FFXV discussion thread [No Spoilers]

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Nova

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Jul 14, 2015
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Yup. It definitely seems that the multiple installments plan was more in lines of Nomura being constrained (again) with limited time pre-release instead of an actual envisioned idea. I also destinctively remember reading somewhere a direct quote from Nomura confirming that "FFXV won't have sequels" weeks after the multi-game announcement from E3 2013 on wikipedia (have a hard time finding it and so i could be incorrect).

The interesting thing about original Insomnia invasion though, is that aside from obviously not being able to fit the content in the game, Tabata confirmed last year that it apparently would have took the team an additional three more years just to create the whole setpiece scenario playable in-game.

Going by that, its probable that even entertaining the possibility of them being able to include the setpiece before the end of 2014 is a bit of a stretch imo.
 
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Ikkin

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Oct 30, 2016
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Yup. It definitely seems that the multiple installments plan was more in lines of Nomura being constrained (again) with limited time pre-release instead of an actual envisioned idea. I also destinctively remember reading somewhere a direct quote from Nomura confirming that "FFXV won't have sequels" weeks after the multi-game announcement from E3 2013 (have a hard time finding it and so i could be incorrect).

The interesting thing about original Insomnia invasion though, is that aside from obviously not being able to fit the content in the game, Tabata confirmed last year that it apparently would have took the team an additional three more years just to create the whole setpiece scenario playable in-game.

Going by that, its probable that even entertaining the possibility of them being able to include the setpiece before the end of 2014 is a bit of a stretch imo.
I thought he said something more along the lines that there wouldn't be a "to be continued" feel to XV and that it'd end with a proper climax, even though there would have been more games. (From Siliconera: “In the trailer, there was a line that read “A World of the Versus Epic,” which suggests that it will be part of an epic. While Final Fantasy XV will have one climax, as a story, we plan to continue it further.")

If "XV-1" was intended to end in Altissia, I could see something like Noct (having powered up his Armiger-equivalent over the course of the game) forcing a showdown with the bulk of the Niflheim invasion force in Altissia and driving them back to their own continent with the help of Leviathan -- it'd be climactic and satisfying even if the Crystal was still in Niflheim. And maybe Stella would have been revealed as the mouthpiece for an FNC-related entity *coughEtrocough* and explain Noct's powers before disappearing, explaining some of Tabata's comments about her role not being big enough and being too caught up in FNC to work as-is. That'd be about as conclusive as KHI or KHII while leaving room for a shift to a different continent and heavier FNC influence moving forward.

Anyway, with regards to Insomnia, I think Nomura could have pulled it off if only because he seems to have retained the 2011-2012 PS3 assets to a much greater degree than Tabata was willing to do. Tabata's three-year estimate would have almost certainly included a massive amount of time spent remaking assets that had already been made in higher quality -- probably one of the worst things the team could have done under the circumstances.
 

Nova

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I was more referring to the the quote i described after that statement actually lol. Probably was either a mistranslation or something that got mixed up with another existing source on the same year. All i can remember reading it was from wikipedia before the content of the game's main page got seemingly edited.

Isn't that assuming that the original 2011-2012 assets would have been viable to utilize as is for a 2014 release, despite Nomura commenting in 2013 from a famitsu interview about utilizing the Luminous Engine for XV despite the engine itself still being in development back then?
 

Ikkin

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I was more referring to the the quote i described after that statement actually lol. Probably was either a mistranslation or something that got mixed up with another existing source on the same year. All i can remember reading it was from wikipedia before the content of the game's main page got seemingly edited.
Ah, okay. I'm not sure I remember that. Can you look at the edit history on the Wikipedia page?

Isn't that assuming that the original 2011-2012 assets would have been viable to utilize as is for a 2014 release, despite Nomura commenting in 2013 from a famitsu interview about utilizing the Luminous Engine for XV despite the engine itself still being in development back then?
Assets are usually engine-agnostic (hence why Garry's Mod -- which uses Valve's Source Engine -- can be paired with Squenix assets), and the 2013 trailer looked like it used a lot of old PS3 assets.

