Points that reveal Hiroyuki Ito (FFVI, FFIX, FFXII Director) is working on FFXVI (Ver 2.0)

Members see less ads - sign up now for free and join the community!

  • This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Infest

Returner
Sep 8, 2014
555
347
Germany
#61
It makes perfect sense. You're just not thinking squarely.

If both FFVII Remake and FFXVI are announced before FFXV releases, there will definitely be people that skip FFXV to wait for either FFVII Remake or FFXVI to release. The same happened with FFXII and FFXIII in 2006. There were some people that saw the E3 2006 trailer for FFXIII and so decided to skip FFXII when it released in October that year. FFXV has an even worse situation on its hands, as people know it used to be VersusXIII and was announced way back in 2006, before PS3 was even released.

The bottom line is simple. The more AAA Final Fantasy games that get announced before FFXV releases, the lower the sales potential for it becomes. FFXV could only get its highest sales potential when people believed it was the only AAA FF game for the foreseeable future this gen. That's no longer the case. Matter of fact, Tabata even said FFXV's success would determine if there would be more AAA FF games on PS4/ XB1. With the FFVII Remake being announced, it has proven this is no longer true. Therefore, some people can (and will) skip buying FFXV and just wait for FFVII Remake.
If anything the announcement of more Final Fantasy games for the PS4 will increase the potential sales of XV by a large amount.

More cool announcements = more people are willing to buy a PS4 = higher install base = more sales for XV. Is that really so hard to understand? lol

You really need to get rid of that bullshit "my final fantasy will destroy your final fantasy" mentality. Final Fantasy is one huge franchise where every new entry benefits from another. There's no rivalry between those games.
 

1Truth2Lies

Sphere Hunter
Jul 3, 2014
224
129
London
#62
If anything the announcement of more Final Fantasy games for the PS4 will increase the potential sales of XV by a large amount.

More cool announcements = more people are willing to buy a PS4 = higher install base = more sales for XV. Is that really so hard to understand? lol

You really need to get rid of that bullshit "my final fantasy will destroy your final fantasy" mentality. Final Fantasy is one huge franchise where every new entry benefits from another. There's no rivalry between those games.
As I said, you're not thinking squarely.

Nobody smart and on a budget would buy a PS4 for a game until that game is actually announced, as they know there will be a price drop by then. FFVII Remake will obviously launch after FFXV, so people excited exclusively for that game won't buy a PS4 when FFXV releases. Even people that already own a PS4, if they were not interested in FFXV, them being interested FFVII Remake does not mean they will now automatically be interested FFXV. Both games are very different, even if they both carry the FF name.

The bullshit mentality you claim I have is a lie. I don't think like that. Don't know where you picked that up from. Actually, I do know. It's one of the many misconceptions of me acquired by making these Ito/FFXVI threads. That being said, you are factually wrong about there being no rivalry between the FF games. Yoshinori Kitase confirmed there was rivalry back at E3 2005 (exactly ten years ago). He said that one of the reasons each mainline FF is different is because each team is competing with each other to make the best games. Therefore, FF being a huge franchise is not one where each titles benefits the next, but rather one where each title is competing with the next to be the best in the series. It's only direct sequels where your false claim applies. Your claim doesn't apply to the mainline series.
 
Last edited:

Infest

Returner
Sep 8, 2014
555
347
Germany
#63
Yeah I probably shouldn't have been so naive to think I can start a rational discussion with you. My bad!


By the way do you also read your own posts after posting them? If so....
tumblr_n2yahivMBG1syi1rqo1_500.gif
 

1Truth2Lies

Sphere Hunter
Jul 3, 2014
224
129
London
#65
Yeah I probably shouldn't have been so naive to think I can start a rational discussion with you. My bad!
Your fanboyism is preventing you from thinking squarely. Simple as that. I know this because I used to think like you do. Reading your posts is liking reading my past. Thankfully, I'm no longer a FF fanboy. I am now a FF realist.

Also, let's cut the bullshit. You never wanted to start a rational discussion with me to begin with. Your sole aim was to provoke a hostile debate. Glad you walked out of the ring (this thread) before personal attacks entered the picture.
 
#66
As I said, you're not thinking squarely.

