Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

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Bazztek

Knight of Death
May 26, 2014
491
1,171
I wouldn't say it's been proven. The head of localization explained why the term Astral was chosen as the final name for FFXV's summons, but that doesn't necessarily mean that that was the only name ever considered.
He literally says it is the name chosen aka it is the name they decided when localizing the game with the explicit reasoning that they wanted to use terms that the layman would already be familiar with, which is why it was Astral, the localization started in 2014, mentions of Astral are found in the datamine, not a single mention of Eidolon is in any data for the game, the localization includes the fact that the Oracls, the Astrals being the gods, the Messengers, the Chosen King etc, were all already in place when the localization started, the game backs up this fact, the datamine backs up this fact and the localization heads stating the reasoning for why they chose those terms backs up that fact. You have no proof for anything.

"When there was the term 'Archaeon,' but no 'Astral' yet" is a rather ambiguous phrase
I already addressed this, and again Astral was already mentioned in the demo, what he is referring to is that Astral had not been directly shown to be what the summons were called which is why people assumed Archaean was the term, that only backs up my point and proves you wrong even more. Because Titan is stated to be the Archaean Titan so people assumed that Archaean was the term for summon, but in the same demo it also states after Noctis obtains Ramuh that Noctis has obtained an Astral Power, Astral was a term already used there to directly used in reference to one of the summons, but it wasn't as clear cut as saying Astral was the term for Summon because it was simply not directly stated yet, not that it wasn't already in place. It was already in place since they started the localization and his reasoning for why that term even exists in the first place was already given, and so was his reasoning for why terms like Archaean and Landforger were used too, the term Stormsender is also mentioned in Ep Duscae to refer to Ramuh, meaning that what the localization head talked about with the terms of Astral being the summons, the Oracle, the Messengers, the use of kennings was also added too, and he specifically states that those were established as the basic ground rules for the lore.

They focused on the layman’s understanding of lore, and used words that could be easily digested, like Gods, Demons, Messengers, Oracles and things that the average person on the street has heard. Summoned characters, which every Final Fantasy names differently were called Astrals. This allowed the team to make sure that everybody could be clear on the basic ground rules of the lore.

Then to prevent the lore from becoming too flat, kennings were added for effect. For instance Titan is the God of Earth, and that how most refer to him, but at times you hear him called the “Archaeon” or “Land Forger” for a more eloquent style depending on context and who is talking.
You referenced Gamespot article which is full of inaccuracies and editorials with info they took from a PAX panel that they still ended up messing up like Gamespot calling Caem a city and that we take boats, despite the PAX panel having it stated that Caem is an outpost and that we take a boat to Accordo from there, and some other info that is nowhere else on the internet besides that Gamespot article like it saying the logo women is a goddess which doesn't even make any sense even at that point in time or according to the lore of the game at that point in time, she was already the Oracle by that point as Episode Duscae showed the Genesis art with the Oracle on it, with the prophecy in it, with the Chosen king and his men on it, with one of them bandages over their eyes on it, with the Astrals on it with Ifrit excluded because of what happened to him also evident in it.

It's been proven that the summons were never called Eidolons in XV, they were only Astrals and by extension Messengers with Carbuncle. You are being willfully ignorant of this fact, again datamine from content that lines up with 2014 content has Astral being mentioned and the localization started in 2014.

The livetranslor is not a game translator, them saying Eidolon is simply because the term is synonymous with Summon and everyone at that panel who were all FF fans knows what it means, there is nothing more to it. There is nothing to suggest that Eidolon was the correct term because of everything we know from the game itself, the datamine and the localization head himself stating the reasoning for the terms Astral, Messenger, Oracle etc.

because no competent translator would translate "Shoukan/召喚" to "Eidolon"
You're basing this on nothing, anyone who is familiar with summons and FF knowns that Eidolon is a term most synonymous with summons itself outside of just saying summon, and Shoukanjuu which is just Shoukan with the beast term added afterwards has been used to mean Eidolon, and Shoukan is just a shorthand way of referring to them, the same way people are more inclined to say Summons instead of Summon Beasts, there is nothing more to this.

You're rejecting a claim means nothing because you're still wrong, Eidolon is the most used term for Summon outside of Summon itself, him saying Eidolon is the same thing as him saying summon, it doesn't mean that is the term XV had for its summons, it's just what the live translator decided to call it becuase they mean the say thing.