And, for what it's worth, I thought Nomura mentioned using Luminous lighting on Versus XIII in 2011 or 2012. Famitsu said they were shown screenshots that blew them away but couldn't print them, lol.
 
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Ikkin

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Found it. Right in the "possible sequels" section where it mentioned the "no plans for sequels" from Nomura via Japan Expo 2013. Thats definitely the one i distinctly remembered reading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Final_Fantasy_XV&oldid=602145516
Finaland & FFDream: Nomura-san can we imagine that you’ll work on Final Fantasy XV-2 just after finishing the first one?

Tetsuya Nomura: Obviously we haven’t decided yet. We don’t have any concrete plan for a future sequel of FFXV, it would be good if we could do that but we can’t announce it or say anything into detail for the moment so wait for future informations.


Ah, okay. I think that might just be a case of Nomura not being able to make concrete statements about sequels years before anyone would even be assigned to work on one. I wouldn't be surprised if you could find similar statements regarding KHIII prior to the 2013 announcement trailer, even though it was obvious to everyone that KHIII was going to be made.
 

Nova

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Theoretically speaking, the way i read it was more in the lines of them deciding to scale back from multi-games to a single standalone title.

While it makes sense that he can't confirm what isn't in works in the first place, the thing I've had in my mind for a while now was that of a possibility of Nomura being slowly phased out throughout the rest of 2013 post-E3 while internally discussing additions, preservations, & changes with Tabata & co. Ergo him going along with plans for the 2016 release while leaving the rest to Tabata would free Nomura up on handling KH3/FFVII:R (since we know that his directoral removal was a company wide decision).

I know its probably likely that the reboot truly took affect in 2014 after Tabata became sole director in December 2013, but i don't feel that rules out the probability of the groundwork that we currently have in the base game being tangible since 4 years ago.
 
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xXShuyaXx

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May 25, 2016
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Theoretically speaking,the way i read it was more in the lines of them deciding to scale back from multi-games to a single standalone title.

While it makes sense that he can't confirm what isn't in works in the first place, the thing I've had in my mind for a while now was that of a possibility of Nomura being slowly phased out throughout the rest of 2013 post-E3 while internally discussing additions, preservations, & changes with Tabata & co. Ergo him going along with plans for the 2016 release while leaving the rest to Tabata would free Nomura up on handling KH3/FFVII:R (since we know that his directoral removal was a company wide decision).

I know its probably likely that the reboot truly took affect in 2014 after Tabata became sole director in December 2013, but i don't feel that rules out the probability of the groundwork that we currently have in the base game being tangible since 4 years ago.
It was said in a interview (Japanese) that Nomura was still around in 2014. It isn't clear who was Director at this time, but Tabata claimed it was Nomura's idea to change Stella to Luna.

I don't have any links for these, as it was from a few years ago, but from my understanding, Nomura was still very much involved with the project until 2014. I personally think it was a case where, before leaving the project, Nomura made the final adjustments to the game and story, like changing Stella and left the completion of the project to Tabata with what remained.

The initial talks for Kingsglaive started in 2014, so it's quote possible that Nomura was also involved in the project n some way.

At the end of the day, it may be possible that FFXV today is still very much what Nomura left off. And when Tabata says that things haven't changed much, it might be true. It is different from what we initially saw in 2006 up till 2013, but 2013 looks pretty much the same as what we have today and Nomura was still head at that time. A lot of things have changed from 2006, but it may very well be Nomura himself who made all the changes.

But we will never know the story.
 

Nova

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Good point actually...it would make the late 2014 announcement of the directoral shift look undeviating since i found it kinda strange that no one made reports leaking Nomura giving the role to Tabata in late 2013.
 

