Versus XIII/FNC/XV development - Destroying the 10 year myth - Lots of reading

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Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,665
4,151
26
The Dawn trailer was self-evidently concept footage, honestly. I mean, the amount of time the trailer spent focused on Regis crying would have been completely unsustainable in an actual game.

I do think the core concepts should have been maintained (apart from the scene with Luna and Calligo, because that could have been changed because it didn't fit with Kingsglaive's portrayal of the invasion of Tenebrae), but I always assumed that the footage wouldn't have been used as-is.
don't agree with this, fully expected the Dawn trailer to be in the game as the opening, never got the impression the crying was too long even for a trailer.
 

pazeno91

Stiltzkin's Apprentice
Jun 9, 2015
13
6
It doesn't need to say it every single time. It's still in development until the day the devs claim the game is finished, so until that day, nothing is set in stone.

Pretty every Marvel movie or any blockbuster movie these days release trailers with footage not in the final cut of the film. But films never print the disclaimer, but it still applies.

You continue to argue about cut content, but you continue to ignore the most pivotal issue. They cut content not because they wanted to, it's because they had to. I don't know how many times I have to say this before it goes into your head, but a blu-ray disc is not a magical portal.

It's also funny how people talk about cut content, yet nobody complains about Luna's design change being revealed a few months before the initial release date.
Which is really my point. Things change constantly in development, even Luna went through changes, even though her previous model was used at the Uncovered event.
I don't know how to tell you this but there is a thing called multiple disk games. There's another thing called downloadable content. Another thing called compression.

Nobody cuts content because they don't fit one the disk. There are always ways to deliver.
 

pazeno91

Stiltzkin's Apprentice
Jun 9, 2015
13
6
The JF 2015 trailer is such tiresome cherrypicking. I have no doubt plenty of scenes from it were reconfigured into the XV universe we have now.

-The beginning with peace treaty fallout scene still exists in Kingsglaive, excluding some of the people like the unamed blonde haired guy.
-The scene with the bros finding out that the Invasion being a ruse + airships looming over them still happens but as a real-time banter in the car ride near the end of chapter 1 before reaching a Nifilheim base.
-The part with meeting Cidney in Hammerhead is still in the final game but in a different region.
-Encountering Behemoth, 'nuff said.
-Reaching Lestallum, do i even need to explain this one?
-The train scene with Shiva is almost the exact same as the final game outside of the sillouhette figure being altered to Ardyn with the party on the ground instead.
-The Titan battle, outside of the fire part + Prompto and Ignis being together with the whole party instead of catching up to Noctis and Gladio later on in the fight, was still the same in the final game scenario-wise.
-The environment in the red sky to me looked like an unfinished version of the Nifilheim Imperial Capitial in the very beginning of chapter 13 when you look at the buildings, but without the red sky part (could be incorrect on this point tho).
-The footage with the party on the road in Duscae with the Regalia (which was also part of the TGs 2014 trailer) had the radio reporting about the Peace Treaty happening at Dusk, which not only (kinda) happened in Kingsglaive, but also seemingly confirms that the scenario with the bros going on a road trip to from home to Altissia was set in stone, since the final game initially started like that, the only difference here is the setting of the beginning of the road trip shifting from Duscae to Leide, possibly due to the latter region being incomplete at the time.
-The CGI scene with Cor and the party, i'm absolutely sure is what was going to mirror the end of chapter 1 where he told Noct that Regis legitimately died, or even the Tomb scene in chapter 2.

Only footage content that outright weren't in the final product was the small clip of Luna in Altissia with gold particles around her (which is ironic since we still see short Luna scenes in the same area anyway), brief CGI footage of Verstael and the E3 2013 footage of Iedolas and Ardyn leaving the Citadel.

Like Shuya said though, aiming to deliver even more in final product =/= making a solid promise it'll happen. Some people are really confusing entitlement over presented content with being outright cheated from it.

