Final Fantasy VII REMAKE - General News Thread

[LeonBlade]

I think the point is though that they added stuff on top of the original game and made it easier to control, sure, but everything was absolutely recognizable, shot for shot, beat for beat. It was the same game, but like a directors' cut or an extended version - not a whole new take on the same concepts/story with a completely different take, which is what the FF7 remake is going to be.

While VII won't have shot for shot moments because the entire form of the game is being redone from scratch, the concepts and story aren't going to be completely different in any way. The script will likely be tuned up given that the translation had a load of problems and they are likely going to fix any plot holes created from the other games. That being said, it's not really going to be a completely different take on the game. The reason that the Resident Evil Remake could even be close to a shot-for-shot remake is because the game was already in full 3D while FFVII wasn't. This means you can recreate all of the areas in RE with no problem as the skeleton of all the areas exist in their original form in a way that can be enhanced. Final Fantasy VII used pre-rendered backgrounds with other elements to make it seem like a 3D space. You cannot recreate VII shot for shot this way, it's physically impossible.

So, if you ignore the graphical changes and the environmental changes... the remake should be effectively the same all around. The story additions/changes will line up to what they did in the Resident Evil Remake. You say that "everything was absolutely recognizable" as if the VII Remake wouldn't be, they're not going to rewrite FFVII entirely.

The whole thing about giving something a "Resident Evil remake treatment" means keeping everything core to the gameplay experience the same, not really the story... and in that respect, it's just a matter of opinion if players would want the old battle system. However, all of the additions in the VII series have shown that the action style battles fit that universe, look at Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus and Advent Children.

 

[APZonerunner]

While VII won't have shot for shot moments because the entire form of the game is being redone from scratch, the concepts and story aren't going to be completely different in any way. The script will likely be tuned up given that the translation had a load of problems and they are likely going to fix any plot holes created from the other games. That being said, it's not really going to be a completely different take on the game. The reason that the Resident Evil Remake could even be close to a shot-for-shot remake is because the game was already in full 3D while FFVII wasn't. This means you can recreate all of the areas in RE with no problem as the skeleton of all the areas exist in their original form in a way that can be enhanced. Final Fantasy VII used pre-rendered backgrounds with other elements to make it seem like a 3D space. You cannot recreate VII shot for shot this way, it's physically impossible.

So, if you ignore the graphical changes and the environmental changes... the remake should be effectively the same all around. The story additions/changes will line up to what they did in the Resident Evil Remake. You say that "everything was absolutely recognizable" as if the VII Remake wouldn't be, they're not going to rewrite FFVII entirely.

The whole thing about giving something a "Resident Evil remake treatment" means keeping everything core to the gameplay experience the same, not really the story... and in that respect, it's just a matter of opinion if players would want the old battle system. However, all of the additions in the VII series have shown that the action style battles fit that universe, look at Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus and Advent Children.

This isn't true, though? RE1 was largely CG backgrounds with 3D models layered on top, just the same way FF7's original version was? When they did the Gamecube version, they essentially had to recreate every background and every model from the ground up, but the key is that they recreated every shot lovingly to be identical, likewise for the gameplay and the story beats, and then merely adjusted/tweaked on top of that.

As for the story -- REmake doesn't really change anything significant. It's a bit like the changes Lucas made to Star Wars, but less offensive (or at least his earlier changes) - it changes some lines and some very minor story beats to either fix a rough translation or cover up a plot hole caused by an event in Resi 2/3, but the story itself isn't actually changed. Who knows what they'll change with FF7, but I don't imagine it'll be much further than this. I do think sections of the game may be carved away or excised in a big way for ratings reasons though.

What they made ends up as the definitive, best-aging version of RE, but you can sit them side by side and other than the quality of the visuals or the voice acting, or things like that, the two games are identical.

They've already said this is not their intention with FF7; they want to make a new game with a new angle on everything in FF7. I'm not saying that's a terrible idea, but I am saying that's very different to REmake and I can get why people say they might have preferred that approach. I admit I would've too.

As far as "action style battles fit the FF7 series", I'll say this: Dirge is a disaster, Advent Children isn't much better. Crisis Core is okay, but I do think its combat ultimately outstays its welcome in a 40 hour game. My biggest fear is that they try to replicate the look and feel of AC, as that's precisely what FF13's auto battle bonanza was trying to do, per many explanations to that effect from Kitase.

 

[Sora96]

Battle system likely being made by Yuji Abe and the other remaining XIII designers.