Jenova

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Oct 28, 2013
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I wouldn't be surprised if Tabata was telling the truth about nothing being drastically changed since Nomura's departure. All the ideas in XV scream Nomura. Even the changes people don't like (*cough*Luna*cough*). Where Tabata hit rough patches was execution. The only person who is able to actualize Nomura's goals and ideas is Nomura. It's why the earlier Kingdom Hearts games are so innovative and wholesome as he is the sole director. Had someone else come in and directed in Nomura's stead the games wouldn't have been as well received as they are now. Or at least that's what I would assume based on track record. Anyway, a lot of Nomura's ideas and concepts are very unorthodox, artistic and sometimes flat-out odd. I remember in one instance where he shared that XV almost became a musical on a whim of his. Tabata, on the other hand, is a very grounded person. He looks at games in a more logical and frank manner. His previous two works before XV, Type-0 and Crisis Core, exemplify this in almost every one of their respective aspects. From Type-0's very simplistic and straightforward battle system to the dark , mature, somber nature of Crisis Core's narrative. Tabata likes to keep things easy to understand for the layman in order to meet a happy medium with everyone. While Nomura on the other hand aims to paint a blank canvas in any which way he wishes. With his feet, his tongue or maybe even leaving the canvas blank. He's always looking to push boundaries and discover new frontiers within the medium of video games. Although the fanbase has greatly cheapened the term, he is truly a visionary in every sense of the word. However, visionaries very often clash with realists. I'm sure that's what happened with Tabata taking over for Nomura during the development of XV. Not that they had a altercation as many speculate, but Tabata likely realized very quickly that a lot of what Nomura wanted to achieve with XV just wasn't feasible with the limitations in play. A great example being the Leviathan fight. The vision of that fight was basically to make a scene out of Advent Children completely playable from beginning to end. Almost every hardcore Final Fantasy fan's dream. I bet it's very plausible that its existence was one of many main factors in the game having trouble getting off the ground. The technology just didn't (arguably still doesn't) exist for the concept Nomura was shooting for to be very realized in a reasonable time frame. (And considering his self-proclaimed perfectionist nature, he would have sat on the game until every detail could be done to his liking. Meaning waiting for technology to catch up to his ideas for who knows how long.) Enter Tabata. Deadlines exists. Shareholders must be pleased. Fan demand is waning. Executives want answers. He gets the scene completed to ease tensions, but it ends up a complete and total downgrade from what Nomura has envisioned and likely instructed Tabata to do. However, Tabata is a realist. He couldn't wait for the technology. Time was too short to aim for perfection. Money was in all probability running thin. He decides to deliver results over achieving artistry. You can pretty much apply this routine to most facets of the game. (Mainly regarding narrative.) Leading into the massive spiral of complains consumers have about the game which need not be repeated to avoid burning time. Thankfully, poor execution can be easily remedied with planned and focused labor so long as the core concepts and ideas of a project are strong. Which with XV thanks to Nomura's vision they are. As well with Tabata being a realist has on lockdown the focus on achieving results and delivering a better product with strategic labor.
 
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Bazztek

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May 26, 2014
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I recall them saying in 2016 that Kingsglaive started 3 years ago, so Kingsglaive started in 2013.

Edit: At the Uncovered event in March 2016 it was Aaron Paul who said it started 3 years ago, but Nozue said in the stage panel after it that Kingslglaive started 2 and a half years ago, which puts Kingsglaive at around October 2013 for when it'd have started.
 
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Ikkin

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Oct 30, 2016
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It is different from what we initially saw in 2006 up till 2013, but 2013 looks pretty much the same as what we have today and Nomura was still head at that time. A lot of things have changed from 2006, but it may very well be Nomura himself who made all the changes.
I wouldn't say what we have is the same as 2013, because 90% of what we were given in 2013 came from the Insomnia invasion. (Some of the Altissia invasion was shown as well, but I'm not sure that we actually got any dialogue from it.) It's not impossible for Nomura to have been involved in the transition, but that's not the same as the current version being "pretty much the same as what we have today."

