Do you ever see FF returning to the mainstream popularity it had in NA/EU circa FFVII/FFVIII?

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1Truth2Lies

Sphere Hunter
Jul 3, 2014
224
129
London
#21
Well, considering there wasn't really any JRPGs that came out, that kind of makes sense. Games like Bravery Default, Type-0 and Ni No Kuni are good examples of games that have a lot of positive western attention. Also, please explain to me why JRPGs need to take over the "mainstream" of western gaming?
There were many JRPGs that came out last-gen, just most of them didn't get critical acclaim. Xenoblade Chronicles was the only JRPG to score 90+ on Metacritic. Bravely Default and Ni No Kuni never had mainstream hype and attention, which is why they didn't sell that well in NA/EU.

I don't say JRPGs need to become mainstream in NA/EU. If they decide to focus on the dedicated fans they have now, that's their choice. However, if they choose to go that route, they will just keep the genre niche. WRPGs, on the other hand, will continue to keep growing and increasing their grasp over the mainstream. Thankfully, developers at Square Enix are not content to be cornered by WRPGs. They will make sure future mainline FF games take up the fight to try and make the FF series great again.

First off, anime is as niche as it is in the West as it's always been, only I think it's gained more attention in the west over the years. Explain to me where you're getting these numbers from, because it feels like you're just making things up. Secondly, since when was anime the most popular form of animation in the west...? You mean like Dragonball Z or something? What channels do kids mostly remember watching in the 90s? Nickelodeon, Disney and Cartoon Network... the later of which had a segment on called Toonami where they showed anime late at night... which they took away... and brought back recently. I've seen loads of anime/anime inspired TV shows for kids on TV still to this day, Avatar and Korra are good examples of western anime that has lots of attention.

As for how it goes "hand-in-hand with how JRPGs have also become niche", this is just plain wrong. You're talking about genres of things and claiming you know how popular they are with a large audience of people with nothing to back any of this up other than your word. Sorry, but this logic is 100% flawed.

Also... I'd say that Final Fantasy XV is a perfect example of a game that has massive hype.
I say anime became mainstream in NA/EU when it began to be aired at prime times for kids. You'd see it aired on Saturday mornings and see it hog up weekday evening slots for kids coming from school. This was on most animation dedicated channels at the time. They ran shows like Pokemon, Digimon, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, Gundam Wing, Sailor Moon, etc. These days, you don't see anime aired at all. Therefore, you can say there was a time anime became mainstream and then it later became unpopular.

How does this go hand-in-hand with JRPGs? It should be obvious. If anime is no longer as popular as it used to be, most JRPGs that use anime-style drawings are also going to be affected. If anime was still booming in NA/EU, games that use anime-style drawings would also still be hugely popular and shifting big numbers. It's also spilling into a regional thing, too. Now some people are simply not even interested in the games Japan puts out, which means that if the Japanese game doesn't even use anime-style visuals, people will still not be interested. I know people IRL that don't play games developed in Japan, even if the games get critical acclaim.

Also, FFXV has hype, but I wouldn't say it has "massive hype". Had FFXIII been universally adored, then FFXV would have massive hype.

People often also say that FFVI was the last good FF, or that FFIX was the last good FF. Here's something REALLY WEIRD that I bet you never thought about before! People have different OPINIONS about what is their favorite Final Fantasy game, and where they think the series has gone downhill, if they think so at all. Oddly enough it has absolutely nothing to do with anime (I know weird right).

Looks like someone is a fan of Final Fantasy XII... "rivalling that seen in Shakespeare plays" are you serious, man...? Please, tell me you're joking. I'm not even going to get into this, or the Game of Thrones comparison.
I'm aware that everybody has different opinions on what was the last good FF, but it's FFX that's most often called the last good FF by the fanbase.

I'm not joking about FFXII. The dialogue and voice acting in that game is far greater than any other FF. Rather than rivalling other video games, it rivals the dialogue seen in Shakespeare plays. Also, the grounded, fantasy story of FFXII would resonate with the masses in NA/EU, just like shows like Game of Thrones has.

Uh... the reason that XII is the way that it is has a lot to do with XI considering the same people worked on it, notice how the style of the game is very similar to that of an MMORPG? That's because originally it was going to be another MMORPG, the developer worked in Tactics, Vagrant Story and XI, I think it makes sense as to why XII was the way it was.

Swapping these two games wouldn't have happened, if you did the game would never have been what it is now, and neither would XIII... so honestly you're just thinking wishfully that somehow if XII was given XIII's place that things would be so much better.

Yeah, and you want to know what else would have made XIII better? If it was just left to be a PS3 exclusive and they weren't forced to cut content from the game "enough to make a whole other game" spawning the two subsequent games afterwards. XIII was originally supposed to be a one off game just like the games before it, but because of cut content for the 360 release of the game to make it manageable for the port, they had loads of assets unused that spawned the creation of two other games.

Things would have been COMPLETELY different if XIII and XII swapped places, they would be completely different games...