As far as terms fans are most familiar with for summons it goes goes Summon, Eidolon, then Esper, then whatever else one off use whatever games decided to use. Someone saying Eidolon instead of summon when translating Shoukan doesn't mean that is incorrect, it just means they used a term that people know means Summon, which Eidolon is, because it's synonymous with summons.

This argument is severely flawed insofar as it bases itself entirely on the unsubstantiated assumption that the context of the Genesis painting was always exactly the same as what it ended up being in the game. Given how strange the visual placement of the one-winged figure is in terms of the game's final hierarchy, there's no reason to believe that the painting was always intended to be used the way it was eventually used. Having an actual goddess fill the Oracle's role wouldn't necessarily change anything else in the lore.
The placement of the Oracle above the Chosen is because the Oracle is dead, the wings and shut eyes are representative of that fact and her gesture of outstretched arms down to the Chosen is to indicate that even in death the Oracle still aids the Chosen, which is exactly what Luna does for Noctis, Ifrit is not on the painting because of the Astral war, one of the 3 men besides the Chosen with bandages on his eyes is clearly in reference to Ignis's fate, everything about the painting is completely in line with what our understanding of the lore in the game is. The woman in the painting is not a goddess, a random Gamespot article being on only place saying it is not proof enough when they are wrong about multiple things in the same article, and things dating back to 2014, the datamine and the game itself prove you wrong.

Hell the only actual summon in the datamine that was cut in the final game was Odin and even then that still doesn't change anything with the meaning of the painting, while there being some other random goddess we've never heard for before or since completely goes against everything we know about the games lore with the 6 Astrals being the gods and them having 24 messengers under them, with Carbuncle a messenger also technically being a summon, and even if Odin was still in him not being an Astral doesn't contradict anything since he'd easily be a messenger like Carbuncle or Garuda are. But some random goddess that we've never heard of being the goddess above the astrals goes against what is established and the entire point of Bahamut's perceived importance as the actual leader of the Astrals, and the only mention of this supposed goddess is a Gamespot article that is an editorial, not direct quotes and that is full of inaccuracies despite them reporting on things from the PAX panel too, such as them stating Caem is a city and that we take boats from there, while the PAX panel stated it was an outpost and we take a boat from there, and the live translator simply just used Eidolon because it's synonymous with summons, nothing more to it.
 
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Likes: rukloveis

Ikkin

White SeeD
Oct 30, 2016
864
1,218
He literally says it is the name chosen aka it is the name they decided when localizing the game with the explicit reasoning that they wanted to use terms that the layman would already be familiar with, which is why it was Astral, the localization started in 2014, mentions of Astral are found in the datamine, not a single mention of Eidolon is in any data for the game, the localization includes the fact that the Oracls, the Astrals being the gods, the Messengers, the Chosen King etc, were all already in place when the localization started, the game backs up this fact, the datamine backs up this fact and the localization heads stating the reasoning for why they chose those terms backs up that fact. You have no proof for anything.
Saying that Astral was "the name chosen" absolutely does not mean that there was never any other term considered or used prior to it. And it's patently absurd to suggest that the fact that the localization started in 2014 implies that all of the terms used in the final game were implemented in their final form at that point.

Anyway, if you want evidence that the summons were, at least at one point, called Eidolons, consider this:

Final Fantasy XV began as a Fabula Nova Crystallis game (FF Versus XIII) and was still a FNC game as of February 2014.

All FNC games called summons "Eidolons."

Over the course of 2014 and 2015, Final Fantasy XV underwent significant changes that transformed it from a game that was considered to be part of Fabula Nova Crystallis to a game that was no longer considered to be a part of Fabula Nova Crystallis as of its PAX 2015 showing.

That the term "Eidolon" doesn't appear in datamined content is not particularly suggestive, given that using Japanese terminology would have been far safer for a term with an inconsistent localization history. And, given that some of the datamined content includes Versus XIII material (where summons would have been called Eidolons), it seems like the term Eidolon might have been intentionally removed.

As such, while my only real evidence that the term Eidolon was still used in 2015 is the Gamespot article, that's considerably more than the evidence that you have provided, which consists of nothing more than free-standing assumptions and the fallacious insistence that the absence of evidence is the same as evidence of absence. If you're going to claim that the localization starting in 2014 means that all of the major terms were determined at that point and the concepts to which said terms refer have not changed since, you're gonna need some real good evidence, especially since FFXV was still FNC in early 2014.


