Pitioss theories

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Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
696
802
#21
perona77 did get the part about Ifrit dying on the Rock of Ravatogh right though. The "horn" design is a giveaway of that, as well as that screenshot saying so.

Just no Eos wing justification...yet?
At this point, I'm convinced that the goddess figure has been scrubbed from the game's mythos entirely, so it's unlikely that we're ever going to get any justification for the wing or in-game explanation of who the goddess figure actually is. >_>;

I like this version. The one-winged "goddess" figure was never adequately explained. I still don't think the Oracle could purely fill that role, and in pre-release material the Astrals weren't specifically called gods.
Thanks. ^_^

The one-winged goddess figure was specifically stated to be "the most important goddess" back in 2015, so I don't think there's any question that it was meant to be separate from the Oracle at least initially. It's clear that they mythos changed a lot, though, and it seems like they decided that having that figure represent the Oracle was better from a cost-benefit analysis perspective than trying to explain a goddess figure whose impact on the game had become minimal.

As such, I'm pretty confident now that Pitioss represents a mid-point between Versus and the current version of XV rather than a hidden part of the mythos of XV as it now stands.

Oh yes, a little added detail. "Shigai" also the term used for "Cie'th" in the Japanese versions of the other FNC titles.
Yeah, I've seen that (even if it didn't feel entirely necessary to bring up for the purposes of the video). An interesting quirk is that FFXV and the other FNC titles render "shigai" differently; the FF Wiki's FFXIII-related pages uses katakana for "shi" and kanji for "gai" while the FFXV Ultimania uses katakana throughout.

If you want a reason for Ifrit to attack, maybe humans were getting too socially, magically or technologically advanced for the Astrals to control. I can just hear several Astrals thinking these "puny, insignificant things" don't have the right to be like this, them being nothing compared to divine beings. Maybe Ifrit suggested wiping them out (with the Starscourge, one assumes), but was outvoted by the rest of the Six in favor of something less drastic and more manipulative. If Ifrit acted against a common consensus, that would be reason for the other Astrals to attack, if only to save their own control and later paint Ifrit as a betrayer.

But back to Pitioss, if Ifrit were using a human as a host to bring the Starscourge against the wishes of the Six, that would be in keeping with @Ikkin's theory, and even explain why Ramuh would try to stop Ifrit. As to the Goddess figure, she would be the one to bless this human and/or their lineage with the ability to stop Ifrit's scheme from destroying humanity.
I'm reluctant to assume that the non-Ifrit Astrals are, essentially, the FFXV version of the Occuria given how much interest they seem to take in helping humanity out. The powers they offer are too overwhelming for humans to withstand for very long, but most of their known actions seemed to have been intended less to control humanity and more to offer assistance.

None of them seemed all too concerned about social, magical, or technological, either, given that Insomnia became the most advanced society in all of Eos largely because of their power. It's more plausible that they'd have been anti-Magitek, but given what Magitek is, there'd be a good reason for that. XD;

Anyway, I'm inclined to think that the missing goddess represented the planet itself, which could offer a potential explanation for Ifrit's betrayal. If Solheim's technology was actively destroying the planet (and, in the version of the mythos that included a goddess, corrupted said goddess as a result) it's plausible that that could have triggered Ifrit's wrath and pushed him to attempt to wipe out humanity with the Scourge in defiance of the other Astrals.

For what it's worth, I don't think Ifrit used a human as a host for the Starscourge, at least initially. I've heard that some of the other translations of the game (particularly the German one) state that the Scourge came on the meteor.

One way that the with-goddess version of the mythos could go is this:
1) Solheim's Magitek starts to cause damage to the planet and corrupts the goddess
2) Ifrit is enraged by the damage to the planet and uses the corruption to create a disease to wipe out humanity, which he inflicts on the people of Eos via a meteor
3) Ardyn gets involved, trying to help, but Ifrit tricks him, granting him the ability to absorb the scourge. What Ifrit doesn't tell him is that this will make him into the ultimate carrier rather than erasing the Scourge from the world
4) Ifrit tries to get into the Underworld to destroy the goddess, who he now believes is corrupting the planet. Ardyn follows behind him
5) Ardyn gets powers from the goddess before she disappears
6) Ifrit returns to Eos, fights the other Astrals, and is torn asunder on Ravatogh

Without the goddess, it'd be more like this:
1) Solheim's Magitek starts to cause damage to the planet and starts to corrupt it
2) Ifrit is enraged by the damage to the planet and uses the corruption to create a disease to wipe out humanity, which he inflicts on the people of Eos via a meteor
3) Ardyn gets involved, trying to help, but Ifrit tricks him, granting him the ability to absorb the scourge. What Ifrit doesn't tell him is that this will make him into the ultimate carrier rather than erasing the Scourge from the world
4) Ifrit fights the other Astrals, and is torn asunder on Ravatogh
 
