The truth about FFXVersus XIII

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Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
698
806
Thing is, I think Versus just needs to be put down. The idea is very cool, but I just don't think Square's ready to push out a tripe-A title of that level of darkness and maturity yet. I know a lot of games of theirs push the envelop, but they're just not quite there yet.

[...]

As for Versus, while the original concepts will always be dear to me, I think it's time to let it rest. While I think it would be amazing to have a game of that caliber, ambition, and grittiness/darkness/moral ambiguity, I just don't think XV is the place to place those eggs. Technology is a rapidly changing thing, and video games as a social phenomenon changes rapidly with it. I still remember, pretty recently too, that video games were seen as childish and not a medium to deliver darker, more sophisticated story-telling. Square isn't a company known for making gritty, dark titles and Versus came at a time before the market really reflected these changes. Nowadays, since Japan's making a shift towards mobile gaming and the console market is becoming increasingly more relevant to the Western market, I really think Square could do this sooner than we think. XV felt like a gung-ho chance to experiment with a west-centric game, what with it being open-world--which is something westernized gaming is leaning more and more towards.

Thing is, I just don't think XV was the game for super dark themes. It was experimental, and it had its moments of pushing the envelop, but it's still a T-rated game. Most triple-A titles, that I've seen, are M-rated by far. Almost to the point that it's standard, because the industry understands its demographics are maturing from the kids who loved Pokemon and LoZ and Mario to people who want darker games, like the Witcher series, Silent Hill, Soulsborne, Uncharted--what have you. I think Square likely understands this, or is beginning to, and I have faith the 7 remake could push closer to an M-rating if not be M-rated altogether. XVI might even be the first dark and gritty FF that we've been hoping for, that could retain Versus' ambition and spirit.
I remain baffled by the insistence that Versus itself had "that level of darkness and maturity" or "that caliber, ambition, and grittiness/darkness/moral ambiguity..." whatever that means.

If we're to judge by this leak, Versus was a multi-part FFXV with a dream world where Noct talked to dead people and time travel. If we're to judge by other leaks, Noct unknowingly killed Stella and then hallucinated about her, Gentiana was another human with the ability to see the dead instead of an Astral, and/or Umbra was a shapeshifting ninja who could switch between canine and human forms. Those kind of changes wouldn't make Versus darker and grittier than other Squenix games in a meaningful way.

And it's important to keep in mind that Squenix doesn't just make FF games. Back in the PSOne days, Square made Parasite Eve. Squenix now makes Tomb Raider's M-rated reboot, Deus Ex, and Nier games. Squenix even made an M-rated FF game in Type-0. Mainline FF is a bit different, of course, but I don't think either FFVII or FFXVI would benefit from being more like those other games, and the elements that distinguished Versus had little to do with its potential rating.

Something else that's important to consider is that an increase in maturity doesn't necessarily require an increase in rating, depending on how it's done. As such, I feel the need to point out that Uncharted is decidedly not an M-rated game. >_>; Uncharted 4 was mature because it decided to center around the concept of finding a work-life balance, not because it was inappropriate for teenagers to play. There's no reason why FF can't choose to focus on more mature themes while retaining its rating (I'd argue that FFXV did exactly that).
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,514
2,020
I'm REALLY getting fed up with the amount of people putting their perception of Versus XIII on an impossibly high pedastol.

When a deleted blog of Wan Hazmer confirms that what we saw with Versus XIII wasn't even the entirety of Nomura's vision (especially when it was already changing), then it bears to mind that i really think stepping back and looking at the bigger picture would be the better decision.
 

Rin

Reformed
Apr 11, 2015
332
330
I'm REALLY getting fed up with the amount of people putting their perception of Versus XIII on an impossibly high pedastol.

When a deleted blog of Wan Hazmer confirms that what we saw with Versus XIII wasn't even the entirety of Nomura's vision (especially when it was already changing), then it bears to mind that i really think stepping back and looking at the bigger picture would be the better decision.
Nomura can do no wrong, tbh. His game will always be perfect ‘cause it was never released.
 
Likes: AnGer-dono

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,618
1,295
Whoa the convo here is still ongoing?

@Takeshi Sendo I wasn't being sarcastic about you being featured in a video btw. It's not everyday someone creates a video centred around something you created and it's pretty cool if you ask me.

I don't mind Peasant. If you keep an open mind and just watch his stuff for fun, then he's not bad. The issue is when people start to think that his videos are facts. Not even sure why some people see it as such, since he clearly states in his videos that he's sharing theories, not hard facts.

Anyway, moving on.

Versus has been put to rest.

FFXV is alive and well. Let's focus on this.
 
Likes: Lord_Ham_Mork
Feb 2, 2017
418
366
Nope.
FFXV is alive, but it stinks of a lousy game.

Versus in our hearts forever.
Sounds like head canon to me. If FFXV is as lousy of a product as you claim it to be, then it would have failed as a project day one with no continued support, which could have easily taken place given the development hell it went through. The reality of the matter, regardless of what your head canon says otherwise, is that FFXV has been successful enough to warrant support going into 2019. I can't think of many console sided games that get that type of on-going support with something new to talk about often.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
Nope.
FFXV is alive, but it stinks of a lousy game.