ALSO, another thing to keep in mind is that Matsuno dropped out of the company along with a bunch of other people and XII ended up changing because of it with Vaan and Penelo being added.

Another thing to point out is that Skyrim is a game that is still really only played by people that mod the game to get enjoyment out of it, no long standing replay value outside of this, people just like messing around with the quirky physics more than anything. Mass Effect was very popular, and they screwed fans over with Mass Effect 3 and its terrible ending with loads of other problems I'm not even going to get into here that reek signs of RUSHED DEVELOPMENT like the trend of modern western games to get games out as fast as possible for a cash grab.
FFXII was not made by the FFXI team. They were completely different teams. The FFXII team simply decided to evolve off FFXI, rather than FFX. FFXIII, on the other hand, was made by the same team that made FFX, and they decided to evolve off they previous work.

Theoretically, if both FFXII and FFXIII swapped places, the FF series would be in a much better place than it now in NA/EU. FFXIII appealed to those that liked the linear, cutscene heavy design of FFX, while FFXII was more Open World and forward thinking, much like Xenoblade Chronicles.

Your whole "cut content from FFXIII" claim is BS. Yoshinori Kitase already confirmed that the statement by Isamu Kamikuryo was misinterpreted. The cut content he mentioned, such as exploring Lightning's House, was all dropped naturally during development, as there were parts that didn't resonate with what they wanted to achieve with the game. Also, Matsuno never left FFXIII development "with a bunch of other people". He left on his own, while all the other key staff stayed. Vaan and Penelo were also both already in the game long before Matsuno left.

Skyrim is still played by people outside the PC modding community. I know a number of people that still play the game on PS3.

Define downhill, because getting good games isn't downhill... As for your connection with SKYRIM of all games, personally I think Skyrim is complete crap, that's because I don't like WRPGs and I'm sure a lot of western gamers also don't like WRPGs... just like a lot of western gamers LIKE WRPGs.

As for your whole Skyrim deal... you're asking for a game with an open world, mature plot... isn't that very similar to Final Fantasy XV...? Do you know nothing about this game? The game is supposed to be way more expansive, even allowing you to drive vehicles to get around using airships, etc. The story... uh... you mean the story that's supposed to take a more darker mature tone to it?

You're basically asking for XV here, and guess what, it's coming out... OH, but you think it's mediocre!
I mean downhill in terms of mainstream popularity. The games may still be good, but they won't garner mainstream interest, just like most other console JRPGs released in NA/EU. You thinking that Skyrim is complete crap is irrelevant, as the game's critical acclaim, numerous GOTY awards, and the 20 millions sales it has obtained NA/EU all speak positively for it.

FFXV is not Open World, though. Tetsuya Nomura already confirmed that. Also, the plot is not Medieval fantasy. Instead, it's a more modern story like FFVIII, which is why the party members all wear modern clothes and Lucis looks like modern day Shinjuku. In that sense, the story is not more mature, but just more realistic. From what I've seen of FFXV, not much looks amazing to me. I'd say the only thing I've seen that blows me away is the CGI.




You are entitled to your opinion and everything, but please show me a game that looks anything close to this. To date this is the most ambitious looking world environment I've seen in any next-generation game that we've seen been announced at all. The Division LOOKS nice, but it's nothing impressive compared to this screenshot of Accordo given the fact that you'll be able to move all over this map. The Witcher, basically walking around in a large but vastly vacant world just like Skyrim not really pushing any graphical boundaries here.
That image is CGI. If you look at in-game graphics of Accordo, it doesn't look anything like that shot. In terms of in-game graphics, The Division, The Witcher III, and Uncharted 4 all have FFXV beat.

Overall, I think your logic is completely flawed. You seem to be talking about things you know nothing about, and trying to support a claim of Final Fantasy dwindling... you don't like FFXV despite it being everything what a Final Fantasy game is supposed to be, this is the game they set to beat FFVII in terms of impact, and for some reason to you it doesn't seem to click. Maybe YOU just don't like JRPGs anymore, and so you want JRPGs to be like WRPGs to get more attention in the west. Honestly, there is still a large amount of western appeal for JRPGs, the Kingdom Hearts series is a perfect example of this.

At the end of the day, I don't care HOW popular JRPGs are in the West, all I care about is GOOD GAMES, and to me Final Fantasy XV is a game that I would create, every single details of this game appeals to me in ways I can't describe. I LOVE JRPGs, and I know plenty of people that do as well. I loved Ni No Kuni, I really want to see a sequel or just another IP from Level 5 or even just a new console Dragon Quest game, I'm excited for Kingdom Hearts III, can't wait for Persona 5.
Sounds to me that you want JRPGs to stay the same to satisfy your love for the now niche genre. If that's your outlook then you will only assist in making the genre more niche in NA/EU than it already is.

