Final Fantasy XV - General News Thread

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Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
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...why in the world is anyone even discussing the possibility of PC-exclusive setpiece updates? o_0;

A lack of destructibility isn't the issue with the Leviathan fight. There actually are destructible elements in that setpiece, even if the scenario isn't really designed to show them off.

And, on the flip side, PC ports almost always provide settings that allow people with hardware that's less capable than consoles to play using lower graphical settings. Offering modes that throw in a ridiculous number of individual blades of grass, improve the Global Illumination model, and add volumetric fire effects are conducive to proper scaling. Changing setpieces to be more complicated really, really isn't.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
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I wonder how FFXV will run on the Xbox Scorpio that system is very unbalanced, I mean how can you pair a 6TFLOP(most likely) Vega GPU with a 8 Core Jaguar CPU that thing is going to face a CPU bottleneck, hell same with the PS4 Pro.


...why in the world is anyone even discussing the possibility of PC-exclusive setpiece updates? o_0;

A lack of destructibility isn't the issue with the Leviathan fight. There actually are destructible elements in that setpiece, even if the scenario isn't really designed to show them off.

And, on the flip side, PC ports almost always provide settings that allow people with hardware that's less capable than consoles to play using lower graphical settings. Offering modes that throw in a ridiculous number of individual blades of grass, improve the Global Illumination model, and add volumetric fire effects are conducive to proper scaling. Changing setpieces to be more complicated really, really isn't.
Why in the blue hell would Square make a PC Port of FFXV run on consoles less powerful than the Xbox One, if you don't have a PC as powerful as the PS4, or Xbox One, then you probably weren't interested in Final Fantasy XV anyway or many 8th generation titles, I really do hope honestly they have PC exclusive set piece updates if they can't be run on consoles, especially if this thing is coming out in 2018 parts more powerful than the PS4 Pro will be much more affordable then, hell they already are affordable now.

If you have a PC less powerful than the PS4 and want to play FFXV Upgrade it, if you don't want to upgrade it, then play it on console.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/cMCZHN\
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/m74ZHN
or if you want to be so fast the consoles look like this to you
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/MTmND8

This is march 2017, and the rest of RYZEN isn't even out yet
If you want to play FFXV on PC, then upgrade or build anew
 
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Ikkin

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Oct 30, 2016
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I wonder how FFXV will run on the Xbox Scorpio that system is very unbalanced, I mean how can you pair a 6TFLOP(most likely) Vega GPU with a 8 Core Jaguar CPU that thing is going to face a CPU bottleneck, hell same with the PS4 Pro.
I suspect that PS4Pro's lack of balance was intentional. It's good enough for Sony's teams to checkerboard ~4k, but keeping the CPU close to the standard PS4 makes it harder to do things on the Pro that the PS4 can't do at a lower resolution (and less AF). As long as they make a full generation break in 2019 or 2020, it won't matter all that much.

As for Scorpio... who knows what Microsoft is thinking? They've said they want to get rid of generations, but one would think that they'd want the increases in power to be more balanced if that's the case. =/

Why in the blue hell would Square make a PC Port of FFXV run on consoles less powerful than the Xbox One, if you don't have a PC as powerful as the PS4, or Xbox One, then you probably weren't interested in Final Fantasy XV anyway or many 8th generation titles, I really do hope honestly they have PC exclusive set piece updates, especially if this thing is coming out in 2018 parts more powerful than the PS4 Pro will be much more affordable then, hell they already are affordable now.
Because a lot of people don't bother with desktop computers? I thought that the general rule of thumb for console games vs. PC settings was that consoles tended to run at Medium settings for everything other than draw distance (due to the weak CPUs), which would imply that there's room for scaling back from console settings in most PC games.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
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I suspect that PS4Pro's lack of balance was intentional. It's good enough for Sony's teams to checkerboard ~4k, but keeping the CPU close to the standard PS4 makes it harder to do things on the Pro that the PS4 can't do at a lower resolution (and less AF). As long as they make a full generation break in 2019 or 2020, it won't matter all that much.

