FFXV discussion thread [No Spoilers]

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Oct 2, 2016
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@Sioux While getting it late December woukd be a sound idea, in my personal opinion i feel that waiting late next year would be a better place to start off fresh with FFXV. The team confirmed extended support throughout 2018 which should net a lot more QoL/storytelling inprovements, potentially making one's experience with the game even better.

And i wouln't pay too much attention to the negativity side, despite the varying degree of reception FFXV was the highest awarded RPG of 2016 in the RPG genre awards alone, wth a sizable fandom. I certainly had a genuinely fun time with it overall myself.

Anyhow, thats my take on the matter.
Right. In an attempt to speak objectively, it is a remarkable, incomplete game.
 

Storm

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Oct 26, 2013
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there's absolutely certain aspects of the game that feels incomplete, but considering the sum of all it's parts to say FFXV is incomplete it's a bit much, there's a clear beginning, middle and end, and the content justifies enough the full price.

in my book its a 8.5, a solid and original entry in the franchise (might change to a 9 depending of future improvements).
 

Jubileus

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Oct 7, 2016
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@Sioux

I recommend waiting until the end of next year, or until the support and updates for the game, comes to a conclusion.

It would be best to play the game with all the story updates and DLC for the game already released so that you can play them all in a row without having to wait for something.

Personally, I greatly enjoyed the game. The story certainly had its fair share of presentation problems with gaps and unexplained concepts.

The story presentation is the number 1 problem with the game to be honest.

Side quests and NPC development could’ve been better too.

However, there were more pros than cons in my experience.

As for the online trolls and haters, the internet in general has become a very toxic place so I wouldn’t pay too much attention to that.

Play the game yourself when the time comes and draw your own conclusions without being influenced by others if you can.
 

Nova

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Jul 14, 2015
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I noticed that for most of the post 2014 promotional material Noctis is generally market with:
  • Sword of the Father
  • Some random weapon that's not the Engine Blade
  • Weaponless
Compared to Cloud and Squall being almost always marketed with their respective Buster Sword and Gunblade.

I find this interesting.
Until the E3 2016 Q/A i honestly thought they forgot about the Engine Blade, glad i was proven wrong.
 

Sioux

Yevonite
UFFSite Veteran
Oct 7, 2013
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Rosebud, SD
Okay, so, either wait until late December, or late next year which probably just means December again.

Eh, s'alright with me. I've been looking forward more towards FFXII Remaster anyhow(It's one of my favorite titles in the series next to Tactics, VIII, & VI) despite its own inherent development problems so here's to waiting. Not to mention I can have some time to put some money away for the Fishing VR experience for XV...seriously, I love fishing in video games,absolutely love it, which is weird because it would be the very last thing you'd ever catch me in real life ever trying...again(I always become injured when I try to fish, without fail, it's weird). I also am looking forward to World of Final Fantasy. I've heard lots of good things and there's something about chibi summons, monsters, and characters from the series that makes the fanboy in me squeal...in a really manly way, real manly, like too manly.

But yes, I've heard lots of negative things and similar talking points about the gaming feeling incomplete or fragmented but, like one of you fine folks said above, a game this long in development is bound to have hiccups and issues. Hell, I'm still surprised this actually became fully realized myself. I didn't think there was ever going to be a main line title again after the commercially successful yet underwhelming, bad, good, alright, whatever, train wreck that was the FF XIII series. I barely stomached my way through FFXIII getting that platinum and was told by many reviewers, pod casts, game magazines, online articles, youtube videos, numerous comment sections and chat rooms and what have you to skip the sequels if I didn't like XIII because it only got worse so I never looked back. I didn't completely dislike XIII but, it's just not a great Final Fantasy game. It might do enough to be alright and maybe good but, it's not great. It's a shame too. The Fabula Nova Crystallis rebranding Squeenix was trying to establish definitely didn't survive very long and it shows with Type 0 and XV basically distancing themselves into brand new stories when you know they were trying to have this thematic Stephen King-esque shared Crystallis universe beforehand but, Squeenix screwed the pooch on that one...until the dog died...