I already addressed this, and again Astral was already mentioned in the demo, what he is referring to is that Astral had not been directly shown to be what the summons were called which is why people assumed Archaean was the term, that only backs up my point and proves you wrong even more. Because Titan is stated to be the Archaean Titan so people assumed that Archaean was the term for summon, but in the same demo it also states after Noctis obtains Ramuh that Noctis has obtained an Astral Power, Astral was a term already used there to directly used in reference to one of the summons, but it wasn't as clear cut as saying Astral was the term for Summon because it was simply not directly stated yet, not that it wasn't already in place. It was already in place since they started the localization and his reasoning for why that term even exists in the first place was already given, and so was his reasoning for why terms like Archaean and Landforger were used too, the term Stormsender is also mentioned in Ep Duscae to refer to Ramuh, meaning that what the localization head talked about with the terms of Astral being the summons, the Oracle, the Messengers, the use of kennings was also added too, and he specifically states that those were established as the basic ground rules for the lore.
You appear to have completely missed my point.

If the localization team was 100% certain that they were going to use Astral in the final game and they were willing to use the term without explaining what it was for in Episode Duscae, they would have explained that the Astrals were Astrals as soon as the confusion arose.... and they certainly wouldn't have failed to tell the live translator that summons were called Astrals during a post-Episode Duscae panel! There is literally zero reason for the localization team not to have made the choice clear if the localization wasn't in flux.

This contradicts your assumption that the term was in place since the localization started, but that is all the worse for your assumption, because it's far more reasonable to drop the assumption than to hold instead that the localization team was apparently too incompetent to say, "Hey, the summons are actually called Astrals" instead of simply saying that the summons weren't called Archaeans (and allowing a live translator to call them "Eidolons").

That the kennings were already in use doesn't prove that every important localization choice regarding proper nouns had been made. There's good reason to think that they weren't!


You referenced Gamespot article which is full of inaccuracies and editorials with info they took from a PAX panel that they still ended up messing up like Gamespot calling Caem a city and that we take boats, despite the PAX panel having it stated that Caem is an outpost and that we take a boat to Accordo from there, and some other info that is nowhere else on the internet besides that Gamespot article like it saying the logo women is a goddess which doesn't even make any sense even at that point in time or according to the lore of the game at that point in time, she was already the Oracle by that point as Episode Duscae showed the Genesis art with the Oracle on it, with the prophecy in it, with the Chosen king and his men on it, with one of them bandages over their eyes on it, with the Astrals on it with Ifrit excluded because of what happened to him also evident in it.
I think you misunderstand the provenance of Gamespot's information. Their article states that "director Hajime Tabata shared more details on the game's story and major features with GameSpot, including a deeper dive into footage shown during a panel at PAX Prime today."

In other words, they didn't report the information from the PAX Prime panel -- they asked Tabata exclusive questions after the panel, which is why they're the only source for a number of the things in the article.

This is important, of course, because that means that they were dealing with a different translation than the translation at the panel. Even if the same translator was used, it's possible that interpretative differences like city-vs.-town or boat-vs.-boats could have slipped in... which means that trivial details of the sort can't be used to undercut Gamespot's reliability.

As for the last bit, you're making unsubstantiated assumptions again. Given how many alterations FFXV's story went through, you literally have no evidence that the context of the painting was the same in 2014 as it was revealed to be in 2016. Some of the connections obviously remained the same -- most notably the four heroes and the knights -- but that doesn't mean that all of them are identical. To put it more pointedly, the reapers that exist in the painting no longer have any role in the game, so there were obviously at least some changes made.


It's been proven that the summons were never called Eidolons in XV, they were only Astrals and by extension Messengers with Carbuncle. You are being willfully ignorant of this fact, again datamine from content that lines up with 2014 content has Astral being mentioned and the localization started in 2014.
I'm not being willfully ignorant. You have proven literally nothing, given that your entire argument is based on assumptions, fallacies, and irrelevant details.


The livetranslor is not a game translator, them saying Eidolon is simply because the term is synonymous with Summon and everyone at that panel who were all FF fans knows what it means, there is nothing more to it. There is nothing to suggest that Eidolon was the correct term because of everything we know from the game itself, the datamine and the localization head himself stating the reasoning for the terms Astral, Messenger, Oracle etc.
The very fact that the use of "Eidolon" was considered by Gamespot to be a confirmation of the proper name for the summons is proof that the term isn't synonymous. Not to mention, if Eidolon was truly synonymous with summon, Gamespot wouldn't have felt it necessary to explain that Eidolon is "the term for creatures you can summon in Final Fantasy XV."

