The Tetsuya Nomura Over design

gsedgemanx · Jun 25, 2015

I was watching some videos on Youtube and talking to some people, etc. and there is a lot of criticism toward Nomura and his character designs. They say they're too over designed, busy, etc.

I disagree, however. I love them. What do you guys think? I'm new to the board and wanted to start this discussion.

Sora96 · Jun 25, 2015

My only problem with Nomura is that he thinks he needs to be involved in every single project known to man.

LeonBlade · Jun 25, 2015

Sora96 said:

Excuse me? Care to elaborate on that? Is it anything like you shouting TORIYAMA anytime there's a project that has an unannounced director by any chance?

Sora96 · Jun 25, 2015

LeonBlade said:

Will do. Nomura seems to be involved in every single project going on in Square Enix's first four divisions in some role or another.

I'm just hoping it's what he's been working on. I'm not wanting Toriyama to work on a hundred projects, I just really want to know the project he said would be revealed in 2015.

Koozek · Jun 25, 2015

Sora96 said:

Funny thing is, he didn't even know he was FFVIIR's director before he saw his name in the video:
“As preproduction went along and I offered my opinions on what I thought should be done, Mr. Kitase would asked me how the individual elements should be adjusted in fine detail.” Nomura recalled. “It was very perplexing. Then one day, as I was checking the internal company presentation video it said ‘Director Tetsuya Nomura’ at the end.”
Apparently this was news to Nomura who had assumed that Kitase would be reclaiming the director’s chair for the remake of his game. “So I called up Mr. Kitase and said, ‘It says that I’m the director for some reason.’ To which he replied, ‘Of course it does.’” Nomura said with a nervous laugh.

The “’I thought you were going to direct!’ ‘Well I thought YOU were going to direct!’” episode was something that happened in the initial stages of the project’s inception and Nomura has stated that he is presently well aware of and well into his position as director.

Sora96 · Jun 25, 2015

Koozek said:

Funny thing is, he didn't even know he was FFVIIR's director before he saw his name in the video:
“As preproduction went along and I offered my opinions on what I thought should be done, Mr. Kitase would asked me how the individual elements should be adjusted in fine detail.” Nomura recalled. “It was very perplexing. Then one day, as I was checking the internal company presentation video it said ‘Director Tetsuya Nomura’ at the end.”
Apparently this was news to Nomura who had assumed that Kitase would be reclaiming the director’s chair for the remake of his game. “So I called up Mr. Kitase and said, ‘It says that I’m the director for some reason.’ To which he replied, ‘Of course it does.’” Nomura said with a nervous laugh.

The “’I thought you were going to direct!’ ‘Well I thought YOU were going to direct!’” episode was something that happened in the initial stages of the project’s inception and Nomura has stated that he is presently well aware of and well into his position as director.

LOL.

yeah_93 · Jun 25, 2015

It's a common criticism. I personally like Nomura's designs. Especially more than Amano's. What I can't understand is how Sora96 managed to sneak Toriyama's name into this. Seriously, stop.

Sora96 · Jun 25, 2015

yeah_93 said:

Because LeonBlade brought him up.

Tornak · Jun 25, 2015

Ayyyy.

Regarding the topic, I really like his artstyle (although I don't particulary care about the one he used for Type-0 that seemed to be the one he used for a while). A shame that his art doesn't really translate that well always to 3D, especially with S-E's obsession of making everyone like a porcelain doll.

Now, when it comes to his character design... when I like it, I really like it. But there are times that... welp. I absolutely love his VII and VIII's designs. The highly stylistic designs of Cloud and the rest was great, and that's one of the reasons why I dislike his more realistic take on them (especially because they look like weird creepy dolls). His VIII's designs, at the same time, are both manga-like and much more realistic, and I LOVE them for that. VIII has to be, along with IX, my favourite FF in terms of visual design and art. And man, Parasite Eve is amazing in every regard, too, pretty similar to VIII's. That Nomura artstyle is my favourite by far, so good: subdued, charismatic and beautiful.

So yeah, I don't like when he goes crazy and starts adding stupid unnecessary things to this characters (like he used to do regarding belts and zippers), like his Squall redesign in Dissida. Or the entire FFX cast (one of the many reasons I'm not too fond of this game). So fucking awful, seriously. But when he hits the right spot, I love it.

I hope that XVI has a different character designer (which is almost assured). I'd like Amano, but I really doubt that would happen and I doubt they'd stick to his original artstyle, so they'd have to adapt it. Yoshida would be great too, I love his more realistic style (BD is alright, but I'm not that into it, especially because it reminds me a lot to that FF Gaiden game on DS, and makes it feel like a FF spin-off. Which it is, in a way, but...)

New people would be great, too. Aw man, I fucking hate what happened to FF since XII came out (or well, before). I want new FF with new or different people without having to wait for the same shit ten years. Hopefully XVI is at the very least at pre-production stages (I'd be it is), because it's been 9 years without an original mainline FF (a decade of fucking Lighthing and your ocassional short videos of Noctis).

yeah_93 · Jun 25, 2015

Tornak said:

Isn't the one he used for Type 0 the one he always uses? Like in his Dissidia artworks?

Tornak said:

Isn't that the point of Nomura's designs?

Infest · Jun 25, 2015

Nomura's designs are iconic. They've been the identity of (almost every mainline) FF for the past 18 years and I'm glad he's still on board.

Tornak · Jun 25, 2015

yeah_93 said:

I don't know, his style has evolved a lot through time (and still is evolving, sure). I don't like the outline of characters in Type-0:

But that's just the style of that game. He used the similar technique for TWEWY iirc, although I like it there with the more stylized characters. What I mean is that I prefer this stuff:

Although bear in mind that here I was only talking about his drawings. That is, only regarding art itself, since those designs are going to translate to a different medium and are going to look similar since, at the end of the day, they aren't that far off and it's the same guy creating them.

yeah_93 said:

I don't know, migth be (although that'd be more accurate when it comes to Amano, tbh).