Nobody smart and on a budget would buy a PS4 for a game until that game is actually announced, as they know there will be a price drop by then. FFVII Remake will obviously launch after FFXV, so people excited exclusively for that game won't buy a PS4 when FFXV releases. Even people that already own a PS4, if they were not interested in FFXV, them being interested FFVII Remake does not mean they will now automatically be interested FFXV. Both games are very different, even if they both carry the FF name.

The bullshit mentality you claim I have is a lie. I don't think like that. Don't know where you picked that up from. Actually, I do know. It's one of the many misconceptions of me acquired by making these Ito/FFXVI threads. That being said, you are factually wrong about there being no rivalry between the FF games. Yoshinori Kitase confirmed there was rivalry back at E3 2005 (exactly ten years ago). He said that one of the reasons each mainline FF is different is because each team is competing with each other to make the best games. Therefore, FF being a huge franchise is not one where each titles benefits the next, but rather one where each title is competing with the next to be the best in the series. It's only direct sequels where your false claim applies. Your claim doesn't apply to the mainline series.
With all due respect, Final Fantasy is a brand. The function of a brand is to foster consumer loyalty, convey information in regards to identity and quality without consumers having to perform thorough research. If we're speaking facts, then a more positive interpretation of the brand would help the products associated with it indubitably. This has to do mainly with expectations of quality and how the consumers would value such quality.

It's true that Final Fantasy games are often uniquely different, and it's true that competition exists between them. This is natural for any product that's conceivably different. However, you forget that Final Fantasy is also a rare creature when it comes to AAA JRPG. There are hardly any other JRPGs that act as substitutes to Final Fantasy within this genre. Even if you broaden the market to Western RPGs, the selection of AAA WRPGs aren't that huge. This implicates Final Fantasy into being a big name which represents quality JRPGs and sometimes even quality RPGs.

Due to the fact that a small number of AAA RPGs/JRPGs exist in the market at any one time, people would likely care less about how different each FF is, leaning more towards the brand name itself to identify a new quality RPG to enjoy in general. In the end, the RPG market is larger than a Final Fantasy market, and this is the crux of my argument here.

I'm being a realist as well, by the way. It bothered me that you ignored the meaning in which the Final Fantasy brand holds. Just don't attribute this post to me being a fanboy of some sort, as you've done with other people.
 
Last edited:

1Truth2Lies

Sphere Hunter
Jul 3, 2014
224
129
London
#67
With all due respect, Final Fantasy is a brand. The function of a brand is to foster consumer loyalty, convey information in regards to identity and quality without consumers having to perform thorough research. If we're speaking facts, then a more positive interpretation of the brand would help the products associated with it indubitably. This has to do mainly with expectations of quality and how the consumers would value such quality.

It's true that Final Fantasy games are often uniquely different, and it's true that competition exists between them. This is natural for any product that's conceivably different. However, you forget that Final Fantasy is also a rare creature when it comes to AAA JRPG. There are hardly any other JRPGs that act as substitutes to Final Fantasy within this genre. Even if you broaden the market to Western RPGs, the selection of AAA WRPGs aren't that huge. This implicates Final Fantasy into being a big name which represents quality JRPGs and sometimes even quality RPGs.

Due to the fact that a small number of AAA RPGs/JRPGs exist in the market at any one time, people would likely care less about how different each FF is, leaning more towards the brand name itself to identify a new quality RPG to enjoy. New is important. If you have an understanding of the Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility, you would know why this is so.

This is me being a realist by the way. It bothered me that you ignored the meaning in which the Final Fantasy brand holds to support your argument. Also, I do hope you don't attribute this post to me being a fanboy of some sort, as you've done with other people.
Final Fantasy is not a brand based on uniformed consistency in product improvement and evolution. Therefore, it's a brand name alone and nothing more. After FFIX, each mainline FF began to differ widely in battle system from the next. If you took away the FF brand, FFX, FFXI, FFXII, FFXIII, FFXIV, and FFXV, could each be seen as games from a totally separate series. The main thing that links them is the brand name of Final Fantasy. If each mainline FF was running concurrently in a separate sub-series, there could still be uniformity to the brand, just like how a car or phone manufacturer has different models evolving concurrently, with each getting new model updates. FF doesn't do that. Instead, each consecutive mainline FF is so different from the former that it makes the brand only a name and nothing more. This is not Monster Hunter or Pokemon, where each mainline instalment builds off the previous entry while adding new features and improvements. People have realised this, which is why some mainline FF games could get skipped or ignored if other games in the series look more interesting.