Versus in our hearts forever.
Then let's get it out of our hearts and put it in game form shall we?
Man I wish they just did the 3 part trilogy and not this 1 singular title with a bunch of add-ons that would have been nice

FFXV Part 1 2016 and the rest in 2018-2020
World of the Versus Epic
 
Likes: llazy77

Bazztek

AVALANCHE Warrior
May 26, 2014
260
452
Nope.
FFXV is alive, but it stinks of a lousy game.

Versus in our hearts forever.
That's not Versus so why are you pretending it is? Why are Versus fanboys always the biggest liars that have no clue what Versus even is and constantly have to pretend 2013 XV was the same thing as Versus when it factually isn't?

That image is from a FFXV presentation that XV devs did at a Japanese University in 2017 and that specific image is from a 2013/2014 version of the game.
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,672
4,162
26
More like Square meddled with things but ok
of course bad management helped, but theres a reason one team managed to release three games (XIII trilogy) in a generation and one didn't.

also in the Edge interview the producer said the game was not working, at a point the CEO wanted it cancelled, with tabata mentioning nomura's team having a bad rep.

if it was good, it would have been released.
 
Likes: Lord_Ham_Mork

xXDibbs

Stiltzkin's Apprentice
Feb 25, 2018
10
13
29
Just wanted to chime in on this thread while I still had the chance, Leon says you have a trustworthy source so can I ask you to ask that source what the 4 planned DLC for FFXV will be called?

I think that there is some truth to your post, but I can definitely tell that your source if valid isn't someone with a a good grasp on the big picture from my understanding so far.

I'm willing to accept that I may be way off mark here, but the impression I get is that it was management shift that had the most profound impact on what was at that time Versus XIII.

A lot of the calls that made Versus into FFXV were made from the upper management, I can see that your source wasn't aware of Matsuda san saying that the game needed to be finished by 2016 no later and that it must be self contained.

These are not bad decisions in and of themselves, I just don't think that the company had the resources at the time to finish Versus as a trilogy.

I know quite a boring cause right?

I also don't think that Tabata should be antagonized for what he had to do to get the game out, I believe he wanted to use the "Games as a Service" model to take the revenue from the games sales and use it to finish off the assets that had to be cut and put them back into the game over time.

Now its not ideal, and may very well not end well in the long term but I baleive that things such as the world of dreams and the story of Ravus can be salvaged back into the game.

I'm pretty sure that your source will have access the 4 DLC "episodes", so do please share it.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
of course bad management helped, but theres a reason one team managed to release three games (XIII trilogy) in a generation and one didn't.

also in the Edge interview the producer said the game was not working, at a point the CEO wanted it cancelled, with tabata mentioning nomura's team having a bad rep.

if it was good, it would have been released.
Yeah 1 team managed to get a trilogy out because XIII got priority even down to the tools it got priority, Nomura always knew Versus comes later.
The CEO almost cancelled Type-0 as well so it doesn't really matter, also it seemed that the project had a bad rep not the team, they just didn't want to deal with that project which is likely do to what was actually wrong with it(faulty engine that simply didn't work for Versus XIII which is why they had to make a game specific engine for it).
Also Versus XIII or XV 2013 was part of a 3 game trilogy and Square didn't expect the game to sell all that well so they made it 1 game. It's called cutting corners.

You and your imaginary friends? x)
Oh come now I don't exist?
 
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Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,672
4,162
26
Yeah 1 team managed to get a trilogy out because XIII got priority, Nomura always knew Versus comes later.
The CEO almost cancelled Type-0 as well so it doesn't really matter, also it seemed that the project had a bad rep not the team, they just didn't want to deal with that project which is likely do to what was actually wrong with it(faulty engine that simply didn't work for Versus XIII which is why they had to make a game specific engine for it).
Also Versus XIII or XV 2013 was part of a 3 game trilogy and Square didn't expect the game to sell all that well so they made it 1 game. It's called cutting corners.
for another reason, and the game released later anyway, Versus XIII didn't.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
for another reason, and the game released later anyway, Versus XIII didn't.
Of course Versus XIII didn't release later it's not like they had much of a dedicated team working on it, and had to work with completely different tools than the Type-0 staff and I should also add Type-0 got scaled down just like XV. In fact the FF Agito is closer to what they wanted to do with Type-0
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,672
4,162
26
Of course Versus XIII didn't release later it's not like they had much of a dedicated team working on it, and had to work with completely different tools than the Type-0 staff and I should also add Type-0 got scaled down just like XV. In fact the FF Agito is closer to what they wanted to do with Type-0
thats not why the game was cancelled.

i mean, read the interview.
 

xXDibbs

Stiltzkin's Apprentice
Feb 25, 2018
10
13
29
Guys, guys lets not let this thread devolve into senseless back and forth about what is essentially nothing substantial.

Share your ideas, don't attack anyone whether your agree or disagree but fell free to discuss those ideas.

Just don't develop an emotional attachment to your ideas.
 
Likes: Hey Everyone

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
thats not why the game was cancelled.

i mean, read the interview.
I read the interview it was cancelled due to it having technical difficulties due to engine and other difficulties due to Square.

So it's not as simple as it would have come out if it was good that completely undermines to complexities of the development or the development of anything in general
Square wanted something that they thought was profitable they didn't think Versus would be that profitable as a trilogy so they settled for this not so much that Versus was bad, I think even Square knows if they didn't saddle Versus with what they did, and didn't meddle with it, it would have at least been a good game maybe even great considering who was working on it.
 
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