Lightning Returns *SPOILERS* thread

[Fleur]

It's about time someone knocks up a spoiler thread for the game, seeing as a few of us have already been discussing the ending to the game in the other thread, cluttering it up with spoiler tags.

If mods permit, we will use this thread to discuss plot points and the ending to the game. I was thinking of a thread with unmarked spoilers, but someone who does not wish to be spoiled can always accidentally click their way into this thread. For the time being, let's stick to spoiler tagging our posts in here.

Additionally, perhaps it may help to structure our sentences and spoiler tagging placements in a particular way. Posts that have no visible context apart from a spoiler tag like this:

Spoiler

"Lightning is finally revealed to be a piece of smartphone operating system software called Android 2.1 Eclair, which was inexplicably given life and a physical form thanks to a combination of Bhunivelze, aka Andy Rubin and Google Inc."

can be about ANYTHING to do with the plot. How would anyone know which part it is referring to unless they reveal the spoiler content? It may be a spoiler about a particular part of the game that they have yet to reach or see. So rather than doing that, something like this would be more considerate and appropriate:

"Regarding the ending sequence of the game:

Spoiler

So Commander Shepard doesn't even have a choice and just blindly accepts what the God Child says, leading to flashes of either blue, red or green? WORST ENDING EVER.

"

Okay, let's do it people.

 

[Nikolasvanitas]

I am just gonna post my opinion here,I dont want to cause any arguments,so please understand that this is just an opinion about the game and my aim is not to offend fans of the FF13 series,especially since I have played the other 2 games

With all due respect to the FF XIII fans the ending of LR-FF XII is by far the strangest thing I have seen in the series and the square enix games.
Its not the worst in the case of Jrpgs but for a series like FF that ending is absolutely out of place.
Some of the actions and cutscenes/dresses in the game are really awkward and embarrassing especially to Lightning,who they tried so hard to establish as a stoic heroic female protagonist,just seeing her in some of the outfits in the game doing the slutty victory poses was disappointing.
Also the NPCs wearing ridiculous hats/glasses from the adornments of the FF XIII-2 monsters made them look ridiculous,especially because the size of the adornments was bigger than their heads.

On the other hand I would encourage the loyal fans of this series to play this game,the gameplay and exploration are fun and I think that they did a really good job in those departments,also I really liked the designs of the new monsters,they look like Dark Souls/FFXII style of monsters.
Additionally I liked the design of the weapons and the option to equip different types of swords/staffs/spears and shields all with different stats,abilites and amazing decorations completely different from the awkward style of the dresses.

To conclude I believe that the hardcore FF13 community must be the most satisfied fans in the series,they got a trilogy which is something new to FF games but I hope that in the future the developers will remember the old recipe of one unique mainline final fantasy ,with new characters/world and plot which is different from the past entries

 

[Ehren]

I was, quite personally, disappointed with the twist at the very end. I enjoyed what I saw of the game right up to that point though, the ending was really cool and had plot references to older games like V and VII. The last little bit really dampened my excitement though, and while I'll still get the game and enjoy playing it I will probably skip that last part.

 

[Fleur]

So, for anyone who has already seen or read up on the ending of the game (Lightning Returns AND Xenoblade spoilers ahoy):

Spoiler

Spoiler

Bunnybelts is defeated after Lightning fights her in space. Fighting a God in space. Just like Xenoblade. I thought his crystallising body was hurled into the sun, but it looks like he is just lying down dead somewhere in the dark, while Caius confronts Noel. Didn't get what that was about, and why, but as the main characters depart to use the power of the crystals to create a new world, Caius hands Yeul to Noel. We see the Solar System. Then we see Earth.

Lightning gets off a train. Flanders poppies. French signs. Probably France. If not, Flanders, Belgium, but everyone knows that Flanders is full of WW1 bomb craters. She's actually dressed like a normal person, and steps out to gaze at a beautiful French countryside on a cheery afternoon, preparing to attend Snow's and Serah's wedding. And for some reason, we don't see what has become of everyone else. I suppose the CGI budget ran out there, so the later Ultimania book will probably be covering that instead of actually showing it in the game. But oh well. Toriyama had to end with a smiling Lightning there, to utterly and unambiguously let us know that she is happy, even though adjusting to such a radically different world can't be easy. And once again, like Xenoblade.

