Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

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Loganight

Forest Owl
Feb 24, 2018
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the armiger animations of both Ardyn and Regis are so fucking cool, port that to the main game
I think that every user of the Royal Arms just has their own way of doing things, Regis and Ardyn are perfect examples of how differently two kings can fight using them. I think I'm happy with Armiger Unleashed being the true form of Noctis's ability to wield the Royal Arms, even if he doesn't go as hard as his dad in EA.

EDIT: Seeing the way it works in this DLC actually helped me come to that conclusion, before I just thought that it was dumb that Regis and Ardyn used generic weapons in their Armigers at one point or another. Now all of the weird specific shit they do doesn't feel like it breaks canon. Also adds to the idea that Noctis's injury gimped his powers.
 
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Feb 19, 2018
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I think that every user of the Royal Arms just has their own way of doing things, Regis and Ardyn are perfect examples of how differently two kings can fight using them. I think I'm happy with Armiger Unleashed being the true form of Noctis's ability to wield the Royal Arms, even if he doesn't go as hard as his dad in EA.

EDIT: Seeing the way it works in this DLC actually helped me come to that conclusion, before I just thought that it was dumb that Regis and Ardyn used generic weapons in their Armigers at one point or another. Now all of the weird specific shit they do doesn't feel like it breaks canon. Also adds to the idea that Noctis's injury gimped his powers.
While I would have loved to see that Armiger projectile barrage that Ardyn has, become usable for Noctis I think I'm also content with what he's got at this point too. The fact that Regis, Ardyn, and Noctis were given different styles of Armiger usage helps it feel less like Noct has less utility and/or that his Armiger has less potential and more like he just simply has a different style. Regis's Armiger is basically an impenetrable defense as he just prefers to have it swirl around him to block hits while Ardyn's Armiger is more of a crazy projectile frenzy and both are distinctly different compared to Noct's more acrobatic and zippy use of the ability. I think seeing more of how other users apply their own style to the ability helped me accept Noct's style with it more.


That being said though did you guys see that badass lightning ground pound that Regis did during the fight? I would've loved to see more elemental related abilities/attacks like that in the main game for Noct.
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
3,351
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Switzerland
the beginning is such a blatant homage to Versus xD I like it

nice that you can walk a bit in the middle of the crowd before Ifrits burns it lol

edit
is it just me or the shadowstep fog forms a wing in Ardyns back sometimes

the battle theme is wacky asf but somehow represents well Ardyns turbulent rage, either way OST-wise Ep Prompto and Ignis are consistently better imo.
 
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Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
1,099
1,705
So, thinking about the story implications of Episode Ardyn a bit...

I actually went and watched the entirety of Episode Ardyn because I was so unhappy about something that I got spoiled on unintentionally (i.e. Ardyn's corruption was all according to Bahamut's plan) that I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to pay for something that completely destroyed everything I liked about the game.

With that said, I think I'm okay enough about it after watching it that I don't mind paying $10 for the opportunity to collect all the extra lore that the streamer didn't go through, so...

The impression I get is that the Astrals* see the universe as fully deterministic. It's not that Bahamut came up with a cruel plan because he wanted Ardyn to spread darkness and for Noct to kill Ardyn to restore the light; Bahamut just knows how things are supposed to happen and gives them a push when necessary to make sure they go that way. Ardyn's calling is to do what he is already inclined to do, based on the consequences of his powers and his experiences, which is why it literally does not matter for canon whether Ardyn submits or resists**.

In the end, then, the Astrals are kind of like Fal'Cie, following a will greater than themselves without questioning it. House Fleuret and Somnus' branch of House Caelum accept that as well; Ardyn doesn't, but he can't actually change anything. It's pretty clear that the Dawn of the Future storyline is meant to reflect an alternate universe where Noct and Luna figure out some way to undo the determinism of the universe, but I'm not sure it's really necessary for Episode Ardyn to function within canon.

