyone Maybe your PC copy ran decent if you bought it, but that didn't out to be the case with everybody else with Fallout 4. There are like dozens of vids in regards to fixing x,y,z on YouTube. Far as the Pro Versus XIII fans, I guess that's something you all need to take up with Nomura. That's all I am going to say on that part.
     
  16. Hey Everyone

    Hey Everyone ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Oh yeah I'm aware of Fallout 4's issues still doesn't change a thing I've said though, don't show until you can realistically ship within 6-10 months. There shouldn't be Pro Versus XIII's fans to begin with, if they had just waited till the game was 90 percent done, this wouldn't have happened. That's all I'm going to say on the matter.
     
  17. Ikkin

    Ikkin ShinRa SOLDIER

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    As far as I'm concerned, this is a fantastic argument in favor of showing things early. =P

    If Versus XIII and The Last Guardian hadn't been shown off before the dev team became aware of the developmental issues they'd face, we probably never would have seen either game, and console gaming as a whole would have been poorer for it.

    The video game industry needs more weird experimental games, not less. And if being strung along for a decade to show that there's demand is the price to pay for that, so be it.
     
  18. Hey Everyone

    Hey Everyone ShinRa SOLDIER

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    I only said I believe that was the case, they could very well have made Versus XIII Final Fantasy XV and didn't even think of any type of cancellation date, because that decision was made in 2012. Also FFXV isn't weird or that experimental, and the Last Guardian well some say it wasn't worth the wait haven't played it, but disappointments abound. In fact knowing Square Enix, FFXV could have been the same way that it is right now, or they would have done something different, and possibly made a more consistent, and better game because of it.
     
  19. Ikkin

    Ikkin ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Tabata specifically mentioned trying to maintain the aspects of the game that people were familiar with prior to his promotion, which seems like a pretty clear indication that things would have been different if we'd never known anything about Versus.

    The Last Guardian is pretty much the definition of flawed masterpiece -- while it's not a game for everyone and its technical flaws can range from "mild irritation" to "game-breaker" depending on how effective you find its emotional core, video games as an artform would absolutely be poorer if it didn't exist.

    As for FFXV, relying heavily on elements designed to be meditative (driving, resting, reviewing photographs) or even actively disempowering (Chapter 13...) is almost unheard of for a game with an FF-sized budget. Focusing on pain and loss as much as FFXV does is pretty unusual, too. Some of the optional content is as experimental as it gets. Heck, even the way the game is played thumbs its nose at iterative design and marches to the beat of its own drummer. And, honestly, given the current state of the AAA game industry, that sort of thing is sorely needed right now.
     
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  20. Hey Everyone

    Hey Everyone ShinRa SOLDIER

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    Oh I agree it's needed, but it should be good, if not great there has to be a need for it, and also things being different is fine, as long as a quality product comes out of release then it's good for gaming in general. In fact this just shows a lack of confidence if they needed to show the game early just to even make it in the first place.
     
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