FFX received critical acclaim too, and enjoyed higher sales than XII should the next game be a linear adventure and a proper turnbased ?
Huh, what makes you sure that an FFXII or an MMO clone won't blow either? Like i said FFXII is very linear and very segmented unlike a proper WRPG or even Xenoblade. If FFXIV ARR is to go by, It will be another game with same weak map system. It won't survive from direct comparisons.
FFX was released before WRPGs dethroned JRPGs on home consoles, though. FFXIII evolved off FFX and released after WRPGs seized the throne. It didn't get as much critical acclaim as FFX did.

Xenoblade Chronicles is proof that a FFXII clone won't blow. Also, FFXII is not "very linear". I don't know how you can make such a claim, especially compared to games like FFX and FFXIII. In FFXII, you can visit areas you're not even supposed to go to yet. It was the most open game in the FF series outside the NES/SNES games.
 
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Likes: FFFan

Squirrel Emperor

Nuts
Moderator
Sep 26, 2013
1,612
626
#22
Yeah, and you want to know what else would have made XIII better? If it was just left to be a PS3 exclusive and they weren't forced to cut content from the game "enough to make a whole other game" spawning the two subsequent games afterwards. XIII was originally supposed to be a one off game just like the games before it, but because of cut content for the 360 release of the game to make it manageable for the port, they had loads of assets unused that spawned the creation of two other games.
No it wouldn’t. Keeping the game exclusive to PS3 would not have fixed the core issues the developers had during development. Terrible management, poor communication, out of date development model, and a crappy engine would still be present. Read the FFXIII Postmortem. A lot of valuable time and resources were wasted. Square Enix, like many Japanese developers, struggled to adjust to the demands of HD development.

These core issues affected the overall quality of the product, caused delays and made it a cost-overrun project. And then there is Toriyama…

And XB360 didn’t force the team to cut anything. Besides the XB360 version still having 2.1GB of space left(1GB on disc one and two), developers cut content all the time during game development. They do this because of deadlines, budget constraints and keeping the game balanced. It’s pretty normal and not much different then film making. FFXV will most likely have stuff cut too for the same reasons.

Stuff like the Seventh Ark and Lightning’s House were cut because the developers were running out of time and needed to get the game done or it affected the flow of the game.
 
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Oct 4, 2013
47
13
#23
FFX was released before WRPGs dethroned JRPGs on home consoles, though. FFXIII evolved off FFX and released after WRPGs seized the throne. It didn't get as much critical acclaim as FFX did.
So is FFXII, don't you think? :/
One thing you don't get here is, FFXII is a slow grindcore Asian MMORPG offline not a proper PC RPG.

Xenoblade Chronicles is proof that a FFXII clone won't blow. Also, FFXII is not "very linear". I don't know how you can make such a claim, especially compared to games like FFX and FFXIII. In FFXII, you can visit areas you're not even supposed to go to yet. It was the most open game in the FF series outside the NES/SNES games.
It is very linear, maps in FFXII are very segmented and branched with zone lines and barriers. FFXIV featured same map system yet managed to be even more railroaded. An FFXII clone will likely be even smaller than FFXIV at this point. :/
 

1Truth2Lies

Sphere Hunter
Jul 3, 2014
224
129
London
#24
So is FFXII, don't you think? :/
One thing you don't get here is, FFXII is a slow grindcore Asian MMORPG offline not a proper PC RPG.
FFXII was released in NA/EU around 7 months after Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion was released in the regions. Oblivion is regarded as the game that started the WRPG renaissance on home consoles. Despite releasing 7 months after it and on last-gen hardware, FFXII still got huge critical acclaim and obtained a score of 92 on Metacritic. The game beat Oblivion to win GOTY 2006 from Edge Magazine, who are widely regarded as the harshest critic in video games journalism.

I can agree with your claim that FFXII is a huge grind and feels very similar to to a Korean MMORPG. However, that approach is not that different from loot obsessed WRPGs. In those, you have to kill the same enemy over and over and over just to see if you achieve that 2% chance of them dropping a rare weapon/gear.

It is very linear, maps in FFXII are very segmented and branched with zone lines and barriers. FFXIV featured same map system yet managed to be even more railroaded. An FFXII clone will likely be even smaller than FFXIV at this point. :/
FFXII isn't very linear. The world is segmented, but that doesn't mean your path through it is linear, especially not like it was in FFX and FFXIII. The map design in FFXII is more similar to Monster Hunter; they both have a bunch of hubs divided into zones. However, you're free to progress through these zones in any order you wish. In FFXII, you can even leave an area and go explore a location way beyond your party members current level and not yet required for the story. Such a design approach the very opposite of "very linear".

FFXIV ARR has a similar map structure to FFXII, but that's likely due to many FFXII staff working on the game. However, what's impressive about FFXIV ARR is how big the zones are. If they can make even bigger zones for a FFXII clone, that will be great, IMO. It not being a MMO will allow them to to not worry about the massive amount of data needed to render all the other players on your screen. Therefore, more memory can be advocated to the scale and detail of the world itself.
 
