Consumer brawn over logic.

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Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
697
805
#81
Oh I agree it's needed, but it should be good, if not great there has to be a need for it, and also things being different is fine, as long as a quality product comes out of release then it's good for gaming in general. In fact this just shows a lack of confidence if they needed to show the game early just to even make it in the first place.
Well, it's a good thing that both FFXV and TLG are quality products, then. =P

And, no, neither of those projects were shown early because of a lack of confidence. They were shown early because the people making the games thought that the ideas behind them would be compelling and wanted to show them to the games' intended customers. It's not like the long delays could have been predicted at the time; it's just lucky that the ideas were already out there so they couldn't be buried under a rug in favor of something safer.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,616
1,293
#82
They were shown early because the people making the games thought that the ideas behind them would be compelling and wanted to show them to the games' intended customers. It's not like the long delays could have been predicted at the time.
Pretty much what I've been trying to say, thank you.

If this point doesn't get across now, it never will I'm afraid.
 
Likes: Nova

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
#83
Well, it's a good thing that both FFXV and TLG are quality products, then. =P

And, no, neither of those projects were shown early because of a lack of confidence. They were shown early because the people making the games thought that the ideas behind them would be compelling and wanted to show them to the games' intended customers. It's not like the long delays could have been predicted at the time; it's just lucky that the ideas were already out there so they couldn't be buried under a rug in favor of something safer.
It's fine if dev time can't be predicted, they happen all the time, but as I've said earlier wait till it can be shipped, and has a solid foundation, and realistically finished within a set internal time-frame, Internal deadlines exist that's fine, but don't show to the public until you can ship the thing in a reasonable time-frame to announcement. 1 year at most, also as a whole FFXV is a quality product, but Chapter 13 to most people was pure garbage, which is why they are changing it. It's fine to show them off to their consumers, but show them off when they are concrete and near completion and can ship within a reasonable timeframe to announcements, that's all.

Also a lot of my complaints aren't gameplay related they are story related.
 
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Rin

Reformed
Apr 11, 2015
332
330
#84
Indeed it was. Sane, rational fans have no trouble admitting to that from what I've observed. We're mostly interested in how SE handles the story patches from here on out.
Yeah I've heard about problems with plot pacing in this game.
 
Nov 24, 2016
52
40
34
#86
actually know no the 1 in my ranking is akin to a racer win first place. it's not the bottom score it's the top score / the top rank . Rank 6 i is actually the lowest score / lowest rank .
 

llazy77

Warrior of Light
May 27, 2014
1,150
523
23
#87
I´d like to know how storytelling issues = Rushed? Cause I doub that the game having extra 12 months (throwing random number) would have change the fact that it was been maded by flawed human beings/designers.
They cut tons of cutscenes that were supposed to be in the game im sure, we hardly see anything of Ravus, Idoleas, Verstal in the game, and Cor and Iris in the second half. Like what we only see of Verstal and Ideolas is in one scene I highly doubt that was intended. Characters like Luna, Regis and Noctis had scenes shown in the promotional trailers that werent in the game, like the scene where she is pushed to the floor by a soilder. Also the scene with Regis crying holding Noctis is cut.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
#88
I´d like to know how storytelling issues = Rushed? Cause I doub that the game having extra 12 months (throwing random number) would have change the fact that it was been maded by flawed human beings/designers.
You know that makes things worse for Square Enix right? Rushed ok understandable, then I guess maybe with FFXVI they can get the storytelling right this time?, but flawed to the point where the storytelling is in this state? on purpose? Incompetence
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
#89
They cut tons of cutscenes that were supposed to be in the game im sure, we hardly see anything of Ravus, Idoleas, Verstal in the game, and Cor and Iris in the second half. Like what we only see of Verstal and Ideolas is in one scene I highly doubt that was intended. Characters like Luna, Regis and Noctis had scenes shown in the promotional trailers that werent in the game, like the scene where she is pushed to the floor by a soilder. Also the scene with Regis crying holding Noctis is cut.
Yeah looking at the E3 2013 Trailer Verstal seemed to have a much more important role, Cor's scenes what happened to them, they were even some of the Tabata FFXV trailers, in fact I remember there being a scene where Cor asked Noctis if he wanted to here the truth, and Noct said why not that Scene was still in the trailers even when Nomura was taken off the project

