Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

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Ikkin

SOLDIER, First Class
Oct 30, 2016
982
1,431
As it stands, the main game is the alternate events; Noct ponders what happens if he fulfills his destiny and sees how the main game plays out. DotF is the true ending, but because they couldn't flesh it out, had to trim it and make sure what they did have was strong on its own. EP: Noct even starts off with a scene like the original Versus trailer where he's fighting Niflheim soldiers.
The idea that the game that released is the AU and the novel that released later is the real canon is utterly absurd in every sense, and isn't even consistent with what the people responsible for the novel have said.

The novel is best understood as a completely separate canon, a la the alternate canons that appear in comic books sometimes ("What if Superman grew up in the USSR?").
 

ArbyWorks

Balamb Garden Freshman
Jun 3, 2018
20
34
The idea that the game that released is the AU and the novel that released later is the real canon is utterly absurd in every sense, and isn't even consistent with what the people responsible for the novel have said.

The novel is best understood as a completely separate canon, a la the alternate canons that appear in comic books sometimes ("What if Superman grew up in the USSR?").
It's more like it was the original plan, scaled back slowly until we got the base game, and then they sought to do more with the stuff they cut than originally planned. Ambition trimmed down then over-ambition flat-out cancelled.
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,665
2,381
It's more like it was the original plan, scaled back slowly until we got the base game, and then they sought to do more with the stuff they cut than originally planned. Ambition trimmed down then over-ambition flat-out cancelled.
Initial plans that were shelved but were bought back re-purposed doesn't automatically mean they can still fit into the base game's canon, as far as 2016/Royal Edition FFXV are concerned. There is a recent they were positioned into a non-canon alternate timeline after all.
 
Mar 5, 2018
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But if we want to go way back to 2006---

――プレスカンファレンスでは「痛み」のある作品ということを話していましたが、どういう意味ですか?
野村:現在のプロットは本当に痛々しいです。絆によって痛みをともなうというか、物語自体悲劇と呼ばれる感じになっていまして、あまり色気のない話になりそうなので、なんとかもうちょっと色気も出さなきゃなぁと思っているんですが(笑)。自分としては愛情よりも友情のほうが描きたいので、それがメインになると思います。かといって女性キャラがいないわけではありませんが、主軸は絆によって痛みをともなう話です。ただ、本当に痛々しいので、そのサジ加減をどうしようかと。
北瀬:さっきも言いましたが、『FFVersusXIII』はナンバリングではなかなかできないことにチャレンジしていきます。これは冒険ですね。今までやりたかったけどやれなかったことをできる舞台です。せつなさを引きずる結末を、ゲームでやってもいいと思うんです。爽快感のある終わり方がある一方で、せつなさの残る終わり方もいいんじゃないかなと思っています。
野村:今回の発表後、ダークヒーロー系の物語かという質問が多いですが、そんなカッコイイものじゃない。かといって、物語全編や登場キャラクターが全部暗いというわけではないです。痛みのある物語ですが、キャラクターや主人公を囲む友情という部分ではリアルに表現したい部分です。仲間と話をしたり、同じ時を過ごす日常は楽しい一方、彼らの背負っているものは重いという物語です。
北瀬:悲劇であっても、どこかに救いがあればいいと。
野村:これからさらに詰めていきます。
https://dengekionline.com/soft/interview/ff13/index.html
At the press conference you mentioned that one of the project's themes is "suffering", can you explain what that means?
Nomura:
The current plot is really very sad. We can say that the suffering comes from an absence of human bonds, but it is also the feeling that emerges from a tragic story. There will probably be no love story in this story, and if there is, it's not what you can imagine (laughs). You must probably think that if it is not love, it is friendship, but that does not mean that there are no female characters. It's just that the links and the suffering that characterizes them form the starting point. This is the true nature of suffering.
Kitase:You have just said that FF Versus XIII has the challenge of identifying with the numbered series. It's risky, is not it? This is something I wanted to do but which had not been possible until now. In a game, we often think of creating an open conclusion, which can be continued. On the other hand, we do not realize how much it is pleasant to have a climax that will be over.
Nomura:After the announcement, there were many questions about the place of the dark hero in the story. But there is not only one story and totally dark characters. The story is about suffering, but it's the realistic part of the feelings between the characters and the hero as part of their friendship. The story is about companions who spend their time together and share their joys and the heavy responsibilities they carry.
Kitase: Even if it's a tragedy, there will be hope somewhere.
Nomura: We'll talk about it next time.
I think what Kitase is getting at in his first response is how they may not realize yet how impactful (story-wise) it could be to have finality in the game's conclusion compared to other FFs left open to have sequels. XV's ending was final in that respect.

