The great Final Fantasy XVI Staff Debate: Who do you want?

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Who do you want to direct Final Fantasy XVI?

  • Yoshinori Kitase (FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII)

    Votes: 5 16.1%
  • Hiroyuki Ito (FFVI, FFIX, FFXII, FFXII IZJS)

    Votes: 24 77.4%
  • Motomu Toriyama (FFX, FFX-2, FFXII RW, FFXIII, FFXIII-2, LR FFXIII)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hajime Tabata (BC FFVII, CC FFVII, FF Type-0, FFXV)

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • Total voters
    31

Nova_Somnus

Balamb Garden Freshman
Why the writing in Dissidia 012 dismiss her possibility of pulling out a great writing? (she still has Nojima's already written script, its not like she is writing a new one from scratch).
Track records are misleading, for example:
Despite having George Lucas as director/writer the Phantom Menace didn't archive the same quality that A New Hope did (which happens to have him in both roles too)
Nojima is very hit or miss, though. Sometimes he writes great stuff, but most times he writes nonsensical garbage. It was Jun Akiyama that was my main hope for FF15 in the writing department, but he's also jumped ship. There's honestly no hope for me in this game's story at all. I fully expect it to be as bad as Dissidia 012 and Type-0 HD.

Yeah, George Lucas fell off. However, the same thing happened with Yoshinori Kitase. Homie went from directing FF7 to producing the steaming pile that is FF13 trilogy. That being said, a mainline FF in this stage of the gaming industry, should have the best of the best writing the screenplay. Not an untested writer that has only written utter garbage for one game and nothing else.

Of the games you named only The Last Remnant is a SE IP, the other are IPs from other developers that SE simply published
Actually, brah, Square Enix own those IPs, but the actual games were developed by other companies.
 

Nova_Somnus

Balamb Garden Freshman
@Nova_Somnus please answer me these: why Kitase producing FXIII = him falling off ? The quality of XIII is more a blame of the director rather than the producer.
Kitase did the game design for FF13. It was his idea to make the game so linear, as he was basing it off his game design in FF10. Toriyama just directed under Kitase's supervision. The fact Kitase was so intimately involved with project on a producer level should have ensured the game was a success, but his current incompetence proved otherwise. The man is a has been, just like George Lucas.

Also Jun Akiyama also worked on KH (which according to you has garbage writing), as well as FFXIII and the original FFXIV, so he must also fell off.
Jun Akiyama only wrote the first KH (with Nojima and Watanabe), which has the best and most coherent writing in the entire series. It's from KH CoM onwards that the plot became increasingly convoluted and nonsensical. Also, Akiyama never did any writing for FF13 or FF14, but he did do writing for FF12, which has the most mature plot so far in the FF series. Added to that, his expertise in cinematography is on par with an Academy Award-winning film director. No other cutscene director in Square Enix comes close. A great cutscene director can turn an incomplete script into a masterpiece of cinematography, as FF12 proved. FF15 will not experience that because it has lost Akiyama. All it has left is the Dissidia 012 writer to salvage it. The game is dead on arrival from a storytelling standpoint.
 

Lulcielid

Warrior of Light
Still track records do not set things on stone.
According to your logic of track records, Kitase producing FFXIII should have made the game good because of what he did with FFVI,VII back then but it did not happen. If this could happen to Kitase then it stands to reason that this can also happen to Ito and Jun Akiyama, as well as the reverse can happen with Saori Itamuro.
 

Nova_Somnus

Balamb Garden Freshman
Still track records do not set things on stone.
According to your logic of track records, Kitase producing FFXIII should have made the game good because of what he did with FFVI,VII back then but it did not happen. If this could happen to Kitase then it stands to reason that this can also happen to Ito and Jun Akiyama, as well as the reverse can happen with Saori Itamuro.
Well, for me personally, Kitase's track record has been garbage since FF8. The last good FF he worked on was FF7, so I was prepared for FF13 ending up being a steaming pile of shit. The same is now happening with Tabata. His work on Type-0 was horrendous and a true clusterfuck of bad game design and bad writing. This is the man directing FF15? Welp. I now know not to expect much from the game. I fully expect the game to be just as bad or even worse than FF13 was, especially with the Dissidia 012 writer penning the screenplay.