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SonOfEtro

Keyblade Master
May 2, 2016
774
615
#22
At this point, I'm convinced that the goddess figure has been scrubbed from the game's mythos entirely, so it's unlikely that we're ever going to get any justification for the wing or in-game explanation of who the goddess figure actually is. >_>;



Thanks. ^_^

The one-winged goddess figure was specifically stated to be "the most important goddess" back in 2015, so I don't think there's any question that it was meant to be separate from the Oracle at least initially. It's clear that they mythos changed a lot, though, and it seems like they decided that having that figure represent the Oracle was better from a cost-benefit analysis perspective than trying to explain a goddess figure whose impact on the game had become minimal.

As such, I'm pretty confident now that Pitioss represents a mid-point between Versus and the current version of XV rather than a hidden part of the mythos of XV as it now stands.



Yeah, I've seen that (even if it didn't feel entirely necessary to bring up for the purposes of the video). An interesting quirk is that FFXV and the other FNC titles render "shigai" differently; the FF Wiki's FFXIII-related pages uses katakana for "shi" and kanji for "gai" while the FFXV Ultimania uses katakana throughout.



I'm reluctant to assume that the non-Ifrit Astrals are, essentially, the FFXV version of the Occuria given how much interest they seem to take in helping humanity out. The powers they offer are too overwhelming for humans to withstand for very long, but most of their known actions seemed to have been intended less to control humanity and more to offer assistance.

None of them seemed all too concerned about social, magical, or technological, either, given that Insomnia became the most advanced society in all of Eos largely because of their power. It's more plausible that they'd have been anti-Magitek, but given what Magitek is, there'd be a good reason for that. XD;

Anyway, I'm inclined to think that the missing goddess represented the planet itself, which could offer a potential explanation for Ifrit's betrayal. If Solheim's technology was actively destroying the planet (and, in the version of the mythos that included a goddess, corrupted said goddess as a result) it's plausible that that could have triggered Ifrit's wrath and pushed him to attempt to wipe out humanity with the Scourge in defiance of the other Astrals.

For what it's worth, I don't think Ifrit used a human as a host for the Starscourge, at least initially. I've heard that some of the other translations of the game (particularly the German one) state that the Scourge came on the meteor.

One way that the with-goddess version of the mythos could go is this:
1) Solheim's Magitek starts to cause damage to the planet and corrupts the goddess
2) Ifrit is enraged by the damage to the planet and uses the corruption to create a disease to wipe out humanity, which he inflicts on the people of Eos via a meteor
3) Ardyn gets involved, trying to help, but Ifrit tricks him, granting him the ability to absorb the scourge. What Ifrit doesn't tell him is that this will make him into the ultimate carrier rather than erasing the Scourge from the world
4) Ifrit tries to get into the Underworld to destroy the goddess, who he now believes is corrupting the planet. Ardyn follows behind him
5) Ardyn gets powers from the goddess before she disappears
6) Ifrit returns to Eos, fights the other Astrals, and is torn asunder on Ravatogh

Without the goddess, it'd be more like this:
1) Solheim's Magitek starts to cause damage to the planet and corrupts the goddess
2) Ifrit is enraged by the damage to the planet and uses the corruption to create a disease to wipe out humanity, which he inflicts on the people of Eos via a meteor
3) Ardyn gets involved, trying to help, but Ifrit tricks him, granting him the ability to absorb the scourge. What Ifrit doesn't tell him is that this will make him into the ultimate carrier rather than erasing the Scourge from the world
4) Ifrit fights the other Astrals, and is torn asunder on Ravatogh
Hmm... If we take the Goddess as a now-all but forgotten in-world representation of Eos itself (like Gaia was a humanoid representation of Earth in Greek mythology), that would actually fit with the Astrals being described as protectors of the world. Might also explain why the Goddess in Pitioss is wielding a sword, which would in turn connect her to the Lucis Caelum Royal Arms. And it would explain the Crystal coming from Eos itself, and the Astrals making the Ring of the Lucii as a medium for humanity to harness its power. And that's a neat concept of Magiteck being seen as a threat, that's classic FF all over.

Put like that, it sounds like a fusion between VII's Lifestream and FF series' recurring universal crystal motif, with remnants of Versus' FNC lore and the new canon created for XV thrown in. Whew, what a jumble.
 

Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
696
802
#23
Hmm... If we take the Goddess as a now-all but forgotten in-world representation of Eos itself (like Gaia was a humanoid representation of Earth in Greek mythology), that would actually fit with the Astrals being described as protectors of the world. Might also explain why the Goddess in Pitioss is wielding a sword, which would in turn connect her to the Lucis Caelum Royal Arms. And it would explain the Crystal coming from Eos itself, and the Astrals making the Ring of the Lucii as a medium for humanity to harness its power. And that's a neat concept of Magiteck being seen as a threat, that's classic FF all over.

Put like that, it sounds like a fusion between VII's Lifestream and FF series' recurring universal crystal motif, with remnants of Versus' FNC lore and the new canon created for XV thrown in. Whew, what a jumble.
The Astrals being protectors of the planet was a heavy influence on my theory. ;) But, yeah, that's largely what I was thinking.

FFXV's mythos incorporates a lot of elements from previous FF games anyway, so I think it's to be expected that it's a bit of a jumble. XD;
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,577
3,956
26
#24
so the datalog has more information about pitioss! my theory was "half-right"

while pitioss wasn't a "contest arena" it was used as a training ground, for what purpose i don't know, but i think they were trying to be stronger to fight the gods; i still think black hood was kinda of a prize for anyone that reached the end.

Ancient Solheim training grounds situated in southwestern Cleigne and shrouded in mystery. Hidden among the mountains and conspicuously missing from all conventional maps, these ruins appear to have been all but forgotten in the modern age.
Traveling the world is sure to open one's eyes to the sheer variety of climates and cultures around Eos, but the one thread tying all lands together is the presence of peculiar stone structures. The toppled towers and shattered statues seen across the continent are testaments to the artistry and ingenuity of those who came before us, and Pitioss may indeed stand as Solheim's crowning achievement. But the most incredible aspect of ancient technology is its ability to seemingly manipulate time-space as we know it.
Based on out current scientific understanding, every bend in the fabric of our universe must be counterbalanced elsewhere—our scholars suspect these ruins might be the space in which those interdimensional kinks are worked out.


which explains omega and why that dragon was inside costlemark, but what if the scourge itself came from another place through these space-time distortions?

this is one of the creatures you find inside



i would say it looks kinda otherwordly to me...

some wiki interpretation:

- Interdimensionality in Final Fantasy is commonly linked to the Void, the world of formation that links the series's multiverse.

- In the Fabula Nova Crystallis: Final Fantasy series that Final Fantasy XV started as part of, interdimensionality is associated with the juxtaposition of the mortal realm and the unseen realm, the gods' plan being to open the gate to the latter. The gate and the goddess who operated it were an influential part of the early version of the game as Final Fantasy Versus XIII, but the statues of a woman in Pitioss may be entirely unrelated.

- The Almanac describes Pitioss as "ancient Solheim training grounds." This could hearken to the arks from the Final Fantasy XIII games, built by ancient fal'Cie as training grounds for l'Cie in preparation for the opening of the gate to the beyond and the Day of Reckoning.
 
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Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,612
1,290
#25
Manipulating time space? Isn’t that one of Ardyn’s abilities?

I guess he learned that from Solheim technology’s somehow.

So Pitioss is the dumping grounds for the effects of performing time space abilities. Well, at least they’re “disposing of their trash” responsibly lol.
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,577
3,956
26
#26
Manipulating time space? Isn’t that one of Ardyn’s abilities?

I guess he learned that from Solheim technology’s somehow.

So Pitioss is the dumping grounds for the effects of performing time space abilities. Well, at least they’re “disposing of their trash” responsibly lol.
manipulating time and space in the sense of teleporting objects from one place (maybe even dimensions) to another i think

like everytime you fall in pitioss you don't really die, you are teleported back to a previous place, or when you stand in a circle you end up in another place of the dungeon.

omega also has the ability to materialize anywhere it seems.

im almost certain they'll use this to explain the tie-in for FFXIV, because one of the past messengers is supposed to be a primal in FFXIV if the datamine is correct.

what if the meteors were summoned by the folks of solheim through a vodoo teleport to defeat the gods? caius did that ;P
 
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Borzas2010

Balamb Garden Freshman
Oct 1, 2016
19
3
37
#27
That goddess must be etro, and the one who created the crystals must be bunivelze, but maybe tabata did change their name. When you approach Angelguard with the ship there is a female/male voice, to turn back... hmm "angel"guard.. goddess, there is some connection I bet. it would be pitiful move by tabata if he really changed etro to eos and he cutted out bhunivelze totally. Isnt FFXv just dream? I read a theory about that and its very good, very convincing.
 
