Consumer brawn over logic.

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Feb 2, 2017
416
365
@Hey Everyone It is such a shame that you support toxic behavior on the internet. Truth be told, I seen a few posts of people that wanted Tabata to literally get on his hands and knees and beg for forgiveness when they found out about the 2 month delay. There are literally some people out there that will send death threats to developers for various reasons. Games coming out that have had issues technical side isn't a recent thing. That's been going on for decades. The difference now is that it can be exposed on the internet where that information is more accessible instead of relying on gaming magazines in the past that I am sure a good number of people didn't keep up with.

In regards to the DLC they are making the gameplay revolve around each of the characters. Since it wasn't going to be focused on until the release of the game, I don't deem it to be cut content. If you know there's a time limit on something, it isn't smart to add even more to the plate when it isn't realistic to pull off in the time frame.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
@Hey Everyone It is such a shame that you support toxic behavior on the internet. Truth be told, I seen a few posts of people that wanted Tabata to literally get on his hands and knees and beg for forgiveness when they found out about the 2 month delay. There are literally some people out there that will send death threats to developers for various reasons. Games coming out that have had issues technical side isn't a recent thing. That's been going on for decades. The difference now is that it can be exposed on the internet where that information is more accessible instead of relying on gaming magazines in the past that I am sure a good number of people didn't keep up with.

In regards to the DLC they are making the gameplay revolve around each of the characters. Since it wasn't going to be focused on until the release of the game, I don't deem it to be cut content. If you know there's a time limit on something, it isn't smart to add even more to the plate when it isn't realistic to pull off in the time frame.
Obviously I don't want Tabata begging oh no, FFXV wasn't that mans fault oh no, no I blame Square should've let him make his own FFXV or mainline not force him to work under pre-existing conditions. Meh the toxic behavior on the internet, it's the internet gonna see shit like that all the time. For the time i've been here though, never seen people want Tabata's head, or cuss each other out. However death threats are pretty bad, I mean the man's gotta family, if they going to direct hate then direct it at the management
 
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Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
698
806
Well if the risks hurt the games quality then I don't mind playing it safe once in a while, don't need to reinvent the wheel each time, if you don't know what you doing.
The problem is that "once in a while" is already 99% of the time.

There are already plenty of nice, safe wheels out there, and without attempts at reinvention, stagnation is inevitable.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
The problem is that "once in a while" is already 99% of the time.

There are already plenty of nice, safe wheels out there, and without attempts at reinvention, stagnation is inevitable.
Well innovation isn't an excuse for a lack of quality, if you want to innovate fine, but be good first, innovate second. I'd rather have a stagnation of great titles that live to the fullest of their potential, than trying to innovate, but failing to offer a good experience (ie. The Leviathan fight) Innovation should add not detract.There is a reason why some innovations stick and some don't, the ones that stick are good innovations the ones that don't are bad innovations.
 
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Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
@Hey Everyone It is such a shame that you support toxic behavior on the internet. Truth be told, I seen a few posts of people that wanted Tabata to literally get on his hands and knees and beg for forgiveness when they found out about the 2 month delay. There are literally some people out there that will send death threats to developers for various reasons. Games coming out that have had issues technical side isn't a recent thing. That's been going on for decades. The difference now is that it can be exposed on the internet where that information is more accessible instead of relying on gaming magazines in the past that I am sure a good number of people didn't keep up with.

In regards to the DLC they are making the gameplay revolve around each of the characters. Since it wasn't going to be focused on until the release of the game, I don't deem it to be cut content. If you know there's a time limit on something, it isn't smart to add even more to the plate when it isn't realistic to pull off in the time frame.
Then maybe they should have written around those deadlines a lot better, because the Prompto thing isn't excusable, if they aren't going to set up anything about Prompto being an MT or from Niflheim in any part of the game then don't be suprised if people don't care especially if the main cast brush it off, why couldn't he just talk about Verstael being his father or better yet set it up somewhere in the beginning to give it more emotional impact, that was clearly lacking in that scene. It was more of a wow moment, didn't expect that, than the emotional moment they were clearly driving for.

The Leviathan fight is also inexcusable, if they couldn't make it like the E3 2013 Trailer fine, then why couldn't they just simply have Noctis in regular fight Leviathan until she reaches to the very last bits of her HP, then have the cutscene that takes place in that fight, then have the thing just be a QTE at the very end like God of War. Like have Noct warp strike to it have him attack it, then give Leviathan have water spores where if Noct is on her body for too long, he gets ejected and takes a huge amount of damage, have the Leviathan water clones act as enemies like Floatsem and Jetsem in Kingdom Hearts 1, have the tornadoes be moving and able to attack by running into you. Have Thundaga be a weakness for Leviathan, but the water will become electrified so if you fall in, instant death. This would have made the boss fight much more engaging and less like a boring L1 + O battle, and it would have fit within the confines of their time limits.