Dawn 2.0 with Luna specifically still made it in the final game, i would have liked the rest of the first trailer though.
I think we wouldn't rant about the cutscenes that got axed so much if there were actual cutscenes in the game. It needs at least 10 or 15 more cutscenes. And some of the current ones have either no dialogue or last for less than a minute cutting dialogue mid way.
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,511
2,018
Nobody cuts content because they don't fit one the disk. There are always ways to deliver.
There is a reason the Insomnia Invasion went to Kingsglaive instead of the game prior to release. Deadlines within companies releasing their products are also a thing.

I agree that more cutscenes to flesh out story content would be welcomed, which technically is in one of their plans for the road map update.
 
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Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
698
806
don't agree with this, fully expected the Dawn trailer to be in the game as the opening, never got the impression the crying was too long even for a trailer.
Not for a trailer, but for a scene in-game?


There's over a minute of Regis standing there, holding Noct, and crying, with only one line of dialogue. Tabata said it was meant to show off the Luminous Engine's ability to portray intense emotional states, and it kind of showed.

And, for the record, I'd argue that the final game made a massive leap in that regard, particularly in the handling of characters who were on the verge of tears. There's some very well done "watery eye" shaders or something in the game that the trailer seems to lack entirely. Combine that with the fact that the appearance of present-tense Regis was apparently a temporary solution (there's a younger Regis model used in Kingsglaive and for a flashback in the game proper), and the whole thing would have had to be redone to work in the game as it exists.
 

pazeno91

Stiltzkin's Apprentice
Jun 9, 2015
13
6
Not for a trailer, but for a scene in-game?


There's over a minute of Regis standing there, holding Noct, and crying, with only one line of dialogue. Tabata said it was meant to show off the Luminous Engine's ability to portray intense emotional states, and it kind of showed.

And, for the record, I'd argue that the final game made a massive leap in that regard, particularly in the handling of characters who were on the verge of tears. There's some very well done "watery eye" shaders or something in the game that the trailer seems to lack entirely. Combine that with the fact that the appearance of present-tense Regis was apparently a temporary solution (there's a younger Regis model used in Kingsglaive and for a flashback in the game proper), and the whole thing would have had to be redone to work in the game as it exists.
That Regis model isn't even in the game.. does Regis even have an in game model of his current self? We see one in the end but it looks like his CG one. What a waste to make an in game model of Iedolas, Regis and the scientist for them to appear once for mere seconds...
 
Likes: llazy77

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,618
1,295
"The folllowing is a sneak peak of a work in progress".

Which means they're still in development stage, which means things can still change.

You're reaching here and it's pitiful to say the least.



Edit: to elaborate this goes back to my point about reading and comprehensions skills.

It's clear some people lack the ability to read between the lines and comprehend a sentence on a deeper level as to what it truly means.

God how depressing is the state of the world in, since misunderstandings and stupidity abound for a video game product of all things.
 
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llazy77

Warrior of Light
May 27, 2014
1,150
523
23
"

God how depressing is the state of the world in, since misunderstandings and stupidity abound for a video game product of all things.
Wouldnt it be worse if it was something bigger, I mean its just a video game and you are calling people stupid because of it. I dont think your comment helps in this conversation at all.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,618
1,295
Wouldnt it be worse if it was something bigger, I mean its just a video game and you are calling people stupid because of it. I dont think your comment helps in this conversation at all.
The fact that people are, quite literally, telling the dev team to "fuck themselves", calling them "liars", that "they suck", along with all sorts of other abusive phrases, tells me that people are overreacting. If this is not the very definition of people behaving stupidly, then I don't know what is.

People would be saving themselves a lot of angst if they actually slowed down and took the time to absorb information properly so as to avoid misunderstandings.

You don't agree with me that the development team has been copping a lot of shit? To the point where it's passed disappointment and just plain abusive for the sake of being an ass?

You don't agree with me that people are taking the tiniest little detail to create a storm over?

