Just How Much Content Should Be Added For the Game to Feel Complete?

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May 26, 2014
685
194
#61
True but I think it makes him less relatable/hard to feel something for him.
For example do you feel some emotion if this thing were to be shoot with a gun? Do you feel some emotion if this thing were to be shoot with a gun?
Well I just thought of this, but what could be cool is if he starts off as this huge monster and as you fight him he slowly reverts back to his human form like you're cleansing him of the darkness/demons or something. Then when he's fully reverted that's when he knocks out your buddies and challenges you 1-on-1 with the same abilities.
 
Likes: Storm

Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
696
802
#62
Well I just thought of this, but what could be cool is if he starts off as this huge monster and as you fight him he slowly reverts back to his human form like you're cleansing him of the darkness/demons or something. Then when he's fully reverted that's when he knocks out your buddies and challenges you 1-on-1 with the same abilities.
Apart from raising the question of why Noct would have to die to finish off an entity that he'd previously been successful at exorcising via normal weaponry, that sort of scenario still wouldn't provide the same impression as a duel between human beings. Going One Winged Angel is a pretty standard way of showing an enemy has crossed the event horizon and their life no longer "counts," regardless of whether their appearance changes back before they die.
 

BladeRunner

SOLDIER, First Class
Jun 7, 2014
940
632
Poland
#63
Which is ironic you're saying this, considering that....



....you're using the original invasion event as an argument to affirm what people wanted being different from my assertion of their want, which doesn't work here in this case. The Insomnia Invasion is a setpiece event, a hypothetical fully explorable town (which is where i'm getting at) is different, and is very much a popular wish/request. No question.

I am well aware of the desire & preference for the original invasion over what we got, that is not what i'm arguing about, however.

The issue i'm referring to is where an explorable Insomnia would fit into the basic scenario, which practically began with the party event right before the invasion, given that you have a protagonist on the run amdist an army attacking his kingdom early in the game, giving you very little room to explore anything. That implies that such a scenario possibly wasn't much an idea from the start.



Read my comments within this post. I don't think you're understanding where i'm getting at all.
My point is that I haven't seen many people wish for a fully explorable Insomnia. Just some explorable/playable parts. You're right, I don't understand your point at all.

But let's leave it at that, I'm tired of arguing.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,612
1,290
#64
This is some of the stuff I'd want to see ideally (NOT saying these are realistic):
  • More stuff between waking up 10 years later and going off to the finale. Probably something structured more like the second half of the game than the first half (ie: not fully open). You should definitely have to go find your buddies. Talcott tells you that Ignis, Gladio, and Prompto haven't stuck together for the past 10 years and that they mainly work on their own, yet there they are all together. I guess it's cause Talcott called them, but it makes more sense and would be more fun to have to reunite the gang for one final battle and would allow for more character development for your 4 guys and a bit for the minor characters as well. Heck, it would give us a chance to see all the other characters post-timeskip!
  • While I'm talking about that section of the game, I have to say I sure would've liked it if they let you walk into Insomnia over the bridge. The first Final Fantasy game starts with crossing a bridge, and this one, which contains a ton of references to past FF games, should end with crossing one. Not really a big deal obviously, just something I would've enjoyed.
  • And I guess while I'm talking about the final area, I need to mention how much I wish there were more to it. The city portion is fine I guess, but I totally thought Ardyn was gonna take them to some wacked-out parallel dimension at some point, in FF tradition. But nope. Also thought that there'd be, y'know, a proper final fight against Ardyn with him transformed into a huge, grotesque monster thing, also in FF tradition. But nope.
  • More actual cutscenes since I love cutscenes and there was too much of that "people stand in place while you move the camera around" nonsense.
  • There are a bunch of other story things that could be better, but I'll just list the ones that come to mind. A proper rivalry with Ravus would be nice. That means fighting him at least once before he gets all demon-ified.
  • Would also really like to fight Aranea more than once, just cause her battle was super fun.
  • Oh yeah, there should be at least something more to Tenebrae than just seeing it burn off in the distance.
  • More backstory stuff for Ardyn and just the world in general, though that much is nearly a given. Also would've liked more flashbacks with Noctis and Luna, Luna and Ravus, Noctis and Regis.
  • I'll add more if I think of more, lol.
Anyway, I agree a lot with the op of another thread here, which I'll link to in a second, which altered certain sections of the game to flesh it out more. I also agree that Kingsglaive and Brotherhood were a mistake, even though I enjoyed them. Putting that stuff into separate media turned what could've potentially been one of the best intros to an FF game into the #1 worst intro in any FF, no contest. What that post describes reminds me of Dragon Quest V where you start off as a little kid and go on all these fun adventures and then all of a sudden things take a bad turn and the story really kicks in and just sucker punches you and incites this huge journey. People who have played it will know what I'm talking about.