I'm sure that explains a lot of the thematic, aesthetic, and possible plot dysfunctions I've heard about XV, which definitely explains the absurd development cycle...it's like they've forgotten how to make a Final Fantasy game, not to mention I've heard it doesn't link well with the media tie ins of the Brotherhood anime & Kingsglaive film very well either. So, I think I'm understanding what I'll be getting myself into in the most spoiler free way possible so, I'll hold off for now.
 
Aug 14, 2016
441
529
All over
I've been on record saying FFXV is among my favorites in the series, and I've played them all.

All the criticisms you've heard about the story -- well, they're probably right. And to be frank, no amount of extra scenes, separate DLC, etc. can fix the story structure. They'd have to redo/retcon damn near all of the story beats and rewrite some characters to bring the narrative up to the standard of the lore. To wit, the extra story content they've delivered is nice, but marginal.

Where the game shines is in the main characters and gameplay. The 4 guys are absolutely likable; the dialog and interplay between them won me over. Noctis, in particular, ended up being my favorite protagonist in the FF series. It's punctuated by fantastic vocal performances. The gameplay - I don't think I had as much actual FUN playing a FF game as this one. To be fair, it does have its share of quirks. For instance, item spam is too easy. That being said, if you're spamming items, you are probably doing it wrong. Once I got a hold of the positioning and stance aspects, even the toughest encounters required no items. The magic system didn't completely win me over, but it's minor overall.

And the game nailed the ending.

The fact that this game turned out as good as it did is extraordinary. We could discuss all day about the ins-and-outs and the woulda-coulda-shouda of the game's development. The end result is Tabata and BD2 salvaged a failed project under incredibly difficult circumstances. It does bear the scars of its development realities. It's a mixture of great ideas, good ideas half-executed, and baffling design decisions. It is clear to me that Tabata and BD2 would have kept as much of Versus if they could (playable invasion, etc.), but circumstances (and management) dictated otherwise. (And this is assuming that Versus would have been...well...good. Something tells me that the fact they rebooted it twice -- independent of SE's development issues over 10 years -- means it wasn't.)

What it is, though, is wholly original not only for the series, but AAA titles in general. For me, the sum was far, far greater than its parts.
 
Likes: Storm
All the talk in regards to the quality of XV's storytelling reminds me (for a lot of weird reasons) a lot to Shadow of the Colossus (and to a lesser extend ICO), mechaniquely they are very different games but narratively they have similar mindsets, not a lot of concerns for the bigger picture & other in-universe shenanigans but care a lot about leaving a powerful emotional mark in something very personal (and intimate) with all the power they can.

A very weird comparison but one that keeps coming back to my mind.
 
Likes: Storm

Nova

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Jul 14, 2015
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@Guitar (pseudo)God

Regarding the narrative, i personally don't feel that its impossible to notably improve it without needless retcons/re-made structure, even if the end result may not be flawless.

While i definitely for sure believe that the future story updates won't satisfy anyone who flat-out just don't like anything about the game, i still think that reasonable improvements on parts that really count within the story can pave way and add up towards FFXV gaining even more fans than it already has. Just my two cents.
 
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Storm

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@Guitar (pseudo)God

Regarding the narrative, i personally don't feel that its impossible to notably improve it without needless retcons/re-made structure, even if the end result may not be flawless.

While i definitely for sure believe that the future story updates won't satisfy anyone who just flat-out don't like anything about the game, i still think that reasonable improvements on parts that really count within the story can pave way could add up towards FFXV gaining even more fans than it already has. Just my two cents.
that's my sentiment as well, updates won't fix everything but they will improve some aspects (now we have a better understanding of the lore for example, while almost none before).

we only got 2 short story updates so far, i think at least more 3-4 of those will do a lot of good; i don't know how far they'll go to update the main story, but next year they'll basically be free of the other FFXV Universe projects, i'm optimistic.
 