 

[Koozek]

[...] The reason that the Resident Evil Remake could even be close to a shot-for-shot remake is because the game was already in full 3D while FFVII wasn't. This means you can recreate all of the areas in RE with no problem as the skeleton of all the areas exist in their original form in a way that can be enhanced. Final Fantasy VII used pre-rendered backgrounds with other elements to make it seem like a 3D space. You cannot recreate VII shot for shot this way, it's physically impossible. [...]

That's wrong. FFVII works in the same way as basically every pre-rendered game and is no different to RE. You create a simplified version of the 3D map you used for the background renders and define the "walk-meshs" (the parts of the 3D map that can be walked on). Then you overlay the pre-rendered image with the new 3D map (with the same camera set-up as used for the render). Now to know when to draw a character behind or in front of specific parts of the pre-rendered background you can either overlay the pre-rendered image with 2D "layer" masks to set which pixels are "background"/"foreground". Alternatively you could use the Z-Buffer from the pre-rendered image, which FFVII does too for sorting objects and depth layers, iirc.
You can even extract those original 3D maps used with certain programs from the PC port. If you're interested in the engine's technical aspects in general, here's a very in-depth breakdown of FFVII's engine: http://q-gears.sourceforge.net/gears.pdf

SE lost the original source code of FFVII, btw, and the recent re-releases use wrapper code around the PC version's original executable. REmake was done from scratch too, btw. They didn't just use the original's 3D maps and assets.
SE could have chosen to give FFVIIR the REmake treatment if they wanted to. But it actually wouldn't be that much less work than a full 3D remake, as they'd have to model all the scenes fully and in even higher quality, anyway. Some think "Yeah, but with fixed camera perspectives you don't have to texture and polish the parts that aren't visible!", but that really doesn't make much of a difference in the end and it would be more flexible to model everything fully in case you would like to change the cameras later on, anyway. If you modelled half of a barrel or a rock, really, you might as well finish the rest, too.
All in all a FFVIIREmake would basically be as much work as doing a full 3D remake like SE's doing right now.

 

[LeonBlade]

That's wrong. FFVII works in the same way as basically every pre-rendered game and is no different to RE.

Resident Evil shows multiple areas in several camera angles giving multiple perspectives on the same room. I said that RE has a skeleton here, FFVII's areas are only ever seen from one angle while RE has actual environments that can be recreated in 3D based on these. A lot of the areas that are zoomed way back you could never accurately recreate any of those areas perfectly. That's what I was getting at.

Thanks for the link by the way, I'll take a look in detail later.

 

[Koozek]

Resident Evil shows multiple areas in several camera angles giving multiple perspectives on the same room. I said that RE has a skeleton here, FFVII's areas are only ever seen from one angle while RE has actual environments that can be recreated in 3D based on these. A lot of the areas that are zoomed way back you could never accurately recreate any of those areas perfectly. That's what I was getting at.

Thanks for the link by the way, I'll take a look in detail later.

Both have underlying 3D maps. FFVII just has less camera switches in scenes and more zoomed out views, yes. You could still recreate FFVII's 3D maps, it doesn't matter how zoomed out it is (you can do as many new camera angles as you wish when you have recreated the 3D maps). Btw, the Shinra Mansion has a few camera switches in the basement, the same way RE does (the whole basement is one continuous map with triggers at certain places that change the camera matching the new pre-rendered image's camera view).

 

[LeonBlade]

Both have underlying 3D maps. FFVII just has less camera switches in scenes and more zoomed out views, yes. You could still recreate FFVII's 3D maps, it doesn't matter how zoomed out it is (you can do as many new camera angles as you wish when you have recreated the 3D maps). Btw, the Shinra Mansion has a few camera switches in the basement, the same way RE does (the whole basement is one continuous map with triggers at certain places that change the camera matching the new pre-rendered image's camera view).

I've never seen the 3D maps from any of these objects before, it would be interesting to see them if I'm understanding you correctly. The art style for VII doesn't really make it seem like these areas are even 3D, a lot of them look like a painting, it's pretty incredible.

 

[Koozek]

It looks like this:

This basically is the "skeleton" of the room, which is a simplified version of the 3D scene you used for the pre-rendered image.
Source: Final Fantasy VII scene reconstruction using Blender

Here's one of FFVIII's walkmeshs:

Source: Deling beta Final Fantasy VIII field archive editor

Now to determine when a character is standing behind a part of the pre-rendered image they created masks like this (red means "can cover up character"):

PLUS

EQUALS

Source: Unused Fields of FFVII

 

[LeonBlade]

@Koozek really cool, thanks!

 

[Lulcielid]

Nobuo Uematsu will not work in FFVIIRemake music.
http://www.novacrystallis.com/2015/11/nobuo-uematsu-wont-be-working-on-the-final-fantasy-vii-remake/
Seens to be by his own will.