As for Scorpio... who knows what Microsoft is thinking? They've said they want to get rid of generations, but one would think that they'd want the increases in power to be more balanced if that's the case. =/



Because a lot of people don't bother with desktop computers? I thought that the general rule of thumb for console games vs. PC settings was that consoles tended to run at Medium settings for everything other than draw distance (due to the weak CPUs), which would imply that there's room for scaling back from console settings in most PC games.
Most PC Gamers use desktops, most people that play AAA games on PC are using desktops very few people on a laptop expect those games to run on their systems, as most laptop users just use them for games like LOL, but not many laptop users like to spend 1000+ on something remotely decent, in the AAA space though it's desktop city. Some games allow for scale backs, but that's usually with straight up simple console ports. Also we need to take into consideration that it's pretty likely that FFXV will come out on PC in 2018 like Q2 2018.

For example these are Nier Automata's minimum requirements
  • OS: Windows 7 64-bit / Windows 8.1 64-bit / Windows 10 64-bit (32-bit OS not supported)
  • CPU: Intel Core i3 2100 or higher, AMD A8-6500 or higher.
  • Memory: 4GB or higher free space.
  • Hard-Disk / SSD: 50GB or higher.
  • Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 VRAM 2GB or higher / AMD Radeon R9 270X VRAM 2GB or higher.

All the parts listed here to find a laptop of the equivalent would run you 1000+, now granted it's very possible that these are inflated, but if they are not then you get the idea.

In the AAA hardcore gamers space when it comes to PC owning a gaming laptop is usually scoffed at, and isn't very common, it's better to buy a prebuilt in that case, or better yet select the parts and get someone to build it for you.

Laptops when used for gaming, it's more for games that are very small, low graphics, and make good use of the keyboard and mouse, like Undertale, Paper's Please, League of Legends, Dota 2, CS GO.
Most of those laptop owners wouldn't even bother looking at FFXV because just by looking at the game, they know their systems couldn't handle it, and it would just be better for them to either buy a console or build a desktop than buying a 1000+ laptop.

In fact when it comes to the laptop space, you are more likely to find Intel HD systems with i7's, or AMD APU's with excavator in them, they couldn't even run the game anyway. Most laptop users that buy a laptop with gaming in mind would have something that is more powerful than the PlayStation 4, but it would cost them north of 1000+.


Just to further beat this point about Laptops home

  • Intel CPU Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz.
  • AMD CPU Phenom II X4 940.
  • Nvidia GPU GeForce GTX 660.
  • AMD GPU Radeon HD 7870.
  • RAM 6GB.
  • OS 64-bit Windows 7 or 64-bit Windows 8 (8.1)
  • DirectX 11.
  • HDD Space 40 GB
Here are the minimum requirements for the Witcher 3

Also my point even stands with people that buy desktop computers from best buy
 
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Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
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Most PC Gamers use desktops, most people that play AAA games on PC are using desktops very few people on a laptop expect those games to run on their systems, as most laptop users just use them for games like LOL, but not many laptop users like to spend 1000+ on something remotely decent, in the AAA space though it's desktop city. Some games allow for scale backs, but that's usually with straight up simple console ports. Also we need to take into consideration that it's pretty likely that FFXV will come out on PC in 2018 like Q2 2018.

For example these are Nier Automata's minimum requirements
  • OS: Windows 7 64-bit / Windows 8.1 64-bit / Windows 10 64-bit (32-bit OS not supported)
  • CPU: Intel Core i3 2100 or higher, AMD A8-6500 or higher.
  • Memory: 4GB or higher free space.
  • Hard-Disk / SSD: 50GB or higher.
  • Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 VRAM 2GB or higher / AMD Radeon R9 270X VRAM 2GB or higher.

All the parts listed here to find a laptop of the equivalent would run you 1000+, now granted it's very possible that these are inflated, but if they are not then you get the idea.

In the AAA hardcore gamers space when it comes to PC owning a gaming laptop is usually scoffed at, and isn't very common, it's better to buy a prebuilt in that case, or better yet select the parts and get someone to build it for you.

Laptops when used for gaming, it's more for games that are very small, low graphics, and make good use of the keyboard and mouse, like Undertale, Paper's Please, League of Legends, Dota 2, CS GO.
Most of those laptop owners wouldn't even bother looking at FFXV because just by looking at the game, they know their systems couldn't handle it, and it would just be better for them to either buy a console or build a desktop than buying a 1000+ laptop.

In fact when it comes to the laptop space, you are more likely to find Intel HD systems with i7's, or AMD APU's with excavator in them, they couldn't even run the game anyway. Most laptop users that buy a laptop with gaming in mind would have something that is more powerful than the PlayStation 4, but it would cost them north of 1000+.