Resolving Noct's suffering by removing his entire burden and shifting it to the rapidly growing list of Romantic interests and the Loneliest Bitter Man in the world doesn't seem like an "original" intention in light of this interview. Now Ardyn wasn't created in 2006, so who knows what could have happened in that time. But at the end of XV,
Noct takes a picture with him that represents the time he spent with his companions - the ones who flash behind him at he resolution of his conflict. Also in classic FNC metaphysics, Noct literally binds the souls of his ancestors, loved ones, the kami, and planet to strike down the antithesis of the notion of unity and the source of suffering per this interview from 2006.

The gods don't even really matter enough in XV in order for the defeat of Bahamut to be something pinned for. Sure there's chosen and magic but the ability to tap into that power is tied to Noctis's will. His willingness to act in harmony with others for the benefit of the many over himself. Even within the framework of DoTF, the reason Bahamut wants to nuke everything is Ardyn's spiteful actions made him too powerful - and in the resolution of DoTF, Ardyn proves he's the reason everyone is suffering to the extent they are because he saves the day by simply working with other well meaning people to do something actually good.

That conclusion seems redundant and less likely to make me weep as I did after XV proper, so imo XV 2016 is more true to the "original" intent we can glean from interviews.

Lastly, even if cut assets are returning when they are being re-purposed they may not be as they were initially. Like Noct fighting in front of the citadel in Ep. Noctis resolves to carry out the canon ending after witnessing XV 2019 not DoTF's ending - so that's not the best place to draw the line.
 

Ikkin

SOLDIER, First Class
Oct 30, 2016
982
1,431
But if we want to go way back to 2006---





I think what Kitase is getting at in his first response is how they may not realize yet how impactful (story-wise) it could be to have finality in the game's conclusion compared to other FFs left open to have sequels. XV's ending was final in that respect.

Resolving Noct's suffering by removing his entire burden and shifting it to the rapidly growing list of Romantic interests and the Loneliest Bitter Man in the world doesn't seem like an "original" intention in light of this interview. Now Ardyn wasn't created in 2006, so who knows what could have happened in that time. But at the end of XV,
Noct takes a picture with him that represents the time he spent with his companions - the ones who flash behind him at he resolution of his conflict. Also in classic FNC metaphysics, Noct literally binds the souls of his ancestors, loved ones, the kami, and planet to strike down the antithesis of the notion of unity and the source of suffering per this interview from 2006.

The gods don't even really matter enough in XV in order for the defeat of Bahamut to be something pinned for. Sure there's chosen and magic but the ability to tap into that power is tied to Noctis's will. His willingness to act in harmony with others for the benefit of the many over himself. Even within the framework of DoTF, the reason Bahamut wants to nuke everything is Ardyn's spiteful actions made him too powerful - and in the resolution of DoTF, Ardyn proves he's the reason everyone is suffering to the extent they are because he saves the day by simply working with other well meaning people to do something actually good.

That conclusion seems redundant and less likely to make me weep as I did after XV proper, so imo XV 2016 is more true to the "original" intent we can glean from interviews.