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LeonBlade

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
Site Staff
Oct 25, 2013
2,026
1,864
30
Blossvale, New York
#25
There were many JRPGs that came out last-gen, just most of them didn't get critical acclaim. Xenoblade Chronicles was the only JRPG to score 90+ on Metacritic. Bravely Default and Ni No Kuni never had mainstream hype and attention, which is why they didn't sell that well in NA/EU.

I don't say JRPGs need to become mainstream in NA/EU. If they decide to focus on the dedicated fans they have now, that's their choice. However, if they choose to go that route, they will just keep the genre niche. WRPGs, on the other hand, will continue to keep growing and increasing their grasp over the mainstream. Thankfully, developers at Square Enix are not content to be cornered by WRPGs. They will make sure future mainline FF games take up the fight to try and make the FF series great again.
Is there really anything wrong in it being a niche thing though? I know what you're asking here is more of a general question and not to be interpreted this way, but I don't really see the need overall.

I say anime became mainstream in NA/EU when it began to be aired at prime times for kids. You'd see it aired on Saturday mornings and see it hog up weekday evening slots for kids coming from school. This was on most animation dedicated channels at the time. They ran shows like Pokemon, Digimon, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, Gundam Wing, Sailor Moon, etc. These days, you don't see anime aired at all. Therefore, you can say there was a time anime became mainstream and then it later became unpopular.

How does this go hand-in-hand with JRPGs? It should be obvious. If anime is no longer as popular as it used to be, most JRPGs that use anime-style drawings are also going to be affected. If anime was still booming in NA/EU, games that use anime-style drawings would also still be hugely popular and shifting big numbers. It's also spilling into a regional thing, too. Now some people are simply not even interested in the games Japan puts out, which means that if the Japanese game doesn't even use anime-style visuals, people will still not be interested. I know people IRL that don't play games developed in Japan, even if the games get critical acclaim.

Also, FFXV has hype, but I wouldn't say it has "massive hype". Had FFXIII been universally adored, then FFXV would have massive hype.
I'm sorry, but that's flat out wrong, anime shows are still shown on TV, saying you don't see it at all is completely wrong. As for your comment about JRPGs, it doesn't follow through because of this. Your comments about your friends that don't play Japanese games only says to me that you're looking at people you know in real life and wondering why everyone doesn't like Japanese games. The Souls series is a perfect example of a Japanese game that is critically acclaimed as being one of the best games of all time by a lot of people for it's difficulty and lore. Of course, the Souls games aren't JRPGs, but that's not the point I'm making, the point is people will enjoy Japanese games either way. The bigger issue is that not a lot of JRPGs are even released in the west.

I don't see how if XIII would have been universally adored that XV would have any more hype than it does. XV is a completely different type of game, all people would say is "you made a great FF game (XIII) and now you turn it into something that isn't FF) like they already are saying.

I'm aware that everybody has different opinions on what was the last good FF, but it's FFX that's most often called the last good FF by the fanbase.
I'm sorry, but that's not true at all. There are just as many people that say FFX was shit compared to IX/XII whatever as they say FFX was the last good one. This doesn't really hold any value, especially without any solid statistics behind it.

I'm not joking about FFXII. The dialogue and voice acting in that game is far greater than any other FF. Rather than rivalling other video games, it rivals the dialogue seen in Shakespeare plays. Also, the grounded, fantasy story of FFXII would resonate with the masses in NA/EU, just like shows like Game of Thrones has.
Saying it "rivals the dialogue seen in Shakespeare" is just a bit ridiculous, that's why I asked you if you were serious. I agree with you on most points here, but honestly the Shakespeare thing is of course subjective, and kind of silly.

FFXII was not made by the FFXI team. They were completely different teams. The FFXII team simply decided to evolve off FFXI, rather than FFX. FFXIII, on the other hand, was made by the same team that made FFX, and they decided to evolve off they previous work.

Theoretically, if both FFXII and FFXIII swapped places, the FF series would be in a much better place than it now in NA/EU. FFXIII appealed to those that liked the linear, cutscene heavy design of FFX, while FFXII was more Open World and forward thinking, much like Xenoblade Chronicles.
And there are people that HATED FFXII, and plenty of people that HATE XIII as well, swapping them doesn't really do anything here.

Your whole "cut content from FFXIII" claim is BS. Yoshinori Kitase already confirmed that the statement by Isamu Kamikuryo was misinterpreted. The cut content he mentioned, such as exploring Lightning's House, was all dropped naturally during development, as there were parts that didn't resonate with what they wanted to achieve with the game. Also, Matsuno never left FFXIII development "with a bunch of other people". He left on his own, while all the other key staff stayed. Vaan and Penelo were also both already in the game long before Matsuno left.
I didn't mean he left with other people leaving with him, I don't know too much about the development of XII, but it's argued that Vaan and Penelo are meaningless characters, I think that is what I should have said originally.

Skyrim is still played by people outside the PC modding community. I know a number of people that still play the game on PS3.
I'm sure you do, and I'm sure there are, that's not really the point of me mentioning it though.

