Versus XIII/FNC/XV development - Destroying the 10 year myth - Lots of reading

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xXShuyaXx

SOLDIER Second Class
May 25, 2016
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There is a big difference from cut content through the process of development and cut content that was initially promised.

No Mans Sky is one case where the Developer literally claimed things that did not end up in the final game. Like having a multiplayer component that would allow players to meet each other, this was verbally confirmed by the Director himself. Which ended up being a blatant case of a dirty lie that got cut.

Final Fantasy XV, what people claim is cut, was never promised or claimed verbally. Like having 4 cities, they only ever claimed the cities are there, never claiming that you would be able to explore them. It was never shown either. Any city besides Insomnia and Altissia were never physically shown. But people assumed so that one would have been able to explore them. Maybe at one point it was part of development, or perhaps it never bore fruit as it was against the technological limits. But as I have mentioned many times before, projects in development may be subject to change and SE made that message clear many times.
One cannot deny that there were cuts in development to stay within the data limits, but one should also not deny that they blinded themselves by their own hype, assuming everything to be so.

Am I disappointed that Versus is now just fleeting dream? Well yes. But do I condemn the game? No. Even Versus changed many times since it's first reveal in 2006 to 2013 and it continued to change every time I saw it till 2016. I understood the changes being made and I moved on. Thus I am able to enjoy the game without much complaints.

People are throwing around the term 'cut content' as if it's new to the industry. This has been happening since the dawn of technology.
 

pazeno91

Stiltzkin's Apprentice
Jun 9, 2015
13
6
You mean I don't see Tenebrae in this trailer?


I don't see a train station here?


When can I say they promised this and when can I say it got cut?
 
Likes: llazy77

xXShuyaXx

SOLDIER Second Class
May 25, 2016
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635
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You mean I don't see Tenebrae in this trailer?


I don't see a train station here?


When can I say they promised this and when can I say it got cut?
While we are on this subject, let's talk about everyone's favorite No Mans Sky compared to FFXV.

As I mentioned in a different thread. FFXV is roughly 45GB before updates. NMS is roughly 6GB before updates. A BD roughly packs about 46GB maximum. FFXV had to make compromises in order to actually have a working master disc. NMS however, still had over 38GB of space to have as much stuff as they wanted.
The station was shown as it was ''in development''**, however, a huge station like that is a unique asset that cannot be used anywhere else. It's a unique model that will take up it's own space. A area that maybe people will only visit a couple times then never and maybe it wasn't as important to the flow of the game. So it was ''cut'' so they could use that data space for something else. FFXV didn't make any of it's cuts just because, they had to make compromises in order to implement other content.
NMS is another story. Which I will cover below.

Many things were shown through various media for both games, covering it's development.

**''In development, final product may be subject to change''

Trailers show us many things before a games release. But they do not necessarily mean we are being ''promised'' everything that we are shown. Hence the disclaimer for possible differences in the final product. A ''release'' trailer should be the final indication of the game, this is what we are being promised. A trailer a year or two before release, is only a placeholder for what may come.
Unless, the developer themselves verbally confirm it will be there.
Murray of NMS, when asked if players would be able to meet each other in the game and have the ability to harass others, he replied ''yes''. Technically speaking, this isn't a promise either. It was an answer to a question. Not a promise. However it is a ''lie''. If you asked me ''are you a girl?'' and I said ''yes'', I am not promising you that I am a girl. I would be simply be ''lying''.

Was everything we were shown promised? No. Was it cut? Yes. Were we lied to? That's up to personal preference.
 

Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
696
802
You mean I don't see Tenebrae in this trailer?


I don't see a train station here?


When can I say they promised this and when can I say it got cut?
Tenebrae was shown as part of the World of Wonder trailer, which showed environments from angles that they were never intended to be used in the game itself. It's not like that environment wasn't used, even --

It's clearly used as a backdrop for the Leviathan-saves-the-train setpiece, the train station outpost that you visit in Chapter 12, and the scene where Luna and Ravus talk in the field of flowers.

It's less a case of Squenix making promises it didn't intend to keep and more people making assumptions based on trailers and being disappointed when the game didn't satisfy those assumptions.

As for the train station in the Cat Cam video, after having played the game, I'm honestly unsure as to what that was intended to be in the first place.

The only place I can think of that would have a train station that huge would be Gralea, but the story would have had to have been completely different (not just from its current form but also from its TGS 2014 form) for Gralea to have ever shown that many signs of life.

Maybe you'd depart the train, realize that the entire population had been turned into daemons and your powers were gone, then start the Regalia driving cutscene from there instead of some random tunnel? It'd be pretty easy to understand why they'd decide that the cost of finishing that massive train station outweighed the benefits, in that case.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,612
1,290
Many things were shown through various media for both games, covering it's development.

**''In development, final product may be subject to change''
It's less a case of Squenix making promises it didn't intend to keep and more people making assumptions based on trailers and being disappointed when the game didn't satisfy those assumptions
Pretty much these.