Lastly, even if cut assets are returning when they are being re-purposed they may not be as they were initially. Like Noct fighting in front of the citadel in Ep. Noctis resolves to carry out the canon ending after witnessing XV 2019 not DoTF's ending - so that's not the best place to draw the line.
Thanks for reminding me about this 2006 interview.

Its focus on responsibility got me thinking -- what if XV 2016 didn't so much reject its Versus heritage as trade the lore-heavy concepts developed in the 2011-2013 era for a much simpler concept that was considered at the dawn of the project? That would explain both where the theme of maturity came from and why it seems to better reflect the earliest interviews than what we know of the final proposed form of Nomura XV.
 
May 26, 2014
566
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It's more like it was the original plan, scaled back slowly until we got the base game, and then they sought to do more with the stuff they cut than originally planned. Ambition trimmed down then over-ambition flat-out cancelled.
The original plan for FF7 was to be set in actual New York City in 1999, and the MC was a hot blooded detective named Joe before they created the character of Cloud, Edea from FF8 was originally created for FF7, then later Sephiroth and Aerith were at one point going to be siblings which Nomura noted is why they had similar hair bangs, originally the party was only going to be Cloud, Aerith and Barret, etc.

Lots of things that were originally planned does not dictate what is canon or what should be considered the true canon, this is the same with what may have originally been planned with Versus or XV that were later changed into the final XV, and even besides that there is no actually official confirmation that DotF is reusing the Versus story or whatever, whatever similarities, allusions or references people are drawing are drawing are simply just that, it's been the same way with things from XIII-2 and LR which also has similarities to what was known to be in Versus, even if it may have repurposed elements of it or whatever, none of that actually matters, the actual XV we got is the game, that is the main canon, DotF is a non canon alternate timeline, as described by them a literal "what-if" story.
 
Apr 23, 2018
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Something nobody seems to have picked up on that could be interesting. Does anyone think it was strange that there were like barely any notable characters from Accordo/Altissia, the place plays an important role in the story and it even showed up in the 2013 XV trailer as on of the big setpieces advertised. I think it's pretty much just the Secretary Claustra lady and that's it, Weskham doesn't really count because he's from Lucis.

I mean sure, Tenebrae and Niflheim barely show up in the actual game either compared to Altissia, which unlike them is an actual town, but those nations and their respective characters play more of a role in the story overall. Accordo in hindsight was more of a backdrop. We know originally there were 4 crystals in the world before they rewrote that and reduced them down to just the Lucian one, so I would've thought if Accordo had it's own crystal once it might have been more significant instead of being just a neutral trading city with no royalty or nobility in charge.

Now here's the interesting part. I wondered about that cut Niflheim Commander guy that seemed to have been merged with Ravus, Sapphirus/Safay Roth I think his name was? Well his clothes were mostly the standard Imperial white but there's also a fair amount of blue, red and gold on his outfit too, which seem to be the colors of Accordo, and Altissia is based on Venice, he even looks kind of Italian imo? He might have been what Ravus became, in that Altissia was occupied by the Empire and he joined the military but was an outsider and wanted to prove himself, maybe he was Altissian nobility? But again, too many characters and Ravus already has a small role in the base game so I can understand why they removed this guy if that's the case.

3euai67a75321.png

Concept art of Altissia with the red, blue and gold flags for reference. Also the name Sapphirus basically means a deep blue in Latin. And is also very close to a naval blue.

Alti1.jpg

Small details but worth mentioning imo. Since Sapphirus was always such a mysterious character. I don't think he would've necessarily been extremely important to the story had he been included, they probably thought there were already too many Imperials running around and felt that Ravus could've taken his place.
 
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Apr 23, 2018
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Altissia suffered changes specially with the Leviathan segment, where originally you would help on the rescuing of citizens.

also Weskham, Dino and Coctura would play slighty bigger roles, with the latter two being originally altissian spies.