And, on the religious symbolism end of things, Ardyn kind of ends up as a weird fusion between Jesus and Judas Iscariot. Ardyn accuses Bahamut of making him a sacrificial lamb, but he's really more of a scapegoat in the final analysis. He's given the role of taking all the darkness and evil into himself so he can be cast out to restore the light. Noct, in contrast, is the innocent whose sacrifice is necessary for the light to be restored.

With all of that said, on a characterization level, I really liked what they did with Ardyn. The transition between the selfless healer and the complete sadist made far more sense than I expected it to, thanks to the combination of Verstael's intentional manipulation and the effect of the memories he absorbed when daemonifying people. It's not too hard to imagine that Ardyn's theatrical personality was the result of him having far too many lives inside him to retain his natural individuality, and that his sense of knowing the world like the back of his hand was the result of the number of people he'd absorbed rather than the amount of time he was able to roam Eos.

* Apart from presumably Ifrit. I highly suspect that the corrupted vision of Somnus and Aera after Ardyn daemonifies Ifrit was at least partially Ifrit's doing.
** The credits scene strongly suggests that the "resist your fate" ending is the canon one.
 

Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
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I like that the final two choices lead to the same end and dont change what happens, at most it changes how you view Ardyn's motivations.
Yeah, it allows you to see Ardyn's motivations in either light, should you so prefer. It's interesting that they do sort of imply that the crueler ending is the official one by creating links through visuals (Ardyn has one hand on the ground both at the end of the "reject fate" ending and the beginning of the credits scene) and dialogue (Ardyn specifically uses a variant on the language Aera used in the "reject fate" ending), though -- you can still view the "submit" ending as canon, but it doesn't quite flow as naturally.
 
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Jenova

Keyblade Master
Oct 28, 2013
729
583
Very interesting. So they doubled down on the thematic narrative of predetermination. It makes the loss of Episode Noctis even more of a shame from my perspective. However, now I seriously wonder if Episode Noctis would have truly offered the player an option for defying fate with a true happy end or falsified agency for an appearance of freedom just for predetermination to be the rule of law functionally.
 

Loganight

Forest Owl
Feb 24, 2018
377
811
25
I'm pretty sure the stuff in EA tees up Noctis to defy the gods in his episode. I'm honestly not a fan of how they changed Bahamut in EA but it's pretty clearly just so they could write a story about why Noctis would ever fight against the Astrals, thus creating the opportunity for them to rewrite the ending. Again, we'll probably see what was planned when the novel releases. No need to wonder, we'll know in about a month.
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
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Ending spoilers

the way they've set up both endings is neat, if you think about it BOTH could be canon, what if Ardyn was playing the part during the game, but even if he wasnt, the results would be kinda the same...

I think they managed to make something the main game lacked, the mistery... original FFXV was too black and white and simplory, but they added this layer of grey, now you even question if it was all fate or not, were the gods and the crystal the truly culprits...

it just hit me hard seeing Ardyn all alone in the throne, realizing nothing matters, no wonder he got fucking mad at the end.

edit

there is a cool explanation as to why Ardyn dresses like he does.
 
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Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
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I'm pretty sure the stuff in EA tees up Noctis to defy the gods in his episode. I'm honestly not a fan of how they changed Bahamut in EA but it's pretty clearly just so they could write a story about why Noctis would ever fight against the Astrals, thus creating the opportunity for them to rewrite the ending. Again, we'll probably see what was planned when the novel releases. No need to wonder, we'll know in about a month.
Well, Bahamut's been cold and pragmatic for a long while. The "Flowers in the Thaw" comic from the official anthology strongly suggested that emotions weren't really natural for the Astrals, so it's not that big of a stretch...

...unless they meant to imply that Bahamut was acting for a reason other than believing that fate had already been determined, but I don't think that was really what they were going for. It'll be interesting to see how the Japanese version of Bahamut's revelation compares, because I suspect that the localization choices might have made Bahamut seem to take more initiative than he was actually meant to be taking.
 
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Loganight

Forest Owl
Feb 24, 2018
377
811
25
Well, Bahamut's been cold and pragmatic for a long while. The "Flowers in the Thaw" comic from the official anthology strongly suggested that emotions weren't really natural for the Astrals, so it's not that big of a stretch...