I mean downhill in terms of mainstream popularity. The games may still be good, but they won't garner mainstream interest, just like most other console JRPGs released in NA/EU. You thinking that Skyrim is complete crap is irrelevant, as the game's critical acclaim, numerous GOTY awards, and the 20 millions sales it has obtained NA/EU all speak positively for it.
Maybe it will go downhill in mainstream popularity, or maybe it will skyrocket back into mainstream approval after FFXV is released... or maybe it wont... there's no real way to predict this without seeing the reaction to the game's release.

FFXV is not Open World, though. Tetsuya Nomura already confirmed that. Also, the plot is not Medieval fantasy. Instead, it's a more modern story like FFVIII, which is why the party members all wear modern clothes and Lucis looks like modern day Shinjuku. In that sense, the story is not more mature, but just more realistic. From what I've seen of FFXV, not much looks amazing to me. I'd say the only thing I've seen that blows me away is the CGI.
First off, let me just clarify that I don't mean open world in that the world is fully connected with no transitions, I meant to say rather that it's an expansive world.

My main point to bring up here... is that you associate a mature story with being medieval fantasy setting and not being modern... Can you please clarify what you mean by this, or do you literally mean that if a story isn't set in a medieval fantasy setting that it cannot be a mature story, because that's what you're saying right here.

As for what blows you away, how much of the story do you know about or care to know about? Here is a quote from Nomura back when the game was still called Versus XIII

The stories from the past entries in the Final Fantasy series are not exactly as I would have done, but that’s as it should be because I didn’t direct them. My only concern in terms of Versus XIII is that FF always talks about human emotion and psychologies in a broad way, and I want to go deeper in terms of offering some crude reality in terms of human emotion or human behaviour. The goal, when a player holds a controller and plays an RPG, is to make them believe in another world – to experience a dream in a fictional world. It will be different in Versus XIII because of the intrusion of the real world, and things that are really happening. There will be less fiction and more reality.
And to quote the FF Wikia page

The game's focus is to examine the characters' humanity and distinguish it from the fantasy setting in other titles in the series. Nomura is "trying to propose new vision of how a Final Fantasy game can be. The game's going to be more human than the science-fiction caricature... and will focus around current world events - in that sense it's darker."
Does this not sound like a mature story to you?

That image is CGI. If you look at in-game graphics of Accordo, it doesn't look anything like that shot. In terms of in-game graphics, The Division, The Witcher III, and Uncharted 4 all have FFXV beat.
If you have some in-game graphics of Accordo I'd love to see them, because we don't have any. Please also keep in mind that what we've seen so far has been either CGI or early gameplay without the use of the luminous engine. Do you remember Agni's Philosophy? The target of this game's visuals is to look like that in game. Taking that into consideration alone, do you think that those games you mention look better?

Sounds to me that you want JRPGs to stay the same to satisfy your love for the now niche genre. If that's your outlook then you will only assist in making the genre more niche in NA/EU than it already is.
I want JRPGs to stay JRPGs and not become WRPGs made from Japan, that is my outlook. Pandering to the western audience detracts from the idea of a JRPG, does it not?
 

1Truth2Lies

Sphere Hunter
Jul 3, 2014
224
129
London
#26
Is there really anything wrong in it being a niche thing though? I know what you're asking here is more of a general question and not to be interpreted this way, but I don't really see the need overall.
It's the competitive nature of gaming, really. Remember the huge rivalry between Mario and Sonic in the 90's? Ever since WRPGs starting appearing on home consoles last-gen, that same rivalry has been going on between WRPGS and JRPGs. Personally, I don't really care about the rivalry, but in general, it is having a influence on the market. If some JRPGs choose to stay niche, that's their choice; some have even already chosen that route, such as Tales and Disgaea. However, big IPs like Final Fantasy will never bow down to WRPG dominance without a fight. They'll instead try and evolve to compete with them head on.

Naoki Yoshida (FFXIV ARR Producer/Director) indicated as much back in 2012:
Skyrim is one of the most shocking games I’ve played recently. Definitely.

It's the freedom. [Yoshida pauses for some time, thinking.] The freedom... and also the fact that the world is living, the world itself is breathing. What they achieved is something that Square Enix really should try to aim for. It’s something that Square Enix should be challenging; I really felt that we have to join this battle – this battle to be competitive in making these kinds of games.
http://www.rpgsite.net/interview/31...nterview-with-producer-director-naoki-yoshida

I'm sorry, but that's flat out wrong, anime shows are still shown on TV, saying you don't see it at all is completely wrong. As for your comment about JRPGs, it doesn't follow through because of this. Your comments about your friends that don't play Japanese games only says to me that you're looking at people you know in real life and wondering why everyone doesn't like Japanese games. The Souls series is a perfect example of a Japanese game that is critically acclaimed as being one of the best games of all time by a lot of people for it's difficulty and lore. Of course, the Souls games aren't JRPGs, but that's not the point I'm making, the point is people will enjoy Japanese games either way. The bigger issue is that not a lot of JRPGs are even released in the west.
Anime shows are still shown on NA/EU television, but they're no longer shown at prime times on major channels, which was my point. That goes hand-in-hand with how JRPGs have also become niche. As for people I know IRL not playing games developed in Japan, that's based on them feeling Western developers make games that appeal to them more. Even a series like Dark Souls is most likely popular in NA/EU because it lacks a Japanese aesthetic. If you never knew where it was developed, you'd probably think it was a Western game, as it plays more like a WRPG than anything else. Even some journalists have said, "Dark Souls is a WRPG that happens to be made in Japan."

