Nomura vs Tabata, how well/bad they handle their projects

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Jenova

SeeD A-Class
Oct 28, 2013
679
518
#41
Let's just hope FFXVI doesn't have any major issues with the team exploding internally going forward.
Kind of a naive sentiment. Murphy's Law will ensure something will go wrong in any development cycle. It's just does Square-Enix have the necessary management strategies in place to tackle issues when they arrive? Maybe they should take notes from Nintendo. They always seems to manage their development cycles extremely well in-spite of setbacks.
 
Likes: Nova
May 26, 2014
419
938
#42
1) 99% of scenarios or scenes from the 2006-2013 trailers.

2) Aldercapt, Ravus, Stella/Luna, you could also count Regis/Glauca since they were cut from the game.

3) Are you trying to act incompetent on purpose here? Go watch all the trailers from 2014-to the game's launch and count how many scenes/areas/gameplay elements got cut. These were the years when the game was under Tabata, he knew exactly what they were showcasing, and yet so much of it got cut.

4) Sounds like you're blinded by Nomura hate and have nothing of substance to say when people criticize the way the project turned out under Tabata.



You're right, and in fact I'd even say SE are mostly at fault.
What scenarios or scenes from 2006 existed in 2011? What "scenario" or "scenes" from 2008 existed in 2013? What scenario from 2010 or 2011 still existed in 2013? The hell are you even talking about? There was no story written back in 2006, it didn't even have a script until 2010 at earliest and it was CONFIRMED by Roberto Ferrari that the story was changing every 3 months and was never a defined story, even well into 2013 when Nomura was still in charge. And the character of Stella completely changed from 2011 to who she was in 2013.

How was Iedolas Aldercapt ever stated as being an "important" character to the game? We literally saw him for the first time ever in 2011 for barely even 5 seconds and he didn't even have a word of dialog, in 2013 they basically reshowed that same scene reworked with only a few setences and one single other scene of him, both of which were reworked into Kingsglaive anyway, same with Luna's role in Insomnia and Regis and Glauca's stuff too. They were never even set from the beginging so what the actual fuck are you even crying about here?

Also how isn't Luna still important to the game? She has more screentime than your average Zelda has while effectively being the "Zelda" of XV's world, Regis isn't any less important in the final game than he was ever porported to be, same with Ravus.

Seriously why are you talking out of your ass so much? Is this some weird trait that every single braindead Nomura fanboy has or something? What gameplay elements from 2014 to launch was cut? What areas got cut that Tabata showed in his trailers? Also just so you know that train station from January 2015 was not shown by Tabata let alone in a trailer, that was shown at Taipei Game Show by the XPEC devs as a surprise to Tabata who had no idea they were even going to show that to the public. What scenes got removed that weren't outright stated as being removed or changed into different scenes, or clearly just reworked versions of similar scenes? Luna being in Altissia in 2014 got changed into a different scene of Luna in Altissia in the final game, the guys meeting Cindy at a Coernix gas station was just moved to being at Hammerhead since that original scene was just made for demo purposes. You do almost know every game does that? Create stuff specifically for demo purposes? You know pretty much every KH does that too in its trailers, right? Even stuff in KH3 from 2013 has changed to what we are seeing now.


2014 trailer showed them driving in Duscae, running around in Duscae, fighting Garula's, fighting Goblins in the cave, Noctis warpstriking, doing link attacks, fighting Niflheim troops in Duscae, we also saw the first look at Adamantoise and Catoblepas's there, and had dialog of the bros talking about Luna being in Altissia and with the dialog in the trailer hinting that Noctis and Luna have a romantic relationship of somesort, as well as the radio playing that was talking about the peace treaty which is just like the radio report that plays in the actual game prior to it happening, while that scene was just reworked to happen while they are pushing the car back in Leide instead of when they are midway to Duscae.

That "red" area was not an actual "red" area at all either, it was simply just the original weather affect for the Starscourge, and that big structure is in Chapter 10, while in Chapter 13 is where you see those flying Daemons outside Gralea, as well as in Comrades, with you seeing the sky slowly turning red during the credits before it became the dark green effect it was in the end.

In 2015 Tabata straight up stated that the Insomnia invasion stuff and things to do with Stella was changed, but how in the actual fuck is that "disrepescting" the original "vision? What "vision? You mean how Nomura wanted to turn FFXV into a musical because he saw Les Mis in 2012? Wow such a visionary!

No, I'm just sick of Nomura/Versus fanboys like you constantly talking out of your ass and not having a clue what you are even talking about.
 