In other words, Gamespot didn't consider "Eidolon" synonymous with summon, therefore they did consider the live translator's use of that term sufficient to suggest to them that Eidolon was the correct term. And Gamespot is a professional outlet that knows how the Final Fantasy series works. They're not incompetent.


You're basing this on nothing, anyone who is familiar with summons and FF knowns that Eidolon is a term most synonymous with summons itself outside of just saying summon, and Shoukanjuu which is just Shoukan with the beast term added afterwards has been used to mean Eidolon, and Shoukan is just a shorthand way of referring to them, the same way people are more inclined to say Summons instead of Summon Beasts, there is nothing more to this.

You're rejecting a claim means nothing because you're still wrong, Eidolon is the most used term for Summon outside of Summon itself, him saying Eidolon is the same thing as him saying summon, it doesn't mean that is the term XV had for its summons, it's just what the live translator decided to call it becuase they mean the say thing.

As far as terms fans are most familiar with for summons it goes goes Summon, Eidolon, then Esper, then whatever else one off use whatever games decided to use. Someone saying Eidolon instead of summon when translating Shoukan doesn't mean that is incorrect, it just means they used a term that people know means Summon, which Eidolon is, because it's synonymous with summons.
No matter how many times you accuse me of "basing this on nothing," it won't stop being true that practically no one who discusses FF uses the term "Eidolon" in any instance where the original game didn't choose to use it as a proper noun. Dissidia 012 is the only counter-example, and even that can be explained as Dissidia -- an official FF game in its own right -- choosing its own proper noun to use for games that didn't use a proper noun for summons.

Show me five unique instances of people who use the term "Eidolon" as a generic for FF summons in games that don't use Eidolon as a proper noun, at least two of which are professional gaming news outlets, and I'll reconsider. If you can't do that, then admit that Eidolon is always a proper noun in the context of FF as opposed to a viable generic term for summon.


The placement of the Oracle above the Chosen is because the Oracle is dead, the wings and shut eyes are representative of that fact and her gesture of outstretched arms down to the Chosen is to indicate that even in death the Oracle still aids the Chosen, which is exactly what Luna does for Noctis, Ifrit is not on the painting because of the Astral war, one of the 3 men besides the Chosen with bandages on his eyes is clearly in reference to Ignis's fate, everything about the painting is completely in line with what our understanding of the lore in the game is. The woman in the painting is not a goddess, a random Gamespot article being on only place saying it is not proof enough when they are wrong about multiple things in the same article, and things dating back to 2014, the datamine and the game itself prove you wrong.
Explain the reapers, then. We know they were in the game and that they were removed. They're in the painting, but we don't even know what they were intended to be.

In other words, it's easy enough to justify the angelic figure being the Oracle in the context of the final game. But there's no way to know whether the angelic figure's role in 2014 or even 2015 was the same as the role that was in 2016 because we know for a fact that the game's lore has changed since then.

And I think it's worth considering this: literally no one in 2015 questioned that the angelic figure was a goddess, and no one could have guessed anything about the Oracle's role based on the painting. From the visual symbolism perspective, the angelic figure was clearly positioned as something more than what the Oracle ended up being.


Hell the only actual summon in the datamine that was cut in the final game was Odin and even then that still doesn't change anything with the meaning of the painting, while there being some other random goddess we've never heard for before or since completely goes against everything we know about the games lore with the 6 Astrals being the gods and them having 24 messengers under them, with Carbuncle a messenger also technically being a summon, and even if Odin was still in him not being an Astral doesn't contradict anything since he'd easily be a messenger like Carbuncle or Garuda are. But some random goddess that we've never heard of being the goddess above the astrals goes against what is established and the entire point of Bahamut's perceived importance as the actual leader of the Astrals, and the only mention of this supposed goddess is a Gamespot article that is an editorial, not direct quotes and that is full of inaccuracies despite them reporting on things from the PAX panel too, such as them stating Caem is a city and that we take boats from there, while the PAX panel stated it was an outpost and we take a boat from there, and the live translator simply just used Eidolon because it's synonymous with summons, nothing more to it.
Actually, I'd argue that the Astrals' role in the lore leaves an obvious open space for some power that exists above them. The Astrals were explained to have the power of the stars (hence the name "Astral"), and yet the soul of the planet Eos (the Star) is contained within a questionably-sentient Crystal. It is very, very easy to imagine a prior draft in which the Star was sentient and produced the Astrals before falling asleep within the Crystal... and how such a role could have been determined to be unnecessary when the team sought to streamline the game's lore.

