Final Fantasy XV Fanbase Hate: What are your thoughts?

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Feb 21, 2015
48
36
#21
Ah, okay, I get where you're coming from. Though I think my statements are still valid on that this is also still a obsessive fan (or in this case, "not a fan") mentality.

People make that type of cowardice statements all the time, and most of the case it's not acceptable, because most of the time that type of behavior will trace back to racism, sexism, homophobia, religions attacks, political partisanship, etc. In those cases, we call them out because they are clearly being a narrow minded bigots, but in scenarios like this we call them fanboys. To me, fanboism is very similar to say racism, as it's often subjective and very single focused. They lump one single thing or person to the entire project or game or series. This goes for both ways, people who are in favor and non favor of the things they like. Internet brings these people out because there's no real consequences usually.

And again, I think the best way is to stay away (if you want to remain sane and also don't get young age high blood pressure), or engage in a way where you won't get affected by those statement (if you want to make a better community, by demonstrating how sane people behave).
Your words are wise and do ring true. I just hope that in finding different alternatives to arguments (the sane fanboys) will calm down when they get a little too crazy and thats including me if it gets to that point. At least trying to be peaceful and bring sanity to the conversations with people online gives good cognitive experience to handling conflicts with people in general!
(ง'̀-'́)ง Ill try to keep my blood pressure low and pick my words and actions wisely.
Thanks for the heads up!
 

Squirrel Emperor

Nuts
Moderator
Sep 26, 2013
1,612
626
#24
In other words, some people need to learn the fine art of self-control. Personal attacks are one thing but how one handles it on the receiving end is another. It can go both ways. Some will know how to properly handle it and not let it get the best of them. Others will not know how to properly handle it and let it get the best of them.

It's not just about the bully but the victim as well.
 

buddhafied

Sphere Hunter
Sep 30, 2013
241
126
Vancouver, BC
#25
I CAN BE WISE. FOR EXAMPLE: One must drink at least 7-8 cups of water a day to have a healthy body. Namaste.
Now, namaste the *beep* out of my way! (my favourite saying he he he)

Your words are wise and do ring true.
Nah, just being old and realized my time is more well spent with better people than them! I feel you... it's hard not to engage when you clearly see they're not being rational, but at the same time, I think most of the time they don't want to be rational themselves. In which case, the argument will go nowhere.
 
Last edited:
Feb 21, 2015
48
36
#27
In other words, some people need to learn the fine art of self-control. Personal attacks are one thing but how one handles it on the receiving end is another. It can go both ways. Some will know how to properly handle it and not let it get the best of them. Others will not know how to properly handle it and let it get the best of them.

It's not just about the bully but the victim as well.
I like it.
Restorative justice return hate with kindness. =]
 
Feb 21, 2015
48
36
#28
Nah, just being old and realized my time is more well spent with better people than them! I feel you... it's hard not to engage when you clearly see they're not being rational, but at the same time, I think most of the time they don't want to be rational themselves. In which case, the argument will go nowhere.
To me they must be hurt or angry not particularly at the person they rage at but in something. It's just, I try to do something to help with that if I am able or if that's even the case (Unless they are trolls trying to be funny lol). Video games are supposed to be fun ya know? So discussion on them should be.

Though like you said wisdom is to know when to walk away.
 

Rin

Reformed
Apr 11, 2015
330
330
#30
Honestly speaking, responding meaningfully to your first post, Luminous-Night, is difficult, and as such I won't attempt to take on such a behemoth task (pun intended). However, rest assured that I did read the entire thing.

To put it succinctly:
- Any time a person praises or hates a game developer (or any creator, be it a novel, film, etc.) to the point of irrationality and name-calling of the opposing side, that person really ought to check priorities. On the internet, it's easy to lose sight of common humanity.
- Yes, even as early as June 2013, Square Enix, and probably Nomura himself, wanted to make clear the fact that this game is no longer Versus XIII. It is Final Fantasy XV. The last few lines in Japanese literally say:
"This is the counterpart/opposite fantasy." (i.e. "Versus XIII")
"No, the world always changes. [This is the] 15th."
- However, without Square Enix telling us what exactly happened to this project, we the public will never know for sure. If you happen to be "on the inside" about this project and are reading this, chances are you probably joined the project later in its life, not when it was first conceived as Versus XIII in the mid-2000s.
- Thus, conjuring up narratives to reassure ourselves about what happened to Versus XIII, and what has been happening to XV, is futile. Both the cynics who decry Tabata and blame him for everything that's gone "wrong" with FFXV, as well as the defenders who are quick to say that Nomura and Nojima approved of all these changes, no questions asked, are making the same mistake: we think we know what's been going on all these years. We may have seen signs here and then of the aftermath, but we can't say we really do know what's been happening at Square Enix Japan. (We just know that a lot's been going on, lol!)

tl;dr
Hate on Tabata is unwarranted; the man doesn't run Square Enix. Lots of people are involved on FFXV, most of them newcomers to the project.
Trailer analysis is interesting but is probably grasping at straws in a few places.
Nomura is still "main character designer," so he would have redesigned Regis (unless somehow Regis is no longer a main character, which is, as evident in the latest trailer, not at all the case). Whether or not Nomura likes the change or grudgingly accepted is another matter (this is where the narratives we've made for ourselves come in to play).
GC is meant to be the START of the REBOOT of XV's promotional campaign. The whole problem so far is that SE haven't shown enough of the current game as it stands. After TGS let's hope the company are willing to say more about the next mainline FF.
 
Feb 21, 2015
48
36
#31
Honestly speaking, responding meaningfully to your first post, Luminous-Night, is difficult, and as such I won't attempt to take on such a behemoth task (pun intended). However, rest assured that I did read the entire thing.