Going back to how this thread derailment all stated, @Infest suggested that FFVII Remake and FFXVI being announced before FFXV releases would improve the sales of the game. Going by mainline FF history, I know this is very unlikely. I know people that skipped FFXII due to deciding to wait for FFXIII after seeing the E3 2006 trailer. If that happened once, it will happen again, especially with a popular title like FFVII. I'm not saying FFXV will bomb in sales. I'm merely saying that the full sales potential it had when it was the only AAA Final Fantasy on PS4/XB1, has been lost. People now have options, and I can guarantee there will be some people who will now wait for FFVII Remake instead of buying FFXV. The money they were to spend on FFXV will be dropped on other high profile, AAA games during the waiting period.
 
Last edited:
#70
Final Fantasy is not a brand based on uniformed consistency in product improvement and evolution. Therefore, it's a brand name alone and nothing more. After FFIX, each mainline FF began to differ widely in battle system from the next. If you took away the FF brand, FFX, FFXI, FFXII, FFXIII, FFXIV, and FFXV, could each be seen as games from a totally separate series. The main thing that links them is the brand name of Final Fantasy. If each mainline FF was running concurrently in a separate sub-series, there could still be uniformity to the brand, just like how a car or phone manufacturer has different models evolving concurrently, with each getting new model updates. FF doesn't do that. Instead, each consecutive mainline FF is so different from the former that it makes the brand only a name and nothing more. This is not Monster Hunter or Pokemon, where each mainline instalment builds off the previous entry while adding new features and improvements. People have realised this, which is why some mainline FF games could get skipped or ignored if other games in the series look more interesting.
You know, in economics, they say that any rational choice is made based on a weighing of cost and benefit; the choice with the highest benefit being the one picked. You might not share this belief, for whatever reason, but humour me for a bit. Say it's a brand name alone and nothing more. So what does Square Enix stand to benefit from sticking with it? Linking themes of crystals, including Cid, chocobos, airships, the prelude and more in almost every iteration is tough, especially when your story and design has to fit within those boundaries. What is the point in SE limiting themselves within these seemingly trivial bits of Final Fantasy if the name is without the means to induce a purchase? A brand is not just a name, it's a relationship between the buyer and seller. At its core, this is its function.

I already explained in the second and third paragraph why the unique characteristics of each FF become secondary consideration for the consumer. There aren't enough high-budget RPGs going around to begin with nowadays. Each FF is released with large time gaps in between. A lot of JRPGs nowadays are low in quality, leaving there to be even less substitutes for the specific cultural experience in higher quality. Simply put, the lack of quality RPGs out-prioritises the choice of withholding purchase of a main title Final Fantasy game for a future one. What do consumers stand to benefit when they withhold a measly $60 purchase in return for 3-5 more years of waiting? If the marketing was done well and if they're convinced on the quality, then people are going to buy it because it's a numbered Final Fantasy, a name and trait attributed to quality titles.

Of course, what I say may not be right just as what you say may not be right, but if my understanding of theory is anything to go by, there is no reasonable way to conclude that each main FF would significantly detriment each other's sales, the time frame between each title being the most logical reason I can give you among the other few. You can't say that XII will significantly hurt X's sales, and the simple reason why is because XII will not be marketed nor sold alongside X. By the time XII should've gone into full marketing mode, X's sales would have already become negligible. Some cases are different, such as FFXIII: LR against FFX/X-2 HD. These titles released within the same time frame so people likely substituted one for the other based on preferences and their current available income.

Just so you know, I am not saying that people won't substitute FFVII Remake for FFXV. That will definitely happen; it's the nature of the world. But you don't make a gross generalisation by example of a friend not buying XII for XIII. The real question when it comes to substitution is and always is, to what degree? In the end, there is no data to support the extent in which the VII remake would hurt XV or otherwise. You don't know whether this substitution effect will outperform the benefits from bolstering the brand with the VII remake, plain and simple.

If you're saying that the brand name means nothing, that is an opinion, which I'd argue to be unrealistic as far as understanding how businesses and their marketing work. If we cannot share an understanding on at least this fact, then I'm afraid any further arguments would just end up being fruitless.