I don't see how if XIII would have been universally adored that XV would have any more hype than it does. XV is a completely different type of game, all people would say is "you made a great FF game (XIII) and now you turn it into something that isn't FF) like they already are saying.
Not true. I remember the ridiculous hype for FFVIII based on the universally adored FFVII. The hype I'm seeing for FFXV doesn't come close to that level. There's hype for it, sure, but it's not the massive hype you're claiming. There many other next-gen games that have more hype than it. The game was originally being developed for PS3, after all. People know this ain't a game being developed from the ground-up for PS4/Xbox One.

I'm sorry, but that's not true at all. There are just as many people that say FFX was shit compared to IX/XII whatever as they say FFX was the last good one. This doesn't really hold any value, especially without any solid statistics behind it.
I'm going off my experience in discussions on the matter. Any time I see a poll or discussion on the subject, FFX gets the most votes or mentions as the last good FF. Therefore, there is some truth to it. However, I agree with you on there being no solid statistics to support the claim.

Saying it "rivals the dialogue seen in Shakespeare" is just a bit ridiculous, that's why I asked you if you were serious. I agree with you on most points here, but honestly the Shakespeare thing is of course subjective, and kind of silly.
I mean only in comparison to other FF games. Compared to other FF games, the dialogue in FFXII rivals that seen in a Shakespeare play. Of course, if I were to judge the game's dialogue standalone, I wouldn't make such a lofty claim.

And there are people that HATED FFXII, and plenty of people that HATE XIII as well, swapping them doesn't really do anything here.
I think it would. FFXIII is structured very similar to FFX in game design, level design, story, etc. Therefore, I think it coming out on PS2 after FFX/FFX-2 would have allowed it to be received better by the FF fanbase, as it's more like FFX. FFXII, on the other hand, feels more like an offline FFXI, which many people didn't want at the time. They wanted something more similar to FFX, which FFXIII was.

First off, let me just clarify that I don't mean open world in that the world is fully connected with no transitions, I meant to say rather that it's an expansive world.

My main point to bring up here... is that you associate a mature story with being medieval fantasy setting and not being modern... Can you please clarify what you mean by this, or do you literally mean that if a story isn't set in a medieval fantasy setting that it cannot be a mature story, because that's what you're saying right here.

As for what blows you away, how much of the story do you know about or care to know about? Here is a quote from Nomura back when the game was still called Versus XIII
I mean that the story will feel more mature due to it being based on realism. It won't be a mature, fantasy story in its own right. For example, a show like Game of Thrones has a mature fantasy, story. However, though it's mature, the story is pure fantasy and isn't based on the real world. FFXV, on the other hand, by Nomura's own admission, has a mature story that stems from the fact the game being based on reality. So therefore, the maturity of the game's story comes from the fact the game is based on the real world. The game doesn't have a mature, fantasy story in its own right.

If you have some in-game graphics of Accordo I'd love to see them, because we don't have any. Please also keep in mind that what we've seen so far has been either CGI or early gameplay without the use of the luminous engine. Do you remember Agni's Philosophy? The target of this game's visuals is to look like that in game. Taking that into consideration alone, do you think that those games you mention look better
You can see the in-game graphics of Accordo in the E3 2013 trailer, so there's no need for me to provide screenshots. Also, that's not "early gameplay". Kitase has already said FFXV is pretty far along. If anything, the E3 2013 footage was a target render of what they want the final game to look like. FFXV won't ever look as good as Agni's Philosophy, as that would mean throwing everything out and building the game from scratch with Luminous Studio. There's no way Square Enix will do that. What they're doing with FFXV is porting existing assets into DirectX 11 and upscaling, re-rendering, and adding more detailed textures where needed. Even that is laborious task. Look at how long FFX/FFX-2 HD Remaster took them, for example.

The first game that will have in-game graphics on par with Agni's Philosophy is likely FFXVI, as it will be built from the ground-up with Luminous Studio for for PS4/Xbox One.

I want JRPGs to stay JRPGs and not become WRPGs made from Japan, that is my outlook. Pandering to the western audience detracts from the idea of a JRPG, does it not?
I think both can co-exist. There can be JRPGs that solely appeal to the dedicated fans of the genre, such as Tales, Disgaea, and Dragon Quest are doing. Then there can be JRPGs that push the genre forward and challenge WRPGs, such as FFXII did and the forthcoming Xenoblade Chronicles X.
 