Just to further beat this point about Laptops home

  • Intel CPU Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz.
  • AMD CPU Phenom II X4 940.
  • Nvidia GPU GeForce GTX 660.
  • AMD GPU Radeon HD 7870.
  • RAM 6GB.
  • OS 64-bit Windows 7 or 64-bit Windows 8 (8.1)
  • DirectX 11.
  • HDD Space 40 GB
Here are the minimum requirements for the Witcher 3

Also my point even stands with people that buy desktop computers from best buy
The question is, if PC games have minimum specs close to or above console equivalent, why do they have minimum settings that are below console quality? And why is it possible to make them work on significantly worse hardware than the "minimum" if you play with the hidden settings (I think LowSpecGamer on YouTube got W3 running on a 460 =P )?

If most PC games are designed with such settings in mind, it stands to reason that Squenix would do the same with FFXV, especially since we've seen some of the methods they have of reducing the amount of power needed to render the game (case in point: the "Gold Master candidate" footage). I could see hidden settings allowing for some particularly hilarious low spec footage, actually, given what the lowest LoD looks like. Kind of looking forward to footage of the "PSOne demake" that we'll get when someone reduces the resolution to 240p, forces the lowest LoD (with its ridiculously low poly models, cardboard trees, and ultra simplified level geometry), and switches the lighting to whatever the heck was going on back in July.

It's not like there aren't plenty of ways to use extra power without raising the floor. And since it's rare for the floor to be raised past consoles regardless of the listed requirements, that seems like a far more probable solution.

Now, if the game gets a next-gen Special Edition in 2019 or something, I could see greater changes being more viable, but pretty much everything we've seen that's PC-only* is an option for the high end rather than a change to the game's foundation.

* Adaptive AI is the closest thing to a foundational change, and even that could be implemented as a separate difficulty mode.
 
Oct 19, 2013
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The question is, if PC games have minimum specs close to or above console equivalent, why do they have minimum settings that are below console quality? And why is it possible to make them work on significantly worse hardware than the "minimum" if you play with the hidden settings (I think LowSpecGamer on YouTube got W3 running on a 460 =P )?

If most PC games are designed with such settings in mind, it stands to reason that Squenix would do the same with FFXV, especially since we've seen some of the methods they have of reducing the amount of power needed to render the game (case in point: the "Gold Master candidate" footage). I could see hidden settings allowing for some particularly hilarious low spec footage, actually, given what the lowest LoD looks like. Kind of looking forward to footage of the "PSOne demake" that we'll get when someone reduces the resolution to 240p, forces the lowest LoD (with its ridiculously low poly models, cardboard trees, and ultra simplified level geometry), and switches the lighting to whatever the heck was going on back in July.

It's not like there aren't plenty of ways to use extra power without raising the floor. And since it's rare for the floor to be raised past consoles regardless of the listed requirements, that seems like a far more probable solution.

Now, if the game gets a next-gen Special Edition in 2019 or something, I could see greater changes being more viable, but pretty much everything we've seen that's PC-only* is an option for the high end rather than a change to the game's foundation.

* Adaptive AI is the closest thing to a foundational change, and even that could be implemented as a separate difficulty mode.
Imagine playing with model #7 all the time :D

 

Tornak

Keyblade Master
May 18, 2014
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Madrid, Spain
Dan Inoue wasn't kidding with those Kurt Cobain comparisons.

I think he meant personality-wise. Look-wise Punished Noctis actually looks more like John Wick :D





And this is why Naora would be a great choice for XVI as a main character designer.

Who created older Gladio, Ignis and Prompto, by the way? Naora, too? Although their designs are pretty much the same, so not too much work went into them.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
794
191
26
Unknown, Unknown
The question is, if PC games have minimum specs close to or above console equivalent, why do they have minimum settings that are below console quality? And why is it possible to make them work on significantly worse hardware than the "minimum" if you play with the hidden settings (I think LowSpecGamer on YouTube got W3 running on a 460 =P )?

If most PC games are designed with such settings in mind, it stands to reason that Squenix would do the same with FFXV, especially since we've seen some of the methods they have of reducing the amount of power needed to render the game (case in point: the "Gold Master candidate" footage). I could see hidden settings allowing for some particularly hilarious low spec footage, actually, given what the lowest LoD looks like. Kind of looking forward to footage of the "PSOne demake" that we'll get when someone reduces the resolution to 240p, forces the lowest LoD (with its ridiculously low poly models, cardboard trees, and ultra simplified level geometry), and switches the lighting to whatever the heck was going on back in July.