Overall, it's a very anime-like ending. And it works. It is coherent with the whole theme of sticking it to the Gods and forging one's own fate, even though that is such a massively-abused trope and plot point in Japanese storytelling now. We all at this point had to expect a final, conclusive happy ending for everyone, this time without having two of the main characters stuck in crystal somewhere. That being said, it's still dumb. I called Xenoblade out on its "beat-up-God-and-forge-a-new-world" plot point, and I will also call out Lightning Returns for doing this. It sounds ridiculous to imagine all of this from the very beginning of the Hanging Edge up to Lightning in an idyllic rural region of our world's France or wherever, but there you go. Maybe if Toriyama and Watanabe didn't explicitly make the new world Earth, and kept it ambiguous enough like Xenoblade (which from I understand, is just a new world and not necessarily the old real Earth that Zanza destroyed), I'll find it a wee bit more palatable, but then again, I've never personally held much hope for this game's storyline and storytelling anyway. It was always about the gameplay and the explorable world.

I think we can safely rule out any idea of "Earth" being Noctis's world. =P

Well, when I say "Earth", I mean our planet with a messed-up Europe geographically:

And some screens from the last sequence:

-------------------------------

I hope that in the future the developers will remember the old recipe of one unique mainline final fantasy ,with new characters/world and plot which is different from the past entries

It would certainly be nice not to be saddled with the thought of a trilogy per gen, especially for people who aren't fans of it in particular.

In terms of development nowadays, unless they've mastered the art of Ubisoft slave labour in the many thousands and a conveyer belt factory system, they're not going to feasibly produce all these assets and a whole world with its own lore for just one game and leave it be. RPGs take enough time to make as they do, and Japan is extra-slow and inefficient compared to its counterparts in BioWare, CD Projekt, etc. If they do aspire to produce more direct sequels, they can - and I think they will increasingly become the norm and not the exception - but it shouldn't be at the expense of another numbered game. I'm hoping that the PS4 and Xbox One will at least have a FFXVI to go along with Nomura's Versus Epic.

 

[Ehren]

All righty. Here's a large number of very spoilery shots from the ending- I took the liberty of going through by-frame and picking out the clearest important bits, although I forgot to take a shot or two from the beginning of it. Please note this is just part one of many, as I took a lot of shots and there are some restrictions on the site for how many pictures you can put in one post.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Sorry for the triple spoiler,.

Spoiler

 

[Ehren]

Second batch below the triple-spoiler.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Ehren]

Final set for the time being.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Storm]

Spoiler

I admit its a bit weird, but it is confirmed that is Earth? Well, it could be a similar planet.

Either way, I like to view this epilogue as symbolic rather than literal.

 

[Fleur]

~snip~

Spoiler

Spoiler

I just find it funny that a world without ANY divine entity whatsoever (because they've all been killed), where humans are free to dictate their own fates, would be portrayed as our Earth. Yeah, I know no one really flat says this is Earth or this is France, but the hints are there so that we can easily infer it, but by doing this, the writers are telling us that in our world, or a perfect world, God shouldn't/doesn't exist. =P

 

[Mateus.E]

Well,I was rather flushed because I spent months cogitating on possible twists...and well,some of them didn't happen.But the Lumina one did,according to this.She indeed faded back into Lightning...http://tensai-shoujo.tumblr.com/post/67829284472/lumina.And Lightning finally recognized and accepted her former self.Looks like Hope aided her...
Well,that chaos Yeul theory was rather dumb,so I wasn't surprised it was wrong.

Well,I got ample compensation,though,thanks to Lumina.Bhunivelze,though was rather disappointing,compared to Caius.Ahh,if that misunderstanding I had of him being manipulating Hope from the start or middle of the trilogy was right,instead of just possessing him now on the end,he would have been a fucking antagonist,in my opinion.Oh well,spilled milk.Bhuni can still have some usefulness.Looks like he is mightly impossible.Well,we will see about that in feb.