Aug 14, 2016
441
529
All over
@Guitar (pseudo)God

Regarding the narrative, i personally don't feel that its impossible to notably improve it without needless retcons/re-made structure, even if the end result may not be flawless.

While i definitely for sure believe that the future story updates won't satisfy anyone who just flat-out don't like anything about the game, i still think that reasonable improvements on parts that really count within the story can pave way could add up towards FFXV gaining even more fans than it already has. Just my two cents.
Well, the bolded could mean any number of things, but it seems promising regardless.

Eurogamer said:
At what point will you consider Final Fantasy 15 complete?

Hajime Tabata: We've come, ever since the release, together with our fans - so I think it's really about when we can satisfy them and when the game can end and have a proper conclusion to it. We've got a plan up until the end of this year, but looking at that that probably wouldn't satisfy the fans out there. They want more. So I'd like to continue making stuff for the game into next year, and consider what the best way to finish it is and have that big climax next year. So next year, we'll call the end of the journey!
Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-10-11-finishing-final-fantasy-15

Apologies, don't remember who to h/t for the link.
 
Likes: Storm
I was thinking how would the perception of the story change if these things were removed/changed.
Chapter 1
Opening Title Card - The Tale of The Chosen King, Savior of The Star (remove)
Cold Opening - Fighting Ifrit (remove)

Chapter 4
Opening Title Card - The Blessing of The Gods (remove)

Chapter 5
Opening Time Skip - several days later (either shrink or remove it)

Chapter 6

Opening Time Skip - several days later (either shrink or remove it)

Chapter 10

Opening Title Card - The Scourge of The Stars (remove)
Opening Time Skip - several weeks later (either shrink or remove it)

Chapter 13

Ending Title Card - The Chosen King's Calling (remove)

This changes don't necesarily change the story itself but it does change what the audience/players will be setting up their expectations for, the title cards always striked me as giving the wrong impression.
The large time skips also gives players the (perhaps unpredicted by the BD2?) impression of missing details/glassing over events during that gap (mainly what did they do in the meantime)
Thoughts?
 

Jubileus

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Oct 7, 2016
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I was thinking how would the perception of the story change if these things were removed/changed.
Chapter 1
Opening Title Card - The Tale of The Chosen King, Savior of The Star (remove)
Cold Opening - Fighting Ifrit (remove)

Chapter 4
Opening Title Card - The Blessing of The Gods (remove)

Chapter 5
Opening Time Skip - several days later (either shrink or remove it)

Chapter 6

Opening Time Skip - several days later (either shrink or remove it)

Chapter 10

Opening Title Card - The Scourge of The Stars (remove)
Opening Time Skip - several weeks later (either shrink or remove it)

Chapter 13

Ending Title Card - The Chosen King's Calling (remove)

This changes don't necesarily change the story itself but it does change what the audience/players will be setting up their expectations for, the title cards always striked me as giving the wrong impression.
The large time skips also gives players the (perhaps unpredicted by the BD2?) impression of missing details/glassing over events during that gap (mainly what did they do in the meantime)
Thoughts?
I think you're right in that that removing some of these, especially the time skips they use as chapter transitions, would help rectify expectations.

I'm going to admit that I felt like I missed out on some stuff for the Ch5 opening. It felt completely random and I was left wondering
so... Ardyn just dropped them off like that? What happened afterwards?
It was completely jarring to be honest.

Same goes for the Ch10 opening. It just felt like I missed out on a lot of important character interactions and events.

Personally, I don't like having chapters in game's in general since it creates needless segmenting and compartmentalising of a story when it should flow naturally but that's just me.

I think the game would've benefited without the chapter approach and having a title for each chapter.
 
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Storm

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Oct 26, 2013
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Personally, I don't like having chapters in game's in general since it creates needless segmenting and compartmentalising of a story when it should flow naturally but that's just me.

I think the game would've benefited without the chapter approach and having a title for each chapter.
totally agree, it just feels like an artificial way to "categorize" the story; it doesn't add anything so...