What I find really amusing is that the version we got is nearly as close to the 2006 teasers as what we were shown in 2013. There might not have been a showdown with Niflheim soldiers in front of the Citadel, but most of the motifs have been retained as much as if not more than what we knew of the 2013 incarnation -- the moon, nighttime, streaks of black tears, warping, Armiger, cars, Noct sleeping on the throne, Somnus, the engine blade, changing eye and hair color when using abilities, crystals that appear when using magic, "fantasy based on reality," and I'm probably forgetting some. Designs aside, I'd argue that the 2006 trailer for Versus XIII is more representative of XV in 2016 than the first teaser for Birth by Sleep is of that game's released form
though Nomura's gone and made more sense of it retroactively by having Aqua help Mickey acquire the Kingdom Key D, which... if that's what he was hinting at back in 2005, the man is a master of multidimensional chess. o_0;
 

Bazztek

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May 26, 2014
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Nomura definitely just makes things off the cuff, Deep Dive secret ending in KH1 and BBS secret ending in KH2 were literally just story/CGI concepts that existed in a vacuum at the time.
 
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Nova

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Jul 14, 2015
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Another question, regarding the crystal, was there always meant to be only one? Or were their more from different kingdoms back then until it was minimized to a single crystal given to Lucis? (since draft changes and all).

I recall the E3 2013 trailer having dialogue mentioning "Nifilheim waging war for crystals", unless i'm wrong.
 

Bazztek

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May 26, 2014
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Another question, regarding the crystal, was there always meant to be only one? Or were their more from different kingdoms back then until it was minimized to a single crystal given to Lucis? (since draft changes and all).

I recall the E3 2013 trailer having dialogue mentioning "Nifilheim waging war for crystals", unless i'm wrong.
I'm not sure on that either. 2013 trailer has Ignis saying "Niflheim has already waged war for crystals in Solheim, Tenebrae and Accordo."

But the Cosmogony states that Bahamut gifted man with a Crystal, but then another Cosmogony passage says "Long live thy Line and these Stones divine, for the Night when All comes to Naught." Which kinda of implies multiple Crystals ("these stones", not "the stone").

Then the official guide only mentions Niflheim waging war on and conquering Solheim, conquering Tenebrae and annexing Accordo after years of war, but nothing about those three nations having a Crystal.
 
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Ikkin

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Nomura definitely just makes things off the cuff, Deep Dive secret ending in KH1 and BBS secret ending in KH2 were literally just story/CGI concepts that existed in a vacuum at the time.
He makes things off the cuff, but he's usually pretty good at figuring out ways to ensure that they appear in some form or another in the final game. Deep Dive was a great example of that, as is the KHIIFM+ version of the Birth by sleep teaser. The first BbS teaser... not so much. XD;

Another question, regarding the crystal, was there always meant to be only one? Or were their more from different kingdoms back then until it was minimized to a single crystal given to Lucis? (since draft changes and all).

I recall the E3 2013 trailer having dialogue mentioning "Nifilheim waging war for crystals", unless i'm wrong.
Originally, each kingdom was meant to have had its own Crystal, with all but Lucis' having been previously destroyed thanks to Niflheim's belligerance. The post-FNC version of XV simplified it so there was only ever one Crystal, which was given to Lucis.

It's possible that the crystals always had a similar purpose to the XV Crystal, though; in the 2011 trailer for Versus,
one of the title cards reads, "An act of love by the last king," following a speech by Regis where he says he will be the last king. If we assume that Nomura's version would have allowed for any king of Lucis to activate its full power at the cost of their life and that Regis was killed before he could do so, Nomura's Noctis and ours could have shared the same exact fate.
 
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Storm

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Nomura definitely just makes things off the cuff, Deep Dive secret ending in KH1 and BBS secret ending in KH2 were literally just story/CGI concepts that existed in a vacuum at the time.
i remember to be dissapointed that the dark city of the teaser turned out to be all colorful in KHII.
 

xXShuyaXx

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May 25, 2016
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I recall them saying in 2016 that Kingsglaive started 3 years ago, so Kingsglaive started in 2013.

Edit: At the Uncovered event in March 2016 it was Aaron Paul who said it started 3 years ago, but Nozue said in the stage panel after it that Kingslglaive started 2 and a half years ago, which puts Kingsglaive at around October 2013 for when it'd have started.
Well that just means there was a even higher chance that Nomura was very much involved with the project.