Ito and Akiyama are different because in their respective fields (game director and cutscene director), they've yet to fail and their recent works are fantastic. The last game Ito directed was FF12, a modern masterpiece in JRPG game design that Xenoblade used as a blueprint to go on and become the best console JRPG last-gen. The last cutscene Akiyama directed was the Ul'dah intro for FFXIV 1.0, which is hands down better than any cutscene to appear in a FF game since FF12. No cutscene in the entire FF13 trilogy touches it. Even FF14 ARR doesn't have a cutscene as well directed and with such ornate cinematography. If Jun Akiyama was a film director, his films would have won Oscars by now.

Here's the FF14 1.0 Ul'dah intro, if you don't know what I'm talking about:
 
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Nova_Somnus

Balamb Garden Freshman
Even they still have to fail in their respective roles, my argument still holds true.
No it doesn't. My point was that Ito and Akiyama have yet to fail.

Kitase, Tabata, and Itamuro have all failed in the past in their respective fields (producing, directing, and writing), so expecting good from them in future in those same fields is leaning more on wishful thinking. Ito and Akiyama have yet to fail in their respective fields of directing and cutscene directing. Therefore, expecting great things from those two in future is more a calculated belief rather than blind, wishful thinking.
 

Lulcielid

Warrior of Light
No it doesn't. My point was that Ito and Akiyama have yet to fail.

Kitase, Tabata, and Itamuro have all failed in the past in their respective fields (producing, directing, and writing), so expecting good from them in future in those same fields is leaning more on wishful thinking. Ito and Akiyama have yet to fail in their respective fields of directing and cutscene directing. Therefore, expecting great things from those two in future is more a calculated belief rather than blind, wishful thinking.
Naoki Yoshida disagrees with what you said.
 

Nova_Somnus

Balamb Garden Freshman
Naoki Yoshida disagrees with what you said.
Nah, brah, it actually supports it. Naoki Yoshida was the game designer of Dragon Quest X, which was very successful with no major faults when it launched. He also had no bad track record before taking over FF14. On the contrary, the reason he was put on the game is because Yoichi Wada said he had the most in-depth knowledge of the MMO genre at Square Enix. He was the best guy they had for the job. The case with Kitase, Tabata, and Itamuro is completely different.
 

Lulcielid

Warrior of Light
Nah, brah, it actually supports it. Naoki Yoshida was the game designer of Dragon Quest X, which was very successful with no major faults when it launched. He also had no bad track record before taking over FF14. On the contrary, the reason he was put on the game is because Yoichi Wada said he had the most in-depth knowledge of the MMO genre at Square Enix. He was the best guy they had for the job. The case with Kitase, Tabata, and Itamuro is completely different.
But FFXIV 1.0 still failed despite that.
 

Nova_Somnus

Balamb Garden Freshman
Naoki Yoshida: "FF15 won't be enough to restore FF to greatness. Wait for FF16."

Damn, brah! Stone cold words. As if my pessimism over FF15 and its lacklustre director couldn't sink any lower, Naoki Yoshida comes out and says this? I'm glad that I've not had much riding on the game since Tabata took over. Even Yoshida knows that FF15 is not the game to save the FF series.

“I think we still have a long way to go. The Final Fantasy that I know was even better,” he says. “Final Fantasy XIV is not a standalone Final Fantasy title; it’s an MMO. Unfortunately some fans will remain on the fence about it because it’s online, so we can’t reach all of them.