I understand that you do not want the topic to derail any further. If you have anything to say, send me a PM.
 

1Truth2Lies

Sphere Hunter
Jul 3, 2014
224
129
London
#72
I really hope so, I'd love to see him as an event director or something but what makes you think so?
There's four reasons off the top of my head.
  1. Motomu Toriyama said the game he'd most like to make after The Lightning Saga is a FFVII Remake.
  2. Toriyama also said his next project would be announced this year. That could be the FFVII Remake announcement at E3.
  3. Tetsuya Nomura has said he can't direct a AAA project by himself, as he lacks the skill to control a large team (his words, not mine). Instead, he relies on a Co-Director to help lead development. Tai Yasue is Co-Director on KHIII, while for a time, Hajime Tabata was the Co-Director on FFXV. That being the case, there's a high chance Toriyama is the Co-Director of FFVII Remake due to his experience directing FFX, FFX-2, FFXIII, FFXIII-2, LR FFXIII.
  4. Even if there's no Co-Director on the project, the game will still need an Event Director, and that role is likely to be given to Toriyama over anybody else at the company, especially with Yoshinori Kitase being the producer and Kazushige Nojima writing the scenario.
 
Likes: Sora96

Sora96

Warrior of Light
Nov 12, 2014
1,340
241
21
Australia
kh13.com
#73
There's four reasons off the top of my head.
  1. Motomu Toriyama said the game he'd most like to make after The Lightning Saga is a FFVII Remake.
  2. Toriyama also said his next project would be announced this year. That could be the FFVII Remake announcement at E3.
  3. Tetsuya Nomura has said he can't direct a AAA project by himself, as he lacks the skill to control a large team (his words, not mine). Instead, he relies on a Co-Director to help lead development. Tai Yasue is Co-Director on KHIII, while for a time, Hajime Tabata was the Co-Director on FFXV. That being the case, there's a high chance Toriyama is the Co-Director of FFVII Remake due to his experience directing FFX, FFX-2, FFXIII, FFXIII-2, LR FFXIII.
  4. Even if there's no Co-Director on the project, the game will still need an Event Director, and that role is likely to be given to Toriyama over anybody else at the company, especially with Yoshinori Kitase being the producer and Kazushige Nojima writing the scenario.
I would love this, but why wouldn't they announce it?
 

Tornak

Keyblade Master
May 18, 2014
727
425
25
Madrid, Spain
#74
That being the case, there's a high chance Toriyama is the Co-Director of FFVII Remake due to his experience directing FFX, FFX-2, FFXIII, FFXIII-2, LR FFXIII.
Pls no :(

I could see him in a "special thanks to" credit, or even an Event writer or something (especially those regarding the ones he wrote for the original), but I kind of doubt he's going to be in the project, actually.

I think he's doing another project. Hopefully not XVI, I want Ito, too (director of my favourite game of all time, IX) and think he'll be the one unless he's still the janitor at S-E headquarters.

Verendus said, iirc, that XVI wouldn't be futuristic (or modern, I don't remember) and that it'd be something we haven't seen in the series for now. I don't know what that could mean. Vikings? Prehistoric times? Sure, FF never actually only draws inspiration from a setting/period of time, but there's usually a predominant feel (or two, or three...)

My dream would be Ito directing a game with designs like this, with this sense of austerity in the main characters, those summons looking like actual demons/angels/gods...

But lol, no way. I love Nomura despite his flaws, but I hope, especially now that he's busy with VII, that there's a radically different character design for this, as I think there'll be.
 

1Truth2Lies

Sphere Hunter
Jul 3, 2014
224
129
London
#75
I would love this, but why wouldn't they announce it?
Maybe they've finally realised that Motomu Toriyama isn't that popular? More realistically, I think they just wanted to announce the three key roles on the game. They didn't even announce who the composer is.
Pls no :(

I could see him in a "special thanks to" credit, or even an Event writer or something (especially those regarding the ones he wrote for the original), but I kind of doubt he's going to be in the project, actually.