stealth edit: added link
I remember reading that thread awhile back. I find it interesting that the chapters are "rearranged".

If they do end up doing something like this (as in put some chapters together so they can add in more stuff) I'd be fine with that.

One thing I do agree with is extending the intro. It ended too abruptly and was too short imo.

Something small like Noctis and co. driving away while King Regis looks on mournfully would be nice. Noctis looking around the city of Insomnia as the guys drive by its streets would be like a "farewell" without him knowing it.

I feel that this would create more motivation to save Insomnia when it falls. Players got a glimpse is a lively and bustling city full of people and when it falls, a clear image comes to mind of what needs saving.
 
May 26, 2014
685
194
#65
Apart from raising the question of why Noct would have to die to finish off an entity that he'd previously been successful at exorcising via normal weaponry,
Well that's pretty much what happens in the game... You have to kill him with your regular weapons before you can "purge" him or whatever after you die yourself.

that sort of scenario still wouldn't provide the same impression as a duel between human beings.
Then when he's fully reverted that's when he knocks out your buddies and challenges you 1-on-1 with the same abilities.

Going One Winged Angel is a pretty standard way of showing an enemy has crossed the event horizon and their life no longer "counts," regardless of whether their appearance changes back before they die.
But that's not always necessarily so? Not sure if I get what you're saying, but there are plenty of games where the villain goes monster and absolutely still matters. Besides, him using his dark powers to turn into a monster or something for a while doesn't like negate the rest of his character.

Narrative stuff aside, the main reason why adding another phase to Ardyn would be nice is that there really should be something more to the final boss battle. Fighting Ardyn on the ground and then in the air is cool, but not really that fun, and it feels like it ends far too quickly!

edit: so as not to double post
@Jubileus Well, although there's plenty I like about FF15, one of the things I like least is how mandatory Kingsglaive is. The opening section (as in the first gameplay segment where you have to go collect whatever it was to fix the car) of the game itself is the worst opening in FF history and there's also a bunch of probably-incomprehensible-if-you-haven't-watched-Kingsglaive stuff near the beginning.
 
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Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,579
3,969
26
#66
Last edited:

SonOfEtro

Keyblade Master
May 2, 2016
774
615
#67
I think it needs the three DLC episodes, the added story content, and perhaps some further expansion surrounding the World of Ruin to feel like a complete game. At the moment, while technically great, it's still got that slightly disjointed feeling so many modern games with DLC planned/pending/intended have. (sigh)
 
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Nova

Warrior of Light
Jul 14, 2015
1,467
1,967
#68
The opening section (as in the first gameplay segment where you have to go collect whatever it was to fix the car) of the game itself is the worst opening in FF history.
Nah, gonna disagree here. Thought chapter 1's opening itself was one of the better parts of the story for me.

If anything i felt chapter 0 could have used more substantial content for a prologue, it ended up too short and lack any sort of gripping presentation (this is also coming from someone who liked the Regis send off scene).

The Regis/kid Noct scene from the Dawn trailer comes to mind.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,612
1,290
#69
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-15-video-shows-huge-unused-areas-of-/1100-6446757/

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/01/09/huge-unused-areas-found-in-final-fantasy-15

the niflheim exploration video got an article on gamespot and ign, this is good.
a lot of stupid assumptions will be made by the general ppl, but at least this will gain more exposition.
I think articles like this will prompt S.E. to really consider adding it into the game out of pressure in a way.

It would be wise for it to be added in a way that makes sense of course, not adding it just for the sake of having it exist.

It's only been one month after release and yet there is still a buzz around FFXV and it's upcoming content.