“Of course, with XV coming out as a standalone title, that’s very important. But it’s not only XV - we need to be able to do more and bring back that impact that Final Fantasy gave us when we ourselves played it for the first time. That shock – the good kind of shock – and try to bring that back. Maybe we won’t do that before Final Fantasy XVI. Maybe it’ll be even further in the future. But I still feel we need to continue to strive to improve... There’s a long road ahead."
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/06/05/meet-the-man-who-redeemed-final-fantasy?page=2

If any random person said this about FF15, they'd be laughed at and told that FF15 is the most ambitious FF of all time and Square Enix have a lot riding on it. Yet, this is Yoshi-P is saying this. The man that revived FF14 into one of the best MMOs released since WoW. Not to forget that he's also on the FF Committee and a Corporate Executive at Square Enix Japan. If he says shit like this then you have got to take his words seriously.

By the sounds of it, FF16 is already in development and it's that game being designed to restore mainline FF to greatness, not Tabata's FF15. Seems that FF15 is only being used as a filler in the interim, which makes sense why Square Enix management put such a lacklustre director and the inexperienced Type-0 team on it. Now, more than ever before, I'm starting to believe Jun Akiyama has been moved to FF16. If that game is their true trump card, they'll want to have their best cutscene director working on it. As for who'll be directing the game, you already know my answer to that question.
 
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LeonBlade

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But it’s not only XV - we need to be able to do more and bring back that impact that Final Fantasy gave us when we ourselves played it for the first time.
Meaning, in addition to XV.

Maybe we won’t do that before Final Fantasy XVI. Maybe it’ll be even further in the future. But I still feel we need to continue to strive to improve... There’s a long road ahead.
You're reading this as if he's praising XVI or something when he clearly isn't. He's simply saying that FF has a long way to go to get back to it's glory days, and one or even two games isn't going to fix that.

Everything else you said falls in line with this I don't even want to spend the time going over it.
 
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Sora96

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Kitase did the game design for FF13. It was his idea to make the game so linear, as he was basing it off his game design in FF10. Toriyama just directed under Kitase's supervision.
This is correct. Kitase is also the head of division 1, and Tabata said it himself as division 2's head if a project fails it's the division head's responsibility.
 

Nova_Somnus

Balamb Garden Freshman
This is correct. Kitase is also the head of division 1, and Tabata said it himself as division 2's head if a project fails it's the division head's responsibility.
Precisely. Some FF fans just don't want to direct blame at Kitase because he directed FF7. Well, guess what? George Lucas directed Star Wars IV, but he still went on to make the utter garbage that was Star Wars I-III.

Thankfully, the amount of Kitase haters has been growing since the FF13 trilogy ended. It's good to see he's finally getting what he deserves. Hopefully, that will show him that he's not immune to fanbase criticism and Toriyama's not his meat shield.
 
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Sora96

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Precisely. Some FF fans just don't want to direct blame at Kitase because he directed FF7. Well, guess what? George Lucas directed Star Wars IV-VI, but he still went on to make the utter garbage that was Star Wars I-III.

Thankfully, the amount of Kitase haters has been growing since the FF13 trilogy ended. It's good to see he's finally getting what h deserves. Hopefully, that will show him that he's not immune to fanbase backlash and Toriyama's not his meat shield.
Lucas didn't direct episodes V and VI.
 

Nova_Somnus

Balamb Garden Freshman
Lucas didn't direct episodes V and VI.
Yeah, I know. I've edited my post.

Getting back to Kitase, there's people that claim that Toriyama never directed FF10, and it was instead directed by Kitase. They created this false belief just because they don't want to believe Toriyama directed one of their fave FF games. The belief is wrong, though. Kitase was originally the director of FF10, but he eventually stepped up to producer and Toriyama became one of three directors instead. The exact same thing happened during development of FF6. Sakaguchi was originally the director, but he stepped up to producer and Ito and Kitase became the directors instead.