People have only themselves to blame when their reading comprehension skills are so poor that they don't even understand what "Final product may be subject to change" means.

The only excuse that would be plausible in this scenario is if you aren't fluent in English.
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,466
1,967
People have only themselves to blame when their reading comprehension skills are so poor that they don't even understand what "Final product may be subject to change" means.
Which reminds me, the E3 2013 combat trailer had this lovely snippet before the rest of the footage was shown off:

Screenshot_20170118-002133.png

Its also ironic, since you can still do the majority of the stuff in that trailer (outside of the hand-to-hand combat/aerial warp combo elements) within the final game either way. Tabata isn't out to fuck people over for shits and giggles, the guy gets demonized enough as is.

Certain elements in projects that are altered or removed can usually be chalked up with implementation just not working out in the end no matter now crazy good it looks upon only going by visual impression.
 
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xXShuyaXx

SOLDIER Second Class
May 25, 2016
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Tenebrae was shown as part of the World of Wonder trailer, which showed environments from angles that they were never intended to be used in the game itself. It's not like that environment wasn't used, even --

It's clearly used as a backdrop for the Leviathan-saves-the-train setpiece, the train station outpost that you visit in Chapter 12, and the scene where Luna and Ravus talk in the field of flowers.

It's less a case of Squenix making promises it didn't intend to keep and more people making assumptions based on trailers and being disappointed when the game didn't satisfy those assumptions.

As for the train station in the Cat Cam video, after having played the game, I'm honestly unsure as to what that was intended to be in the first place.

The only place I can think of that would have a train station that huge would be Gralea, but the story would have had to have been completely different (not just from its current form but also from its TGS 2014 form) for Gralea to have ever shown that many signs of life.

Maybe you'd depart the train, realize that the entire population had been turned into daemons and your powers were gone, then start the Regalia driving cutscene from there instead of some random tunnel? It'd be pretty easy to understand why they'd decide that the cost of finishing that massive train station outweighed the benefits, in that case.
I think the train station would have been part of the train segment, where you make a temporary stop. But it may not have provided anything to the story only being a big waste in data, as the station looked pretty big. Maybe a few treasures here and there, maybe some sidequests, but ultimately it might have been a place that you only would go once or twice.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,612
1,290
I'm all for criticism and sharing ideas for what the game could do to better itself, but nonsense like "they promissssed omg they lied!!" is pure idiocy at the highest level.

Nova shared a screenshot of them clearly saying things would be subject to change.

Some people (you know who you are) should stop reaching. The desperation is nothing short of pitiful.
 
Nov 8, 2014
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it's like ranting about how a movie like Avengers didnt promise us to use that concept art or ideas tossed around.

FF wiki calls it Dummied content. not everything gets put onto disc, even if its seen in trailers
 
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llazy77

Warrior of Light
May 27, 2014
1,149
523
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**''In development, final product may be subject to change''



I'm all for criticism and sharing ideas for what the game could do to better itself, but nonsense like "they promissssed omg they lied!!" is pure idiocy at the highest level.

Nova shared a screenshot of them clearly saying things would be subject to change.

Some people (you know who you are) should stop reaching. The desperation is nothing short of pitiful.

They said that in the e3 2013 trailer but in the TGS 2014 and Jump Festa 2014 trailer they say
upload_2017-1-18_9-48-0.png

Theres nothing here about it being subject to change, in fact they are saying they will deliver more with the final product.

The Tgs Trailer had stuff that was not in the game like the red sky and Luna in a chair, and the Jump Festa trailer had the old versus cutscenes of the invasion on the beggining with old Regis's design. As well as this scene that was cut
upload_2017-1-18_9-50-23.png

The Dawn Trailer dosent say anything before hand and pretty much the whole trailer was cut

So yeah nothing about being subject to change, and did they deliver more? not really I would say they delivered less. Even the graphical fidelity of the tgs and jump festa trailer were much better than what we got.
 

xXShuyaXx

SOLDIER Second Class
May 25, 2016
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They said that in the e3 2013 trailer but in the TGS 2014 and Jump Festa 2014 trailer they say
View attachment 675

Theres nothing here about it being subject to change, in fact they are saying they will deliver more with the final product.

The Tgs Trailer had stuff that was not in the game like the red sky and Luna in a chair, and the Jump Festa trailer had the old versus cutscenes of the invasion on the beggining with old Regis's design. As well as this scene that was cut
View attachment 676

The Dawn Trailer dosent say anything before hand and pretty much the whole trailer was cut

So yeah nothing about being subject to change, and did they deliver more? not really I would say they delivered less. Even the graphical fidelity of the tgs and jump festa trailer were much better than what we got.
It doesn't need to say it every single time. It's still in development until the day the devs claim the game is finished, so until that day, nothing is set in stone.

Pretty every Marvel movie or any blockbuster movie these days release trailers with footage not in the final cut of the film. But films never print the disclaimer, but it still applies.

You continue to argue about cut content, but you continue to ignore the most pivotal issue. They cut content not because they wanted to, it's because they had to. I don't know how many times I have to say this before it goes into your head, but a blu-ray disc is not a magical portal.

