Just How Much Content Should Be Added For the Game to Feel Complete?

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Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,616
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#21
These words triggered some questions into my mind.

Currently we´re all blaming the game being "rushed/lack of budget/lack of time" as to why stuff got cut but I question, how far can we use this as an explanation? Was it cut because of the above? or Was it cut because the dev team just concluded that they were meaningless aditions in the overall experience?
Didn't mean any negativity by saying "originally intended."

I probably should have worded that a lot better.

Very good questions. Honestly I have no idea. It could be both?

They didnt decide early on that they were going to cut all the content, if you read the employee 4chan leaks you can see it planned even in the last few months on development to put in alot of areas that weren't included but they just ran out of time. It seems like you are trying to damage control for it.
He's not trying to damage control.

More like trying to engage in conversation and discuss his perspective as well as taking into account what I said.
 
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Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,600
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#22
These words triggered some questions into my mind.

Currently we´re all blaming the game being "rushed/lack of budget/lack of time" as to why stuff got cut but I question, how far can we use this as an explanation? Was it cut because of the above? or Was it cut because the dev team just concluded that they were meaningless aditions in the overall experience?
totally agree

in game development you create a lot of content but in the end you only select the best/relevant stuff to add in the game

that's what happened with Shadow of Colossus which originally had way more colossi to fight but the number was cut to 16, that's only one example.

not every content was cut because of lack of time; the problem with this game is: the production was well-documented so ppl are aware of the changes, but if you search for the development history of plenty of other titles you'll see a lot of deleted content as well.
 

Lulcielid

Warrior of Light
#23
TBH I think Final Fantasy XV should have been a trilogy which would have allowed them to make this game to it's full potential, but I understand why they didn't. Me I just hope that FFXV gets more explorable stuff, and more story related content in time for it's PC Version(which I'm hearing 2018), then maybe a Kingslavie game, because I would think Kingslaive could be made into a game, and play pretty well actually, and who knows maybe that Versus XV actually will happen(If it's a trilogy like orignally intended I'd be excited for it, because it means more Chocobros, and more of this battle system which tbh I might like over all the other FF games at least from what I've played but then again I'm a Kingdom Hearts nut so you know where my biases lie.
Why wasting resources in making a trillogy or making this "Versus XV" instead of just updating the base FFXV we have? Also why "Versus XV" of all things when they were telling us so hard "this is not Versus"?
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
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#26
I will keep on believing.
you're treating this like a special project, you don't see a "Versus" edition of 99% of games out there that suffered changes... because this is fucking normal (the difference is that we're talking about a 10 year project)

but yeah, believe whatever you want
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
#27
Why wasting resources in making a trillogy or making this "Versus XV" instead of just updating the base FFXV we have? Also why "Versus XV" of all things when they were telling us so hard "this is not Versus"?
No I mean the original vision for FFXV was suppose to span over a trilogy, I'm talking about before it was condensed.
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,483
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#28
@Ilazy77

Then don't go on a rant upon this forum once 2020 passes with zero announcement of anything Versus XV related. Thats the kind of disappoinent thats well deserved when placing unrealistic expectations above judgement.

Its not happening. It won't happen. It'll never happen. End of discussion.

EDIT: For the record, i don't think you're in any position to call out others on damage controlling, going by your own history.

No I mean the original vision for FFXV was suppose to span over a trilogy, I'm talking about before it was condensed.
Lets be honest, going by Ferrari's comments about XV being slated as a 2014 release originally before it was changed to 2016, i doubt the trilogy idea would have been smooth sailing even if the idea sounds more viable on paper. The fact next gen engine development was still WIP prior to XV's 2016 release while it was being worked on alongside the Luminous team makes the idea of it shipping in 2014 alone sound ludicrous.
 
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Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
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Unknown, Unknown
#29
The odds are less than 1%, as much as how much of a waste of budget & effort Versus XV would be when everything around that rumour screams fanwank pandering.
TBH I wouldn't put it past Square especially if FFXV is successful they will probably find a way to make sequels or prequels or a remake out of it, using their assets, I mean FFXIII got sequels, knowing Square they will probably find a way to milk Luminous and FFXV for all it's worth.
 

Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,600
4,014
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#30
@Ilazy77

Then don't go on a rant upon this forum once 2020 passes with zero announcement of anything Versus XV related. Thats the kind of disappoinent thats well deserved when placing unrealistic expectations above judgement.

Its not happening. It won't happen. It'll never happen. End of discussion.
there's 1% of chance that in a decade they decide to remake the game smh
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
#31
you're treating this like a special project, you don't see a "Versus" edition of 99% of games out there that suffered changes... because this is fucking normal (the difference is that we're talking about a 10 year project)

but yeah, believe whatever you want
I wouldn't a Versus edition per say more like FFXV with Versus XIII elements as a trilogy 3 full games at 60 bucks using assets from FFXV possibly happening after a Kingslavie game, I wouldn't put it past Square, they seem to like milking successful games.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,616
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#32
TBH I wouldn't put it past Square especially if FFXV is successful they will probably find a way to make sequels or prequels or a remake out of it, using their assets, I mean FFXIII got sequels, knowing Square they will probably find a way to milk Luminous and FFXV for all it's worth.
Fair point.

However I think more DLC episodes on top of what is announced at this point in time is more likely than a sequel.

I think they learned to stay away from sequels after the 13 trilogy.

I'd wager they're going by reception for the game and DLC before making any decisions on expansions.
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,483
1,988
#33
I wouldn't a Versus edition per say more like FFXV with Versus XIII elements as a trilogy 3 full games at 60 bucks using assets from FFXV possibly happening after a Kingslavie game, I wouldn't put it past Square, they seem to like milking successful games.
I'm assuming this is also based on the 4chan leak?

Or just improve on the base game's issue, then move on to developing FFXVI. They already have the season pass DLC expansion being made on top of the road map update that includes a long-term plan to include more playable characters.

S.E. have plenty of options moving forward, and a remake of a 2016 game with an already nice foundation to build up upon isn't one of them.
 
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Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
697
805
#34
They didnt decide early on that they were going to cut all the content, if you read the employee 4chan leaks you can see it planned even in the last few months on development to put in alot of areas that weren't included but they just ran out of time. It seems like you are trying to damage control for it.
a) Why are we trusting 4chan of all things?
b) Even the 4chan guy wasn't talking about open-world stuff getting cut, at least not recently. Most of what he'd mentioned -- driving to the Cartanica dungeon, a Shiva dungeon, a short Tenebrae dungeon -- would be completely viable within the current structure, as I've stated repeatedly.
c) There's something really fishy about the idea that a significant amount of content was cut from the completed pre-alpha that they'd finished by the beginning of 2016 considering the fact that the game took up the entirety of a Blu-ray as-is and needed a patch to add in cutscenes that wouldn't fit on the disc. =P

Should they change/tweak the existing story or not is what's fueling debate around the forums and social media sites.

From what I've been reading (I don't participate in other forums), what people mean , and I, when they say "originally intended" could be, as you said, reinstating the Shiva dungeon or the drive to Cartanica.

So expansions, but not changing what's already there.

Of course you have the obnoxious ones who rudely want more of everything, even if it doesn't fit the main scenario.

Shiva, Cartanica and even Altissia demands (as in Noctis and co. Are able to venture into the rest of the other areas on the Altissia map) are reasonable in that no major narrative changes need to be made, only added.
Cartanica is the city, not the dungeon. ;) Adding that actually would require narrative changes. But, I agree, these three things could be worked into the game as it presently exists without causing problems. Heck, we might actually be getting more of Altissia depending on how they implement the festival -- I could see them using a new area for that or offering the gondola to the church where Luna gave her speech if they need big open spaces.

The one scenario that would be difficult to implement is making Tenebrae explorable.

I've seen quite a lot of demand for it, and frankly I'm not sure how the dev team can go about adding it in without changing the scenario that's already in the game.

Tenebrae burns when we arrive. The only way I can see it being added is it isn't burning when we get there, but after. So Noctis and co. Are right in the thick of the battle and witness the aftermath as it happens.

Insomnia is another one, although it's a plus not a necessity. Very difficult to add.

The only way I can see Tenebrae and Insomnia being added into the game without affecting the main narrative is similar to what they did with the Platinum demo.

Noctis can revisit his past memories in a dream state, and we play through the dream state to learn more.

Tenebrae could be when he was a child and was running around and playing with Luna. Or even when he was in a wheelchair.