Bhuni chose Hope as his vessel,because he had a strong and noble soul.Because he loves purity,he made Hope return to be a child.Because he thinks emotions are garbage,he has been torturing him for 169 years,to condition him into becoming a perfect emotionless vessel.By endgame I supposed he finally dumped his soul and possessed his body.He chose Lightning not only as the savior,but also,supposedly,as a new Godess of Death,who could see and guide souls,while he couldn't.Some god he is.He tried to dump her emotions,too bad they were too strong for him...and they even managed to one up him,thanks to Lumina..http://tensai-shoujo.tumblr.com/post/67826237675/bhunivelzes-true-plan

Also,the earth thing....I checked that image,and it is preposterous.That africa some dumb fan drew includes sea areas,and that europe drawing considers some land to be sea.Well,it is ridiculous...It could be XV's world,though...

 

[UNKLE]

What a stupid ending still FF13-1 ending was perfect/pretty great.Where is snow and the others?

 

[vagrant_soul]

Bhuni chose Hope as his vessel,because he had a strong and noble soul.Because he loves purity,he made Hope return to be a child.Because he thinks emotions are garbage,he has been torturing him for 169 years,to condition him into becoming a perfect emotionless vessel.By endgame I supposed he finally dumped his soul and possessed his body.He chose Lightning not only as the savior,but also,supposedly,as a new Godess of Death,who could see and guide souls,while he couldn't.Some god he is.He tried to dump her emotions,too bad they were too strong for him...and they even managed to one up him,thanks to Lumina..http://tensai-shoujo.tumblr.com/post/67826237675/bhunivelzes-true-plan
.

Hope can't seem to catch a break, even from god( Japan, I better get some yaoi doujins of Hope getting tortured for my three month wait!):cookie:

 

[Kagari]

I made this video with music from G Gundam timed to part of the ending video:

If you don't know G Gundam or don't get the reference then.... I am sad for you.

 

[Squirrel Emperor]

Personally... I'm surprised she's not getting out of a taxi in front of Toriyama's house.

 

[ImminentBread]

Well. That was... interesting. I must say, I'm more hyped than ever now to actually play the game.
In regard to the ending:

Spoiler

Spoiler

In hindsight, all that talk about linking the game's world with the real world was actually a really huge hint for it, if that really is Earth.

 

[Somber]

Spoiler

Though the chances are very low, Lightning has 1% to appear in XV

 

[mincci]

I felt that the ending was like a mixture of

Spoiler

FFX (the summons)
FFVII (those lifestream looking soul stream things)
KH ("my friends are my power!" kinda)
Fullmetal Alchemist (coming to our world at the end)

Nice job Toriyama.

 

[Storm]

Spoiler

Well, I didnt liked the epilogue that much. I hope they actually confirms in the Ultimania that it wasnt Earth.

Anyway, the epilogue itself works in a symbolical way imo.

 

[Storm]

I just don't see the problem of it actually being earth.

Honestly, would it be any different if Lightning and Co. had come to - I dunno - Planet Oozla from Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando?

Its actually very personal, I dont think its bad (my fav game of all time did this), but it just gives me a weird feeling. to me would be better if it was a unknown planet.

 

[Alleo]

About the ending:

Spoiler

Spoiler

So did they start a completely new life (were reborn) or did they just wake up on the new world? Since they showed Hope´s parents and his chance that he could be reborn as their child again does this mean that everyone was saved? Even the one that died before the ending of XIII-2?
I also hope that this is a planet that only looks a lot like earth but is not earth itself. It just feels strange that they possibly live on our planet now. We don´t have chocobos and moogles, nor do we have any kind of fantasy monsters. So for me this kinda destroys the part about the fantasy. Even in the world of XV which is based on reality, there are still monsters roaming around. But this is not happening if this is really our planet. If this is our earth than I wonder what happened with Mog, the little chocobo and the eidolons? Are they reborn as something different? I´m happy for them but at the same time a little disappointed. I just can´t picture them in our world I mean it just odd picturing Lightning, Fang etc. in a office or in other common jobs. And its probably strange for them too. And did they (especially Lightning) just lose all of their power? I mean they just defeated a god And if there is no god anymore does this mean that there is no afterlife? For me the best ending would have been a little scene of the wedding. Everyone would be there and it ends with Lightning smiling. No hints that this could be our world just showing the important characters so that everyone could imagine what they want.
All of this is just my opinion I know that we can´t change anything (and I think that this petition is stupid) and I´m happy that there was a good ending with everyone alive but still I wish they would have gone a different route.

Sorry for my bad english