I just hate how characters that were meant to inhabit a more manga-ish world look when they're in more realistic worlds. For example, Cloud has sharp features, sharp eyes and all that when he's drawn in a non-realistic style, even when he's closer to actual human proportions (there are three Clouds Nomura drew for VII: a super-deformed one, a more realistic one and a mix between both).

But when he's in AC or modern titles featuring him, he generally looks creepy as fuck (to me). His face is spotless, too soft in features and lacking of details in general. His overall look is also a weird mix between manga and real people (from both Japan and Europe) and it's uncanny and a bit unsettling to me.

But I don't know, I guess that's the point and the way Nomura wants them to look if they look like that in more modern games. I just dislike it a lot. I'm not asking for cell-shaded FFs. But I've always found X and XIII to be rather... I don't know. Characters look like mannequins, while XII is usually great in that regard. XV is also great there, even if I'm still not into the five main character designs (that Noctis' fucking haircut), they look great both in CGI and in-engine.

Koozek · Jun 25, 2015

Tornak said:

FFXVI is already in pre-production, of course. Here's what Verendus said about it so far:

"Already on the way. The concept of it is also quite unique. It will certainly be something that hasn't been done before in Final Fantasy, if they manage to accomplish it. I'd put it in the back of your mind for now though, as I would personally expect FF15 and KH3 to be out before it."

"A lot of the FFs are a mash up in my eyes. Even IX which has the tone you're describing has airships and so on.

XVI will be the opposite of XIII though. It's not futuristic so you might get what you want with that."

gsedgemanx · Jun 25, 2015

Infest said:

This is what I've always thought.

buddhafied · Jun 25, 2015

Obviously this is a very subjective topic, so there's no right and wrong answer to it. As a designer myself, I have a love and hate relationship with Nomura's character design. He does tend to over-design and I think a huge part of that derives from FFX, which is when he really starts to use those belts and zippers. As a personal preference, I actually like the belts and zippers (Lulu's dress was absolutely iconic, how she managed to walk with it, there must be some different physics in that Spira), but Tidus' design was messy. We can always go back to "it's not meant to be similar to our world", but from a designer's point of view, Tidus whole outfit needed some editing and Nomura needed some help from Tim Gunn.

That said, his style also evolved and the zippers and belts look more like they placed there for a reason instead of "let's slap this on there and call it design", which I think is why people criticized his work.

Nice that some of you mentioned about Amano. His work is also controversy, especially in the later years of Final Fantasy. What I think a lot of people have to understand is "character design" is different than "art style". Amano's artistic style (his way of communicating his art using his medium) is not as easy (or commercially) accepted than say Nomura, but that said, his character designs are awesome and very iconic. Think about the choice of colour of Terra's hair, think about the Onion Amour set, think about magitek. Compare that to Nomura's work, it's not difficult to see why Amano is such a well respected artist.

For me, Amano is a bit like Toriyama Akira. I am not a big fan of his artistic style (still like it and learned to respect it a lot as a grow older), but his character design is, again, iconic. Two words, Chrono Trigger.

Just my 2 cents and my opinion.

Lulcielid · Jun 25, 2015

Koozek said:

FFXVI is already in pre-production, of course. Here's what Verendus said about it so far:

"Already on the way. The concept of it is also quite unique. It will certainly be something that hasn't been done before in Final Fantasy, if they manage to accomplish it. I'd put it in the back of your mind for now though, as I would personally expect FF15 and KH3 to be out before it."

"A lot of the FFs are a mash up in my eyes. Even IX which has the tone you're describing has airships and so on.

XVI will be the opposite of XIII though. It's not futuristic so you might get what you want with that."

I always take this declarations with a big grain of salt, until word of god proves otherwise.

gsedgemanx · Jun 25, 2015

I love Amano's art style as well. It's always interesting to see how it translates to actual character designs and models.

gsedgemanx · Jun 25, 2015

Also a side note: I used to work in retail and I've seen my fair share of real life clothing with pointless zippers, belts and tears, etc. It's actually pretty funny.

Lulcielid · Jun 25, 2015

People complaining about Nomura's over design ? Then god help them if they see Amano's work

Koozek · Jun 25, 2015

Lumina said:

I've followed Verendus' posts for so long and thoroughly, now, that at this point I'm 100% sure he's pretty high-up at Sony to know this much. After this E3 there is no doubt that, though he trolls a lot and speaks cryptically, he however never makes up stuff and of course he emphasized that some projects are subject to last-minute change and maybe won't get announced exactly when he said so (he usually updates his information in the case there's going to be bigger changes to Sony's release schedule).

This is the list you should be watching for the next years - two of the bolded he can't yet say for certain, but he won't say which one:

Verendus said:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=169350163&postcount=13930

This is his post with the list before E3 with a few extra info regarding the "JRPG #"s and others:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166482193

After E3 some of them turned out to be the following:
Final Fantasy spin-off RPG = World of Final Fantasy
New SE console RPG IP = Project Setsuna
Square Enix crossover game = Nier 2 (SE & Platinum crossover)
New Naval RPG = Sea of Thieves

The Tetsuya Nomura Over design

Stiltzkin's Apprentice

Warrior of Light

Administrator

Warrior of Light

Turk

Warrior of Light

Warrior of Light

Warrior of Light

Keyblade Master

Warrior of Light

Blitzball Champion

Keyblade Master

Turk

Stiltzkin's Apprentice

Sphere Hunter

Warrior of Light

Stiltzkin's Apprentice

Stiltzkin's Apprentice

Warrior of Light

Turk