In other words, the lore might be complete without a supreme goddess now, but there's no reason to assume that such a goddess never had a role to play in the game, especially since we know that one of the roles portrayed in the painting -- that of the reapers -- was depreciated. (Based on the Gamespot article, it also seems like the game originally planned to portray the creation of its world, which would have provided a reason why such a role would have been more necessary in earlier revisions. Furthermore, the article suggested that the primary influences in FFXV's mythos were Eastern, which does not hold in the final game, so the goddess's removal might have gone hand in hand with the game's apparent decision to focus on Judeo-Christian paralles.)

As such, trivial mistranslations alone are nowhere near enough to claim that the Gamespot article reported their exclusive interview so inaccurately that the exclusive information they included should be ignored.
 
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Lord_Ham_Mork

AVALANCHE Warrior
Feb 23, 2018
275
468
26
Someone published this on Reddit.
It's an AMV for Ardyn where the lyrics match perfectly with the character and what's seen in the video at the moment. Really impresive.

 
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mozzafaralj

Red Wings Commander
Apr 12, 2016
119
165
24

Oi what happened (especially left end) "FFXV" official comic "FINAL FANTASY XV episode car bunkle" episode 17

https://www.famitsu.com/matome/ff15/EPC_17.html

The 17th: Talcott growth

Prayer "Raves who kept beards comes out as" EXTRA CHAPTER Another possibility "of" EPISODE IGNIS "

Ambra "Beard and wound, sure ... ... Because Talcott was a child, it became a fine young man in the world ten years from now."

Prana "Talcott has become a hunter for ten years, seems that three of Gradio, Prompt and Ignis also had training."

Ambra "It seems that the distance is getting closer, especially with prompt as well as his personality." Talcott also calls parents "as prompt"

Plainer "Well, by the way Talcott became a hunter because we live in a world enveloped in darkness ... ... It is a butler of Amishitia family and I have mastered the foundation of battle Talcott who grew up watching Jarrett seems to have longing for fighting originally, and there is a feeling that Jarrett could not be protected, Talcott wishes to become strong and protect important people It seems he chose the way of Hunter. "

Ambra "That was it .... By the way," EPISODE ARDYN - PROLOGUE "has also been released and there is not any information on Arden?

Plyna "He likes wine and chess.It seems that he was fighting with Somnus and chess.Somnus seemed to be losing strong, such as his brother Arden got a handicap without a hand.Aden also got a crowd, It seems that he used to like such Somnusse in the past. "

Ambra "I used to be a close brother in the past ... ... Are there any opponents for Arden right now?"

Prakers "Now ... .... Perhaps, I am playing alone."

Ambra "Sure, that ... ...."

"Final Fantasy XV" Famitsu.com special site> FINAL FANTASY XV episode car basket> "FINAL FANTASY XV Episode Carbuncle" episode 17

5c85e7229349e.jpg

l_5c85e7224bc16.jpg

google translate

.
 
Jan 7, 2019
48
55
tbh I can stop this whole summon name thingo

eidolon was used in some old data but doesnt apply to current game. current game data just uses summons, then gods, six, astrals.

I don't think this really needed a big thing about it.
I thought they were going to write a book. Alright class take out your textbooks and turn to page 34, we're going to spend the next 24 months explaining what eidolon means.
 
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Ikkin

White SeeD
Oct 30, 2016
864
1,218
tbh I can stop this whole summon name thingo

eidolon was used in some old data but doesnt apply to current game. current game data just uses summons, then gods, six, astrals.

I don't think this really needed a big thing about it.
Well, that settles that. Thanks!

...who am I kidding? Now the debate is going to turn into whether "Eidolon" got changed before or after 2015, isn't it? >_>;
 
Jan 9, 2017
852
1,007

"FINAL FANTASY XV EPISODE ARDYN" new system introduction 1
Ardyn unique strength of the "shadow move" allows you to fly around the map at high speed and freely.
It is a very exhilarating action, so please use it when taking a walk in Insomnia.

This was nice to see, and thankfully, there were no spoilers in it. I'm going to try to not watch any more footage now, it's 12 days now, and I'm not risking a potential spoiler.
 
Jan 9, 2017
852
1,007
Personally, I have no care about how graphics look in any game, all I want is to experience a story and have fun, and I don't even have a priority towards music, even though I like listening to it. But that's just my opinion, and the video was from the Twitter account, and uploaded on YouTube by that YouTube user, and it might look better if it was in 720p or 1080p, and that's not available in the video which was taken from Twitter.
 
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