Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

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Oct 2, 2016
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Saying that the cancelled alt timeline DLC was the "real" ending or that Eos is a goddess of the Dawn in FFXV are "opinions" is not only based on flawed and poorly formed reasoning that goes against what the game actual has established as canon and facts, but to also say there is no toxicity in that is also false since people desperate to attack XV will use anything they can including stuff from Pez's misinformed videos and "theories" to try and use against the game. Especially those still trying to prop up their precious versus crap.

FF8's fan theories were not predicated on the basis that it had its "REAL!?!" ending added years after release or on things that aren't originated from the game itself, the whole R=U thing started from things only within the game itself. Pez just thinks because the name Eos in FFXV, which only the name came from the goddess from Greek mythos of the same name who is the Goddess of the Dawn there, he thinks that just because of that it somehow means there is an actual goddess of the dawn called Eos in FFXV and he keeps using the image of the Oracle from the prophecy as if that was Eos, and he thinks that this supposed Goddess called Eos in XV replaced Etro too. Like, you can have a fanfic, but you can also be wrong and not be an idiot spreading blatantly wrong information for other people to regurgitate, because of stuff he says his otherwise uninformed viewers take his words at face value because there isn't any other Youtuber around to say otherwise and it makes having any actual discourse surrounding the game borderline impossible because people keep spreading misinformation.

Saying something is just an opinion is not a defense against being wrong or for spreading misinformation.

Like if someone went around for 2 years pushing their "opinion" that omg Noctis is really Ardyn in every single scene in the entire game because he can transform! and keeps harping on about it despite being proven wrong multiple times, and makes monetized videos with clickbait titles about the game with blatant lies, at that point what's even the point of being truthful or correctly informed about anything? Why not just lie about everything because clearly there's people willing to just get lied to non stop?

My problem with him isn't that he has an opinion, my problem with him is that he spreads misinformation and people defend him for spreading misinformation.
You have good posts and great contributions; you add a lot to the community. But sometimes you intimidate others who you don't agree with, and you should probably chill out a bit. You're welcome to share your opinion or even hate against FFPeasant or why he is totally wrong, but you should relax with the intimidating snark that makes others feel guilty for sharing something out there. So far this forum is relatively toxic-free, so let's keep it that way?
 

Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
1,099
1,705
Pez just thinks because the name Eos in FFXV, which only the name came from the goddess from Greek mythos of the same name who is the Goddess of the Dawn there, he thinks that just because of that it somehow means there is an actual goddess of the dawn called Eos in FFXV and he keeps using the image of the Oracle from the prophecy as if that was Eos, and he thinks that this supposed Goddess called Eos in XV replaced Etro too. Like, you can have a fanfic, but you can also be wrong and not be an idiot spreading blatantly wrong information for other people to regurgitate, because of stuff he says his otherwise uninformed viewers take his words at face value because there isn't any other Youtuber around to say otherwise and it makes having any actual discourse surrounding the game borderline impossible because people keep spreading misinformation.
To be fair to Pez regarding the Eos thing, he didn't actually pull the existence of a supreme goddess out of nowhere.

The woman in the Final Fantasy XV logo--drawn by series artist Yoshitaka Amano--isn't necessarily Etro, the goddess of death mentioned in earlier trailers for Final Fantasy Versus XIII. She is, however, the most important goddess in XV's world, and Amano's original sketch of her was the inspiration for her character.
Source: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/16-more-things-we-learned-about-final-fantasy-15/1100-6430160/

This was, of course, said back in August of 2015, back when the Astrals were apparently called Eidolons.

Pez's issue, I would argue, isn't that he pulls stuff from nowhere but that he doesn't seem to get that things that existed in previous FFXV drafts are no longer relevant to what the game is currently. Thus, he imagines that the AU material draws on things from the series bible instead of inventing new concepts, and he can't quite accept that the unnamed supreme goddess no longer exists in the game's lore.

For what it's worth, I think the unnamed goddess's primary relevance is as a missing link in the evolution from Etro and Luna:
  • The woman in the logo likely was Etro when it was originally drawn, given that it was depicted sleeping (like Etro) and had a single wing that suggested a divine nature.
  • Etro is the goddess of death in FNC lore. Versus XIII leaks suggested that Stella might have been dead all along, which makes me wonder if she may have been intended to serve as a vessel of Etro at some point.
  • By August 2015, the woman in the logo had become "the most important goddess in XV's world" and was likely no longer meant to be Etro. This character was almost certainly a Tabata addition, inspired by Amano's original sketch rather than the character said sketch was meant to represent. When the name of the world was revealed, she was given the codename "Eos" by fans because it seemed to fit what we knew of her.
  • The Genesis painting, which is now described as showing the Oracle, was almost certainly meant to depict this "Eos" originally.
  • Luna's death, in which she sinks into dark water, is depicted in ways similar to Etro being consumed by Chaos in FNC lore. The Starscourge generally appears to play a similar role to FNC's Chaos.
Basically, I think that in the evolution of the game's lore, Nomura started out with Etro, then decided to make Stella her vessel. When Tabata took over, he decided to remove the FNC associations and changed the goddess from Etro to "Eos." At some point after that, Stella ceased to function properly as a vessel of "Eos," so the role was changed from "vessel to the supreme goddess" to "bridge between humanity and divinity," at which point the team decided to change the character's name from Stella to Luna. Finally, since Luna did everything "Eos" needed to anyway, the "Eos" role became obsolete, and the world was left without a visible supreme being.