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stolas

ShinRa SOLDIER
Feb 20, 2018
156
256
#43
What scenarios or scenes from 2006 existed in 2011? What "scenario" or "scenes" from 2008 existed in 2013? What scenario from 2010 or 2011 still existed in 2013? The hell are you even talking about? There was no story written back in 2006, it didn't even have a script until 2010 at earliest and it was CONFIRMED by Roberto Ferrari that the story was changing every 3 months and was never a defined story, even well into 2013 when Nomura was still in charge. And the character of Stella completely changed from 2011 to who she was in 2013.

How was Iedolas Aldercapt ever stated as being an "important" character to the game? We literally saw him for the first time ever in 2011 for barely even 5 seconds and he didn't even have a word of dialog, in 2013 they basically reshowed that same scene reworked with only a few setences and one single other scene of him, both of which were reworked into Kingsglaive anyway, same with Luna's role in Insomnia and Regis and Glauca's stuff too. They were never even set from the beginging so what the actual fuck are you even crying about here?

Also how isn't Luna still important to the game? She has more screentime than your average Zelda has while effectively being the "Zelda" of XV's world, Regis isn't any less important in the final game than he was ever porported to be, same with Ravus.

Seriously why are you talking out of your ass so much? Is this some weird trait that every single braindead Nomura fanboy has or something? What gameplay elements from 2014 to launch was cut? What areas got cut that Tabata showed in his trailers? Also just so you know that train station from January 2015 was not shown by Tabata let alone in a trailer, that was shown at Taipei Game Show by the XPEC devs as a surprise to Tabata who had no idea they were even going to show that to the public. What scenes got removed that weren't outright stated as being removed or changed into different scenes, or clearly just reworked versions of similar scenes? Luna being in Altissia in 2014 got changed into a different scene of Luna in Altissia in the final game, the guys meeting Cindy at a Coernix gas station was just moved to being at Hammerhead since that original scene was just made for demo purposes. You do almost know every game does that? Create stuff specifically for demo purposes? You know pretty much every KH does that too in its trailers, right? Even stuff in KH3 from 2013 has changed to what we are seeing now.


2014 trailer showed them driving in Duscae, running around in Duscae, fighting Garula's, fighting Goblins in the cave, Noctis warpstriking, doing link attacks, fighting Niflheim troops in Duscae, we also saw the first look at Adamantoise and Catoblepas's there, and had dialog of the bros talking about Luna being in Altissia and with the dialog in the trailer hinting that Noctis and Luna have a romantic relationship of somesort, as well as the radio playing that was talking about the peace treaty which is just like the radio report that plays in the actual game prior to it happening, while that scene was just reworked to happen while they are pushing the car back in Leide instead of when they are midway to Duscae.

That "red" area was not an actual "red" area at all either, it was simply just the original weather affect for the Starscourge, and that big structure is in Chapter 10, while in Chapter 13 is where you see those flying Daemons outside Gralea, as well as in Comrades, with you seeing the sky slowly turning red during the credits before it became the dark green effect it was in the end.

In 2015 Tabata straight up stated that the Insomnia invasion stuff and things to do with Stella was changed, but how in the actual fuck is that "disrepescting" the original "vision? What "vision? You mean how Nomura wanted to turn FFXV into a musical because he saw Les Mis in 2012? Wow such a visionary!

No, I'm just sick of Nomura/Versus fanboys like you constantly talking out of your ass and not having a clue what you are even talking about.
The problem with a lot of your arguments is that you're acting as if you have insider information or that you some how know exactly what happens in a production pipeline. None of us can honestly say that we know anything, other than the information that has been sourced. Secondly, the issue with what you showed was that most of those scenes that were "changed" in BBS were just repurposed or re-polished for release. Hence why there's a split screen in most of it. That didn't happen in XV, all those scenes that were animated, rendered out (Ex. The Dawn trailer, even scenes like the imperial dreadnoughts invading Altissia, etc.) were cut and never inserted back in. The youtuber Yong Yea did a really amazing countdown going through the whole FFVXIII/ FFXV development cycle before FFXV's release. You should check it out to see how many scenes that are just cut, not repurpose or changed just starting from the Ps4 announcement trailer. The biggest issue with FFXV other than it's really badly done copy and paste fetch quests is the lack of meat on the story and that it's all pay off and no build up (which is also a very common criticism among reviews). Or story arcs are just blatantly missing. Why is Jared more significant to Gladiolus than his father? Again, why was Ifrit never mentioned in story and it took a year for a slide show to be patched in? Those scenes like the Dawn trailer of Noct and Regis needed to be in the game to build their relationship. This is one of Tabata's biggest faults as a director and can be found in all of his games. In any vanilla KH you get all the basic story arcs for the main cast (whether or not you personally agree).
 