I'd like to hear your replies on these questions.


Edit: Yes, it would be much worse if it was over something much bigger. Considering the state of the world as it is now, it's already happening.

There's too much shit going on in the world right now, and the fact that negativity is the "norm" amongst gamers now.. it's sad to see.

But I digress.. let's go back to talking about games.
 
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Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
698
806
That Regis model isn't even in the game.. does Regis even have an in game model of his current self? We see one in the end but it looks like his CG one. What a waste to make an in game model of Iedolas, Regis and the scientist for them to appear once for mere seconds...
Considering that Luminous seemed to have been designed to allow for VisualWorks models to be used as the base for realtime models, I'm not sure that distinction really matters all that much. They probably did use the current CG model as the base for Regis, and maybe combined the 2011 CG face of Iedolas with his current clothes. No idea about Verstael, though, except that he could get some actual screentime in Prompto's DLC. =P
 

xXShuyaXx

SOLDIER Second Class
May 25, 2016
349
646
26
I don't know how to tell you this but there is a thing called multiple disk games. There's another thing called downloadable content. Another thing called compression.

Nobody cuts content because they don't fit one the disk. There are always ways to deliver.
I think you are new here. Because I made long a post explaining why multi disc releases no longer work in the industry. Tell me, how many games released in time the past 5 years during the BD standard hit the data limit and released on multiple discs.

Also, they are planning to add more as DLC... so I don't see the point of your comment.

Lastly, compression isn't magical means to reduce data sizes to naught. You can't compress a 5GB file to 2GB before destroying codes or the quality. And FFXV had plenty of compression where it was possible, like lower quality textures in certain areas and a low quality world map as for a few examples.
 

pazeno91

Stiltzkin's Apprentice
Jun 9, 2015
13
6
The fact that people are, quite literally, telling the dev team to "fuck themselves", calling them "liars", that "they suck", along with all sorts of other abusive phrases, tells me that people are overreacting. If this is not the very definition of people behaving stupidly, then I don't know what is.

People would be saving themselves a lot of angst if they actually slowed down and took the time to absorb information properly so as to avoid misunderstandings.

You don't agree with me that the development team has been copping a lot of shit? To the point where it's passed disappointment and just plain abusive for the sake of being an ass?

You don't agree with me that people are taking the tiniest little detail to create a storm over?

I'd like to hear your replies on these questions.


Edit: Yes, it would be much worse if it was over something much bigger. Considering the state of the world as it is now, it's already happening.

There's too much shit going on in the world right now, and the fact that negativity is the "norm" amongst gamers now.. it's sad to see.

But I digress.. let's go back to talking about games.
And accepting everything without thinking is better? Accusing them of lying is far from far fetched. They did lie. They did advertise this game in a deceiving way. They took advantage of the hype created by VERSUS in the most deceiving way. If you see what they told in interviews is in vast contrast to the trailers of VERSUS. They are even lying in the Ultimania. And it's different to have inconsistencies with the trailers or deliver a game that has vastly changed since its reveal, but here we're talking for a whole advertising campaign that was based on footage that was thrown away. The game has had 4 reveals, none of the footage made it in the game in the same form and only 10% made it in some form.

Again, where do you draw the line between overreacting and feel cheated?

To end this, this is a fucking product that we paid money for and barely resembles what they've been advertising for the past ten years. And they have straight up lied about it.
 

pazeno91

Stiltzkin's Apprentice
Jun 9, 2015
13
6
I think you are new here. Because I made long a post explaining why multi disc releases no longer work in the industry. Tell me, how many games released in time the past 5 years during the BD standard hit the data limit and released on multiple discs.

Also, they are planning to add more as DLC... so I don't see the point of your comment.

Lastly, compression isn't magical means to reduce data sizes to naught. You can't compress a 5GB file to 2GB before destroying codes or the quality. And FFXV had plenty of compression where it was possible, like lower quality textures in certain areas and a low quality world map as for a few examples.
I don't see the reason why such a big game in vision and budget can't come in two disks. Other than the price of the disk, is there any other limiting factor?