...perhaps I should make a video of my own out of this. Hmm...

(Does anyone have a working link to that Versus leak? I know it was on NeoGAF, so who knows if it's still available. =/ )
 

Lulcielid

Warrior of Light
Oct 9, 2014
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Argentina
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Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
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So, leaving aside the question of whether there's ever been a goddess called Eos...

...there is definitely some potential in the idea that Luna's altered body in the Dawn of the Future novel is a divinized one. The options, as far as I can tell are a) she returns to life in a different-looking human body, b) she returns to life in a body infected by the Starscourge, and c) she returns to life in a divinized body. Option A seems both pointless and weird (especially if she was meant to be playable); Option B would cause massive canon compliance issues right off the bat and doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense given the plot as described. Option C, in contrast, would maintain compliance with the canon scenes added by the Royal Edition, provide an explanation for why Luna would suddenly gain the powers that she was able to use in the datamine, and recontextualize the canon ending.

The upshot of this would be that the two of them would finally have to decide whether to serve the world as divine protectors or return to life and live out the rest of their days as normal human royalty.

one of the reddit mods on discord said they had a trophy for president matsuda before

Presidential Promotion: Defeated President Matsuda



I looked and they posted this last year
The FFXVEN Twitter just said that the last Comrades boss is March 26th, so it's not impossible for said trophy to make a comeback. ;)
 

Lord_Ham_Mork

SOLDIER Second Class
Feb 23, 2018
344
587
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Well, if they are making the final update to Comrades, I think we will get the Mod tools too.
Maybe at the end this will not become the disaster we feared when the aniversary streaming happened.
 
Likes: Unoder
Feb 19, 2018
582
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Well, if they are making the final update to Comrades, I think we will get the Mod tools too.
Maybe at the end this will not become the disaster we feared when the aniversary streaming happened.
The fact that they're giving Comrades one last free update gives me hope that the main game will receive one final patch as well. One can hope that the devs will be able to do as much as possible before they call it a wrap on FFXV.
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,773
2,595
One thing is making theories and is another thing to spreed misinformation (like the alternative timeline being "the real ending", the existence of a goddess called Eos being some of them).

Edit:
Really hope this indicates that the Level Editor Mod Tool made it out alive as well.

The fact that they're giving Comrades one last free update gives me hope that the main game will receive one final patch as well. One can hope that the devs will be able to do as much as possible before they call it a wrap on FFXV.
AFAIK they did mention doing everything they could with the game from a Q/A event(?), so here's hoping that's the case.
 

SonOfEtro

Warrior of Light
May 2, 2016
1,036
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Don't worry, i missed that 2 of the 3 times I've seen it.
I did some looking up as it was such a weird name. The word "Adagium" is the source word for "adage". Adagium/adage is basically a short phrase that's been in long use and is generally counted as truth.

Rather a funny name for something. Methinks the developers are attaching Latin willy-nilly without considering how silly it sounds when translated into English.
 
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Likes: NikoZ

Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
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1,705
Is adagium supposed to be disparaging? This game sometimes uses vocabulary I never heard before. Like "recalcitrant vagabond" that line was cut from the game.
Based on the translation, it seems more like a military target codename than an insult. Like, the US military called Osama bin Laden "Geronimo" as a codename. Did it mean anything? Probably not. (For what it's worth, I also found an interesting list of Secret Service codenames for their Presidential charges, which includes "Lancer," "Rawhide," "Timberwolf," and "Renegade.")

As for the game's choice of English vocabulary, that seems to be a trend among Squenix's localization team. Kingdom Hearts has a few characters who love using words that would make the target audience reach for their dictionaries, too (my favorite of which is the Big Bad calling one of the heroes a "feckless neophyte").
 

Vallen

Forest Owl
Mar 4, 2018
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One thing is making theories and is another thing to spreed misinformation (like the alternative timeline being "the real ending", the existence of a goddess called Eos being some of them).
Spreading misinformation is presenting something as facts. Discussing theories and ideas of what a piece of DLC or novel entails is theory crafting and speculation. Two different things.

For example:

Scenario A: stating versus XV is happening = misinformation

Scenario B: saying what if some versus concepts make it into Verum Rex if that ends up being KH DLC = speculating and theories

Pez falls under Scenario B
 
Likes: Lord_Ham_Mork

Bazztek

Keyblade Master
May 26, 2014
719
1,890
I didn’t know that in 2019 it’s suddenly illegal to make theory videos on YouTube. Or that you have to explain yourself for posting something relevant to a forum topic in said forum.
Could you be more obtuse? There is a difference between posting a theory and literal clickbait and spreading misinformation.

Spreading misinformation is presenting something as facts. Discussing theories and ideas of what a piece of DLC or novel entails is theory crafting and speculation. Two different things.