 

[yeah_93]

I read the news earlier. I've been a bit busy today so I didn't post it.

While I'm a bit sad about Uematsu's lack of involvement, I feel someone like Takeharu Ishimoto could easily adapt his songs in the remake. He's competent.

 

[Death Penalty]

I agree with the above. Uematsu is a fantastic composer, there's just no doubt, but his strength has always been his powerful melodies which he's thankfully already given us. From here, one of Square's other phenomenal composers should be able to rearrange the classic tracks and do them real justice. Fulfilled Desire from Crisis Core is all I need to have faith that it can be done.

 

[Tornak]

Sorry for bumping this thread without news, but I didn't want to go offtopic on other threads: do you guys think we'll see something FFVIIR-related this week? Namely, PSX, TGA would be weird.

They said that more info would be released in Winter (it doesn't technically starts until the 21th...), but I had assumed it meant December rather than January or February. Jump Festa 2016 could be the place, too (although I think PSX fits more because of VII's relationship with Sony and the magnitude of that event, as opposed to a Japanese-only one).

Or maybe they won't show anything at all and we'll retake the cycle of vague promises

 

[Koozek]

Sorry for bumping this thread without news, but I didn't want to go offtopic on other threads: do you guys think we'll see something FFVIIR-related this week? Namely, PSX, TGA would be weird.

They said that more info would be released in Winter (it doesn't technically starts until the 21th...), but I had assumed it meant December rather than January or February. Jump Festa 2016 could be the place, too (although I think PSX fits more because of VII's relationship with Sony and the magnitude of that event, as opposed to a Japanese-only one).

Or maybe they won't show anything at all and we'll retake the cycle of vague promises

I'm pretty sure it's either going to be TGA or, more likely, PSX.

TGA uploaded a video of Afro Jack hyping up his official remix of classic FF music from Uematsu for the TGA show and also enthusiastically talking about his love for FFVII with the FFVIIR E3 trailer footage playing in the background. So maybe there's a chance for a reveal there, as FFXV doesn't have any nominations to do promo for.

PSX is the most likely one because of obvious reasons. I'm hoping for another classic Hashimoto troll, showing the FFVII PS4 port trailer first before closing with FFVIIR

Jump Festa is very unlikely, at least for the main reveal of new footage. Maybe it'll have some smaller new infos, concept art etc. FFXV is pretty much confirmed to be there, which is why I doubt SE would also show FFVIIR for the first time again there, as it obviously would overshadow any of FFXV's news and infos from the ATR (they confirmed one last ATR for this year at a Japanese event "not too far from now”, where they want to talk about the villain for the first time).

 

[Lulcielid]

Revealing the new name was the only thing Nomura promised before ending 2015.

 

[Azuardo]

Really itching for some footage of it in action. Hoping we'll get something at PSX, even if it's small.

 

[Koozek]

Revealing the new name was the only thing Nomura promised before ending 2015.

They're still deciding, but the name at least:

“Sometime during the winter, we’re planning to have a follow-up report. I believe we’re going to announce the official title, at least, but as for other details, we’re in the process of determining what we’re going to put out.”

 

[Tornak]

Well, hopefully, even if Nomura himself acknowledges how soon they (again...) revealed the title, they have something interesting to show. At the very least give an interview or two, show concept art...

I'm not really that confident tbh, although I had to bet, I'd say PSX, as it's the right place for something like this. The game, I think, started development in early 2014, so I guess they COULD have some meaty thing to show, at least a concept video that shows what they're sure the game is gonna have.

They're still deciding, but the name at least:

“Sometime during the winter, we’re planning to have a follow-up report. I believe we’re going to announce the official title, at least, but as for other details, we’re in the process of determining what we’re going to put out.”

Final Fantasy VII: Reunion? Remake (I don't think so)? Just FFVII? Let's see what name they choose. I'm hañf expecting a silly Latin subtitle

 

[Koozek]

Well, hopefully, even if Nomura himself acknowledges how soon they (again...) revealed the title, they have something interesting to show. At the very least give an interview or two, show concept art...

I'm not really that confident tbh, although I had to bet, I'd say PSX, as it's the right place for something like this. The game, I think, started development in early 2014, so I guess they COULD have some meaty thing to show, at least a concept video that shows what they're sure the game is gonna have.


Final Fantasy VII: Reunion? Remake (I don't think so)? Just FFVII? Let's see what name they choose. I'm hañf expecting a silly Latin subtitle

I really feel it's going to be FFVII: Reunion^^

 

[Rezon]

I really feel it's going to be FFVII: Reunion^^

Same.