I do remember them being in early concept art too. I guess there was supposed to be more going on there in terms of story beyond the Noct/Luna and Ignis stuff. But Sapphirus being an Altissian Imperial makes some sense to me, or at least it would've been cool seeing as there aren't really any cool warrior characters representing that nation, like Aranea does for the Niffs and Ravus for Tenebrae. Also wondered about what the hell Solheim was going to be since they refer to it as if it had been conquered by Niflheim in the Leviathan trailer? My far-out guess is maybe it was a ruined civilisation but not as ancient as it ended up being XV, because again, having a fourth nation in the story would've overcomplicated things.

I want to preface this by saying Ardyn's story is one of my favorite things in XV and something I wouldn't change personally. BUT a part of me thinks that maaybe he was supposed to be from Solheim, in fact back when his character's past was still a little murky I thought he might've been from Solheim before founding Lucis, but it turns out Solheim is way older than Lucis or Ardyn in XV. Again, baseless but Ardyn working with Niflheim and being from Solheim would've made some sense since the nations were always clearly going to be associated in some way, hence the names.

The most obvious one though is his name, and the names in XV are significant, ardēns, ardentis:
  1. burning, fiery
  2. shining, brilliant
  3. eager, ardent, passionate
So his name is associated with fire, Solheim is derived from the Sun. And less reliable sources claimed it was going to look middle-eastern, which reflects some old concept art of Ardyn in his modern clothes surrounded by what looks like an Arabic-inspired people. Also, Ardyn does have a red armiger which I don't think is ever really explained in XV despite him being of Lucian blood, and if Solheim did have a crystal as stated in said trailer, the red/fire color scheme would fit, along with the fact he has control over Ifrit. So if Leviathan was some kind of summon/protector of Altissia, Ifrit could've been that for Solheim.

CzJddu9UsAQoW1R.jpg

Again, could be completely wrong but I did notice his name and the names in XV usually do tell you something about the character or their lives. Ardyn was a passionate man so it could simply mean that really. But because so little was known about what Solheim was as the story evolved from Versus to XV, it does make me speculate. I think Ardyn being a Lucis Caelum makes the conflict more personal to Noctis as opposed to him being from some distant fallen nation. But I can imagine a version where Ardyn was betrayed by Solheim's crystal instead, it would justify the existence of a fourth nation in the plot. If they did remove Solheim as an active crystal nation, I can understand why, would've been too much to cover in a short time too.

I hope all this doesn't sound too crazy but it's just a thought I had. But I'm glad they ended up with what they did, Ardyn's one my favorite FF characters/villains.
 

Ikkin

SOLDIER, First Class
Oct 30, 2016
982
1,431
I do remember them being in early concept art too. I guess there was supposed to be more going on there in terms of story beyond the Noct/Luna and Ignis stuff. But Sapphirus being an Altissian Imperial makes some sense to me, or at least it would've been cool seeing as there aren't really any cool warrior characters representing that nation, like Aranea does for the Niffs and Ravus for Tenebrae. Also wondered about what the hell Solheim was going to be since they refer to it as if it had been conquered by Niflheim in the Leviathan trailer? My far-out guess is maybe it was a ruined civilisation but not as ancient as it ended up being XV, because again, having a fourth nation in the story would've overcomplicated things.

I want to preface this by saying Ardyn's story is one of my favorite things in XV and something I wouldn't change personally. BUT a part of me thinks that maaybe he was supposed to be from Solheim, in fact back when his character's past was still a little murky I thought he might've been from Solheim before founding Lucis, but it turns out Solheim is way older than Lucis or Ardyn in XV. Again, baseless but Ardyn working with Niflheim and being from Solheim would've made some sense since the nations were always clearly going to be associated in some way, hence the names.