It's also funny how people talk about cut content, yet nobody complains about Luna's design change being revealed a few months before the initial release date.
Which is really my point. Things change constantly in development, even Luna went through changes, even though her previous model was used at the Uncovered event.
 
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llazy77

Warrior of Light
May 27, 2014
1,149
523
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It doesn't need to say it every single time. It's still in development until the day the devs claim the game is finished, so until that day, nothing is set in stone.

Pretty every Marvel movie or any blockbuster movie these days release trailers with footage not in the final cut of the film. But films never print the disclaimer, but it still applies.

You continue to argue about cut content, but you continue to ignore the most pivotal issue. They cut content not because they wanted to, it's because they had to. I don't know how many times I have to say this before it goes into your head, but a blu-ray disc is not a magical portal.

It's also funny how people talk about cut content, yet nobody complains about Luna's design change being revealed a few months before the initial release date.
Which is really my point. Things change constantly in development, even Luna went through changes, even though her previous model was used at the Uncovered event.
Im just showing what they said in the trailers. Was responding to the topic of whether or not they lied to us in marketing.
 
Nov 8, 2014
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It's also funny how people talk about cut content, yet nobody complains about Luna's design change being revealed a few months before the initial release date.
it was also stated during the Dawn Trailer that Luna was undergoing multiple rewrites. and the first half was concept footage more than anything else, luna and her guards/noctis and his father
 

xXShuyaXx

SOLDIER Second Class
May 25, 2016
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Im just showing what they said in the trailers. Was responding to the topic of whether or not they lied to us in marketing.
''We aim to deliver even more with the final product''
This isn't exactly a ''promise'' nor an ''assurance'' to define a ''lie''. The 60FPS pro patch was ''aimed'' for a December release, which means they can't make any promises that they ''will'' release in December, but they will ''try'' to do so. So by saying ''we aim to deliver'', they are saying ''we want to'', it's what they desire to do. They are not saying ''we will deliver''. As an example, if a delivery company says ''we aim to deliver the parcel tonight'', it means that they will try to deliver it, but no assurances are made. However, if they say ''we will deliver it tonight'', they are ''assuring'' you a promise that they will deliver.

So no, it's not a case of being lied to.
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,466
1,967
The JF 2015 trailer is such tiresome cherrypicking. I have no doubt plenty of scenes from it were reconfigured into the XV universe we have now.

-The beginning with peace treaty fallout scene still exists in Kingsglaive, excluding some of the people like the unamed blonde haired guy.
-The scene with the bros finding out that the Invasion being a ruse + airships looming over them still happens but as a real-time banter in the car ride near the end of chapter 1 before reaching a Nifilheim base.
-The part with meeting Cidney in Hammerhead is still in the final game but in a different region.
-Encountering Behemoth, 'nuff said.
-Reaching Lestallum, do i even need to explain this one?
-The train scene with Shiva is almost the exact same as the final game outside of the silhouette figure being altered to Ardyn with the party on the ground instead.
-The Titan battle, outside of the fire part + Prompto and Ignis being together with the whole party instead of catching up to Noctis and Gladio later on in the fight, was still the same in the final game scenario-wise.
-The environment in the red sky to me looked like an unfinished version of the Nifilheim Imperial Capitial in the very beginning of chapter 13 when you look at the buildings, but without the red sky part (could be incorrect on this point tho).
-The footage with the party on the road in Duscae with the Regalia (which was also part of the TGs 2014 trailer) had the radio reporting about the Peace Treaty happening at Dusk, which not only (kinda) happened in Kingsglaive, but also seemingly confirms that the scenario with the bros going on a road trip to from home to Altissia was set in stone, since the final game initially started like that, the only difference here is the setting of the beginning of the road trip shifting from Duscae to Leide, possibly due to the latter region being incomplete at the time.
-The CGI scene with Cor and the party, i'm absolutely sure is what was going to mirror the end of chapter 1 where he told Noct that Regis legitimately died, or even the Tomb scene in chapter 2.

Only footage content that outright weren't in the final product was the small clip of Luna in Altissia with gold particles around her (which is ironic since we still see short Luna scenes in the same area anyway), brief CGI footage of Verstael and the E3 2013 footage of Iedolas and Ardyn leaving the Citadel.

Like Shuya said though, aiming to deliver even more in final product =/= making a solid promise it'll happen. Some people are really confusing entitlement over presented content with being outright cheated from it.

Dawn 2.0 with Luna specifically still made it in the final game, i would have liked the rest of the first trailer though.
 
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Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
696
802
People who only watch the trailer and dont read interviews dont know this.
The Dawn trailer was self-evidently concept footage, honestly. I mean, the amount of time the trailer spent focused on Regis crying would have been completely unsustainable in an actual game.

I do think the core concepts should have been maintained (apart from the scene with Luna and Calligo, because that could have been changed because it didn't fit with Kingsglaive's portrayal of the invasion of Tenebrae), but I always assumed that the footage wouldn't have been used as-is.