They could also find a way to save up space. Game development is supposed to be about priorities. How the hell is multiple languages on disk a priority over available space for necessary assets? Why not exclude different languages and make them downloadable?

Again, I seriously doubt they would leave whole sections unreleased simply because they can't fit them on a Blu Ray disk.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,618
1,295
And accepting everything without thinking is better? Accusing them of lying is far from far fetched. They did lie. They did advertise this game in a deceiving way. They took advantage of the hype created by VERSUS in the most deceiving way. If you see what they told in interviews is in vast contrast to the trailers of VERSUS. They are even lying in the Ultimania. And it's different to have inconsistencies with the trailers or deliver a game that has vastly changed since its reveal, but here we're talking for a whole advertising campaign that was based on footage that was thrown away. The game has had 4 reveals, none of the footage made it in the game in the same form and only 10% made it in some form.

Again, where do you draw the line between overreacting and feel cheated?

To end this, this is a fucking product that we paid money for and barely resembles what they've been advertising for the past ten years. And they have straight up lied about it.
I'll just post these.

''In development, final product may be subject to change''

and

""The folllowing is a sneak peak of a work in progress".


If they did not put these disclaimers at the beginning of the trailers, then, and only then, would you have a solid case that they "lied"

But the fact is, they did.

This isn't me defending something just for the sake of defending it. I'm looking at it objectively and trying to discern whether all of this anger is justifiable.

As soon as I read those before the footage started, I already told myself "OK, this could mean that some of the stuff here won't be in the actual game then since they're still working on it."

We all watched the same trailers did we not? Which means we all know that the disclaimer was there all this time and people who refused to read it have only themselves to blame by having set expectations on something that was clearly stated would be "subject to change."

I'm calling it as I see it. People are getting angry about something that they were already forewarned about.

Think about that for a second...


I used to be a banker, and honest to goodness, the number of times people have screwed themselves over because they did not take the time to read the fine print was extremely troubling to see. This situation is exactly the same. People ignoring the fine print but without the extreme financial consequences.


Edit: I don't remember having talked to you before. Judging by your language and tone of voice, I sincerely hope that this isn't how you normally start a conversation with people you've never met or talked to before.

I was originally talking directly to llazy you know. If you wanted to jump in then that's fine, but no need to go all angsty and rude on me.
 
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xXShuyaXx

SOLDIER Second Class
May 25, 2016
349
646
26
And accepting everything without thinking is better? Accusing them of lying is far from far fetched. They did lie. They did advertise this game in a deceiving way. They took advantage of the hype created by VERSUS in the most deceiving way. If you see what they told in interviews is in vast contrast to the trailers of VERSUS. They are even lying in the Ultimania. And it's different to have inconsistencies with the trailers or deliver a game that has vastly changed since its reveal, but here we're talking for a whole advertising campaign that was based on footage that was thrown away. The game has had 4 reveals, none of the footage made it in the game in the same form and only 10% made it in some form.

Again, where do you draw the line between overreacting and feel cheated?

To end this, this is a fucking product that we paid money for and barely resembles what they've been advertising for the past ten years. And they have straight up lied about it.
Who is this we? Not everyone shares the same sentiment as you. What you are saying is that you feel got cheated because you fell into ''blind hype''. You see everything that they show you and you bankrolled on all of it.

How do I draw the line? I was also hyped for FFXV too. Even when it was first announced, I did not care much for FFXIII and Agito. Versus was on my mind every year, hoping to see more. If my hype went as far as that, then I would fall into the ''blind hype''. But I read all the interviews and articles regarding the game and it's development. My major was in 3D Digital Arts and it was the peak of my interest in the industry, so reading about insights were fascinating. And I was able to understand the struggles in development as I myself too had similar troubles trying to keep my vision realistic enough to actually complete my projects. Things change and the initial concept never remains the same in the final product. That I have understood for years.