The most obvious one though is his name, and the names in XV are significant, ardēns, ardentis:
  1. burning, fiery
  2. shining, brilliant
  3. eager, ardent, passionate
So his name is associated with fire, Solheim is derived from the Sun. And less reliable sources claimed it was going to look middle-eastern, which reflects some old concept art of Ardyn in his modern clothes surrounded by what looks like an Arabic-inspired people. Also, Ardyn does have a red armiger which I don't think is ever really explained in XV despite him being of Lucian blood, and if Solheim did have a crystal as stated in said trailer, the red/fire color scheme would fit, along with the fact he has control over Ifrit. So if Leviathan was some kind of summon/protector of Altissia, Ifrit could've been that for Solheim.

View attachment 1177

Again, could be completely wrong but I did notice his name and the names in XV usually do tell you something about the character or their lives. Ardyn was a passionate man so it could simply mean that really. But because so little was known about what Solheim was as the story evolved from Versus to XV, it does make me speculate. I think Ardyn being a Lucis Caelum makes the conflict more personal to Noctis as opposed to him being from some distant fallen nation. But I can imagine a version where Ardyn was betrayed by Solheim's crystal instead, it would justify the existence of a fourth nation in the plot. If they did remove Solheim as an active crystal nation, I can understand why, would've been too much to cover in a short time too.

I hope all this doesn't sound too crazy but it's just a thought I had. But I'm glad they ended up with what they did, Ardyn's one my favorite FF characters/villains.
It doesn't sound crazy at all. (Especially since that banner that one of the people in the crowd is holding looks like it has a stylized sun in the center. ;) )

In fact, running with your ideas, I could see something like this:

Noctis - Lucis - Bahamut (or perhaps Odin?)
Ardyn - Solheim - Ifrit
Ravus (or, more probably, Lupus) - Tenebrae - Ramuh
Sapphirus - Altissia - Leviathan
Iedolas [?] - Niflheim - Shiva
[??? - Duscae - Titan]

One advantage of the "tutelary deity" theory is that it would explain why Shiva appeared to have been killed by the Lucian reaper defenders in one of the early pieces of FFXV concept art.
 
Likes: 358/2 Belts
Apr 23, 2018
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It doesn't sound crazy at all. (Especially since that banner that one of the people in the crowd is holding looks like it has a stylized sun in the center. ;) )

In fact, running with your ideas, I could see something like this:

Noctis - Lucis - Bahamut (or perhaps Odin?)
Ardyn - Solheim - Ifrit
Ravus (or, more probably, Lupus) - Tenebrae - Ramuh
Sapphirus - Altissia - Leviathan
Iedolas [?] - Niflheim - Shiva
[??? - Duscae - Titan]

One advantage of the "tutelary deity" theory is that it would explain why Shiva appeared to have been killed by the Lucian reaper defenders in one of the early pieces of FFXV concept art.
I think the Astrals were more like "forces of nature" that protected their territory, which happened to be where Humans built their cities. That or they were tied to the magic of the crystals similar how the Crystals created the Eidolons in Orience, so they were more like "guardian spirits/animals" of their nations instead of being these disinterested, vengeful deities, like Leviathan. A cool idea, in FFXI's lore, the Goddess of Vana'diel would "reward" legendary warriors by reincarnating them as summons, implying they all used to be Human once, for Versus, a game centered around Death and Souls, that could've fit perfectly for the summons of Eos, similar to how Noctis wields ghosts swords of past kings, the summons could be souls of past l'cie the crystals have immortalised. No evidence to support this though, just thought it'd be a cool idea that fits with the themes of the early story :embarrassed:.

On the subject of Niflheim, it seems their iconography was based around either Bahamut or Diabolos, judging by their clothing and flags. There's some concept art of a more beastly looking Bahamut battling Odin outside the Citadel; who I'd assume had ties to Lucis if Bahamut had something to do with the Empire, not too out-there to theorise that Niflheim were weaponising summons, if they'd been accumulating the crystals and magic in the world. Also Bahamut is the God of War in XV, a role usually fulfilled by Odin in most games, why he was omitted entirely from XV despite being in the game files is unknown, but I'm guessing Bahamut simply replaced him because he's more iconic imo.