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Vallen

AVALANCHE Warrior
Mar 4, 2018
258
572
24
#44
What scenarios or scenes from 2006 existed in 2011? What "scenario" or "scenes" from 2008 existed in 2013? What scenario from 2010 or 2011 still existed in 2013? The hell are you even talking about? There was no story written back in 2006, it didn't even have a script until 2010 at earliest and it was CONFIRMED by Roberto Ferrari that the story was changing every 3 months and was never a defined story, even well into 2013 when Nomura was still in charge. And the character of Stella completely changed from 2011 to who she was in 2013.

How was Iedolas Aldercapt ever stated as being an "important" character to the game? We literally saw him for the first time ever in 2011 for barely even 5 seconds and he didn't even have a word of dialog, in 2013 they basically reshowed that same scene reworked with only a few setences and one single other scene of him, both of which were reworked into Kingsglaive anyway, same with Luna's role in Insomnia and Regis and Glauca's stuff too. They were never even set from the beginging so what the actual fuck are you even crying about here?

Also how isn't Luna still important to the game? She has more screentime than your average Zelda has while effectively being the "Zelda" of XV's world, Regis isn't any less important in the final game than he was ever porported to be, same with Ravus.

Seriously why are you talking out of your ass so much? Is this some weird trait that every single braindead Nomura fanboy has or something? What gameplay elements from 2014 to launch was cut? What areas got cut that Tabata showed in his trailers? Also just so you know that train station from January 2015 was not shown by Tabata let alone in a trailer, that was shown at Taipei Game Show by the XPEC devs as a surprise to Tabata who had no idea they were even going to show that to the public. What scenes got removed that weren't outright stated as being removed or changed into different scenes, or clearly just reworked versions of similar scenes? Luna being in Altissia in 2014 got changed into a different scene of Luna in Altissia in the final game, the guys meeting Cindy at a Coernix gas station was just moved to being at Hammerhead since that original scene was just made for demo purposes. You do almost know every game does that? Create stuff specifically for demo purposes? You know pretty much every KH does that too in its trailers, right? Even stuff in KH3 from 2013 has changed to what we are seeing now.


2014 trailer showed them driving in Duscae, running around in Duscae, fighting Garula's, fighting Goblins in the cave, Noctis warpstriking, doing link attacks, fighting Niflheim troops in Duscae, we also saw the first look at Adamantoise and Catoblepas's there, and had dialog of the bros talking about Luna being in Altissia and with the dialog in the trailer hinting that Noctis and Luna have a romantic relationship of somesort, as well as the radio playing that was talking about the peace treaty which is just like the radio report that plays in the actual game prior to it happening, while that scene was just reworked to happen while they are pushing the car back in Leide instead of when they are midway to Duscae.

That "red" area was not an actual "red" area at all either, it was simply just the original weather affect for the Starscourge, and that big structure is in Chapter 10, while in Chapter 13 is where you see those flying Daemons outside Gralea, as well as in Comrades, with you seeing the sky slowly turning red during the credits before it became the dark green effect it was in the end.

In 2015 Tabata straight up stated that the Insomnia invasion stuff and things to do with Stella was changed, but how in the actual fuck is that "disrepescting" the original "vision? What "vision? You mean how Nomura wanted to turn FFXV into a musical because he saw Les Mis in 2012? Wow such a visionary!

No, I'm just sick of Nomura/Versus fanboys like you constantly talking out of your ass and not having a clue what you are even talking about.
^what @stolas said.

You got banned from Era recently bazztek, I wonder why, you seem like such a nice guy.
 