Does anyone know if any other game generated this much buzz and demand? Haven't really followed any other game but this one.
 

Jubileus

Warrior of Light
Oct 7, 2016
1,612
1,290
#70
If anything i felt chapter 0 could have used more substantial content for a prologue, it ended up too short and lack any sort of gripping presentation (this is also coming from someone who liked the Regis send off scene).

The Regis/kid Noct scene from the Dawn trailer comes to mind.
Any ideas on this in addition to the Regis/kid Noctis scene?

I too, felt that it was too short.
 

Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
696
802
#73
Well that's pretty much what happens in the game... You have to kill him with your regular weapons before you can "purge" him or whatever after you die yourself.
The implications are different, though. The game has you kill Ardyn's human body before destroying his corrupted soul in the afterlife, with him retaining his humanity through his rather bittersweet death scene and being "purged" all at once afterwards through the explicit invocation of the Crystal's power.

Having Ardyn turn into a monster that would revert back to human form through combat would flip that on its head, implying that Noct can purge Ardyn of demons just by fighting him and calling into question the need to use the Crystal for that purpose in the first place.

Me: that sort of scenario still wouldn't provide the same impression as a duel between human beings.

You: Then when he's fully reverted that's when he knocks out your buddies and challenges you 1-on-1 with the same abilities.
But that's not always necessarily so? Not sure if I get what you're saying, but there are plenty of games where the villain goes monster and absolutely still matters. Besides, him using his dark powers to turn into a monster or something for a while doesn't like negate the rest of his character.
Just because the same events would still happen doesn't mean that the impression would be the same. A One Winged Angel who's crossed back over the Bishonen Line is still subject to What Measure Is A Non-Human in a way an enemy who's been human all along isn't.

Narrative stuff aside, the main reason why adding another phase to Ardyn would be nice is that there really should be something more to the final boss battle. Fighting Ardyn on the ground and then in the air is cool, but not really that fun, and it feels like it ends far too quickly!
I kind of figured that Ifrit was intended as the proper final boss fight (complete with multiple increasingly-difficult stages), with Ardyn being the less-challenging story fight that FF games tend to have afterwards. I wouldn't exactly compare him unfavorably to Yu Yevon or Orphan. =P
 

Paperchampion23

Warrior of Light
Oct 1, 2016
1,190
1,465
24
#76
This is some of the stuff I'd want to see ideally (NOT saying these are realistic):
  • More stuff between waking up 10 years later and going off to the finale. Probably something structured more like the second half of the game than the first half (ie: not fully open). You should definitely have to go find your buddies. Talcott tells you that Ignis, Gladio, and Prompto haven't stuck together for the past 10 years and that they mainly work on their own, yet there they are all together. I guess it's cause Talcott called them, but it makes more sense and would be more fun to have to reunite the gang for one final battle and would allow for more character development for your 4 guys and a bit for the minor characters as well. Heck, it would give us a chance to see all the other characters post-timeskip!
  • While I'm talking about that section of the game, I have to say I sure would've liked it if they let you walk into Insomnia over the bridge. The first Final Fantasy game starts with crossing a bridge, and this one, which contains a ton of references to past FF games, should end with crossing one. Not really a big deal obviously, just something I would've enjoyed.
  • And I guess while I'm talking about the final area, I need to mention how much I wish there were more to it. The city portion is fine I guess, but I totally thought Ardyn was gonna take them to some wacked-out parallel dimension at some point, in FF tradition. But nope. Also thought that there'd be, y'know, a proper final fight against Ardyn with him transformed into a huge, grotesque monster thing, also in FF tradition. But nope.
  • More actual cutscenes since I love cutscenes and there was too much of that "people stand in place while you move the camera around" nonsense.
  • There are a bunch of other story things that could be better, but I'll just list the ones that come to mind. A proper rivalry with Ravus would be nice. That means fighting him at least once before he gets all demon-ified.
  • Would also really like to fight Aranea more than once, just cause her battle was super fun.
  • Oh yeah, there should be at least something more to Tenebrae than just seeing it burn off in the distance.
  • More backstory stuff for Ardyn and just the world in general, though that much is nearly a given. Also would've liked more flashbacks with Noctis and Luna, Luna and Ravus, Noctis and Regis.
  • I'll add more if I think of more, lol.
Anyway, I agree a lot with the op of another thread here, which I'll link to in a second, which altered certain sections of the game to flesh it out more. I also agree that Kingsglaive and Brotherhood were a mistake, even though I enjoyed them. Putting that stuff into separate media turned what could've potentially been one of the best intros to an FF game into the #1 worst intro in any FF, no contest. What that post describes reminds me of Dragon Quest V where you start off as a little kid and go on all these fun adventures and then all of a sudden things take a bad turn and the story really kicks in and just sucker punches you and incites this huge journey. People who have played it will know what I'm talking about.