It's completely ridiculous that people don't give Toriyama credit for directing FF10, especially when Square Enix themselves do, and even mention he was the director in the credits of the game. If more people accepted that Toriyama directed FF10 and not Kitase, Toriyama would be less hated than he currently is. After all, nobody would want to outright hate the director of one of their favourite games of all time.
 

Sora96

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Yeah, I know. I've edited my post.

Getting back to Kitase, there's people that claim that Toriyama never directed FF10, and it was instead directed by Kitase. They created this false belief just because they don't want to believe Toriyama directed one of their fave FF games. The belief is wrong, though. Kitase was originally the director of FF10, but he eventually stepped up to producer and Toriyama became one of three directors instead. The exact same thing happened during development of FF6. Sakaguchi was originally the director, but he stepped up to producer and Ito and Kitase became the directors instead.

It's completely ridiculous that people don't give Toriyama credit for directing FF10, especially when Square Enix themselves do, and even mention he was the director in the credits of the game. If more people accepted that Toriyama directed FF10 and not Kitase, Toriyama would be less hated than he currently is. After all, nobody would want to outright hate the director of one of their favourite games of all time.
Completely correct, it annoys me too. I thought Ito was already a director on VI though.
 

Nova_Somnus

Balamb Garden Freshman
Completely correct, it annoys me too. I thought Ito was already a director on VI though.
Nah, brah. Sakaguchi was director. Kitase was event director and Ito was game design director. When Sakaguchi became producer, he put both Kitase and Ito in his place as director, but they still had their same roles of event director and game design director. Here's a quote from Kitase on the matter:

1UP: But you did work on FFV, the first one you were really involved in. Can you talk a bit about your work and objectives with the game?

YK: With FFV, I was involved in creating what would be referred to as cutscenes -- we referred to them as event scenes -- and also the scenario text. Up until then, one person had always been responsible for this aspect of the games, but with FFV the amount of work involved in the storytelling and scenario really grew exponentially, so it was too much for one person to handle alone. So, I worked with Sakaguchi to take this task upon ourselves.

1UP: FFV was much funnier than previous games, with a lot of comedy elements in the cutscenes. Was that your doing?

YK: Sakaguchi was in charge of the overall plot, and because FFV was a relatively serious story, I wanted to be sure to inject spots with a little bit of comic relief and humor.

1UP: From there, you took a much bigger role with FFVI. Can you talk about what you wanted to accomplish with this game?

YK: With FFVI, my role was similar to what it had been with FFV, except that the volume of the game grew once again exponentially. So the team of people working on the event scenes and scenario side grew to about four or five. And, of course, Sakaguchi was the director and had primary control overseeing those aspects of the game as well. But he'd also become very busy at that time after becoming vice-president of the company and had a lot of other projects going on. He couldn't put 100% into FFVI, so I took charge of more of those event scenes.
http://www.1up.com/features/final-fantasy-kitase-story?pager.offset=1

If people want to claim Toriyama never directed FF10, then Kitase never directed FF6.
 
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APZonerunner

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Sakaguchi was never the director on FF6. He didn't direct anything after being promoted to Executive Vice President, which happened a year before, because that promotion meant he no longer had time. He heavily supervised Ito and Kitase's work, however, but he was never, ever director on FF6 for even a day of its development. He was also far more interested in Chrono Trigger, which was in development simultaneously, and spent a lot more time on that than FF6.

The was never any 'stepping up' to producer. When the FF6 project entered full production - with only characters and a plot framework in place (done in the tail end of FF5 production) - Sakaguchi made the decision right away that he wouldn't have the time to Direct thanks to his promotion to Executive Vice President eight months earlier. All this is in the Ultimania and is readily available if you can read Japanese.

He was involved at a top level but only in the same way that, say, Nomura has been involved with all the FF7 compilation efforts like Dirge, signing off on things, providing plot direction pointers, etcetera.

This thread is a bit of a bust (as, sadly, is 1Truth's long-lasting speculation) as I'm of the belief now that it's going to be somebody not on this list Directing FF16 when it comes around.