Last edited:
May 26, 2014
419
938
#46
The problem with a lot of your arguments is that you're acting as if you have insider information or that you some how know exactly what happens in a production pipeline. None of us can honestly say that we know anything, other than the information that has been sourced. Secondly, the issue with what you showed was that most of those scenes that were "changed" in BBS were just repurposed or re-polished for release. Hence why there's a split screen in most of it. That didn't happen in XV, all those scenes that were animated, rendered out (Ex. The Dawn trailer, even scenes like the imperial dreadnoughts invading Altissia, etc.) were cut and never inserted back in. The youtuber Yong Yea did a really amazing countdown going through the whole FFVXIII/ FFXV development cycle before FFXV's release. You should check it out to see how many scenes that are just cut, not repurpose or changed just starting from the Ps4 announcement trailer. The biggest issue with FFXV other than it's really badly done copy and paste fetch quests is the lack of meat on the story and that it's all pay off and no build up (which is also a very common criticism among reviews). Or story arcs are just blatantly missing. Why is Jared more significant to Gladiolus than his father? Again, why was Ifrit never mentioned in story and it took a year for a slide show to be patched in? Those scenes like the Dawn trailer of Noct and Regis needed to be in the game to build their relationship. This is one of Tabata's biggest faults as a director and can be found in all of his games. In any vanilla KH you get all the basic story arcs for the main cast (whether or not you personally agree).
No I'm simply someone who actually followed the development of Versus and XV since the very start of its public reveal, whereas Versus fanboys like you and Vallen consistently pull shit straight out of your ass and make shit up about Versus and XV just so you can prop up Nomura for whatever reason. Things in FFXV trailers that Tabata showed from 2014 to the final game for the actual game were repurposed with other likewise scenes if they were even changed at all, the Dawn trailer was never stated as being a "game trailer" which is why it was even named "Dawn" trailer specifically with its own name like that, because it was created for the sake of being a trailer, much like the Omen trailer was too, the same way those 2006 and 2008 FF Versus XIII CG trailers were made simply as CG trailers and not actual things from a game that would have even been used in a game, like even if Versus was still made none of those CG scenes from 2006/2008 would have ever been used because every single character design had changed by 2010 and characters like Ardyn, Aranea, Cid, Cindy, Gentiana, Iris, Umbra, Verstael were not even created until 2010 at the earliest. And even one of the scenes from the Dawn trailer with Luna was redone for the game too, so was the meeting Cindy scene, so was Luna sitting in that room Altissia, so was Noctis and co camping, so was Noctis and co driving in Lestallum, so was Noctis and co in Duscae, so was Noctis going up against Titan who was about to step on him, so was Noctis and co fighting Aranea at a Niflheim base, so was Noctis walking inside the train while blizzard is blowing inside etc.

Hell I even made a recreation of the E3 2013 trailer using stuff from the final game and one scene from Kingsglaive, which itself was partially used in the final game anyway. And there is still like for like stuff following the same basic story beats that the game was presented to having with the same relationships between characters in the game as the 2013 trailer presented it as having.


That scene of the airships heading to Altissia was originally a Kingsglaive CG scene, it was shown in some behind the scenes footage as being a scrapped scene from Kingsglaive, and a scene similar to that was used in the final game only not as CG. I watched all of Yong Yea's vids and even corrected him on multiple things he got wrong because he was reading mistranslated interviews in the vids which he addressed in follow up vids. You really don't know what the hell you are even talking about.

They did a bunch of CG tests and had been doing them since 2013 well into 2014 and 2015, we only didn't know Kingsglaive was already in production all that time but it was, and that is what most of that CG was actually for.

In a 2016 bts vid they showed this CG of the airships flying and it was explicitly stated as actually being a part of Kingsglaive test CG.
https://giant.gfycat.com/TangibleFrenchFlyinglemur.webm

Same as this
https://giant.gfycat.com/WelldocumentedFrighteningBee.webm

In 2014 we saw an early version of that Airship flying to Altissia shot mixed in with the trailer, but that was before Kingsglaive had been announced but still well after it was into production.
https://giant.gfycat.com/TenseFrankBlackmamba.webm

XV has a ton of build up, it's the primary reason why the main four bros are so consistently and widespread praised and why the ending has so much emotional impact because of how well they are setup and how well it's payed off, seems like here again you really don't know what the hell you are talking about while you also have barely any understanding over the actual story in XV, let alone FF itself if you think that the sidequests in XV are somehow any different than the kind of things you did in older FFs.

What story arc is blatantly missing? Who ever said that Jared was important? Who ever said that Clarus was important? Why did Ifrit need to be mentioned to understand that he was an Astral, which is apparant from the Cosmogony book you read in Chapter 1 anyway? You do know that the update patch is literally just showing pages from the Cosmogony book, right? Not a "slide show", how is them adding in a scene like that or the one in Ch13v2 any different than FF7 adding in the scene of Cloud and Zack going to Midgar or the other scenes that were not in the Japanese launch version of FF7?

KH is so barebones compared to anything in XV that if you honestly think that any KH has as much story in it as XV has in just XV alone then you are completely and utterly talking out of your ass. Not a single character has any character development in KH1, Kairi has less screentime in KH1 than Luna does, the main villain for the KH franchise is not even properly introduced until a fucking PREQUEL on a handheld, Riku doesn't get any character development again until KH3D, Sora still has no character development, it took 5 games for Kairi to get any character development, and really all that happened was she now can use a Keyblade, like what the fuck? Even Talcott has more character development than that and he has less screentime than Kairi has.

^what @stolas said.

You got banned from Era recently bazztek, I wonder why, you seem like such a nice guy.
What does that have to do with anything? There's one thing that I'm done with tolerating and it's annoying Nomura/Versus/KH fanboys that constantly spout shit just to prop up Nomura while taking desperate pot shots any chance they can get at XV, because they're/you are still jealous that XV turned out better with Tabata than it ever would have under Nomura, and you literally cannot deal with that fact.
 