IMG_20190515_005842.jpg

As for Lupus, probably associated with Tenebrae. I definitely think he was called Lupus originally. In Latin, Ravus means grey/silver and in his early designs he's blonde and has the mark of a wolf (Fenrir?) on his clothing. Funnily enough they forgot to remove Fenrir from his arm in the pocket edition. Really just a guess but if Lupus wasn't originally the High Commander and Sapphirus was, I'd assume he was more of a lone-wolf that had his own mission and preferred working alone. Maybe Fenrir was his Eidolon because he had failed to protect Tenebrae's crystal and exiled himself, becoming a nomad, and Fenrir allies itself with those who wander alone, a man with no nation, Venom Ravus :happy:? Again, I can see why they would merge him with Sapphirus, it makes him more involved in the conflict as opposed to being a loner doing his own thing.

PicsArt_05-15-01.11.57.jpg
 
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Likes: Storm
Apr 23, 2018
41
82
I do remember them being in early concept art too. I guess there was supposed to be more going on there in terms of story beyond the Noct/Luna and Ignis stuff. But Sapphirus being an Altissian Imperial makes some sense to me, or at least it would've been cool seeing as there aren't really any cool warrior characters representing that nation, like Aranea does for the Niffs and Ravus for Tenebrae. Also wondered about what the hell Solheim was going to be since they refer to it as if it had been conquered by Niflheim in the Leviathan trailer? My far-out guess is maybe it was a ruined civilisation but not as ancient as it ended up being XV, because again, having a fourth nation in the story would've overcomplicated things.

I want to preface this by saying Ardyn's story is one of my favorite things in XV and something I wouldn't change personally. BUT a part of me thinks that maaybe he was supposed to be from Solheim, in fact back when his character's past was still a little murky I thought he might've been from Solheim before founding Lucis, but it turns out Solheim is way older than Lucis or Ardyn in XV. Again, baseless but Ardyn working with Niflheim and being from Solheim would've made some sense since the nations were always clearly going to be associated in some way, hence the names.

The most obvious one though is his name, and the names in XV are significant, ardēns, ardentis:
  1. burning, fiery
  2. shining, brilliant
  3. eager, ardent, passionate
So his name is associated with fire, Solheim is derived from the Sun. And less reliable sources claimed it was going to look middle-eastern, which reflects some old concept art of Ardyn in his modern clothes surrounded by what looks like an Arabic-inspired people. Also, Ardyn does have a red armiger which I don't think is ever really explained in XV despite him being of Lucian blood, and if Solheim did have a crystal as stated in said trailer, the red/fire color scheme would fit, along with the fact he has control over Ifrit. So if Leviathan was some kind of summon/protector of Altissia, Ifrit could've been that for Solheim.

View attachment 1177

Again, could be completely wrong but I did notice his name and the names in XV usually do tell you something about the character or their lives. Ardyn was a passionate man so it could simply mean that really. But because so little was known about what Solheim was as the story evolved from Versus to XV, it does make me speculate. I think Ardyn being a Lucis Caelum makes the conflict more personal to Noctis as opposed to him being from some distant fallen nation. But I can imagine a version where Ardyn was betrayed by Solheim's crystal instead, it would justify the existence of a fourth nation in the plot. If they did remove Solheim as an active crystal nation, I can understand why, would've been too much to cover in a short time too.

I hope all this doesn't sound too crazy but it's just a thought I had. But I'm glad they ended up with what they did, Ardyn's one my favorite FF characters/villains.
Now an argument you could make against Ardyn being from Solheim is that it does make him less connected to Noctis and the Lucis Caelum line. BUT, at least to me, there seem to be hints that Gladio's father Clarus was going to play a role in the fall of Insomnia, meaning he would've been an internal threat for Lucis and a more personal conflict for Noctis to resolve. Titus Drautos feels like a character created as a compromise, because making Gladio's father a traitor would've undoubtedly overcomplicated the plot and would have to be addressed in the game, something they may not have had time for nor wanted, making the traitor someone more personal to Nyx makes more sense for the movie too. Back when Noctis and the bros were still present for the invasion of Insomnia, Clarus being the one to backstab Regis would've made much more sense. Also he's featured in the promotional art as a significant player, but he's almost a complete non-entity in XV, and even got a redesign.

