Why FFVII Remake going action would not bother me anymore. (Opinions Thread)

[Crystal Power]

Hello everyone, it's time for an opinions thread. I will obviously be giving you the detail on what I think, but I will also like others to chip in on what they think. But first things first, if someone disagree please be mature about it, do not troll. Don't try to pass your opinions as facts. Do not insult anyone over their opinions, Respect others. You are free to rebuttal but let's not get personal... Let's have a nice discussion on this.

So if you were to ask me years ago on what a FFVII remake battle system should be, I would directly and swiftly reply with "keep the turn-based system". To be honest I thought this way even up until the official announcement.

Over some thinking and looking over many feelings on this, I came to terms that the FF remake having an action gameplay rather than ATB is not as bad as many may seem to believe. Let's clarify, Turn-based and ATB is NOT outdated. I strongly believe a gameplay style can't become "outdated" and I absolutely love turn-based. You see, my reason is not that I want the gameplay to convert to action but if it did I would not mind. One reason is, I feel it is not a big deal as many make it to be. Then shortly I seen interviews with Tetsuys Nomura, and I found myself agreeing with his words. Here's is a direct statement from him "The "HD" PC version is coming to PS4 already. We don't need two of the same thing. Even if we beautified and upgraded the visuals -- something that's bound to happen. If it's a full remake, then of course, we want to take a different approach. If we actually just upgraded the visuals -- there'd be no need for me to direct it."

I agree, There's not much a reason for remake if things were not bond to be altered. If you want enhanced visuals 'only', there's the port and PC mods. No matter what the remake do, the original will always exist and be playable.

Things won't be as drastic as you may fear though.

"Q:So you could flip the genders of say, Yuffie?

Nomura: Nothing that drastic!"

Going back to the battle system, thinking it over. Playing FFVII in action could be a thrilling experience. I am imagining, controlling the cast in real time, whom ever you choose Barret, Tifa, Yuffie, etc? Having full control on the field, and engaging in battle with them. The thought is exciting, perhaps in a style similar FFXV, but a controllable cast. Also I should give another quote from Nomura on the battle system.

Nomura: "I don't want to change it that much. But we can't have these upgraded, beautiful 3D models of Cloud and Barrett, still lining up in a row, jumping forward to attack an enemy, then jumping back to wait for their next turn. That would be bizarre."

This does not imply the gameplay will be action, but maybe even in a style like FFXIII (X-2 or Dragon Quest IX), where the characters move about on the battle fields to add more realism, but it's still turn based or ATB.

Either way the gameplay might change, and the story will be altered. I'm sure I will find myself satisfied. But I am the person who loves each FF I have played. The only thing that could make this remake bad for me is if Barret ran around hitting himself in the head, and Tifa started doing KO combos with her boobs etc etc. Haha! XD

I will leave the post there for now, as it's already gotten to lengthy. I look forward to reading everyone opinions on this. I will also add a poll so please vote (Note: Poll choices will be publicly shown, you will also be free to change your option at anytime)..

Also for more knowledge here are some interviews with Nomura on Final Fantasy VII Remake.

Source 1: http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/17/final-fantasy-vii-remake-interview-e3-2015/

Source 2: http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/1...nt-before-final-fantasy-vii-port-says-nomura/

Source 3: http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/17/final-fantasy-vii-remake-will-have-more-work-done-to-its-story/

 

[Mistwalker]

I want them to try something new.
In this I'm with Nomura: you have the classic, old-school version of FFVII available on PS1, PS3 through PSN, PC through a physical release or Steam, and soon it will be available on PS4 and iOS (and Android, I suppose). Why would you want the remake to be the same game, with the same mechanics, if you can have something new? Even very loved creators as Hideo Kojima have said they didn't want to make remakes of their games because that was nothing new to them and they wanted to create new things.

FFVIIR may have whatever system or gameplay it may have, but if it respects the philosophy Square has followed for years of always trying new things, then I don't care whatever this game might bring. I'll embrace it.