Do I feel cheated and lied to? No. They have been for the most part, pretty forward since the re-reveal that the game had changed and will continue to change. I noticed the first major thing that changed (for me) was the automatic combat in ED. But from the requests of fans, they switched to manual weapon switching. They listened and provided whatever they could, however not everything. Even when Tabata came out and answered questions on whether they can add certain things (such as airships), he never said a concise ''yes'' if he was unsure. They always said ''maybe'' or ''we are looking into it''. But they delivered on most either way.

Had the game been bad, as an actual bad ''game'', then I would have felt ripped. The story may not be perfect, but the game is more or less what I saw in the trailers.

To further clarify blind hype, it's the same thing where people watch infomercials on miracle products, only to buy it just by the judgement of what you see and get something completely different. If you had done prior research before purchasing, you may find out it's not the miracle product that you saw.

When you drown yourself in this blind hype without research for facts and information, you only have yourself to blame. Because if a trailer showing something different from the final product is worthy of being called a liar, then pretty much 90% of all media is guilty, movies, games, tv shows.
 
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xXShuyaXx

SOLDIER Second Class
May 25, 2016
349
646
26
I don't see the reason why such a big game in vision and budget can't come in two disks. Other than the price of the disk, is there any other limiting factor?

They could also find a way to save up space. Game development is supposed to be about priorities. How the hell is multiple languages on disk a priority over available space for necessary assets? Why not exclude different languages and make them downloadable?

Again, I seriously doubt they would leave whole sections unreleased simply because they can't fit them on a Blu Ray disk.
If you cannot see why, it's plain obvious you don't have the knowledge to understand.

People wanted and asked for more language options on release. And they delivered to those who asked for it. Though I also do not agree with putting 4 language packs onto the disk as that is a waste of space, however there are those who play without connecting to the internet. So it was most likely a decision to provide for the majority.

Data assets once created, create a chain link. By removing assets completely can potentially break that chain, causing errors and bugs and in the worst case scenario, break. They could have created the areas but were unable to populate it with enough content due to data restraints. So by leaving it bare minimum, they can utilize the remaining assets to add more content as DLC. A lot of games include unfinished areas in games, FFXV is not the first.

Perhaps a bit of more research will help you go a long way.
 

llazy77

Warrior of Light
May 27, 2014
1,150
523
23
You don't agree with me that the development team has been copping a lot of shit? To the point where it's passed disappointment and just plain abusive for the sake of being an ass?
That's what happens when you hype a game up for 10 years. Square shouldn't announce ffxvi too early and not with any crazy concept footage.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,618
1,295
That's what happens when you hype a game up for 10 years. Square shouldn't announce ffxvi too early and not with any crazy concept footage.
... I'm not sure if you're aware of just how ignorant this post sounds.. I'm going to be honest and say I'm kinda embarrassed for you here mate...

You speak as if it was 10 years of constant hype. Did you.. even follow the development of this game and understood what happened during..?



P.S.You proved the point I was trying to make a few posts back btw, if you even know what that was. You also misunderstood the nature of my question and you didn't answer what I was trying to ask... like at all =/
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
... I'm not sure if you're aware of just how ignorant this post sounds.. I'm going to be honest and say I'm kinda embarrassed for you here mate...

You speak as if it was 10 years of constant hype. Did you.. even follow the development of this game and understood what happened during..?



P.S.You proved the point I was trying to make a few posts back btw, if you even know what that was. You also misunderstood the nature of my question and you didn't answer what I was trying to ask... like at all =/
Versus XIII was going to be outright cancelled before they decided to turn it into FFXV, hell FFXV was suppose to be a western RPG, but fan demand made Versus XIII into FFXV.
It wasn't 10 years of hype, it was 3 then radio silence, then 3 more years of hype.