And I mean come on, this guy looks kind of shady...

a8BhGbx.jpg

It's possible he wasn't going to be pure evil, and that Regis was more of morally grey and pragmatic King like Somnus, the Yakuza aesthetic suggests as much. Maybe the relationship between Somnus and Ardyn was derived from Regis and Clarus' dynamic? This would also have given Gladiolus more of a reason to doubt Noctis as he does in the later parts of XV, because his father believed they were unworthy. Also I remember watching a video analysing the Shakespearean themes present in Versus and XV, it mentioned many parallels to Hamlet which was about the son avenging the murder of his father by the treacherous uncle.

So again, this is mostly just theorycrafting. But it's possible there was a stage in XV's development where Ardyn was tied to Solheim and Clarus was more of the Lucian threat. Because the developers were so cagey with info about Solheim, I have to think it had some kind of spoilery nature to it, like it was Ardyn's home or the origin point of the Starscourge, similar to the roles of Trabia Garden and Zanarkand in VIII and X. Because there wasn't really anything spoiler heavy about Solheim in XV, it doesn't factor into the main story very much at all, at least not when it launched.

But I think that's enough for now. You get the idea.
 
May 26, 2014
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I never really bought into the idea that Clarus was going to betray Regis or that he was shady just because of that one CG render of him smiling, like Gladio has the same smile in the CG face render too.


It actually reminds me a lot of back in 2008 when the DKΣ3713 Versus trailer dropped and most people thought that the man in the suit, who would later be revealed to be Noctis's father, was going to be the main villain just because he looked angry in that scene.


Only for the 2011 Versus trailer to show him smiling towards Noct from his POV and with a redesign, and everyone basically stopped going along with the thought that Noctis's father is the big bad.


So anytime I hear of some supposed "versus xiii leak" that says Clarus was the one who killed Regis or betrayed him or was the main villain whatever, I just see that as an extension of what people were speculating based on what little info we had at the time, and then them framing it as a "leak" after the fact so that people think it was actually supposed to be the case.

If you actually watch the 2013 and 2014 CG scene of Regis vs Iedolas you can see that Clarus is the one who actually first summons his weapons and points them against Iedolas before Regis even does so, in fact Regis just stands there perfectly still while only his men summon their weapons against Niflheim with Clarus being the first one to do so, so if anything the fact that he went to defend Regis first before Regis did anything shows more that Clarus was loyal in his role to defend Regis, rather than any "oh he betrayed regis because his face looks shady" or whatever.




I also think its worth noting again that Clarus and Regis's men, along with Iedolas's men were not in the 2011 Versus CG version of this scene, and Regis also had summoned different weapons. In 2011 Versus Regis was there alone with Iedolas, and Regis had summoned the Engine Blade and some other weapons, which all were changed by the 2013 CG scene, alongside with the colour correction being changed from orange-ish to a more greenish grey. The context of the weapon summoning is also slightly changed because in 2011 it is implied Regis while standing still and being there alone is the one who summoned all those weapons around him, while in 2013 it's implied that Regis's men summoned all those weapons around him as we see them summoning them. Maybe some of the weapons closer to Iedolas were summoned by Regis too as it's not necessary even for Noct to make any specific body movement to summon weapons, but it does make the context change a little.





 
Apr 23, 2018
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I never really bought into the idea that Clarus was going to betray Regis or that he was shady just because of that one CG render of him smiling, like Gladio has the same smile in the CG face render too.


It actually reminds me a lot of back in 2008 when the DKΣ3713 Versus trailer dropped and most people thought that the man in the suit, who would later be revealed to be Noctis's father, was going to be the main villain just because he looked angry in that scene.