 

[AnGer-dono]

It depends on how they design the world within the game and if the enemies can be seen or not.

I'd prefer something in the vein of Final Fantasy XIV or XII, i.e. a mix between the ATB system and real-time combat, which means they should go for a world design akin to those games, however, they should keep the world map for traversal and make areas like mountain ranges or swamps for combat - Chrono Trigger style.

If they go for enemies that cannot be seen, I'd reuse the old turn-based or maybe ATB system. In the end, I don't mind either way, as long as it works for the gameplay balance and overall pacing of the game.

 

[Zero]

I don't mind new things if they turn out well but in this particular case I'd rather they play it safe and keep it turned-based. That said, though, I don't mind if they change it up some. Personally I think XIII's battle system would be a good fit for FFVIIR, if they tweaked it right.

 

[BladeRunner]

Personally I'm okay with both action and ATB combat. I'm sure both could work well but I'd prefer ATB. It's not like it has to be a carbon copy of original FFVII's combat system. There's still a lot that can be done with ATB to improve it. They can use elements from other games, like fast paced combat from X-2 or position-based attacks from Chrono Trigger and introduce some completely new mechanics. Characters could move around the battlefield like in FFXIII to make it look more dynamic. I believe they should use all the experience from previous games to develop a system which would be in line with spirit of the original, but different enough to keep things interesting - a modern evolution of old school FF combat.

As I said, I wouldn't mind action-based but there are already two huge titles with this type of combat coming (FFXV and KH3), so I'd prefer it if this one was different.

And even though I'm okay with action combat, there is one thing that would make me boycott the game: Nomura pulling FFXV again and making Cloud the only playable character.

 

[Crystal Power]

Everyone has brought up very good details!

@Wazi the pa It's so plausible. I think that might be Tifa's new Final Limit. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

That's true the exceptions are high, and after reading the interviews I am very sure Nomura and the team are very well aware of this. Yet just like he said he doesn't want to create a carbon copy, and that's understandable.

@Mistwalker That's true. I still can enjoy the original. I think this remake would be a good chance to add many things, fix things? Add things? Can you believe someone said they better have Aerith's name as Aeris? Oh boy...

@AnGer-dono Actually that is something I think about a lot. Will random encounters be truly 'random'? I honestly would not mind a style like FFXIII, the enemies roam and when you encounter them you are in the battle field.

@Zero I agree that could work as well. I can see many versions of FFXIII battle systems that could be tweaked, by adding and removing certain features.

@BladeRunner "there are already two huge titles with this type of combat coming (FFXV and KH3), so I'd prefer it if this one was different." That is indeed true! In that perspective it would be nice to see a big turn-based project.

 

[ScienceNonfiction]

I am completely in line with @Mistwalker actually. I want something new, whether that means an evolution of ATB or a fully real time system. Original VII is available on many modern platforms. It's still there for everyone to enjoy, and is still a game worth playing. That's why Remake should bring something new to the table.

 

[AnGer-dono]

@AnGer-dono Actually that is something I think about a lot. Will random encounters be truly 'random'? I honestly would not mind a style like FFXIII, the enemies roam and when you encounter them you are in the battle field.

This I would mind. Personally, I prefer random encounters when there's an "arena" involved, be it turn-based, ATB or action-based, because it keeps the overall pacing of the gameplay brisk and makes grinding sessions a little less annoying. I wouldn't straight up boycott a game for implementing this kind of encounter system, but it would be a dent in my overall perception unless the creators manage to keep the gameplay well-paced with this.

A good example would be Tales of Xillia vs. Tales of Hearts R. I hated the encounters in the former* but loved them in the latter.

*it got better in the second playthrough though because I could make use of NG+ boni that allowed me to raise standard EXP.