stealth edit: added link
Lol yeah. I still feel the same way as I did when I made that thread a while ago. For me the beginning still just doesn't cut it as an FF game. You give me a story about brotherhood and about the Bros being fish out of water when they leave insomnia, then you have to show me those events before. In game. A good introduction would have been perfect. While noctis didn't have to experience it, Kingsglaive largely should have happened in game. It could have been single handedly the best opening 5 hours to an RPG. Ever. Period.

While I'm definitely not hoping for everything I put in that thread to come true, I hope they take careful steps to reintroducing the game with some good concepts. The devs made that announcement not too long after the game was released, and that leads me to believe they are as frustrated as we are.
 
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Storm

Warrior of Light
Oct 26, 2013
2,579
3,969
26
#77
Lol yeah. I still feel the same way as I did when I made that thread a while ago. For me the beginning still just doesn't cut it as an FF game. You give me a story about brotherhood and about the Bros being fish out of water when they leave insomnia, then you have to show me those events before. In game. A good introduction would have been perfect. While noctis didn't have to experience it, Kingsglaive largely should have happened in game. It could have been single handedly the best opening 5 hours to an RPG. Ever. Period.

While I'm definitely not hoping for everything I put in that thread to come true, I hope they take careful steps to reintroducing the game with some good concepts. The devs made that announcement not too long after the game was released, and that leads me to believe they are as frustrated as we are.
tbh i would be just fine with the Dawn trailer as the opening

edit:

http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-xv-player-glitches-out-of-bounds-explore-1790975993

more exposition. I likes!
 

Paperchampion23

Warrior of Light
Oct 1, 2016
1,190
1,465
24
#78
tbh i would be just fine with the Dawn trailer as the opening
Man, yea, even that would have been great.

For me though, a lot FFXV's problems lie in the supporting cast, and not the unexploreable world (though that is second in priority).
What happens to Iedolas and Verstael after 1 cutscene early in the game is a joke. Ravus should have been a much bigger recurring antagonist throughout the game with multiple boss fights. Glauca should most certainly not be dead as he is the main reason for your city going to shit and your father dying. You should have encountered him several times in the game before you kill him yourself. It would have also made Nyx's sacrifice beautifully sad. Luna should have been much more prominent before her death, aka party member with important goals that cause the party to help her summon leviathan (perhaps travel Accordo by boat to activate objects as you did with Ramuh). She should have had fight against her brother with the main cast, showing that tragedy as it was meant to be shown, because I'll never understand why Ravus would just let his sister die without any sort of situation where he tries to stop her. She should have had at least one romantic scene with Noctis at that point. All of this would have made her death so much better.

There is so much more I feel about this game and if anyone hasn't already, feel free to check that thread ScienceNonfiction linked. I'll link it again: http://www.mognetcentral.com/threads/how-this-games-story-could-feel-more-completed-and-ffish.6572/

My complete views as to what would have made this top previous FF games for me, including how missing areas and the chapter structure hurt the pace of the game. But it makes me sad to read it sometimes because I know it'll never happen in that way.
 
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Ikkin

SeeD A-Class
Oct 30, 2016
696
802
#79
Noct not being able to catch up to Luna until her death was clearly designed to make the player feel cheated, not an excuse for cut content. It makes no sense to change it. Luna can be fleshed out just as well in flashbacks and scenes with Ravus and Gentiana, in any case.

As for Ravus, the game seemed to imply that he was fighting fate initially, even if we didn't see it. So clarifying his intentions might fix the "Why would he just let Luna die?" thing.