Is FFXV the first time FF made a generational leap without significant compromises?

[Ikkin]

I've been playing FFVIII for the first time recently (having gotten into the series with IX), and it's been rather eye-opening to see how far Square managed to push cinematic integration back in 1999 before essentially abandoning it for a decade and a half. The setpieces we've been shown from FFXV have, if anything, a more direct line of descent from FFVIII than they do from more contemporary cinematic games like Uncharted... but if I'd only played the FF games after VIII, I'd never have been able to guess that.

And that got me thinking about how FF games have historically almost always lost something in the shift between generations, even if it's obvious what they gained by making those sacrifices. The NES to SNES shift was probably the most painless, but even there, it seems like they generally shrunk the number of enemies in favor of making them more detailed (and adding full backgrounds to the battlefields). The SNES to PSOne shift dropped the standard party count from four to three as well, and the change to pre-rendered field backgrounds -- while an enormous boon with respect to overall presentation -- required a decrease in the overall size and complexity of those fields and made limits on endgame exploration inevitable. And then, when PSOne gave way to PS2, FFX married the less-ambitious/more FMV-focused presentation of FFIX with the removal of the world map and another major decrease in field complexity and set mainline Final Fantasy on the road it's been on ever since. (FFXIII, as much as it's criticized, really just took X's alterations to their logical conclusion.)

In light of all that, FFXV sort of seems like the first time FF's really gone back, recognized what it's given up, and sought to retake all of it. It's increased the enemy count far beyond what the series has ever attempted, reinstated a full four-man party (with guests serving as a fifth member rather than a replacement), created a massive world with extensive towns and dungeons that will remain open in the endgame, offered at least as much freedom as any early FF, and picked up where VIII left off with regards to cinematic presentation (only in real-time this time). The only real sacrifice it made was the decrease in directorial control inherent in allowing events to happen at any time of day due to a day/night cycle... and even that doesn't really hold the game back in comparison with its predecessors.

So, what do you think? Is FFXV doing something new by not dialing back existing systems in the name of progress? Or did I forget something big that FFXV had to give up?

 

[Koozek]

Interesting, haven't thought about it like that. It technically is the ultimate FF. Now maybe some would argue that complete control over the whole party got lost, but other than that I can't think of anything else right now.

 

[Bionicle8563]

I think the thing is that, even if they have taken out feature seen in previous FF games, I think they've adequately made up for it in some meaningful way. I haven't played all previous FF games so I can't really comment on all of them, but in terms of broad strokes I think that:

Controlling Party Members <=> Being able to use all weapons (+unique ones) + Have special commands + Special Combos

A plethora of spells <=> Craftable Magic with interesting and meaningful (IMO) modifiers + Ring Magic (although we've only seen 1 spell, and assume that its just classic spells that we've seen before)

A variety of characters <=> (I really don't know how this has been replaced, but I think lore-wise it all makes sense)

Turn-Based battle system <=> Somewhat challenging Active Battle System (or at least it looks challenging, as in you can't just go head on into random enemies and you have to resource manage as well as position, and needing time strikes and blocks [although the blocks are quite apparent, the window to do so is not so big as to make it meaningless])

Hmm, Idk what else is that different really. There is probably more that someone more knowledgeable can talk about.

 

[Ikkin]

Interesting, haven't thought about it like that. It technically is the ultimate FF. Now maybe some would argue that complete control over the whole party got lost, but other than that I can't think of anything else right now.

Does XV really count as the first FF game without full party control, though? Even ignoring the MMOs, XIII only lets you choose commands for the party leader and XII hates your guts if you try to play it as an ATB game instead of making heavy use of gambits.

 

[Koozek]

Does XV really count as the first FF game without full party control, though? Even ignoring the MMOs, XIII only lets you choose commands for the party leader and XII hates your guts if you try to play it as an ATB game instead of making heavy use of gambits.

Right. I personally don't care about that missing anyway. Noctis is an one man army, I don't need anyone else

 

[Ikkin]

I think the thing is that, even if they have taken out feature seen in previous FF games, I think they've adequately made up for it in some meaningful way. I haven't played all previous FF games so I can't really comment on all of them, but in terms of broad strokes I think that:

Well, most of the previous sacrifices were justified, too. The difference, I think, is that the previous trade-offs seemed more necessary due to technology than a simple matter of game design.

Controlling Party Members <=> Being able to use all weapons (+unique ones) + Have special commands + Special Combos

It's sort of ironic, actually -- while XII and XIII did give more control over party members' actions overall, XV's special commands give you a more direct sort of control (at least in terms of choosing to trigger a specific attack at a specific time) than you'd get playing those games the way they want you to play them. There's no real technical element to this trade-off, either.

A plethora of spells <=> Craftable Magic with interesting and meaningful (IMO) modifiers + Ring Magic (although we've only seen 1 spell, and assume that its just classic spells that we've seen before)

It seems like the modifiers on elemental spells are going to account for status effects and maybe buffs/debuffs, so the only real loss would be the unique spell animations. (I know I'd be much more likely to use a Firaga & Poison spell than one that just cast poison. XD ) And considering how impressive the three elements and ring magic we have seen are, I can't really blame them for that trade-off.

A variety of characters <=> (I really don't know how this has been replaced, but I think lore-wise it all makes sense)

The trade-off for having only four permanent party members seems to be the ability to focus all of the battle and writing teams' efforts on those four and give them greater depth in the process. Not to mention, the game's entirely capable of throwing in a fifth member as a guest, and the inclusion of guests bumps up the total amount of party members to a number more on par with post PSOne FFs (i.e. 6-7).

Turn-Based battle system <=> Somewhat challenging Active Battle System (or at least it looks challenging, as in you can't just go head on into random enemies and you have to resource manage as well as position, and needing time strikes and blocks [although the blocks are quite apparent, the window to do so is not so big as to make it meaningless])

That's pretty much the opposite of a trade-off made for technical reasons. It seems likely to be a fair trade either way, though.

Hmm, Idk what else is that different really. There is probably more that someone more knowledgeable can talk about.

If we're going for changes of any sort, how about party banter taking the place of a significant portion of what might otherwise go into cut scenes, or the day/night and weather cycles removing a bit of directorial control in the less plot-critical cut scenes?