 

[Crystal Power]

This I would mind. Personally, I prefer random encounters when there's an "arena" involved, be it turn-based, ATB or action-based, because it keeps the overall pacing of the gameplay brisk and makes grinding sessions a little less annoying. I wouldn't straight up boycott a game for implementing this kind of encounter system, but it would be a dent in my overall perception unless the creators manage to keep the gameplay well-paced with this.

A good example would be Tales of Xillia vs. Tales of Hearts R. I hated the encounters in the former* but loved them in the latter.

*it got better in the second playthrough though because I could make use of NG+ boni that allowed me to raise standard EXP.

The thing I enjoy about enemies being visible is that you can choose to avoid encounters when possible. In Tales there is the holy bottle that reduce battle encounters. FF does not have an item like this, only mechanics like FF8 you can reduce the encounter rate. Then there are times to remove encounters completely.

Also when you want to fight a specific enemy for whatever reason it might be, gil, to steal, the item it might drop? Visible enemies make this task less tedious.

 

[AnGer-dono]

While all of your criticisms pertaining to random encounters are valid, these points can be worked around. Allowing the player to manipulate the encounter rate to both increasing the amount of battles and avoiding them altogether - both desirable features - has been done and it works well in the aforementioned Tales of Hearts R, which uses items for both increasing and decreasing encounters, and SE's own Bravely Default, where it can be done freely. Also, most games feature only a minor amount of kinds foes per area (I'm playing Bravely right now which has approximately four to five kinds of enemies per area), making seeking them out less tedious, and you will have to deal with drop rates regardless of what mode of encounter is in place.

If you feel that having visible foes works better for you, I'm cool with that. I don't mind it, but in some games, grinding levels with such a system feels like - well, like a grind. Especially Xillia was bad with this where the Dark Bottle still required you to run up fairly close to enemies and in regards to this I prefer a random encounter system that can be manipulated to work with whatever I intend to do within the game at any given moment.

 

[Crystal Power]

Good points, if they could implement a feature like in Bravely Default that could fix the issue I have easily.

In the end I am open to both, I honestly can't recall in FF where random encounters got to the point of frustration. I guess after I recently played Tales of Legendia, in where the character quest story it have you going into the same dungeons you went in the main story, only to make it to the end then have to track your steps all they way to the dungeons entrance to leave, I can't lie, that felt so annoying. ^^;;

 

[Lulcielid]

Good points, if they could implement a feature like in Bravely Default that could fix the issue I have easily.

In the end I am open to both, I honestly can't recall in FF where random encounters got to the point of frustration. I guess after I recently played Tales of Legendia, in where the character quest story it have you going into the same dungeons you went in the main story, only to make it to the end then have to track your steps all they way to the dungeons entrance to leave, I can't lie, that felt so annoying. ^^;;

Random ecounters only get frustating when you´re in a hurry to get to some location or move the plot.

 

[Crystal Power]

Yes, reason why the character quest in Tales of Legendia was so tedious as you are visiting every single old dungeon, and once at the end you are force to retrace your steps to leave out.

However, remember Nomura words very well in these interviews. It's highly plausible random encounters will be replace with visible ones. Bravely Default can't be used as an example here as what he described the battle style of the original FF7, that resembles BD of characters "still lining up in a row, jumping forward to attack an enemy, then jumping back to wait for their next turn. That would be bizarre." quoted from Nomura's own words. So just because it worked in a fairly new game that used chibi graphics, does not mean it will work here.

But who knows what's possible? Nonetheless I am prepared for it all.

 

[FootloosePhoenix]

I agree with everything you've said, Crystal. I think either an updated turn-based system or a more action-y, KH/FFXV take on it would be a lot of fun. I don't even have a preference at this point; I'm just dying to see what they'll go with. Just as long as they keep the Materia system in some capacity and it allows for plenty of customization. They could even expand upon it by adding new Materia that gives your characters different abilities. That would be awesome. VII still boasts one of the best combat systems in the series, if you ask me, all thanks to Materia.