For example:

Scenario A: stating versus XV is happening = misinformation

Scenario B: saying what if some versus concepts make it into Verum Rex if that ends up being KH DLC = speculating and theories

Pez falls under Scenario B
He literally still states that Eos is a goddess in XV and is claiming that the cancelled DLC story is the real ending, and despite the devs themselves stating them to be alternate timelines he is saying they are main canon.
 
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Bazztek

Keyblade Master
May 26, 2014
719
1,890
To be fair to Pez regarding the Eos thing, he didn't actually pull the existence of a supreme goddess out of nowhere.



Source: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/16-more-things-we-learned-about-final-fantasy-15/1100-6430160/

This was, of course, said back in August of 2015, back when the Astrals were apparently called Eidolons.

Pez's issue, I would argue, isn't that he pulls stuff from nowhere but that he doesn't seem to get that things that existed in previous FFXV drafts are no longer relevant to what the game is currently. Thus, he imagines that the AU material draws on things from the series bible instead of inventing new concepts, and he can't quite accept that the unnamed supreme goddess no longer exists in the game's lore.

For what it's worth, I think the unnamed goddess's primary relevance is as a missing link in the evolution from Etro and Luna:
  • The woman in the logo likely was Etro when it was originally drawn, given that it was depicted sleeping (like Etro) and had a single wing that suggested a divine nature.
  • Etro is the goddess of death in FNC lore. Versus XIII leaks suggested that Stella might have been dead all along, which makes me wonder if she may have been intended to serve as a vessel of Etro at some point.
  • By August 2015, the woman in the logo had become "the most important goddess in XV's world" and was likely no longer meant to be Etro. This character was almost certainly a Tabata addition, inspired by Amano's original sketch rather than the character said sketch was meant to represent. When the name of the world was revealed, she was given the codename "Eos" by fans because it seemed to fit what we knew of her.
  • The Genesis painting, which is now described as showing the Oracle, was almost certainly meant to depict this "Eos" originally.
  • Luna's death, in which she sinks into dark water, is depicted in ways similar to Etro being consumed by Chaos in FNC lore. The Starscourge generally appears to play a similar role to FNC's Chaos.
Basically, I think that in the evolution of the game's lore, Nomura started out with Etro, then decided to make Stella her vessel. When Tabata took over, he decided to remove the FNC associations and changed the goddess from Etro to "Eos." At some point after that, Stella ceased to function properly as a vessel of "Eos," so the role was changed from "vessel to the supreme goddess" to "bridge between humanity and divinity," at which point the team decided to change the character's name from Stella to Luna. Finally, since Luna did everything "Eos" needed to anyway, the "Eos" role became obsolete, and the world was left without a visible supreme being.

...perhaps I should make a video of my own out of this. Hmm...

(Does anyone have a working link to that Versus leak? I know it was on NeoGAF, so who knows if it's still available. =/ )
Yeah I remember that article, but the thing with it is that it's an editorial rather than direct quotes from Tabata, and far too often in editorials like this I've seen game journalists mess up details or get things wrong, so it's hard to take that line regarding the logo woman even in 2015 being a goddess as definitive proof of anything, especially when as you said that article states that the summons are called Eidolons in XV, though not the writers fault since they are just repeating what the translator from PAX called them, but at that point in time the name "Archaean" was seen in the Episode Duscase loading screen referred to Titan the "Archaean", people assumed that "Archaean" was the term for the summons in XV back when Ep Duscae first came out, until a bit later on in the demo when another term "Astral" also referred to the power of the summons, as when Noctis gets Ramuh it states that Noctis has acquired a new Astral Power, which then clued people in that the summons could also be called Astral. People didn't know that Archaean was just term a that only Titan is referred to as at the time, and I remember when that ATR and interview from PAX 2015 came out calling the summons in XV as Eidolons it caused a bunch of confusion and even in 2015 people including SE translators would call them Eidolons too until we later got confirmation that the summons are called Astrals and are the gods themselves.

Regarding the logo too people assumed it was Etro but Nomura never stated it was Etro, and Amano himself says he doesn't even remember what the logo meant. The Genesis painting was also seen in Episode Duscae months before that August 2015 interview and the painting showed the Oracle above the Chosen King, and the Astrals had already become the Gods of XV's world when the Genesis painting was made, as Ifrit is not present either because of what happened to him, so it never really made sense for there to be another goddess above them named Eos.
 
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Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
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Eos is the goddess of dawn in Greek mythos and its stated in-game the crystal is the soul of the planet, which is named Eos... just like Pulse was named like the god Pulse in FFXIII or Hydaelyn is named like the mothercrystal in FFXIV.

It doesnt confirm anything because the game never focuses on it but we at least know there is something beyond the Astrals so the theory isnt completely out of the charts.

While clickbait videos like Pez may contain false or unconfirmed information it also doesnt invalidate everything else, I dont think anyone takes him 100% seriously anyway lol

either way its a fictional story and I couldnt care less lmao

Edit: he does say the dlc ending is the real ending, he's dumb.
 
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