It's not like there aren't plenty of ways to use extra power without raising the floor. And since it's rare for the floor to be raised past consoles regardless of the listed requirements, that seems like a far more probable solution.

Now, if the game gets a next-gen Special Edition in 2019 or something, I could see greater changes being more viable, but pretty much everything we've seen that's PC-only* is an option for the high end rather than a change to the game's foundation.

* Adaptive AI is the closest thing to a foundational change, and even that could be implemented as a separate difficulty mode.
>The question is, if PC games have minimum specs close to or above console equivalent, why do they have minimum settings that are below console quality? And why is it possible to make them work on significantly worse hardware than the "minimum" if you play with the hidden settings (I think LowSpecGamer on YouTube got W3 running on a 460 =P )?

Simple frame rate he has the game running on
this type of PC but it's unplayable when using the official settings he used a mod to lower the graphical quality of the game also not all games are designed like this, some do some don't depends on the game in question, and when he did run the mod the games graphical quality took a massive dip.



Thing is most new PC Games aren't at least not at a playable level, in fact what you listed are more graphical settings, and when he got them to run the graphical quality took a massive dip, and the frame rate will still at 30FPS.
Square probably won't be thinking about low spec gamers, if let's say they can't get something like the Leviathan fight of 2013 or a overhauled Leviathan fight(I'm assuming this would be a PC exclusive feature, they can use to sell the game on PC, especially since the boss fight is pretty divisive) on a console at a graphical quality that they find acceptable for the PS4 or Xbox One), and the thing can't run very well on low specs to the point it's playable, then they won't bother catering to such people since only a small percentile will buy the game on such outdated systems and try what low spec gamer does.

While it may actually be possible to run something like the 2013 Leviathan fight on the PS4 if you lowered the graphical settings to something akin to the PS3 graphical quality level, but if not Square won't be thinking about the low spec market, at the very best they will think about the mid range, and those PCs could probably run it especially since at the time the most powerful graphics card was a NVIDIA Titan Kepler, now that's a mid range part, that can be had for sub 200 dollars, and I'm going to be that Square was running a GTX 680 when showing off that trailer, a RX 470 by today's standard, and by the time the PC Version comes out well more powerful mid range cards would exist.

I also think it's likely they are just going to focus on the mid to high-end market because those are the people they are going to sell this game to, those on casual laptops are incredibly unlikely to want to play the game at low spec levels, and they are also equally unlikely to go into the ini files to try and run the game, they may as well go out and buy a console.
, .
If anything what Low Spec Gamer shows is that if you are willing to lower the ini files, and mod games to look terrible then it's possible to run them, I don't believe the developer had any intention of such a thing in the first place, it just so happened to be possible, they don't advertise it because they know most PC Gamers won't do more than go into the game settings and tweak it there, and sometimes running it doesn't equal playing it, for example I could run a game below the minimum requirements doesn't mean I'm playing it though, because 15 FPS in an Action oriented game is beyond unplayable.

Now I want to look at Square as a developer to my knowledge Type-0 HD doesn't run well on an Intel HD which most low spec computers have, and I believe the current Intel HD is faster than a GT 540M, I can run but it can't run well, at least not to the point where any individual will say this is playable. To me unless FFXV allows for a huge graphical dip in Quality to run on something like an Intel HD which Type-0 struggles with, and Square has made no attempts to make it playable. I've seen it run on a NVIDIA 940M, but those laptops right now are above the price of a desktop. In fact here is Type-0 running on the same system set-up a GT 540M

The game is unplayable, it can run, but it's unplayable.
Similar in a case to games like Battlefield 1 the graphics cards that are low end like the GT 540 have the parts that can run the game keyword being run, but well is a different story that's why we have minimum requirements. In fact the youtuber said that if he lowered the game to 410 x 300 it would run at 23 FPS, and look awful. These developers don't take the low spec gamer into consideration, maybe through mods, but developers themselves no.
Hell take a look at Watch Dogs 2 another popular title, the game isn't playable it runs, but that's not the developers intention.


Also I'm aware that Luminous is scalable, but let's say Square decides to take another crack at getting the Leviathan fight of 2013 running on the PC(I don't think they will do this, but let's say they do), they won't be trying to run the game on GT 540, or Intel HD systems. They won't even have them in mind, similar to EA, they will target the minimum spec to be a PC that can be had at 300-400 dollars in 2018, and by minimum I mean what does it take for the game to run properly not just run.