Insomnia you can relive scenarios where you bond with the guys and learn more about them.

All in all, these additions seem quite difficult to add in, with a lot of work involved even for the reasonable scenarios.
I would love a DLC focused on Noct and Luna as kids, even if the amount of work required means it has to be a paid DLC. That seems like the best way by far to allow for exploration of Tenebrae. Then they could just add in hooks when you get there in the story so you can choose to play it in-line if you have it.

Insomnia is less important. More bonding with the guys would be nice, but it'd be easier to do that through adding tours and maybe cutscene flashbacks. =P If the co-op DLC takes place in the World of Ruin, maybe they could add an expanded Insomnia map, though. *shrugs*

He's not trying to damage control.

More like trying to engage in conversation and discuss his perspective as well as taking into account what I said.
She. ;)
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,616
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#37
we might actually be getting more of Altissia depending on how they implement the festival -- I could see them using a new area for that or offering the gondola to the church where Luna gave her speech if they need big open spaces.
One of the very reasons I am greatly looking forward to the upcoming festival DLC.

I would love a DLC focused on Noct and Luna as kids, even if the amount of work required means it has to be a paid DLC. That seems like the best way by far to allow for exploration of Tenebrae. Then they could just add in hooks when you get there in the story so you can choose to play it in-line if you have it. ;)
Good point.

The DLC could probably go more in depth since the setting isn't filled with despair, darkness, and haste like in the game when the gang arrive at Tenebrae.

I'd wager such a DLC would be filled with lore and backstory since Luna had to teach Noctis quite a bit.

I'm ok with this.

Insomnia is less important. More bonding with the guys would be nice, but it'd be easier to do that through adding tours and maybe cutscene flashbacks. =P If the co-op DLC takes place in the World of Ruin, maybe they could add an expanded Insomnia map, though. *shrugs*
I loved the tour missions. It would be great if they could add in more.

Huh I never thought about adding in more tours as a way to delve into the guys backstory until now lol.

Insomnia is less important to the main story until the very end, I agree.

The thirst and demand for it is real though lol. I'm talking "gimme a lake in the Sahara desert" kinda thirst here lol. Hence why I wrote some ideas on what the team can do if they decide to go down that route :p

I can see the WoR being a part of the co-op DLC though. It would be a great setting for it imo.

How presumptuous of me. My apologies :)
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,616
1,293
#38
Hell I would love it if Square made a full-fledge Kingslaive game about Nyx that Diamond Weapon fight would be the tits.
As fun as that would be, I think the movie was self contained enough in that it doesn't need a game based on it.

Imo the time and resources would be better spent improving the base game and the upcoming DLC.

It's a fun idea though. Perhaps they can add in diamond weapon in the base game?

I do recall them saying they're gonna add in more monsters and hunts.
 

Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,483
1,988
#39
To this day, i'll never understand how some people expected Insomnia to be fully explorable, despite main story circumstances preventing that even during the era of Versus XIII (much less Nifilheim).

Thought wanting an explorable take of it, i'm fine with.
 

Hey Everyone

Keyblade Master
Dec 30, 2016
777
165
20
Unknown, Unknown
#40
I'm assuming this is also based on the 4chan leak?

Or just improve on the base game's issue, then move on to developing FFXVI. They already have the season pass DLC expansion being made on top of the road map update that includes a long-term plan to include more playable characters.

S.E. have plenty of options moving forward, and a remake of a 2016 game with an already nice foundation to build up upon isn't one of them.
I'm thinking FFXVI might be held off for a while unlike a Versus XV, they would have to start from scratch granted I can see both happening like let's say maybe after FFVIIR part 1 or part 2 they announce a Versus XV Trilogy directed by Nomura and Kingslaive game translation(which will likely happen first), and then BD5 gets FFXVI granted I don't think a FFXVI will happen until at least FFX-3, and the end of the FFVII Remake.

From the way I see it
FFVII Remake
FFX-3
Kingslavie game?(I mean they might want to milk FFXV for all it's worth, and given the assets it's possible especially the unused stuff)
FF Versus XV Trilogy(give them a steady cash flow)
Final Fantasy Type-1
FFXVi( because they would have to start from scratch and they are likely to use Luminous Studio Pro not UE4)