WHAT HAPPENED)
HAPPENED)
 
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Likes: llazy77

Lulcielid

Warrior of Light
#90
Yeah looking at the E3 2013 Trailer Verstal seemed to have a much more important role, Cor's scenes what happened to them, they were even some of the Tabata FFXV trailers, in fact I remember there being a scene where Cor asked Noctis if he wanted to here the truth, and Noct said why not that Scene was still in the trailers even when Nomura was taken off the project.
The problem right here.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
#91
The problem right here.
Look at my other post

This isn't ABOUT Verstael anymore this is stuff is with Cor so what happened?, Hell even the Verstael scene was still there.

Hell even stuff that was in the Uncovered trailer got the axe Regis holding Young Noctis WTF? Why wasn't that in the game? Why the hell were most of the Luna scenes cut.
Also how come stuff from the timeskip are in the trailers like Ifrit's blast, except instead of it being for the time skip they used the young party.
 
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Likes: llazy77

Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
697
805
#92
It's fine if dev time can't be predicted, they happen all the time, but as I've said earlier wait till it can be shipped, and has a solid foundation, and realistically finished within a set internal time-frame, Internal deadlines exist that's fine, but don't show to the public until you can ship the thing in a reasonable time-frame to announcement. 1 year at most, also as a whole FFXV is a quality product, but Chapter 13 to most people was pure garbage, which is why they are changing it. It's fine to show them off to their consumers, but show them off when they are concrete and near completion and can ship within a reasonable timeframe to announcements, that's all.


Also a lot of my complaints aren't gameplay related they are story related.

But that just goes back to what I said before about preferring to hear about things early so they're less likely to be cancelled silently, though.

Some of the coolest ideas could take too long for a publisher to be willing to realize without an audience's proven interest. And if I have to choose between a ten year wait and never having heard of a cool idea in the first, place, I'll choose the former every time.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
#93
But that just goes back to what I said before about preferring to hear about things early so they're less likely to be cancelled silently, though.

Some of the coolest ideas could take too long for a publisher to be willing to realize without an audience's proven interest. And if I have to choose between a ten year wait and never having heard of a cool idea in the first, place, I'll choose the former every time.
I'd rather have the thing be cancelled, and them turn out a much greater game with a more consistent and coherent vision and story , as opposed a game that's great for 1 half and a rushed second. If it means not getting shit like this
https://clips.twitch.tv/excessiveprofanity/BrightSalmonTF2John
Like Chapter 13
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,616
1,293
#94
That player in the Twitch stream is such a child. One of the most stupid reactions I've ever seen.

Honestly what is wrong with gamers these days? Complaining, whining, bitching, rinse and repeat a thousand times whilst being demanding and petulant at the same time.

How embarrassing...
 
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Likes: Nova

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
#95
That player in the Twitch stream is such a child. One of the most stupid reactions I've ever seen.

Honestly what is wrong with gamers these days? Complaining, whining, bitching, rinse and repeat a thousand times whilst being demanding and petulant at the same time. It's very easy to complain about something until you try to do it yourself. Only then will people fully understand that things aren't as simple as they seem.

How embarrassing...
No we complain because we've seen better look at NIOH, look at Square's past games like Kingdom Hearts 1, or Kingdom Hearts 2, look at Crisis Core at Hajime Tabata and probably my favorite out of them and my favorite of his games, and one of my favorite if not second favorite PSP title of all time, if not one of my favorite games of all time. We know it's not simple, but we've seen better, so they should do better.
That Leviathan fight was inexcusable, not because it's not like the E3 2013 trailer no it's because it's terrible, and we've seen so much better come out of Square on lesser hardware.