To put it succinctly:
- Any time a person praises or hates a game developer (or any creator, be it a novel, film, etc.) to the point of irrationality and name-calling of the opposing side, that person really ought to check priorities. On the internet, it's easy to lose sight of common humanity.
- Yes, even as early as June 2013, Square Enix, and probably Nomura himself, wanted to make clear the fact that this game is no longer Versus XIII. It is Final Fantasy XV. The last few lines in Japanese literally say:
"This is the counterpart/opposite fantasy." (i.e. "Versus XIII")
"No, the world always changes. [This is the] 15th."
- However, without Square Enix telling us what exactly happened to this project, we the public will never know for sure. If you happen to be "on the inside" about this project and are reading this, chances are you probably joined the project later in its life, not when it was first conceived as Versus XIII in the mid-2000s.
- Thus, conjuring up narratives to reassure ourselves about what happened to Versus XIII, and what has been happening to XV, is futile. Both the cynics who decry Tabata and blame him for everything that's gone "wrong" with FFXV, as well as the defenders who are quick to say that Nomura and Nojima approved of all these changes, no questions asked, are making the same mistake: we think we know what's been going on all these years. We may have seen signs here and then of the aftermath, but we can't say we really do know what's been happening at Square Enix Japan. (We just know that a lot's been going on, lol!)

tl;dr
Hate on Tabata is unwarranted; the man doesn't run Square Enix. Lots of people are involved on FFXV, most of them newcomers to the project.
Trailer analysis is interesting but is probably grasping at straws in a few places.
Nomura is still "main character designer," so he would have redesigned Regis (unless somehow Regis is no longer a main character, which is, as evident in the latest trailer, not at all the case). Whether or not Nomura likes the change or grudgingly accepted is another matter (this is where the narratives we've made for ourselves come in to play).
GC is meant to be the START of the REBOOT of XV's promotional campaign. The whole problem so far is that SE haven't shown enough of the current game as it stands. After TGS let's hope the company are willing to say more about the next mainline FF.

Firstly, I very much appreciate your input. Differences in thinking is what makes the world so interesting!!!
To start, your quote, "Trailer analysis is interesting but is probably grasping at straws in a few places." is completely correct haha! Though thats what makes it interesting. I know fully I may be down right wrong. My way isn't divine nor better than others. I just wanted to present a new take on the FFXV fan argument of Nomura VERSUS Tabata (Pun intended as well =])
I did this in an effort to dispel through logic and another perspective the Human Hate that is spewed from that black or white argument while also trying to bring a bit of Humanity through civility and understanding. I believe that, "Sure these people spew hate but really they just hate change and are vocal on a medium that allows no consequences besides moderation and I hate change too, and sometimes I can be hateful too." So naturally I try to see them like people and not just faceless jerks.

The Second point you make I agree with too, mostly. "However, without Square Enix telling us what exactly happened to this project, we the public will never know for sure."
I believe if we look logically and see all the evidence we get a very good picture of what kinda went down. Although, that too is still theory, just backed up by evidence that does not give a FULL concrete answer. So I agree and semi agree lol =p

Third, I do think they should have waited to show that "Dawn" trailer towards the middle of their promotional campaign. It would have been a lot safer. Instead of showing that trailer I agree that they should have shown a more current image and trailer as it stands gameplay included.

In the end, I posted that "novel" firstly in order to try to bring more harmony to an argument that seems to constantly turn sower.
Secondly I thought the were interesting points to announce wondering if any other people saw something different or noticed them as well.
Finally thirdly, we all are still in the dark about a lot of FFXV whether it be Nomura's view on the changes or why its taken so long in the first place. Though I do believe he was apart of the changes, it wasn't just Tabata.
My final thought is, why is the unknown bad? It is exciting to me!! I mean we have dedicated our time sure, but thats because its so intriguing in the first place. So "conjuring up narratives to reassure ourselves about what happened to Versus XIII." is in itself kinda fun if we don't mind change. If we don't let it affect us, ya know? Because when it does thats when arguments break out and when that happens, because of our anxiety, we increase the chance to turn hateful. Maybe its cause we feel anxious and attacked. At least thats what I think, I may be wrong.
I think instead of "conjuring up narratives to reassure ourselves." Conjuring up narratives to intrigue and enjoy ourselves is a lot more enjoyable and healthy and leads less to hate because it isn't based on anxiety its based on fun.
I love to hear others opinions and narratives because they can see what I cannot.
Did you notice anything in that trailer that you think is interesting?
Sorry for the long response... =p
 
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buddhafied

Sphere Hunter
Sep 30, 2013
241
126
Vancouver, BC
#34
Disclaimer: I honestly don't know much about developing a game, so this is just a personal opinion and experience with project management.

When we talk about a big project like producing a game, directing a movie, we often single out the lead of the project and make him the sole responsible of something great or something poor that happens to that project. But as most of you, I assume, work in a workplace or at least worked on group assignments in schools before, the leader of a project is seldom the only reason for a good/bad product. Whenever I bring this up, people often reply with "yes of course, but..." The reality is, unless that person is the sole private owner of that product, he/she will never have 100% control over the direction of a project, there is no "but." Everyone has a boss, everyone.

I also like to bring up that Japanese company functions very differently compare to other companies around the world. They also have a very different culture, in which a lower rank staff can and will sometimes take the blame for a fault of a project, whether it was pressure from above or a self sacrifice. This sounds crazy, but unless you have worked and lived in that culture, it's hard to imagine.

For all we care, the biggest investor's son wanted a game in a certain way, if it doesn't go the way he will withdraw the funding completely, which will cause the firm to bankrupt. Hundreds of employees will lost their jobs. Sound far fetch? More crazier things had happened to corporate world than that.

tl;dr
Don't try to pretend we know what happen in a project, especially when it's a company in a completely different culture.