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Vallen

AVALANCHE Warrior
Mar 4, 2018
258
572
24
#47
There's no point arguing with you any further, the fact remains that the better looking XV under Nomura got canned due to SE's incompetent business management and the mediocre Tabata XV is what we're stuck with for eternity. I'm not here to prove anything to you, so be happy, I guess? But you can't change the opinions of the millions of FF fans that were unimpressed with what XV ultimately became/ended up.
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,890
4,768
27
#48
There's no point arguing with you any further, the fact remains that the better looking XV under Nomura got canned due to SE's incompetent business management and the mediocre Tabata XV is what we're stuck with for eternity. I'm not here to prove anything to you, so be happy, I guess? But you can't change the opinions of the millions of FF fans that were unimpressed with what XV ultimately became/ended up.
why omitting nomura's hand on the mess?
 
Last edited:
Aug 14, 2016
458
556
All over
#49
There's no point arguing with you any further, the fact remains that the better looking XV under Nomura got canned due to SE's incompetent business management and the mediocre Tabata XV is what we're stuck with for eternity. I'm not here to prove anything to you, so be happy, I guess? But you can't change the opinions of the millions of FF fans that were unimpressed with what XV ultimately became/ended up.
Citations necessary.
 
May 26, 2014
419
938
#50
the fact remains that the better looking XV under Nomura got canned due to SE's incompetent business management and the mediocre Tabata XV is what we're stuck with for eternity. I'm not here to prove anything to you,
What fact? You mean the fact that Nomura's version got canned and the superior Tabata stepped up and made a massive success that was better than anything Nomura ever showed as being an actual game? Like even in 2013 the only actual real "gameplay" stuff was from Tabata's own prototype build, Nomura didn't show anything that was an actual game in 2013. You're a prime example of why everyone is sick of annoying fucking Nomura fanboys. And you're clearly in denial about FFXV since it not only sold better than any other FF did within the same time period from release, but it also received more GOTY awards, and XV is consistently ranked in the top 5 best FFs in polls with 10s of thousands of votes in it. In reality the vocal minority of braindead Nomura fanboys screeching at the top of their lungs that "Nomura's vision™" was somehow sullied and Nomura is some sort of misunderstood genius have consistently proven how far their heads are up their own ass.

We limited the vote to the main, numbered Final Fantasy games. So, what comes out on top? Here's the ranking - most votes to least, winners up top:
  1. Final Fantasy VII
  2. Final Fantasy IX
  3. Final Fantasy VI
  4. Final Fantasy X
  5. Final Fantasy XV
  6. Final Fantasy VIII
  7. Final Fantasy XIV
  8. Final Fantasy XII
  9. Final Fantasy IV
  10. Final Fantasy XIII
  11. Final Fantasy V
  12. Final Fantasy XI
  13. Final Fantasy III
  14. Final Fantasy II
  15. Final Fantasy
https://www.rpgsite.net/feature/653...sy-series-ranked-as-voted-by-thousands-of-you

270. Final Fantasy XIII (#12 ranked FF)
244. Final Fantasy III (#11 ranked FF)
235. Final Fantasy XII (#10 ranked FF)
164. Final Fantasy XIV (#9th ranked FF)
146. Final Fantasy IV (#8th ranked FF)
128. Final Fantasy XI (#7th ranked FF)
97. Final Fantasy VIII (#6th ranked FF)
51. Final Fantasy XV (#5th ranked FF)
49. Final Fantasy IX (#4th ranked FF)
33. Final Fantasy X (#3rd ranked FF)
13. Final Fantasy VI (#2nd ranked FF)
7. Final Fantasy VII (#1st ranked FF)
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/feat...readers-choice-top-300-games-of-all-time.aspx



While XV also won GOTY in 2016 on Gamefaqs too, and was also considered by Sakaguchi and Shuhei Yoshida to be their GOTY for 2016 too.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6574-best-of-2016-game-of-the-year


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6576-best-of-2016-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote

https://www.dualshockers.com/final-...u-sakaguchi-picks-final-fantasy-xv-game-year/

No matter what vocal minority you cling to, you can't just sit there and unironically act as if you are somehow part of some "majority" of people somehow "dissapointed" with XV, just because whatever hugbox you spend you time in regurgitates the same tired shit doesn't make what you are saying true.
 
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T.O.T

Knight of Death
Feb 2, 2017
451
401
#51
But you can't change the opinions of the millions of FF fans that were unimpressed with what XV ultimately became/ended up.
That's not saying much honestly. Even within the FF fandom there were many hoping that the title would fail because it was so far off from the norm for the mainline series....which is hypocritical since the mainline series has embraced radical change for a long time now. But alas, some ignore history to run their own narrative. Then there were outsiders that went into the game blind that complained about things that ruined their experience which was their own fault in a lot of cases. For example, a person would complain about an aspect of a game they did not like which lead them to disliking the overall product. Said individual bought product on name branding alone, instead of doing research which actually would have gave out enough baseline information for the person to determine if the product was for them or not. Every FF mainline game will receive criticism; it comes with the territory of constantly changing things up and being a legacy IP. No matter how doom and gloom you try and paint things, objectively FFXV has been much better received than the FFXIII trilogy.