Also yes the technical issues yes they have happened since the dawn of gaming but you want to know the difference between then and now? Back then there were no such thing as patches, so there was much more of an incentive for developers to Q and A test, because if a game like Assassin's Creed Unity came out on the PS2 era, the game would be bugged for life, and would need to get re-released in order for them to make up sales, and in the end they could actually lose money, as opposed to if they got proper Q and A testing, shipped the game and have it sell because it's a great game. Nowadays day 1 patches are a thing, so there is less of an incentive for AAA developers to make sure the game is working properly day one, and sadly it seems that gamers buy into this practice under the promise that oh it'll get patched later.
 
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Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,667
4,152
26
Well innovation isn't an excuse for a lack of quality, if you want to innovate fine, but be good first, innovate second. I'd rather have a stagnation of great titles that live to the fullest of their potential, than trying to innovate, but failing to offer a good experience (ie. The Leviathan fight) Innovation should add not detract.There is a reason why some innovations stick and some don't, the ones that stick are good innovations the ones that don't are bad innovations.
you need to experiment first to be good, especially when it comes to ambitious segments like the leviathan fight and especially when you do something for the first time.

and well they did half the job by making a visual feast of a series that in the beginning had stale action, they just began the shift of making action segments that were presented exclusively in cutscenes to be playable; that will lead to exciting results in the future, i hope.
 
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Feb 2, 2017
416
365
Then maybe they should have written around those deadlines a lot better,

The Leviathan fight is also inexcusable.......

Nowadays day 1 patches are a thing, so there is less of an incentive for AAA developers to make sure the game is working properly day one, and sadly it seems that gamers buy into this practice under the promise that oh it'll get patched later.
1. Meeting deadlines is something you should direct at Nomura more than Tabata and Business Division 2 at this point.

2. For you, the fight is inexcusable. Better efforts will be made in the future and experience will play a role in that. I am not at all disappointed with the end effort because there are still things done right.

3. Yes, sometimes day 1 patches are a thing and part of that reason is from bugs coming up at the last minute that testing doesn't always reveal prior. Bigger game = Bigger chance to miss out on something. AAA developers work for a AAA company (often if not always), and the reality is the company can force a product out even if the developers make it clear it isn't ready.
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,512
2,018
I honestly never had much of a problem with the current Leviathan fight we have overall (well outside of how a bit confused i was during the first phase but thats just me). Legit.

Its obvious that the fight was designed to be more of a setpiece than an intimidating boss fight. Was it flawless or challenging? No, but it did its job of being a damn fine real-time spectacle on its large scale while progressing the plot in the end (Super Noct was one hell of a highlight for me).

I'm with Storm on them keeping their ambition while improving on what did & didn't work, no reason at all to just call it quits when there are many ways to improve the foundation.
 

Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
698
806
you need to experiment first to be good, especially when it comes to ambitious segments like the leviathan fight and especially when you do something for the first time.
Exactly.

And it's worth pointing out that innovations that are objectively flawed in what seems like indefensible ways can sometimes be more effective at connecting with an audience than high quality stagnation. Just look at the Wii -- it looked like a last-gen system at release, used motion control technology which could recognize large gestures most of the time but not much more, and couldn't even be used to play dual-analog games without additional controllers, but it sold like hotcakes because it was something new that connected with an audience.

Would the video game industry have been better off without the Wii? Not really. The motion control arms race that Nintendo kicked off was, at the very least, useful in ensuring that there was a base level of consumer-ready tech to work from for VR. And that's why experimentation is important -- if you refuse to show anything new until you're sure the end result will be "good," it's going to take a much, much longer period of time to make anything that's ready for prime-time. =P
 
Likes: Storm

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,667
4,152
26
Then maybe they should have written around those deadlines a lot better,

The Leviathan fight is also inexcusable.......

Nowadays day 1 patches are a thing, so there is less of an incentive for AAA developers to make sure the game is working properly day one, and sadly it seems that gamers buy into this practice under the promise that oh it'll get patched later.
1. Meeting deadlines is something you should direct at Nomura more than Tabata and Business Division 2 at this point.
lmao rekt
 
Nov 8, 2014
65
28
26
Tabata did take real time immersion to heart. This is the closet JRPG we have to what Mass Effect, Witcher, Dragon Age, Fable, and Fall Out Deus Ex are to WRPGs. Did he reach the same playing field? No but he at least tried to raise FF at new heights. So when a new SE JRPG comes along they can build upon it.