I think he's doing another project. Hopefully not XVI, I want Ito, too (director of my favourite game of all time, IX) and think he'll be the one unless he's still the janitor at S-E headquarters.
At this point, Toriyama being the Co-Director or Event Director of FFVII Remake is more likely than Ito directing FFXVI. Yeah, I said it. I told y'all I'm a FF realist. My reasoning for this belief is that FFVII Remake actually exists with staff Toriyama works closely with in pivotal and leading roles. FFXVI, on the other hand, is simply speculation based off corroborated evidence. If the points I assimilated didn't exist, Ito directing FFXVI would just be fanboy wishful thinking.

Verendus said, iirc, that XVI wouldn't be futuristic (or modern, I don't remember) and that it'd be something we haven't seen in the series for now. I don't know what that could mean. Vikings? Prehistoric times? Sure, FF never actually only draws inspiration from a setting/period of time, but there's usually a predominant feel (or two, or three...)
I don't trust Verendus. He said he was 100% sure FFXV would release in 2014 and if that didn't happen, he should have his NeoGAF account deleted. We are now in 2015 and there's no release date in sight. The guy is bogus, as far as I'm concerned.

My dream would be Ito directing a game with designs like this, with this sense of austerity in the main characters, those summons looking like actual demons/angels/gods...

But lol, no way. I love Nomura despite his flaws, but I hope, especially now that he's busy with VII, that there's a radically different character design for this, as I think there'll be.
I'm expecting FFXVI to be a Medieval FF, but in a realistic style. It will basically be FFI remade on current hardware. Something like this:


As for the character designer, I'm really hoping it's Akihiko Yoshida. I love that man's work. Nobody draws fantasy armor better.
 
Last edited:
Likes: Sora96

Sora96

Warrior of Light
Nov 12, 2014
1,340
241
21
Australia
kh13.com
#76
I would absolutely love Toriyama to be co-director on the VII Remake. It would make a lot of sense. For the reasons you listed and:

Q4. Aspirations for 2015, or a message for the readers of 4Gamer.
"I am currently working hard on the next project.
We will be able to announce it in 2015, so please look forward to that!"


4Gamer.net posted this on December 27, 2014.

Nomura says they begun development before the PS4 port's announcement. The port was announced at the start of December 2014.

He also says: “To put it simply, one of main reasons is the timing for the staff members that are developing the game, and how it worked out in our favour,”

What had changed? Lightning Returns had finished development and they couldn't have just been waiting for Kitase.

Also:

“Of all the staff that worked on the original Final Fantasy VII, and those who are working on the remake, I’m the youngest one,” Nomura explains.

There isn't that many staff left from the FFVII team. And we already know some of those staff are busy. Eg. Yusuke Naora and Hiroki Chiba.
 
Likes: 1Truth2Lies

Tornak

Keyblade Master
May 18, 2014
727
425
25
Madrid, Spain
#77
At this point, Toriyama being the Co-Director or Event Director of FFVII Remake is more likely than Ito directing FFXVI. Yeah, I said it. I told y'all I'm a FF realist. My reasoning for this belief is that FFVII Remake actually exists with staff Toriyama works closely with in pivotal and leading roles. FFXVI, on the other hand, is simply speculation based off corroborated evidence. If the points I assimilated didn't exist, Ito directing FFXVI would just be fanboy wishful thinking.
.
I mean, I could totally see it, but I would be slighty surprised (not too much, though, as he had a some input in the original). As much as I dislike him (especially as a director, at the very least), he's somewhat proven himself to be succesful when it comes to undertaking big projects as a director. I'm not talking about a AAA huge game (XIII had a very troubled development and it really shows), but I could see him directing titles the size of Nier and all that as his next endeavour.

Although yeah, there are many possibilities of him having a part in VII. I just doubt (and fear) that he'll be the co-director. I hope Nomura knows what he's doing as a director, as this should be a really ambitious projects and he's already had some problems as the sole director of Versus/XV (although of course, the actual situation at S-E during that time was really different, with XIII and XIV's mess).

I don't trust Verendus. He said he was 100% sure FFXV would release in 2014 and if that didn't happen, he should have his NeoGAF account deleted. We are now in 2015 and there's no release date in sight. The guy is bogus, as far as I'm concerned.
I don't know, I think he's a legit Sony worker or whatever. That's about one of the few things he's gotten wrong iirc. For one, he said that there was a PlayStation exclusive FF spin-off with transversal summons you could ride or something like that, and I think that's pretty clearly World of Final Fantasy. As well as many other things he's said over the years that I can't really remember right now without looking at his posts.