If you're been on the internet long enough, you'd know that something that "looks" good doesn't mean a lot at the end of the day. If you want outside examples you can just take a look at both Destiny games. Based on some of your prior responses, I have decided to block you.

What fact? You mean the fact that Nomura's version got canned and the superior Tabata stepped up and made a massive success that was better than anything Nomura ever showed as being an actual game?
While I am certainly a bigger supporter of Tabata than Nomura, I don't think Tabata in general is just straight up superior.
 

LeonBlade

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
Site Staff
Oct 25, 2013
1,989
1,776
27
Blossvale, New York
#52
I'm personally very disappointed with XV's story. I do understand your point on how it makes no sense that Jared is supposed to be treated as this important character and Clarus is simply forgotten. I get all of those things.

However, a lot of this back and forth is about Versus: a game that doesn't exist to public's eye in any form as we don't know the story, and XV which was completed.

I'm sorry, but bickering over opinions isn't going to lead anyone anywhere. You can spend days trying to argue an opinion, but no one is going to be swayed by that.

Talking about public opinion or showing polls doesn't matter. People will always disagree with each other. My gripes with XV are with the poor story telling, the awful combat system when in boss fights among other things. However, I don't put this on either Nomura or Tabata. I blame upper management in SQEX for rushing this game out the door when it wasn't ready. Versus could have easily just be left in the hands of Nomura to create and instead SQEX could have just focused on the next FF.

That isn't what happened though, and there's nothing that can be done about it.
 

stolas

ShinRa SOLDIER
Feb 20, 2018
156
256
#53
No I'm simply someone who actually followed the development of Versus and XV since the very start of its public reveal, whereas Versus fanboys like you and Vallen consistently pull shit straight out of your ass and make shit up about Versus and XV just so you can prop up Nomura for whatever reason. Things in FFXV trailers that Tabata showed from 2014 to the final game for the actual game were repurposed with other likewise scenes if they were even changed at all, the Dawn trailer was never stated as being a "game trailer" which is why it was even named "Dawn" trailer specifically with its own name like that, because it was created for the sake of being a trailer, much like the Omen trailer was too, the same way those 2006 and 2008 FF Versus XIII CG trailers were made simply as CG trailers and not actual things from a game that would have even been used in a game, like even if Versus was still made none of those CG scenes from 2006/2008 would have ever been used because every single character design had changed by 2010 and characters like Ardyn, Aranea, Cid, Cindy, Gentiana, Iris, Umbra, Verstael were not even created until 2010 at the earliest. And even one of the scenes from the Dawn trailer with Luna was redone for the game too, so was the meeting Cindy scene, so was Luna sitting in that room Altissia, so was Noctis and co camping, so was Noctis and co driving in Lestallum, so was Noctis and co in Duscae, so was Noctis going up against Titan who was about to step on him, so was Noctis and co fighting Aranea at a Niflheim base, so was Noctis walking inside the train while blizzard is blowing inside etc.

Hell I even made a recreation of the E3 2013 trailer using stuff from the final game and one scene from Kingsglaive, which itself was partially used in the final game anyway. And there is still like for like stuff following the same basic story beats that the game was presented to having with the same relationships between characters in the game as the 2013 trailer presented it as having.


That scene of the airships heading to Altissia was originally a Kingsglaive CG scene, it was shown in some behind the scenes footage as being a scrapped scene from Kingsglaive, and a scene similar to that was used in the final game only not as CG. I watched all of Yong Yea's vids and even corrected him on multiple things he got wrong because he was reading mistranslated interviews in the vids which he addressed in follow up vids. You really don't know what the hell you are even talking about.

They did a bunch of CG tests and had been doing them since 2013 well into 2014 and 2015, we only didn't know Kingsglaive was already in production all that time but it was, and that is what most of that CG was actually for.

In a 2016 bts vid they showed this CG of the airships flying and it was explicitly stated as actually being a part of Kingsglaive test CG.
https://giant.gfycat.com/TangibleFrenchFlyinglemur.webm

Same as this
https://giant.gfycat.com/WelldocumentedFrighteningBee.webm

In 2014 we saw an early version of that Airship flying to Altissia shot mixed in with the trailer, but that was before Kingsglaive had been announced but still well after it was into production.
https://giant.gfycat.com/TenseFrankBlackmamba.webm

XV has a ton of build up, it's the primary reason why the main four bros are so consistently and widespread praised and why the ending has so much emotional impact because of how well they are setup and how well it's payed off, seems like here again you really don't know what the hell you are talking about while you also have barely any understanding over the actual story in XV, let alone FF itself if you think that the sidequests in XV are somehow any different than the kind of things you did in older FFs.