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LeonBlade

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#27
I mean that the story will feel more mature due to it being based on realism. It won't be a mature, fantasy story in its own right. For example, a show like Game of Thrones has a mature fantasy, story. However, though it's mature, the story is pure fantasy and isn't based on the real world. FFXV, on the other hand, by Nomura's own admission, has a mature story that stems from the fact the game being based on reality. So therefore, the maturity of the game's story comes from the fact the game is based on the real world. The game doesn't have a mature, fantasy story in its own right.
This makes absolutely no sense to me at all. I'm not going to bother with the rest of this, we differ on opinions here, and that's fine by me, nothing wrong with that, I think we should just leave it at that.
 
Jun 7, 2014
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#28
I mean that the story will feel more mature due to it being based on realism. It won't be a mature, fantasy story in its own right. For example, a show like Game of Thrones has a mature fantasy, story. However, though it's mature, the story is pure fantasy and isn't based on the real world. FFXV, on the other hand, by Nomura's own admission, has a mature story that stems from the fact the game being based on reality. So therefore, the maturity of the game's story comes from the fact the game is based on the real world. The game doesn't have a mature, fantasy story in its own right.
I just wanted to point out that Game of Thrones is actually heavily based on realism. Lots of events and characters in GoT seem to have their historical counterparts. GRR Martin hismself admitted he was inspired by Wars of the Roses and history in general. I even dare say that fantasy elements in GoT usually play second fiddle.
That's why your argument makes no sense:cookie:

And no offence, but I think you're trying a bit too hard to find flaws in a game we know very little about.
 

1Truth2Lies

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Jul 3, 2014
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#29
I just wanted to point out that Game of Thrones is actually heavily based on realism. Lots of events and characters in GoT seem to have their historical counterparts. GRR Martin hismself admitted he was inspired by Wars of the Roses and history in general. I even dare say that fantasy elements in GoT usually play second fiddle.
That's why your argument makes no sense:cookie:

And no offence, but I think you're trying a bit too hard to find flaws in a game we know very little about.
My argument makes perfect sense. Let me clarify what I'm saying.

Game of Thrones is inspired and influenced by historic events, but the novel itself is not based on replicating the real world in the same way FFXV is. The way Game of Thrones is inspired and influenced by historic events is no different to how FFT and Tactics Ogre are. FFXV, on the other hand, is more a direct representation of the real world. The cast wear actual real world clothing by Roen, the locations are ripped straight out of the real world right down to exact replicas of famous buildings (Lucis is Shinjuku and has the Tokyo Government Building, while Accordo is Venice and has St. Mark's Basilica). Then you have other details like there being real world cars, TVs, mobile phones, etc. It's not a mature, fantasy story in its own right; it lacks integrity. Rather, it's an interpretation of the real world viewed through a Final Fantasy filter. Nomura has even said that real world global crisis situations will happen in the story. I'm thinking that means something like the atom bomb or 9/11. Sure, those are graphic and mature themes to tackle, but it's not original. It's just putting real world situations into the game, which is the very definition of unoriginal.

My apathy of FFXV is not unfounded. I've read all the interviews with Nomura about he wants to achieve with the game and seen enough footage in trailers. At this point, I'm just being cautiously optimistic. However, I'm definitely not as hyped for it as I was for FFXIII. That said, I'm excited to see how big the World Map will be and how much optional gameplay content there will be (side-quests, mini-games, etc).
 

Jenova

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Oct 28, 2013
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#30
Nomura has even said that real world global crisis situations will happen in the story. I'm thinking that means something like the atom bomb or 9/11. Sure, those are graphic and mature themes to tackle, but it's not original. It's just putting real world situations into the game, which is the very definition of unoriginal.
I think you're taking his words "too" literal and reading too much into what really isn't there. What Nomura-san probably meant was the world of FF XV would face similar global political issues such an Energy and Resources depletion crisis, Governmental shifts, Disparity between the rich and poor, human rights, and others. It won't be a carbon copy of our reality as you seem to believe.
 

1Truth2Lies

Sphere Hunter
Jul 3, 2014
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#31
I think you're taking his words "too" literal and reading too much into what really isn't there. What Nomura-san probably meant was the world of FF XV would face similar global political issues such an Energy and Resources depletion crisis, Governmental shifts, Disparity between the rich and poor, human rights, and others. It won't be a carbon copy of our reality as you seem to believe.
I'm merely going off Nomura's own words. He said there will "absolutely" be real world events in FFXV. He even said that the game will be intruded upon by the real world and things that are really happening in our lives, therefore meaning the game will feel less fiction and more reality. The points you mentioned are not what Nomura means, as all those things can be done in a strictly fictional world that has a mature story with no intrusion from reality.

Here's the quote and source so you can read and interpret Nomura's own words for yourself:
Edge Magazine: How do you consider that Versus XIII can offer this counterpoint to the Final Fantasy series?