...unless they meant to imply that Bahamut was acting for a reason other than believing that fate had already been determined, but I don't think that was really what they were going for. It'll be interesting to see how the Japanese version of Bahamut's revelation compares, because I suspect that the localization choices might have made Bahamut seem to take more initiative than he was actually meant to be taking.
What I mean is I never really subscribed to the whole "the Astrals are dicks for making Ardyn and Noctis go through what they did" mentality. Making it seem like Bahamut knew about Ardyn's eventual fall and allowing him to become the sacrificial lamb when we've litterally seen him physically intervene in the real world definitely paints a different picture of Bahamut than I had thought of before or would have liked. Especially since it's now canon, not just a verse 2 spin off scenario like I had thought Dawn of The Future would be.
 
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Feb 19, 2018
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What I mean is I never really subscribed to the whole "the Astrals are dicks for making Ardyn and Noctis go through what they did" mentality. Making it seem like Bahamut knew about Ardyn's eventual fall and allowing him to become the sacrificial lamb when we've litterally seen him physically intervene in the real world definitely paints a different picture of him than I had thought of before or would have liked. Especially since it's now canon, not just a verse 2 spin off scenario like I had thought Dawn of The Future would be.
I always got a Greek god vibe from the Astrals. Other than being a pantheon of gods rather than just one singular ruling god they're shown to have flaws and shortcomings. Ifrit gave man fire and they turned against him so he got angry, a very human reaction. His strong passion got the best of him as it ignited a war and brought him into conflict with literally everyone. Shiva was disgusted by humans and would apparently freeze over groups of people on a whim before Ifrit showed her how to feel compassion for them. Leviathan is extremely prideful and thinks super highly of herself to the point that she's not even willing to let Noct take the trial at first.

Anyways point is that a big theme of Greek mythology and more specifically the Greek pantheon of gods is how fallible and imperfect they are. They're not ideal deities, some of them are straight up scumbags and even the nicest ones have made mistakes or acted out of self interest. So that's why I'm not entirely shocked by the prospect of Bahamut using people as his pawns and fucking them over because I've always seen a closer resemblance to Greek gods in the Astrals than anything else.
 

Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
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What I mean is I never really subscribed to the whole "the Astrals are dicks for making Ardyn and Noctis go through what they did" mentality. Making it seem like Bahamut knew about Ardyn's eventual fall and allowing him to become the sacrificial lamb when we've litterally seen him physically intervene in the real world definitely paints a different picture of Bahamut than I had thought of before or would have liked. Especially since it's now canon, not just a verse 2 spin off scenario like I had thought Dawn of The Future would be.
Bahamut intervening in the real world doesn't necessarily contradict him being a strict determinist, though. If he's a strict determinist with knowledge of the future, he'd intervene if, when, and how it was fated that he would intervene (and he wouldn't intervene if it wasn't fated for him to do so).

Believe me, when I heard that Bahamut had set Ardyn up, I questioned whether I even wanted to buy the DLC anymore. But I think there's a big difference between Bahamut taking it upon himself to devise an incredibly cruel plan to bring about a desired outcome (which I would find sufficiently aggravating to intentionally withhold my financial support) and Bahamut simply knowing the future and believing that what is destined to happen must inevitably come to pass. The latter Bahamut isn't evil; he's just accepted the world as it is and seeks to play his part.

The only unquestionably cruel thing that Bahamut did was using Aera to torture Ardyn for refusing to submit. But even that, in the end, seemed like it was designed to ensure that Ardyn kept running towards his inevitable destiny instead of trying to mess things up by not pursuing his revenge plot.
 

Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
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I guess we can say Noctis is also a prisoner of fate, a sacrificial lamb that suffered every possible loss... its symbolic that he awakes at Angelgard, considering its a prison... Noctis and Ardyn have so many similarities...
I'd argue that Noct is more of a sacrificial lamb than Ardyn, because he's completely innocent. Ardyn, in contrast, serves the role of scapegoat. Noct's innocent blood purifies the world of the Scourge's stain; Ardyn bears the impurity of the world into oblivion.[/quote]