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Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,577
3,956
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#28
That goddess must be etro, and the one who created the crystals must be bunivelze, but maybe tabata did change their name.
in FFXV, the crystal is simply the cristallized form of the soul of the world

basically Eos, the planet, is the main "god/goddess" of FFXV.
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,577
3,956
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#30
Is there any official proof of this by square enix in the main game?
its stated in the game the crystal is the soul of the star.

the star is the planet Eos (in the same way, the world of FFXIV is named after the mothercrystal Hydaelyn, and the world of FFXIII is named after Pulse)

its a bit like the lifestream i guess, the crystal is the will/conscience of the planet in a sense.
 
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Borzas2010

Balamb Garden Freshman
Oct 1, 2016
19
3
37
#31
its stated in the game the crystal is the soul of the star.

the star is the planet Eos.

its a bit like the lifestream i guess, the crystal is the will/conscience of the planet in a sense.[/QUOTE
its stated in the game the crystal is the soul of the star.

the star is the planet Eos.

its a bit like the lifestream i guess, the crystal is the will/conscience of the planet in a sense.
The question is who created the eos world it has to be a god or something, in kingsglaive movie when the party nyx and Luna talk there is the same picture of etro like in vsxiii trailer was, the question is why etro would be still important in insomnia? In episode ignis why the name who talk you just ????? And not Eos why hide?
I guess the storytelling in ffxv is real bad, even worse than xiii was. I finished the game 2 time but I didn't now anything about these things, my theory was always is the same, the whole game is just a dream by kid noctis.
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,577
3,956
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#32
The question is who created the eos world it has to be a god or something, in kingsglaive movie when the party nyx and Luna talk there is the same picture of etro like in vsxiii trailer was, the question is why etro would be still important in insomnia? In episode ignis why the name who talk you just ????? And not Eos why hide?
it think it was mentioned somewhere the gods created it? im not sure on that one.

the picture didn't represent Etro anymore, it could be the representation of Eos, like the woman statue in Pitioss. in greek mythology Eos is represented by a winged woman (Etro was a winged goddess too).

the mysterious voice is supposed to be ghost Luna
 
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Borzas2010

Balamb Garden Freshman
Oct 1, 2016
19
3
37
#33
it think it was mentioned somewhere the gods created it? im not sure on that one.

the picture didn't represent Etro anymore, it could be the representation of Eos, like the woman statue in Pitioss. in greek mythology Eos is represented by a winged woman (Etro was a winged goddess too).

the mysterious voice is supposed to be ghost Luna
Well, yeah now you say tabata did changed etro to eos, sadly
I read somewhere this IF true:
" Eos was made to replace Etro entirely. Also, I learned that the goddess that is seen in the actual Fabula Nova Crystallis logo is actually Mwynn, mother of Etro and all the other gods."

"the mysterious voice is supposed to be ghost Luna"

Again I don't understand why tabata would hide it with ???? why change the voice? and how the hell Luna would know arden backstory? what happened really back 2,000 years ago? why luna never told us what really happened?

1. Luna is more than we tought
2. or the ??? is really another god.
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,577
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#34
Well, yeah now you say tabata did changed etro to eos, sadly
i think it was the company's decision to cut the most evident ties to the Fabula Nova Crystallis, most likely because of the popularity of XIII games and because they wanted a simple story to be told.

Again I don't understand why tabata would hide it with ???? why change the voice? and how the hell Luna would know arden backstory? what happened really back 2,000 years ago? why luna never told us what really happened
its not hidden, the credits links Lunafreya VA to the mysterious voice

some of Ardyn's backstory is recorded in old lore texts but its possible she gained even more insight after turning into spirit; luna is certainly more than we thought, after dying she turns into a spirit and she does have some influence.
 
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SonOfEtro

Keyblade Master
May 2, 2016
774
615
#35
it think it was mentioned somewhere the gods created it? im not sure on that one.
That was a mistranslation.
i think it was the company's decision to cut the most evident ties to the Fabula Nova Crystallis, most likely because of the popularity of XIII games and because they wanted a simple story to be told.
It was in this interview. Tabata said that the removal of FNC elements were ultimately made for marketing reasons. And he also said it was a tough decision for the team to make (quite natural, as they'd been making efforts to preserve the FNC elements even though the terminology was removed so as not to alienate players).
 
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SonOfEtro

Keyblade Master
May 2, 2016
774
615
#36
1. Luna is more than we tought
2. or the ??? is really another god.
I'm quite sure the Mysterious Voice isn't Luna. The way she talks doesn't feel like her. But equally, I'm not sure it's the Crystal itself speaking. I'm hoping the mysterious voice will make a return.
 

SonOfEtro

Keyblade Master
May 2, 2016
774
615
#39
There's also this.
Panther Woman (World of Amano artbook).jpg
her hands are chained maybe?
No, I don't think so. I think they're just very basic bracelets. When you're up on the statue, it's clear she's not bound but rather holding onto something (I personally think it's a sword given its general shape)
 
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