Nomura: The stories from the past entries in the Final Fantasy series are not exactly as I would have done, but that’s as it should be because I didn’t direct them. My only concern in terms of Versus XIII is that FF always talks about human emotion and psychologies in a broad way, and I want to go deeper in terms of offering some crude reality in terms of human emotion or human behaviour. The goal, when a player holds a controller and plays an RPG, is to make them believe in another world – to experience a dream in a fictional world. It will be different in Versus XIII because of the intrusion of the real world, and things that are really happening. There will be less fiction and more reality.

Edge Magazine: Do you mean real-world events?

Nomura: Absolutely.
http://www.edge-online.com/features/interview-tetsuya-nomura/
 
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King Bimpy

Clan Centurio Member
Jul 11, 2014
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#32
"Lastly, before anybody asks, I think FFXV looks mediocre. I don't know, but it doesn't look exceptional to me. Certainly, it doesn't look like the game to conquer WRPGs. Also, by the time the game comes out it will look graphically dated. There are already PS4/One games announced that look graphically better than it, like The Division, The Witcher III, and Uncharted 4. All these games will even release before it."

Anyway, that's my opinion piece over. Thanks for reading. :)[/QUOTE]

Final Fantasy XV hasn't been ported to disc yet (don't know what it truly looks like for eighth generation though Final Fantasy is a franchise where each new entry looks better than the last and I don't doubt what Noruma can do with PS4/Xb1 when he hasn't complained about them restraining his vision), even so Noruma and others are bent on using the given hardware and new engine to put emphasis on body language, greater details on the setting to convey more of the narrative in a world driven style, and symbolic massages behind artistic techniques like adding a bit of shadowing here can mean something (similar to Shakespare's day and light or like how it was in the movie Rashomon). Hiromu Takahara is the fashion designer for clothing. He brings a modern take on the fantasy genre (low fantasy or urban fantasy?). Final Fantasy XV's overworld is mostly based on real world locations (exp: Shinjuku and Vince - even the ETC booth is similar to Japanese ones). All of this is very good for fiction in general (specifically a grounded Final Fantasy). I see no reason to become skeptical of it when Noruma is being true to each aspect. If he wasn't then he could have released Final Fantasy XV half baked on PS3 just for a cash in. Instead he went with better technology in order to complete his vision.

Of course you can have little faith in Final Fantasy XV's graphics and artwork. I just don't see any reason to think the above statement is a bad idea. And
looks on pair with Advent Children to me. When that movie came out do you know how many people ranted on how they wanted a playable version. Final Fantasy is obviously the closet JRPG to making that true according to my view point. There are few JRPGs to retain such a vibe.
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"The only way I see FF becoming mainstream in NA/EU is by copying the Skyrim blueprint and making it Open World with a mature plot. Basically, a hybrid of the mature story, voice acting, and art direction of FFXII with the world scale and volume of gameplay content in Skyrim."

You do know that you just described Final Fantasy XV. Basic research about it tells me the narrative is character and world driven mixed with politics. The themes revolve around tragedy, friendship, and family (when I say friendship I don't mean romance - Since he prefers depicting friendships over love affairs, the former will play an important role in the game's story. The burden resting on the shoulders of the protagonist and his friends might be very heavy, but nonetheless Nomura also aims to realistically show the positive aspect of their friendship, too). However, JRPGs are not WRPGs, so the game is not completely open world in the sense that you can travel to anywhere from the get go. Z is the end of the game and at the start of A players must trek to the next letter in alphabetical order. Skipping is not possible, sorry. Still the world is massive than the past few Final Fantasies. Square Enix also has something called Project Flare, which allows them to create worlds 17 times larger than Skyrim. It's unknown what game uses it. But being big for big sake is bad because you end up like Xenoblade (a dumpster for only four hundred eighty "kind sir, can you please kill 50 giant spiders", while the setting is hardly immesrive). Noruma is letting players climb on objects, tear down objects, swim (under and over), wall cover, duck tuck and roll, leap across platforms, etc... Vehicles – We don’t have any big plans for having different type of vehicles and stuff like that. There’s one you saw in the recent trailer of course. Well two things you probably could use, first, the car, the car is gonna be the vehicle you’ll use probably the most in the game. The other one, the magitek armor, you can actually control and ride the magitek armor as well, in a future reveal you’ll probably find more. It’s already possible to fly with an Airship on the World Map but the progress level of each setting is different and some parts still don’t tie together. Sounds like a good environment to explore when Noruma is fleshing it out. And this is still a Final Fantasy, so of course puzzles, mini games, and so on will be implemented.


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As a fellow gamer to another I see no reason to doubt Final Fantasy XV.
 

Crystal Power

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Nov 29, 2013
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#33
As you said 1Truth2Lies, those are your opinions but your opinions sound very biased.

Also you mention Skyrim, but didn't Skyrim do better than most WRPG's? Honestly I hear more conversation on JRPG's than any of those WRPG's you mention. Except Skyrim, which is talked about much.