Only for the 2011 Versus trailer to show him smiling towards Noct from his POV and with a redesign, and everyone basically stopped going along with the thought that Noctis's father is the big bad.


So anytime I hear of some supposed "versus xiii leak" that says Clarus was the one who killed Regis or betrayed him or was the main villain whatever, I just see that as an extension of what people were speculating based on what little info we had at the time, and then them framing it as a "leak" after the fact so that people think it was actually supposed to be the case.

If you actually watch the 2013 and 2014 CG scene of Regis vs Iedolas you can see that Clarus is the one who actually first summons his weapons and points them against Iedolas before Regis even does so, in fact Regis just stands there perfectly still while only his men summon their weapons against Niflheim with Clarus being the first one to do so, so if anything the fact that he went to defend Regis first before Regis did anything shows more that Clarus was loyal in his role to defend Regis, rather than any "oh he betrayed regis because his face looks shady" or whatever.




I also think its worth noting again that Clarus and Regis's men, along with Iedolas's men were not in the 2011 Versus CG version of this scene, and Regis also had summoned different weapons. In 2011 Versus Regis was there alone with Iedolas, and Regis had summoned the Engine Blade and some other weapons, which all were changed by the 2013 CG scene, alongside with the colour correction being changed from orange-ish to a more greenish grey. The context of the weapon summoning is also slightly changed because in 2011 it is implied Regis while standing still and being there alone is the one who summoned all those weapons around him, while in 2013 it's implied that Regis's men summoned all those weapons around him as we see them summoning them. Maybe some of the weapons closer to Iedolas were summoned by Regis too as it's not necessary even for Noct to make any specific body movement to summon weapons, but it does make the context change a little.





Oh, I don't think Noctis' father was ever going to be evil, just flawed maybe, in XV he isn't portrayed as perfect, people doubt him because he pulled back the wall, but he's ultimately a someone trying to do what's right for the world. I think it's more of an aesthetic thing if anything, on the surface Lucis appear as more of a righteous "good guy" nation in XV/Kingsglaive, but underneath that they aren't so perfect, as everything they built was founded on lies (Ardyn and Somnus). The earlier picture that was being painted of Lucis was that they were a nation of reaper worship, and there was a bit of a Yakuza look with the Lucis Caelums, which may have been to throw us off and make us think they were shady, when the truth is Lucis has flaws but it isn't diabolically evil.

So, the look of Lucis may have changed slightly but I don't think they were much different from a moral standpoint. Like you said, Regis clearly cares about Noctis and seems like a decent guy from those early trailers, maybe he was written to have a slightly more formal or cold exterior to others but I think that would be the full extent of any "differences". I don't think any of those "leaks" about Noctis running a Yakuza drug cartel are very credible, they cross the line from dark to overtly edgy, they got a chuckle out of me though.

As for Clarus, my points mainly stem from curiosity as to why he was presented as a main cast member in the 2013 trailer, that really has me wondering about his role in the story back when the the insomnia prologue was still a part of the game. You'd assume that there was probably always a traitor among the Lucians, but we don't know if Drautos existed back in those days, similar to Nyx maybe not being a thing either until Kingsglaive was conceived after they decided Noctis would no longer be present for the invasion.

An alternative is that if Clarus was always on Regis' side, maybe he took over after Regis' death, it seems Noctis was still in the Citadel's Crystal Chamber after the Niflheim attack in the earlier trailer, plotting some kind of counter-attack with Ignis? Unless this is somehow before the invasion, it implies Insomnia didn't completely fall after losing the crystal to Niflheim, more of a hit and run attack maybe? But the simple fact is, traitor to the throne, successor or shield, Clarus had at least a slightly bigger role in one version of the story, or that's what marketing lead us to believe.

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Also I didn't notice those two Regis vs Aldercapt cutscenes were different, did they completely re-render it? Regis looks slightly older in the other one.
 
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