Also when developers put graphic settings that are lower than the consoles in the game, it's for frame rate purposes, for those that are on minimum spec requirements, not for the low spec gamers it just so happens it can run. If there is something that they want to do something gameplay wise ie. Leviathan Fight overhaul, and it can't run on something like a GTX 460, they won't care since most Desktop PC users won't be running a GTX 460 in their systems if they cared about playing Final Fantasy XV on their systems so Square won't bother catering to them, if it means holding back on certain things that had to be dumped because the consoles couldn't run them properly. Especially since something like a GTX 1050 exists.

They would also have to choose between double dippers vs low spec gamers, and most likely they will go for the double dippers, and let the modding community deal with the low speccers(which let's face it most won't bother, they will just play it on console)
 
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Ikkin

Warrior of Light
Oct 30, 2016
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Imagine playing with model #7 all the time :D

That's exactly what I was talking about. XD #6 could be a mostly-competent <500 tri model, but I wouldn't be surprised if #7 was closer to 100 tri.

@Hey Everyone - I want to try to get back on topic here, so I'm just going to limit this to a few comments.

First, I'm not saying that the hidden settings were intended to be used. What I'm saying is that hard cutoffs are all but non-existent when dealing with modern hardware. It's almost always possible to use resolution and LoD tweaks to make games playable on significantly lesser hardware.

Second, my point about laptops isn't about ancient cards like the GT 540M (or their integrated equivalents) so much as more recent offerings like my own GTX 960M. I'm not a PC-focused gamer by any means, but gamer GPUs are useful for most programs that involve editing images and video and it's nice to have the option to play games without having a separate box that I almost never use (since the ability to move around the house trumps raw power almost every time), hence it makes more sense just to buy a more expensive laptop. I'm sure I'm not the only one in that sort of position.

Third -- and this is where I get back on topic! -- graphics aren't exactly the problem with the Leviathan fight in the first place.
Apart from some obviously prerendered effects and maybe Leviathan herself, most of the assets in the 2013 target render looked cross-gen. The real issues are the need for a climbing system and the completely unplayable camera angles used to make it look more dynamic; interestingly enough, Pitioss suggests that they'd at least played around with some of the prerequisites for navigating irregular and/or moving geometry. From the perspective of the fight as it currently exists, the problem with the Leviathan fight is that it's improperly weighted. The "no win" part lasts something like a minute if things go right, and the "no lose" part takes a long time regardless of what you do.

Working from the current version as a base, the following could be an effective alteration:
1) Modify the opening segment to give it a specific goal, namely, "jump to warp points to flee Leviathan!" If possible, make those warp points move and rotate so you have to struggle to stay on top of them. Alter Leviathan's AI so that it destroys whichever warp point you're on (the way it destroys the first one) ASAP.
2) Once all the warp points are gone, add a quick scene showing Luna telling Noct he has to fight.
3) Force Noct to fight Leviathan in the style of the super-armiger fight with only his normal moveset, with the goal of surviving for 5 minutes. If possible, add warp points under Leviathan's eyes, but allow her to shake Noct loose if he tries to stay there. Leviathan actually has a pretty neat moveset in the super-armiger fight, but it's completely irrelevant since Noct is all but invincible. The need to survive for a set amount of time would allow the "no win" fight to at least have a goal.
4) At the end of the five minutes, Noct is tossed away as per the current game, and the cutscenes proceed as usual.
5) The super-armiger fight is severely reduced so that you're almost constantly breaking limbs, exploiting vulnerability, performing "QTE" dodges, or finishing her off.

Most of that seems reasonable without increasing the processing requirements too much, and the result would offer two setpiece moments (fleeing as the warp points are destroyed, using superpowers to take down Leviathan) and one actual challenge (surviving her onslaught while limited to your regular moveset).
In any case, given the amount it'd cost, it'd make far more sense to base any potential revisions to that cutscene around what could benefit the original game rather than limiting the revision's reach to PC gamers with beefy machines.
 
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xXShuyaXx

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May 25, 2016
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Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
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https://twitter.com/hetareoGM/status/836196102554574848

the fuck is this? the jacket is available on psn japan + new parry moves with iris?
Very nice dynamics between Noctis and Iris.

That jacket looks great. Wouldn't mind a worldwide release for that.

Glad I saved a save file right when
Iris joins the party.

I'll be testing to see if there are any new moves once episode Gladio hits.
 
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