And of course mods, can make mistakes and all that, and in many cases are only able to verify that the "insider" (I hate the word) is actually in the position of having that information, but I usually trust GAF mods' judgement when it comes to this, and I don't think he'd still be there if he didn't have, at the very least, access to information, regardless of it being legit or not.
 

1Truth2Lies

Sphere Hunter
Jul 3, 2014
224
129
London
#78
I would absolutely love Toriyama to be co-director on the VII Remake. It would make a lot of sense. For the reasons you listed and:

Q4. Aspirations for 2015, or a message for the readers of 4Gamer.
"I am currently working hard on the next project.
We will be able to announce it in 2015, so please look forward to that!"


4Gamer.net posted this on December 27, 2014.

Nomura says they begun development before the PS4 port's announcement. The port was announced at the start of December 2014.

He also says: “To put it simply, one of main reasons is the timing for the staff members that are developing the game, and how it worked out in our favour,”

What had changed? Lightning Returns had finished development and they couldn't have just been waiting for Kitase.

Also:

“Of all the staff that worked on the original Final Fantasy VII, and those who are working on the remake, I’m the youngest one,” Nomura explains.

There isn't that many staff left from the FFVII team. And we already know some of those staff are busy. Eg. Yusuke Naora and Hiroki Chiba.
Yeah, I have strong feeling The Lightning Saga team is making this FFVII Remake, as that game was released in the West in Q1 2014, meaning they were working on FFVII Remake almost a year before that PC port announcement in December 2014. It all seems to add up, in all honesty. The game is very likely being internally developed by Business Division I. That being the case, Toriyama is definitely involved in some form or another, as he's the main director of that division.

Also, if Nomura is the youngest FFVII veteran on the development team, Toriyama is definitely on board, as he's older than Nomura. Also, this confirms that Jun Akiyama is not working on the FFVII Remake, as he's younger than Nomura. If the Event Director of FFVII Remake isn't Jun Akiyama or Hiroki Chiba, it is most likely Toriyama. That's if he isn't the Co-Director instead.

Lastly, returning the the subject of this thread, if Jun Akiyama is not working on FFVII Remake or FFXV, what is he now working on? Assuming that FFXVI is directed by Ito, Akiyama is likely now the Event Director of the game, as he had this role on FFXII.
 
Likes: Sora96

Sora96

Warrior of Light
Nov 12, 2014
1,340
241
21
Australia
kh13.com
#79
Yeah, I have strong feeling The Lightning Saga team is making this FFVII Remake, as that game was released in the West in Q1 2014, meaning they were working on FFVII Remake almost a year before that PC port announcement in December 2014. It all seems to add up, in all honesty. The game is very likely being internally developed by Business Division I. That being the case, Toriyama is definitely involved in some form or another, as he's the main director of that division.

Also, if Nomura is the youngest FFVII veteran on the development team, Toriyama is definitely on board, as he's older than Nomura. Also, this confirms that Jun Akiyama is not working on the FFVII Remake, as he's younger than Nomura. If the Event Director of FFVII Remake isn't Jun Akiyama or Hiroki Chiba, it is most likely Toriyama. That's if he isn't the Co-Director instead.

Lastly, returning the the subject of this thread, if Jun Akiyama is not working on FFVII Remake or FFXV, what is he now working on? Assuming that FFXVI is directed by Ito, Akiyama is likely now the Event Director of the game, as he had this role on FFXII.
How old is Toriyama? I can't find a record of it anywhere.

Yeah, I've figured Jun Akiyama is working on Ito's project.
 

Sora96

Warrior of Light
Nov 12, 2014
1,340
241
21
Australia
kh13.com
#80
“Our publishers take us through their slates,” he said, recalling a meeting with Square from earlier last year. “When he said ‘FFVII remake’, I said, ‘uhhh excuse me’? At first, I assumed it was the PC one, the PC one wasn’t a remake.

“They said: ‘We’re doing the full one.’

- Adam Boyes, head of third-party developer relations at PlayStation

Checks out with when Toriyama & Kitase returned to work after LR & X/X-2 HD.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.