What story arc is blatantly missing? Who ever said that Jared was important? Who ever said that Clarus was important? Why did Ifrit need to be mentioned to understand that he was an Astral, which is apparant from the Cosmogony book you read in Chapter 1 anyway? You do know that the update patch is literally just showing pages from the Cosmogony book, right? Not a "slide show", how is them adding in a scene like that or the one in Ch13v2 any different than FF7 adding in the scene of Cloud and Zack going to Midgar or the other scenes that were not in the Japanese launch version of FF7?

KH is so barebones compared to anything in XV that if you honestly think that any KH has as much story in it as XV has in just XV alone then you are completely and utterly talking out of your ass. Not a single character has any character development in KH1, Kairi has less screentime in KH1 than Luna does, the main villain for the KH franchise is not even properly introduced until a fucking PREQUEL on a handheld, Riku doesn't get any character development again until KH3D, Sora still has no character development, it took 5 games for Kairi to get any character development, and really all that happened was she now can use a Keyblade, like what the fuck? Even Talcott has more character development than that and he has less screentime than Kairi has.


What does that have to do with anything? There's one thing that I'm done with tolerating and it's annoying Nomura/Versus/KH fanboys that constantly spout shit just to prop up Nomura while taking desperate pot shots any chance they can get at XV, because they're/you are still jealous that XV turned out better with Tabata than it ever would have under Nomura, and you literally cannot deal with that fact.
Because, it's called story telling. You need to set the story and establish certain arcs so that it can be successful. Maybe, strictly looking at Square's products is a bad example. Look at how Pixar tells a story. Look how they set up a character arc. Throwing things in and never explaining them is bad story telling. Again, this is a very, very common complaint about FFXV when this was reviewed by other gamers/ podcasters. This was not the same criticism that was found when a single KH entry was reviewed. Yet I'm not saying that KH story is in anyway perfect. Then again your argument is reaching when you state FFXV story is more complete than a KH entry.
Also lol at me being a Versus fan boy. How could I be a fan boy of something that was never made? You need to cool it with the assumptions. To clarify something for you: out of the 12 FF mainline series games I have played FFXV is in my top 5. Also, to clarify the reason why this conversation started was because you were offended by me stating that Nomura's franchise is technically complete on launch the only reason why we get Final Mixes/ International versions was because of the long time between initial release of those games and localization time. This of course makes sense Nomura wouldn't do a FM or season pass if the release dates are so close. Instead you took it as a personal attack as if I had directly insulted something you made yourself.
 
Likes: Vallen
May 26, 2014
419
938
#54
Because, it's called story telling. You need to set the story and establish certain arcs so that it can be successful. Maybe, strictly looking at Square's products is a bad example. Look at how Pixar tells a story. Look how they set up a character arc. Throwing things in and never explaining them is bad story telling. Again, this is a very, very common complaint about FFXV when this was reviewed by other gamers/ podcasters. This was not the same criticism that was found when a single KH entry was reviewed. Yet I'm not saying that KH story is in anyway perfect. Then again your argument is reaching when you state FFXV story is more complete than a KH entry.
Also lol at me being a Versus fan boy. How could I be a fan boy of something that was never made? You need to cool it with the assumptions. To clarify something for you: out of the 12 FF mainline series games I have played FFXV is in my top 5. Also, to clarify the reason why this conversation started was because you were offended by me stating that Nomura's franchise is technically complete on launch the only reason why we get Final Mixes/ International versions was because of the long time between initial release of those games and localization time. This of course makes sense Nomura wouldn't do a FM or season pass if the release dates are so close. Instead you took it as a personal attack as if I had directly insulted something you made yourself.
This is really ironic considering you are trying to prop up KH and Nomura yet you are going on about "story telling", as if Nomura somehow does a beter job in his shitty KH games than what XV did or what Crisis Core did or even what Type-0 did, especially compared to BBS which had a garbage splintered story that just felt like filler for the most part.