 

[ScienceNonfiction]

I highly doubt they'd retain random encounters (and that's a good thing). There's no reason to include them anymore. It's less tedious, less annoying, and just better to have visible enemies, and I'd assume that's the route they're taking here.

 

[APZonerunner]

I think now they're doing it they might as well go all the way and do something far different, but I honestly just wish this talent was working on a whole new game - but alas. They may as well go as different as possible now.

However: There are knock-on effects. For instance, if they remove encounters and go for a real-time system like FF15, how do you integrate the iconic battle theme? 15's are more organic for a reason, for instance - you can't do those strong themes in that way when it has to transition. Likewise, if you go for that type of system, as Tabata has explained, you need more silence and ambience. Will people be upset if a Mako Reactor isn't accompanied by that iconic music throughout?

I think something ala FF13 would be my wish, to be honest - encounters that transition with victory fanfare and all, but not full real time action.

 

[Squirrel Emperor]

I think the big one I'm curious about is how a real-time action battle system would effect the world map.

They could make it like Type-0 where there is still a world map to battle map transition and you can freely control your characters on the battle map. But this only makes sense if they weren't worried about the world map being 1:1 scale and wanted to be faithful to the original as much as possible.

So the question is do they want to create something more realistic and at 1:1 scale? Or do they not care if characters are the same size as town icons on the world map?

If they go realistic, it'd probably be something like FFXII or FFXV's world map. This would allow for enough space for real-time action combat. You couldn't do that on FFVII's world map as is. It's too small and just wouldn't feel right. But if FFVII's world map is that important, then what I said about Type-0's setup would probably be the way to go.

When I think about FFVII's world map, the only thing I can recall that's important about it is Highwind, the airship. But I'm trying to remember if it had any other importance. It could be one of those things that gets sacrificed in favor of creating a 1:1 scale world map.

 

[Crystal Power]

I was curious too, if they use a 1:1 scale world map then what would happen to the features that was used on the traditional world map. As @Squirrel Emperor mention there was the Highwind. There was also Chocobo, the submarine that's tied to things such as Emerald Weapon. How would they add these in a 1:1 scale world map?

Tbh @APZonerunner I did not think of that but if they use an encounter system similar to FF13, it would be possible to keep victory fanfares and poses. So that might be the best way to go imo.

 

[ScienceNonfiction]

Well if they're going to utilize fully the technology available today they're going to have to redesign most of the game. I think it's safe to assume that it'll be a "modernized" version of VII rather than a straight recreation, so I wouldn't be surprised if things like the world map are scrapped in favor of something more "modern." Of course they'd have to rethink things like the airship/other vehicles and some of the Weapons should that turn out to be the case. Who knows what will happen though?

I think they walk a fine line in terms of how faithful to the original it has to be. Of course it's impossible to please everybody, and in the end it's probably more about whether or not it "feels" like Final Fantasy VII rather than how close in design it is to the original. But that's a tough concept/feeling to grasp for both the developers and the players. Remaking this game seems incredibly challenging. It's probably more difficult than making an entirely new FF from the ground up.

 

[Eliotlienthal]

Regarding the battle system I believe the best approach would be something along the lines of XIII: the enemies are visible on the screen and you can avoid them if you wish, but there's still a screen transition to a new space where the battle occurs, there's a battle theme, a victory pose and the iconic victory fanfare. A fast-paced turn-based battle system like XIII or X-2 seems to be the way to go, since they're more modern and at the same time they can keep the qualities of the old VII battle system.

As for the overworld I think they should follow something along the lines of Type-0, but of course with better graphics and textures. Therefore they could keep the original "exploration feel" of the old game and go full 3D environments with high quality graphics as soon as you enter a city/dungeon. A 1:1 scale worldmap seems extremely difficult to create and I think the development process would take a LOOOONG time it they decide to do it this way and I really don't want another VersusXIII/XV dev cycle!