Gamers aren't children it's just that games today are starting to become more marketing fluff instead of gameplay(Not talking about FFXV BTW even though it's partially guilty), look at Assassin's Creed what the hell that became(Unity was a mess), Last Guardian was a disappointment, we've seen better the whole why don't you try to do it doesn't fly when we've seen better. A Gamer spends their hard earned 60 bucks on a game, they should expect it to be working on release, and satisfying on release flaws fine, but stuff like Leviathan?, Unity? no that's not simply something I'd turn a blind eye to, and I'm someone that was open and still is open about the changes to Versus XIII to XV apart from a few.
 
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Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,616
1,293
#96
Taking the game's flaws out of the picture for a second here... I think it's important for some posters to actually step back, and take a closer look at how they're behaving.

That is embarrassing, not to do with the game itself.

The behaviour itself, is an issue that I'm seeing with gamers these days.

There's a difference between being dissappinted and voicing it in a way that even the opposition can understand and empathise with because it makes sense, and just repeating oneself endlessly, complaining and reacting like a child.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
#97
Taking the game's flaws out of the picture for a second here... I think it's important for some posters to actually step back, and take a closer look at how they're behaving.

That is embarrassing, not to do with the game itself.

The behaviour itself, is an issue that I'm seeing with gamers these days.

There's a difference between being dissappinted and voicing it in a way that even the opposition can understand and empathise with because it makes sense, and just repeating oneself endlessly and complaining.
Gamers would probably be less cynical, and more willing to give things a try if the AAA companies(not talking about Square) actually earned it because so far, with the level of BS(Pre-Order Pyramid Scheme, On-Disc DLC, Rushed, Unfinished, Glitchy and buggy messes that have day 1 patches, and Day ONE DLC) Yeah this is not something that came out of no where, and this doesn't even speak about games quality. The Behavior is caused by this, and it seems to be that people are starting to become tired of it which results in this.

I mean my god if FFXV's story was not lacking overall then maybe people would be more kinder to DLC, I mean Prompto's MT moment should have been removed from the game entirely it almost had no weight to it and could have easily been dropped from the game entirely, and the only thing that can give it weight is the Prompto DLC. Gladio's DLC will have Cor as a major character in it, should have been in the main game, because Cor is practically forgotten about, he leaves and he isn't fleshed out as much as he could be, and should be. Ignis' DLC would have probably made the stories narrative a lot better if that had been included in the base game would probably give more weight to him becoming blind if they actually showed it.

I my opinion if they are going to make DLC about the characters, make DLC for them in places that don't leave obvious holes in the narrative then which they aren't going to fix with cutscenes or else how the hell are they going to sell the DLC then. like the Dark World we wouldn't need to be shown what was happening during the 10 year timeskip, so it would have easily felt like a bonus, but first show them taking the crystal, and waiting for Noctis to return, Ignis by overcoming his blindness, and studying the Starscourge, Prompto and Gladio by training
 
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Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,616
1,293
#98
How someone behaves and reacts towards something is their own responsibility. If you embarrass yourself because of your behavior, that's all on you, so own up to it and don't blame someone or something else.

I have my own disappointments regarding the game. I've voiced them too. But I don't dramatize it like a theater actor.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
#99
How someone behaves and reacts towards something is their own responsibility. If you embarrass yourself because of your behavior, that's all on you, so own up to it and don't blame someone or something else.

I have my own disappointments regarding the game. I've voiced them too. But I don't dramatize it like a theater actor.
Most of the people that dramatize it aren't that big of a problem, I mean they haven't attacked anyone in particular unless while I was away llazy called someone a bitch, but me when I do it, it hurt deep, and I was actually being serious when I said if FFXVI or the FF7 Remake is the same way as FFXV, I'm done with this franchise, and Square probably, I would have lost all faith in them in learning from there mistakes, and so far I haven't seen any reason to trust them that FF7 Remake announcement and Nomura not knowing he was the director? Just reeks of incompetence
 

Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
697
805