The main of the game is set, it's literally the most core thing you see the entire game with the brotherhood and bonds of the main four bros, you see this strengthened in every aspect of the games design not only from combat but through camping, through banter, through animations, through camp events, through the story, through dialogue, how their dynamic works and how effectively strong the ending was is specifically because of how well that is set up and delivered during the course of the game. You are going on about some completely tangential shit that was never once porported as being the main focus of the game let alone even an actual focus. You keep clinging to these "other gamers", who are fuck are you talking about? Random dipshits that didn't pay attention to the story and have no clue what they are talking about? Or you who also doesnt' know what you are talking about? I'm not reaching in the slighted when saying XV is more complete than any KH entry, anyone that isn't a braindead Nomura fanboy like you can see that it is. Again Luna has more screentime than Kairi does, every main bro in XV has character development in XV while none of the characters in KH1 have any character development, the main villain has a clear arc in FFXV while you don't even meet the actual main villain for the KH series until a prequel.

I'm sick of this constant propping up of Nomura as if he is somehow more capable than Tabata when he has NOTHING to show for it and hasn't even directed a single game on his own in well over a decade, while you are still clearly in denial about KH games being more unfinished in terms of content and story than anything XV does. Maybe if you didn't want to be called a Versus fanboy you would stop blatantly acting like one.
 

Vallen

AVALANCHE Warrior
Mar 4, 2018
258
572
24
#55
I'm sick of this constant propping up of Nomura as if he is somehow more capable than Tabata when he has NOTHING to show for it
SE> Nomura-san please be the director of KH3, the most fan requested game of the last decade for our company!
SE> Nomura-san please be the director of FF7R, arguably the most anticipated game of all time!
Bazztek> Nomura has NOTHING to show for it

I'm sure a random person online on a niche forum knows better than a multi-million dollar business with a very rich history and industry-wide relations and talent.
 
May 26, 2014
419
938
#56
SE> Nomura-san please be the director of KH3, the most fan requested game of the last decade for our company!
SE> Nomura-san please be the director of FF7R, arguably the most anticipated game of all time!
Bazztek> Nomura has NOTHING to show for it

I'm sure a random person online on a niche forum knows better than a multi-million dollar business with a very rich history and industry-wide relations and talent.
Tai Yasue is Co-director on KH3 and has been since it started development, and it's still not released yet so yes, he has yet to have anything to show for why he still has dedicated fanboys like when, especially when the KH games released in the past 10 years have all been complete garbage.

Kitase is the one who put him on FF7R as director in 2014 and wow they still have nothing to show for that either and constant dev trouble with that, with him even saying the same shit he tried to say about Versus that it's "going well" when that's complete bullshit and we know for a fact that Versus was troubled and that Nomura is largely responsible for that because he kept shifting his "vision" for what he wanted the game to be. By 2010 Nomura had a team, he had an engine, and yet the game was still going to be cancelled because of how bad it was internally, which is why the Versus team had a bad reputation and why we have reports from people who are even saying that Versus was bad and it was not coming toghether, that is completely seperate from higher ups somehow being the reason why Versus is a mess. During the same period of time where Versus had its team and was being made in 2010/2011 is when Type-0 was also being made, and yet that miracoulously didn't get impacted by the shit Versus did despite being made in the same production department at the time and with multiple people working on both of those games at the same time during 2010/2011.

But please tell me what year FF7R part 1 comes out? You seem to be from the future and think that because KItase is the one who is Producer on both KH3 and FF7R that it's somehow a surprise that Nomura is director on those, and yet he still has a co-director on KH3 with Tai Yasue who is the one actually doing the day to day work with the team, and Hamauchi on FF7R who is development lead and has been since they moved to being fully internal in 2017.

He completely fumbled Versus and it was more than just SE upper managment doing shit like people keep trying to damage control for Nomura keep saying.
 

Lulcielid

Warrior of Light
Oct 9, 2014
3,533
2,342
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
#57
I'll agree that him being put in charge of KH3 & VIIRemake shows that he's a potentially (I say potentially because either of them has yet to release) competent guy, with or without someone else giving extra hand.

That said, I don't see how him being in charge of these two games specifically make him a more competent guy than Tabata, regardless of what IP they belong they are still AAA HD production of big scope, something that both Nomura & Tabata have been working, it just so happens that Tabata was the first guy of the two in releasing one.
 
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Likes: Nova

Vallen

AVALANCHE Warrior
Mar 4, 2018
258
572
24
#58
Nomura worked for SE for a lot of years. If they're putting him in charge of so many crucial projects, that means that in their eyes he delivered on their expectations. They wouldn't put him on so many big projects if they weren't happy with his work. I'm saying this to cool off people yelling that he's incompetent, if he was, he wouldn't have been tasked with these roles. There are no favorites in business, you either make the company money or you're out. That means SE thinks he can make a product that will generate them revenues.
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,890
4,768
27
#59
Nomura worked for SE for a lot of years. If they're putting him in charge of so many crucial projects, that means that in their eyes he delivered on their expectations. They wouldn't put him on so many big projects if they weren't happy with his work.
one big mistake from an overall great career wouldnt tarnish him that much.
 
Likes: Nova